jason Posted May 23, 2013 Report Share Posted May 23, 2013 Does he belong in the pantheon? Does he belong in the HoF? Let's make a quick comparison... Player A: 12 seasons, 179 games, 19 sacks, 7 INTs, 0 TDs, 12 Fumble Recoveries (FRs), 1488 tackles*, 2 DPOY, 10 Probowls Player B: 12** seasons, 180 games, 41.5 sacks, 22 INTs, 2 TDs, 15 FRs, 1358 tackles***, 1 DPOY, 8 Probowls Player C: 9 seasons, 119 games, ??? sacks, 22 INTs, 27 FRs, 1020 tackles****, 2 DPOY*****, 8 Probowls Which player is better? A case could be made for any of the three. They're that close. Player A is Singletary. Player B is Urlacher. Player C is Butkus. It's sort of an apples to oranges discussion considering defensive scheme, but the argument isn't about whether Urlacher is HoF worthy; that's undeniable. The real argument is whether or not he's the best MLB in Chicago Bear history. I never got to see Butkus play (other than highlight reels), but he appears to win the battle. More tackles per game than the others, the same INTs as Urlacher in three less seasons (not to mention the fact that Butkus certainly wasn't playing in the Lovie-2), and a ridiculous number of fumble recoveries shapes my opinion considerably. My opinion: Butkus > Urlacher > Singletary *Found Singletary's tackles on Wikipedia **We won't count 2009 when Urlacher played in a single game. ***There seems to be disagreement on Urlacher's tackles. NFL: 1229, Profootballreference: 1358, ESPN: 1353 ****Wikipedia again *****NEA NFL DPOY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted May 23, 2013 Report Share Posted May 23, 2013 51>50>54. HOF Yes, but not a slam dunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killakrzydav Posted May 23, 2013 Report Share Posted May 23, 2013 yup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted May 23, 2013 Report Share Posted May 23, 2013 HoF for certain. SHould be a first ballot inductee. Other than Ray Lewis, no other LB is more deserving of the nod. He'll get in... I have no argument with your assessment of the big 3. Although, I'd have liked to see Bill Geroge's stats in there too... Going on pure gut...I'd go Butkus 1, Singletary 2, and Url 3. Singletary played with a stacked deck. So I think his numbers could have been even higher had he not played with a handful of other HoF'ers... But that's only a gut feeling. I just thank my lucky stars that I had the opportunity to watch every single move Urlacher made. I didn't have that with Butkus because I was too young, and I didn't follow football as religiously when Singletary played. Only as his career winded down, did I do so. That group of 3 (and the addition of Bill George) is simply the best "generations" of MLB's in NFL history. How lucky are we to have them as Bears!? I eagerly await the next! Does he belong in the pantheon? Does he belong in the HoF? Let's make a quick comparison... Player A: 12 seasons, 179 games, 19 sacks, 7 INTs, 0 TDs, 12 Fumble Recoveries (FRs), 1488 tackles*, 2 DPOY, 10 Probowls Player B: 12** seasons, 180 games, 41.5 sacks, 22 INTs, 2 TDs, 15 FRs, 1358 tackles***, 1 DPOY, 8 Probowls Player C: 9 seasons, 119 games, ??? sacks, 22 INTs, 27 FRs, 1020 tackles****, 2 DPOY*****, 8 Probowls Which player is better? A case could be made for any of the three. They're that close. Player A is Singletary. Player B is Urlacher. Player C is Butkus. It's sort of an apples to oranges discussion considering defensive scheme, but the argument isn't about whether Urlacher is HoF worthy; that's undeniable. The real argument is whether or not he's the best MLB in Chicago Bear history. I never got to see Butkus play (other than highlight reels), but he appears to win the battle. More tackles per game than the others, the same INTs as Urlacher in three less seasons (not to mention the fact that Butkus certainly wasn't playing in the Lovie-2), and a ridiculous number of fumble recoveries shapes my opinion considerably. My opinion: Butkus > Urlacher > Singletary *Found Singletary's tackles on Wikipedia **We won't count 2009 when Urlacher played in a single game. ***There seems to be disagreement on Urlacher's tackles. NFL: 1229, Profootballreference: 1358, ESPN: 1353 ****Wikipedia again *****NEA NFL DPOY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChileBear Posted May 23, 2013 Report Share Posted May 23, 2013 Does he belong in the pantheon? Does he belong in the HoF? Let's make a quick comparison... Player A: 12 seasons, 179 games, 19 sacks, 7 INTs, 0 TDs, 12 Fumble Recoveries (FRs), 1488 tackles*, 2 DPOY, 10 Probowls Player B: 12** seasons, 180 games, 41.5 sacks, 22 INTs, 2 TDs, 15 FRs, 1358 tackles***, 1 DPOY, 8 Probowls Player C: 9 seasons, 119 games, ??? sacks, 22 INTs, 27 FRs, 1020 tackles****, 2 DPOY*****, 8 Probowls Which player is better? A case could be made for any of the three. They're that close. Player A is Singletary. Player B is Urlacher. Player C is Butkus. It's sort of an apples to oranges discussion considering defensive scheme, but the argument isn't about whether Urlacher is HoF worthy; that's undeniable. The real argument is whether or not he's the best MLB in Chicago Bear history. I never got to see Butkus play (other than highlight reels), but he appears to win the battle. More tackles per game than the others, the same INTs as Urlacher in three less seasons (not to mention the fact that Butkus certainly wasn't playing in the Lovie-2), and a ridiculous number of fumble recoveries shapes my opinion considerably. My opinion: Butkus > Urlacher > Singletary *Found Singletary's tackles on Wikipedia **We won't count 2009 when Urlacher played in a single game. ***There seems to be disagreement on Urlacher's tackles. NFL: 1229, Profootballreference: 1358, ESPN: 1353 ****Wikipedia again *****NEA NFL DPOY I grew up watching Butkus. He is IT for a middle linebacker. Total competitor, 100% every time and he hit like it was his life on the line. He bit an official's finger once when there was a pile for a fumble. To tell you the truth, and I know this is going to make some folks mad, Url always seemed lackadaisical to me. I remember on press day before his only Superbowl appearance he said something about if they didnt win it was no big deal. I just never felt he had the same passion for the game as Butkus or Singletary. Seems to be the way players are today. But Url was still one of the best, I just would put him after Butkus, Singletary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VenomSox Posted May 23, 2013 Report Share Posted May 23, 2013 http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post...acher-potential Urlacher, meanwhile, racked up 1,779 tackles, 180 starts and became one of four players since sacks became an official NFL statistic in 1982 to register 40 or more sacks and 20 or more interceptions over his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 HoF for certain. SHould be a first ballot inductee. Other than Ray Lewis, no other LB is more deserving of the nod. He'll get in... I have no argument with your assessment of the big 3. Although, I'd have liked to see Bill Geroge's stats in there too... Going on pure gut...I'd go Butkus 1, Singletary 2, and Url 3. Singletary played with a stacked deck. So I think his numbers could have been even higher had he not played with a handful of other HoF'ers... But that's only a gut feeling. I just thank my lucky stars that I had the opportunity to watch every single move Urlacher made. I didn't have that with Butkus because I was too young, and I didn't follow football as religiously when Singletary played. Only as his career winded down, did I do so. That group of 3 (and the addition of Bill George) is simply the best "generations" of MLB's in NFL history. How lucky are we to have them as Bears!? I eagerly await the next! Him being a HOFer on the first ballot is no slam dunk. I do think he make it the second time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 Him being a HOFer on the first ballot is no slam dunk. I do think he make it the second time. Really? I think it is. He was asked to do things at MLB that others had never done before in the Cover 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selection7 Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 No exaggeration. He literally transformed the position. Nowadays it's not that rare to see players with very nearly his athleticism, size, and speed at LB, but before Url it was unheard of...save for maybe a few workout warriors types who were only on the roster for their measurables but nevertheless couldn't play ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selection7 Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 Also, let me say that, although I'm a little ashamed to say it... I know it's just stats but I didnt' realize Butkus was that good (and actually Samauri Mike's stats underwhelmed me a little more than I would have guessed). ...You know, because legend being what it often is, and especially how most old-timers' stats don't age well when making comparisons with modern times. I figured he was mostly just really mean, while also being really good, but even that probably undersells him. It's unfortunate, these later years being what they were...Brian was still very good, but it was a far cry from the first half of his career when he was so dominant. I would have said that over time, Url's trajectory went from clearly being the best LB in Bears history (on a team known for their LBs) to just being up there with the greats, which is what the stats seems to suggest. Either way, considering the freshness of his retirement, we should really be discussing what he's already done and save HoF talk for the many future years we're now going to have without him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flea Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 Really? I think it is. He was asked to do things at MLB that others had never done before in the Cover 2. But you have to look at what other first timers will be on that ballot & the backlog. He will be on with Ray Lewis I don't see the HOF putting both in & Lewis IS a slamdunk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 But you have to look at what other first timers will be on that ballot & the backlog. He will be on with Ray Lewis I don't see the HOF putting both in & Lewis IS a slamdunk Ray Lewis played in a 3-4, and should be in jail. Between the double homicide and the fake charities, not really a model citizen. Just like the O.J. trial, he got lucky: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2...r-2000/1566198/ Also, he played the few last years just to rack up some more stats. He was really a non-factor the last few years. The HoF takes everything into account. Ray Lewis may be a slam dunk on the field but some may not vote for him due to his off field issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 We will agree to disagree... Him and Ray Lewis just may well go in together. That would be a fine story for the NFL. Him being a HOFer on the first ballot is no slam dunk. I do think he make it the second time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 Antlers anyone? Ray Lewis played in a 3-4, and should be in jail. Between the double homicide and the fake charities, not really a model citizen. Just like the O.J. trial, he got lucky: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2...r-2000/1566198/ Also, he played the few last years just to rack up some more stats. He was really a non-factor the last few years. The HoF takes everything into account. Ray Lewis may be a slam dunk on the field but some may not vote for him due to his off field issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted May 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post...acher-potential Urlacher, meanwhile, racked up 1,779 tackles, 180 starts and became one of four players since sacks became an official NFL statistic in 1982 to register 40 or more sacks and 20 or more interceptions over his career. Michael Wright, despite working for ESPN, obviously didn't look at Urlacher's stats. Even the ESPN link within his own article to Urlacher's player page does not produce 1779 tackles. ESPN has him at 1353 total tackles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 If guys like Rickey Jackson, Andre Tippett, and Harry Carson are in the HoF, Urlacher is a shoe in. He was much more dominant of a player than all of those guys. Comparing his DPOY, DROY, All-Pro, and Pro Bowls, he would be a top 50 player (at any position) of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daventry Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 Definitely a HOFer, not sure about first time but definitely the second if not the first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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