Trey Burton Released

[dawhizz]

Sounds like it will be a post-June 1 cut, saving the Bears around $2.8 million this year. 

[Connorbear]

29 minutes ago, dawhizz said:

Sounds like it will be a post-June 1 cut, saving the Bears around $2.8 million this year. 

I have no issues with this. 

Peace

 

[adam]

I like that Pace is being decisive and not holding onto guys; he let Floyd walk, traded Howard, let Amos go, etc. This makes the Graham signing look better now.

I assume Shaheen is next. Any savings is good at this point for guys that won't contribute much.

This also shows how far Burton has fallen out of favor with the team.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

10 minutes ago, adam said:

 

I like that Pace is being decisive and not holding onto guys; he let Floyd walk, traded Howard, let Amos go, etc. This makes the Graham signing look better now.

 

In this particular instance I’d agree but the devil’s advocate in me suggests the Howard and Amos releases were not as beneficial. As we stand two seasons removed from his leaving, we’re still looking for a replacement to Amos. 
 

And the argument can be made that Howard wasn’t a ‘fit to Nagy’s offense’ but have we actually identified what that offense is? One that supports 40 passes to 10 runs? Sure Howard doesn’t fit that type of offense.  Hell Trubisky may not even fit the offense, yet here he is.  I think a ‘Howard like’ player is still needed to work the interior running.  
 

[adam]

4 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

In this particular instance I’d agree but the devil’s advocate in me suggests the Howard and Amos releases were not as beneficial. As we stand two seasons removed from his leaving, we’re still looking for a replacement to Amos. 
 

And the argument can be made that Howard wasn’t a ‘fit to Nagy’s offense’ but have we actually identified what that offense is? One that supports 40 passes to 10 runs? Sure Howard doesn’t fit that type of offense.  Hell Trubisky may not even fit the offense, yet here he is.  I think a ‘Howard like’ player is still needed to work the interior running.  
 

There was no way to pay Amos and pay EJack, so I believe they chose one and not the other. Howard is now on his 3rd team in 3 years, so most of the time that is a telling situation for a RB.

Overall though, I wanted Floyd, Burton, and Leno gone. 2 out of 3 ain't bad for an offseason. Quinn is a huge upgrade over Floyd, Graham is an upgrade over the entire TE group, so all we have left is Leno/Massie to deal with. 

[BearFan PHX]

On February 16th, I posted a long thread about where all the mathematically possible cap savings were, and how likely we were to cut those players.
 

The names on my list were:

FLOYD
AMUKAMARAH
GABRIEL
LENO
PATTERSON
SHAHEEN
BURTON
BRAUNECKER
COHEN
ROBINSON

with caveats about Robinson (that we would extend him) and possibly keep Patterson (that he is very valuable if Nagy uses him, but also has trade value), and possibly Cohen (I do think he is trade bait).

Of course my anti love affair with Leno is well known, and as this offseason has gone on, and we havent really replaced him, but we did sign a possible today, and one of the 2nd rounders is likely to go to OT as well. Time will tell. Cutting him would still free up $3 Million, or more if you take a June 1st designation...

At any rate, since then a lot of what I spoke about has happened, and there is still time for the rest. People disagreed at the time on a number of these players, but I think Pace showed that he is willing to make changes when he blew up our WR room a couple of years ago, so I am not as surprised.

I have more faith in Pace than I do in Nagy right now. At least (as Adam says above) Pace is willing to change when he sees something isn't working. Nagy has this year to prove me wrong of course, and naturally I do hope he does.

[BearFan PHX]

1 minute ago, adam said:

I wanted Floyd, Burton, and Leno gone. 2 out of 3 ain't bad for an offseason. Quinn is a huge upgrade over Floyd, Graham is an upgrade over the entire TE group, so all we have left is Leno/Massie to deal with. 

yup, Im with you all the way on this.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

17 minutes ago, adam said:

There was no way to pay Amos and pay EJack, so I believe they chose one and not the other. Howard is now on his 3rd team in 3 years, so most of the time that is a telling situation for a RB.

Overall though, I wanted Floyd, Burton, and Leno gone. 2 out of 3 ain't bad for an offseason. Quinn is a huge upgrade over Floyd, Graham is an upgrade over the entire TE group, so all we have left is Leno/Massie to deal with. 

If that’s true (bolded) then yes it makes sense.  But simply letting him go wouldn’t have been prudent.  As far as Howard and his being on his third team in three years; is it better to be on your third team in four years like Graham?  Who appears to now be our starting TE.  
 

The rest of the releases you talk about make sense and I agree with, which is the majority of your original list.  Maybe Pace is getting better with time? Still don’t know...

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

On February 16th, I posted a long thread about where all the mathematically possible cap savings were, and how likely we were to cut those players.
 

The names on my list were:

FLOYD
AMUKAMARAH
GABRIEL
LENO
PATTERSON
SHAHEEN
BURTON
BRAUNECKER
COHEN
ROBINSON

with caveats about Robinson (that we would extend him) and possibly keep Patterson (that he is very valuable if Nagy uses him, but also has trade value), and possibly Cohen (I do think he is trade bait).

Of course my anti love affair with Leno is well known, and as this offseason has gone on, and we havent really replaced him, but we did sign a possible today, and one of the 2nd rounders is likely to go to OT as well. Time will tell. Cutting him would still free up $3 Million, or more if you take a June 1st designation...

At any rate, since then a lot of what I spoke about has happened, and there is still time for the rest. People disagreed at the time on a number of these players, but I think Pace showed that he is willing to make changes when he blew up our WR room a couple of years ago, so I am not as surprised.

I have more faith in Pace than I do in Nagy right now. At least (as Adam says above) Pace is willing to change when he sees something isn't working. Nagy has this year to prove me wrong of course, and naturally I do hope he does.
 

So far I only  see that you had 4 right but I do think Shaheen is gone and probably Baurnecker.  I think with Burton being cut we are in play to draft a TE.  

Floyd was a bust as a pass rusher but he did have some value on the team. It was his salary that was the main problem.  Had he been a second or 3rd round pick with a 7 mil salary on his 5th year option, he may still be here. 

[AZ54]

The question with Burton was always going to be his medicals.  At the beginning of the offseason the Bears said they were more or less cautiously optimistic (paraphrasing of course).  I assume he's not recovering well and we're moving on exactly as many anticipated.  The real question is who takes his place in a weak draft for TEs.  Or is Graham the U TE with Horsted the heir apparent?  In which case we're more likely to search for always-available blocking TE.   

[adam]

10 hours ago, AZ54 said:

The question with Burton was always going to be his medicals.  At the beginning of the offseason the Bears said they were more or less cautiously optimistic (paraphrasing of course).  I assume he's not recovering well and we're moving on exactly as many anticipated.  The real question is who takes his place in a weak draft for TEs.  Or is Graham the U TE with Horsted the heir apparent?  In which case we're more likely to search for always-available blocking TE.   

I think the team will be fine with a mix of Graham, Harris, Horsted, and Holtz. They all have their own strengths which Nagy can leverage in the game plan. So with the class being so weak, I think the team doesn't even sniff a TE unless someone drops. I don't see them using any picks in the first 5 rounds on one.

[Stinger226]

It's strange that last year Dax Raymond was getting accolades for being a 4- 5th round pick value and became our property as a UDFA.  He went to the practice squad and we never heard from him again.  I read he needed to gain strength and was slow at picking up the offense.  I would think this year he maybe get noticed more to at least have a chance of  making the roster. 

[BearFan PHX]

14 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

So far I only  see that you had 4 right but I do think Shaheen is gone and probably Baurnecker.  I think with Burton being cut we are in play to draft a TE.  

Floyd was a bust as a pass rusher but he did have some value on the team. It was his salary that was the main problem.  Had he been a second or 3rd round pick with a 7 mil salary on his 5th year option, he may still be here. 

In that thread you told me Burton and Floyd wouldnt be let go. I've won that much of the argument already.

Also, if you read the thread, I didnt say every name on that list would be cut, I just weighed the options.

Of the four I said were sure to be cut, only Leno remains.

[Stinger226]

We are all just giving our opinions here , I didn't know we were competing on what we got right and wrong. I did think they would keep Floyd because they would do a new contract to make his price cheaper.  I also said that if they had to pay him 13 mil he was not worth keeping.  I also said if Burton was healthy they would keep him . I don't know if he's healthy or not.  If he doesn't pass a physical when he goes to a new team then maybe he's not healthy.  So I guess you WON those arguments.  The difference between you and me  is I'm not on here trying to tell everyone that ( I was right about most stuff I predicted) . I just brought up that most to you was 4 of 10 right.  Like you said there is time for all your predictions to come to. You still have to wait on 

Leno

Patterson 

Robinson 

Shaheen 

Cohen 

Braunnecker 

So if it matters I think Shaheen and Braunnecker are probably gone but not today. So that means you would have 6 of 10 right and then you can make sure to tell everyone how smart you are.

[Stinger226]

We have 1 bet that leno starts the first game barring any injuries, we kinda have to wait until the season starts for that one. I hope your right on that one because that means we upgraded the spot.i just don't think it will happen. 

[BearFan PHX]

12 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

We are all just giving our opinions here , I didn't know we were competing on what we got right and wrong. I did think they would keep Floyd because they would do a new contract to make his price cheaper.  I also said that if they had to pay him 13 mil he was not worth keeping.  I also said if Burton was healthy they would keep him . I don't know if he's healthy or not.  If he doesn't pass a physical when he goes to a new team then maybe he's not healthy.  So I guess you WON those arguments.  The difference between you and me  is I'm not on here trying to tell everyone that ( I was right about most stuff I predicted) . I just brought up that most to you was 4 of 10 right.  Like you said there is time for all your predictions to come to. You still have to wait on 

Leno

Patterson 

Robinson 

Shaheen 

Cohen 

Braunnecker 

So if it matters I think Shaheen and Braunnecker are probably gone but not today. So that means you would have 6 of 10 right and then you can make sure to tell everyone how smart you are.

no - you have to read what I said. I didnt predict them all to be cut. I predicted Robinson not to be cut. He was on the list because cutting him mathematically clears up cap space. Not because I think its a good idea or predict it. And cutting some Tight Ends inherently means we are more likely to keep others for example.

Of the 4 I predicted, 3 have been cut.

As to it being a contest or not, I use words like "probably" and "likely" and "I think"- youre the one who told me I was crazy and spoke in absolutes. And over the last two months, it's shown that I was right, and continues to move that way.

So, time will tell, but the final scoreboard will not be opinion, we will all see what happens. I have patience, but for the next round, I will keep the authority of having won the last one.

[AZ54]

5 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

It's strange that last year Dax Raymond was getting accolades for being a 4- 5th round pick value and became our property as a UDFA.  He went to the practice squad and we never heard from him again.  I read he needed to gain strength and was slow at picking up the offense.  I would think this year he maybe get noticed more to at least have a chance of  making the roster. 

I liked him when we signed him but that is what happens when you show up to camp out of shape and not knowing the playbook.  It's the biggest job interview he'll likely ever have and he failed to prepare.  More than anything it calls into question his love of the game.  Then even though he was on the practice squad we had to go outside to find other FAs to get players on field.  We've kept him around but that feels like just part of throwing as many darts as possible at fixing the TE position.  Maybe he's focused this offseason but it's hard to be optimistic.  

[FlyfishingBear]

4 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I liked him when we signed him but that is what happens when you show up to camp out of shape and not knowing the playbook.  It's the biggest job interview he'll likely ever have and he failed to prepare.  More than anything it calls into question his love of the game.  Then even though he was on the practice squad we had to go outside to find other FAs to get players on field.  We've kept him around but that feels like just part of throwing as many darts as possible at fixing the TE position.  Maybe he's focused this offseason but it's hard to be optimistic.  

Not that I'm questioning the validity of what you're saying, just curious where you got the information that he showed up to camp out of shape and not knowing the playbook? 

Look at the subject and timing of these articles on Raymond.  He gets hurt and released,  then brought back to the PS a month later and then given a future contract 2 months after that? Why would the Bears do that if he were lazy and lost his love for the game?   That dog don't hunt. 

 

[Stinger226]

6 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

no - you have to read what I said. I didnt predict them all to be cut. I predicted Robinson not to be cut. He was on the list because cutting him mathematically clears up cap space. Not because I think its a good idea or predict it. And cutting some Tight Ends inherently means we are more likely to keep others for example.

Of the 4 I predicted, 3 have been cut.

As to it being a contest or not, I use words like "probably" and "likely" and "I think"- youre the one who told me I was crazy and spoke in absolutes. And over the last two months, it's shown that I was right, and continues to move that way.

So, time will tell, but the final scoreboard will not be opinion, we will all see what happens. I have patience, but for the next round, I will keep the authority of having won the last one.

Your back to this competition thing again  . 

Everyone gets some things right and something's wrong when they predict moves. I just don't keep track of everyone's wins or loses, apparently that's important to you. All of this started with making 1 bet and that's fine , some things I agree with you and when I don't, I give my opinions.  I'm not really interested in making every opinion a competition because sometimes I agree with you and sometimes I don't.  It's just having a conversation. 

For example  : I see a list of people you think will be cut ( Robinson) and  then you go to explain, you said you didn't think he would be cut. Sometimes it's just confusing. I don't understand why you put him on the list?

[BearFan PHX]

OK. I thought you were smarter. It was my mistake. Carry on - I wont be offended or care much from here on out - if you want to play stupid, then I believe you.

[adam]

Floyd, Prince, and Gabriel were all logical moves. Burton's was questionable based on the dead money, but it was clear the team felt it was better without him. Outside of the Burton move, not much else has happened that was unexpected. We will see what happens on draft day, that may be when they move a few other guys one way or another.

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, adam said:

Floyd, Prince, and Gabriel were all logical moves. Burton's was questionable based on the dead money, but it was clear the team felt it was better without him. Outside of the Burton move, not much else has happened that was unexpected. We will see what happens on draft day, that may be when they move a few other guys one way or another.

I totally agree, but we've both been seeing this the same way since January.

[AZ54]

Burton cut with failed physical designation. 

https://twitter.com/AaronWilson_NFL/status/1252346882333872136?s=20

[Stinger226]

I never saw that, if he's not healthy, no use keeping him , 3 mil is probably the rookie money we have to pay. 

[BearFan2000]

On 4/17/2020 at 6:54 PM, adam said:

Graham is an upgrade over the entire TE group

And sadly that tells you all you need to know about our TE situation... sigh