Would You?...

[Mongo3451]

https://www.totalprosports.com/2020/02/12/rumor-bears-thinking-of-trading-khalil-mack-to-washington-redskins-for-2-overall-draft-pick/

I think I would...

[Stinger226]

No way , if we look at last year , it gives you pause but Hall of famers do not grow on trees.  2018 happened because he came here. This year will be different for many reasons.  If he goes to Washington and has 18 sacks, lots of special plays then what will you think? We need to make it work. 

[Bill]

How does that make Mack respond if true.  Egos are a tough thing to deal with at a pro level.

And who would they pick with it.  Another edge rusher.  Or Tua.  Both a far greater risk then the known.  Why?

[Bill]

Unless they know there is a lingering injure, as his ankle?

[AZ54]

27 minutes ago, Bill said:

Unless they know there is a lingering injure, as his ankle?

Had that thought for much of last year because in 2018 he used to occasionally pancake OTs.  That just disappeared from his game. I realize teams did a lot to isolate him away from the action but his effort didn't appear to be the same.  

[AZ54]

2 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

No way , if we look at last year , it gives you pause but Hall of famers do not grow on trees.  2018 happened because he came here. This year will be different for many reasons.  If he goes to Washington and has 18 sacks, lots of special plays then what will you think? We need to make it work. 

I think I'm with you here.  Hall of Fame type players change the game and improve those around them.  Mack does that he just didn't have enough help last year once Hicks was out.  OTOH the #2 pick gets you one of Burrow or Chase Young and (I'm guessing) about $20mil in cap space.   That cap space could go even higher depending how the contract is structured. 

Assuming we are not going to win through Trubisky then we must do so with the Defense.  We could then go out and sign Ngakoue or Chris Jones.   

So the trade question is would I prefer Floyd/Nichols/Hicks/Mack     or one of: 

Floyd/Jones/Hicks/Young  

Young/Nichols/Hicks/Ngakoue 

After all the money the Bears spent on Mack I'd be shocked if ownership would let Pace shell out another huge guarantee.  

I have to say I'd make the trade and take the Chris Jones/Akiem Hicks interior with Chase Young on the outside.  Inside pressure is brutal on passing and running plays.  It negates the worry about Floyd's lack of sacks (he can get pressures) or it also forces QBs into Floyd's direction where he'll be in position to contain the play.  You have Young on the other edge too.  

The gamble is that all this has to happen before FA and you don't know if you can sign any of the top FAs.  This opens some wild opportunities but I prefer the bird in the hand and would stick with Mack.    

[Stinger226]

First of all explain to me why Washington would take Mack over  Chase Young being they are  not ready to be  a SB contender ? Draft is afer free agency and would not work out.

[adam]

That is totally fake. The Bears would have a bigger gap hit by trading him than just keeping him. He is untradeable thru 2021 due to dead cap.

[BearFan PHX]

24 minutes ago, adam said:

That is totally fake. The Bears would have a bigger gap hit by trading him than just keeping him. He is untradeable thru 2021 due to dead cap.

completely.

Leno you could cut, Mack? no way.

[AZ54]

50 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

First of all explain to me why Washington would take Mack over  Chase Young being they are  not ready to be  a SB contender ? Draft is afer free agency and would not work out.

Daniel Snyder.  

[Stinger226]

That's a good point but Rivera is supposed to get total control given to him.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

3 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

That's a good point but Rivera is supposed to get total control given to him.

First of all...ha!  That’s like saying Jerry Jones would be willing to let whomever coaches in Dallas take full control.   We all know that ain’t ever happening.

Second; this Dan Sileo character is spinning all kinds of stories as if they’re ‘hot takes’.  He has another that alleges the Bears are in talks with Cincinnati to acquire their 1st round pick so the Bears can get Burrow.  Similar strategy involved with trading Mack.  But it appears Sileo is just throwing all kinds of ideas around without much thought into it.

[BearFan PHX]

to reiterate what Adam said, there is no way we can afford to trade Mack, the cap hit would be devastating.

It's really irresponsible of these reporters to even float the theory. It'd be like saying we are bringing Walter Payton out of retirement. Fun idea, but with only a moment's research, provably impossible.

 

[Mongo3451]

I love all of you guys contract and cap knowledge.  What is the hit?  I always thought of you traded a player that the annual cap hit transferred.  Not my strong suit...

[BearFan PHX]

So in oversimplified terms, when you sign a player, you pay them two different ways.

You agree on a yearly salary, which the player only gets if they arent cut. If you trade that player, the new team pays the agreed yearly salary, because what they traded for was the rights to the players contract. So if you cut or trade a player, the salaries and possible bonuses that could be earned all all gone from your cap.

But if that was it, the players would be in a bind. They'd be subject to being cut any year. And teams compete for these players, so a good player is able to demand guaranteed money, also called a signing bonus.

This is money the player gets when they sign the deal, and they get to keep no matter what (with very few exceptions not worth discussing here). If they play poorly or get injured, they still keep that money.

Most players, especially the good ones are getting up to half up front in guaranteed money. For example, Mack's deal is a 6 year deal worth $141,000,000. Of that $141 Mil, $60MIl was guaranteed at signing.

So calculating the cap hit of the yearly salary is easy. Whatever it is, that's what it is for that year.

But if the team had to declare the entire signing bonus against the cap the year they gave the player the money, then they'd have to cut half their roster to be able to sign a guy like Mack. The entire 2019 salary cap was 181 Million, so youd need to spend $60Mil of that PLUS the other 20 Mil+ salary = $80 Mil off your $181 Mil cap in one year! Impossible!

So the rule is, you give the player the upfront money in a lump sum check at signing, but you can prorate it across the years of the contract for the cap. So you'd pay $10 Mil of it each year across the 6 years. Cool.

But what happens if you trade or cut the player? Then you have to pay the entire thing right then that year. In this way, players with large upfront money are kind of protected against being cut or traded for at least a few years, because teams cant take the cap hit to move them. Its kind of like how a kitchen contractor hasd all the leverage whn you give them the upfront portion of the contract before they start work. They have your money, but you have no kitchen. But then at the end, it's almost done and youre sitting on the final payment, and now you have all the leverage to make them finish the punch list.

So players with big upfront contracts cant really be cut early in their deals, but then it gets easier to cut them, and the last year is basically a team option. This is why players often have huge salaries in the last year of their deal so they can go on TV and say they got a bigger contract than the last guy, when in truth, the team doesnt have to really honor it, and can renegotiate with them then or cut or trade them.

This is why we cant trade Mack for at least a couple more years.

There is another wrinkle that doesnt apply to Mack (yet) but does to Leno.

Leno is in the second to last year of his deal. If we keep him, we will owe him $10,294,000 and that will cost our cap the same amount. If we cut him, we will have to pay back the remaining guaranteed money against the cap immediately, and that is $7,376,000 which is a lot of cap room to waste on a player who isnt on your team. Or put another way, you GOTTA pay the $7.3 Mil either way, and it costs you another $3Mil to keep him. So cutting him saves $3Mil more against the cap. But either way you're paying $7Mil.

BUT

The cap year is based on June 1st. If you cut him after June 1st, then it's like you cut him after the 2020 season was over, so you pay $2Mil against this years cap, and $5Mil against next years. THAT is doable, and opens up about $5 Mil for a free agent replacement.

Mack is still too early in his deal for a June 1st designation, and his deal is so huge anyway, that you could realistically only trade him in the last year or two of his deal. Not until 2023.

[AZ54]

12 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

So in oversimplified terms, when you sign a player, you pay them two different ways.

You agree on a yearly salary, which the player only gets if they arent cut. If you trade that player, the new team pays the agreed yearly salary, because what they traded for was the rights to the players contract. So if you cut or trade a player, the salaries and possible bonuses that could be earned all all gone from your cap.

But if that was it, the players would be in a bind. They'd be subject to being cut any year. And teams compete for these players, so a good player is able to demand guaranteed money, also called a signing bonus.

This is money the player gets when they sign the deal, and they get to keep no matter what (with very few exceptions not worth discussing here). If they play poorly or get injured, they still keep that money.

Most players, especially the good ones are getting up to half up front in guaranteed money. For example, Mack's deal is a 6 year deal worth $141,000,000. Of that $141 Mil, $60MIl was guaranteed at signing.

So calculating the cap hit of the yearly salary is easy. Whatever it is, that's what it is for that year.

But if the team had to declare the entire signing bonus against the cap the year they gave the player the money, then they'd have to cut half their roster to be able to sign a guy like Mack. The entire 2019 salary cap was 181 Million, so youd need to spend $60Mil of that PLUS the other 20 Mil+ salary = $80 Mil off your $181 Mil cap in one year! Impossible!

So the rule is, you give the player the upfront money in a lump sum check at signing, but you can prorate it across the years of the contract for the cap. So you'd pay $10 Mil of it each year across the 6 years. Cool.

But what happens if you trade or cut the player? Then you have to pay the entire thing right then that year. In this way, players with large upfront money are kind of protected against being cut or traded for at least a few years, because teams cant take the cap hit to move them. Its kind of like how a kitchen contractor hasd all the leverage whn you give them the upfront portion of the contract before they start work. They have your money, but you have no kitchen. But then at the end, it's almost done and youre sitting on the final payment, and now you have all the leverage to make them finish the punch list.

So players with big upfront contracts cant really be cut early in their deals, but then it gets easier to cut them, and the last year is basically a team option. This is why players often have huge salaries in the last year of their deal so they can go on TV and say they got a bigger contract than the last guy, when in truth, the team doesnt have to really honor it, and can renegotiate with them then or cut or trade them.

This is why we cant trade Mack for at least a couple more years.

There is another wrinkle that doesnt apply to Mack (yet) but does to Leno.

Leno is in the second to last year of his deal. If we keep him, we will owe him $10,294,000 and that will cost our cap the same amount. If we cut him, we will have to pay back the remaining guaranteed money against the cap immediately, and that is $7,376,000 which is a lot of cap room to waste on a player who isnt on your team. Or put another way, you GOTTA pay the $7.3 Mil either way, and it costs you another $3Mil to keep him. So cutting him saves $3Mil more against the cap. But either way you're paying $7Mil.

BUT

The cap year is based on June 1st. If you cut him after June 1st, then it's like you cut him after the 2020 season was over, so you pay $2Mil against this years cap, and $5Mil against next years. THAT is doable, and opens up about $5 Mil for a free agent replacement.

Mack is still too early in his deal for a June 1st designation, and his deal is so huge anyway, that you could realistically only trade him in the last year or two of his deal. Not until 2023.

Your proposal on Leno is very realistic.  It also means we can keep him and cut him during training camp.  

[BearFan PHX]

7 hours ago, AZ54 said:

Your proposal on Leno is very realistic.  It also means we can keep him and cut him during training camp.  

yup, and the rule is you can even cut him today and still designate him a June 1st cut.

But yeah, they can bring him back until they have his replacement secured.