No Love from the "Experts", Preseason Power Rankings Options

[MadLithuanian]

I preferred our perfect record of 1.0000 in SB's. You can keep 2006. It's a failure to me. It was a fun run, and up until we lost all hope, it was wonderful. But from that point on, it was all for nothing. So to speak... As I do mention, we can't predict such thing, so I would never ever ever not give ourselves the opportunity to win. But if I knew I had to sit and watch us lose, I'm not sure I'd be for that.

It was an accomplishment for the Minny teams, the Bills, etc...and as much as I sit and can tell you how wonderful and lovely it must feel for those guys to tackle that tough goal of just gtting there and playing hard, my gut tell me BS! You don't win, and it's just the most vicious loss one could ever endure.

Sure all the guys will say they were glad to go...but I don't suit up, I watch as a fan, and I don't like watching us lose. In any game, especially the one one that really matters.

The question at hand was would you rather lose the NFC championship or the Super Bowl...and I still would rather lose the championship. I honestly don't believe teams learn from losing the SB. Most that do, then wallow in misery for years after. Whereas teams that lose the NFC championship tend to be in the mix for the next few years and a good chunk go on to win it.

And, the question isn't a slippery slope into losing in the regular season, not making the playoffs, etc.. It was A or B... And no, if you throw C in, I want to make the playoffs every year regardless where we lose in them. It shows a sign of being a solid team, and one would hope, the team could learn from mistakes and eventaully win the big one.

It's a personal thing. I'm approaching it from a fatalistic and logical approach. The laws of average point that SB losing teams wallow in misery for years more often that conf championship losers. Or at least would appear that way from my years of following the NFL. Or maybe the stigma of losing the SB is just too unpleasant. No one remembers who lost in the conf game, only who lost in the SB. The biggest low, is losing the SB. Because the expectation is there to win. Just my personal thoughts...

Better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all.

I just don't understand this argument. Winning the SB is the ultimate. No question. At the same time, it is one hell of an accomplishment to get there.

If you asked the players from that 2006 team if they wish they never beat NO and didn't even reach the SB (hindsight 20/20) I bet you every one of them would say as sick as they were to have lost, they would never prefer to not make it to that level at all.

The logic just doesn't hold because if you follow it, would you rather simply not even make the playoffs if you are not going to win the SB?

[Mongo3451]

I would rather loose the championship game, than win it and loose in the super Bowl, that's all I was posting. Whats so bad about that, or hard to understand. I would rather be 1-0 in Super Bowls over 1-1 or 1-45. Like we did when we lost to S.F. in 1985, and came back the next year when we were ready to win. 2nd place TO ME is like 3rd or 4th, or 32nd. Now I am not telling people to think the same, I WAS JUST POSTING SOMETHING I WAS FEELING. I want to go to the super Bowl and win, but if i had a crystal ball and knew if we won the Championship game and would loose the super bowl, I DO NOT WANT TO GO. What do the vikings and bills have over us? NOTHING, because they never won it in 8 tries.

It's just a one in a million thought is all. I want to get it, but just can't. No lost respect, though.

[nfoligno]

So if you are not going to win the SB, tank the whole season. I mean, no point in going to the playoffs if you can't win the SB, right?

Sorry, that thought just kills me. Do you think you suddenly become great? No. You often have to work your way up. You get some success, build and that success, and then win it all.

I would rather loose the championship game, than win it and loose in the super Bowl, that's all I was posting. Whats so bad about that, or hard to understand. I would rather be 1-0 in Super Bowls over 1-1 or 1-45. Like we did when we lost to S.F. in 1985, and came back the next year when we were ready to win. 2nd place TO ME is like 3rd or 4th, or 32nd. Now I am not telling people to think the same, I WAS JUST POSTING SOMETHING I WAS FEELING. I want to go to the super Bowl and win, but if i had a crystal ball and knew if we won the Championship game and would loose the super bowl, I DO NOT WANT TO GO. What do the vikings and bills have over us? NOTHING, because they never won it in 8 tries.

[nfoligno]

As you said, it is personal for you, and there is little point in arguing it. It just blows my mind to hear this.

I preferred our perfect record of 1.0000 in SB's. You can keep 2006. It's a failure to me. It was a fun run, and up until we lost all hope, it was wonderful. But from that point on, it was all for nothing. So to speak... As I do mention, we can't predict such thing, so I would never ever ever not give ourselves the opportunity to win. But if I knew I had to sit and watch us lose, I'm not sure I'd be for that.

It was an accomplishment for the Minny teams, the Bills, etc...and as much as I sit and can tell you how wonderful and lovely it must feel for those guys to tackle that tough goal of just gtting there and playing hard, my gut tell me BS! You don't win, and it's just the most vicious loss one could ever endure.

Sure all the guys will say they were glad to go...but I don't suit up, I watch as a fan, and I don't like watching us lose. In any game, especially the one one that really matters.

The question at hand was would you rather lose the NFC championship or the Super Bowl...and I still would rather lose the championship. I honestly don't believe teams learn from losing the SB. Most that do, then wallow in misery for years after. Whereas teams that lose the NFC championship tend to be in the mix for the next few years and a good chunk go on to win it.

And, the question isn't a slippery slope into losing in the regular season, not making the playoffs, etc.. It was A or B... And no, if you throw C in, I want to make the playoffs every year regardless where we lose in them. It shows a sign of being a solid team, and one would hope, the team could learn from mistakes and eventaully win the big one.

It's a personal thing. I'm approaching it from a fatalistic and logical approach. The laws of average point that SB losing teams wallow in misery for years more often that conf championship losers. Or at least would appear that way from my years of following the NFL. Or maybe the stigma of losing the SB is just too unpleasant. No one remembers who lost in the conf game, only who lost in the SB. The biggest low, is losing the SB. Because the expectation is there to win. Just my personal thoughts...

[lemonej]

My take on this whole notion of losing before you get to the SB to save some kind of humilation is opposite of those who think thats okay. I for one think that it sucks to lose the NFC Championship game which is why it felts so good to win the SB the following year. I can remember the feeling me and my cousin had after they lost and we were crushed. We had made it to the championship game with 4 different Qbs plus Payton playing QB and we had just one our first playoff game since 1963 and I was alive back then. The previous 2 playoff appearances ended in a blowout lost to Dallas and a controversial lost to Philly. If you were watching back then you can understand why some of us who have been able to watch every SB enjoy the fact that our team has been able to participate in 2 out of 40 plus contests. Why? Because by my account that constitues a rare occassion and many times you have heard players say that enjoy the moment because you never know when you will get back there again. Just ask Dan Marino.

[MadLithuanian]

As I am probably equally puzzled how some fans could feel the opposite...

I am actually enjoying the discussion, but if it's going to go in circles, then it may be best to put it to rest. I'm fairly open on this, but I've honestly not heard a compelling reason to change my mind.

As you said, it is personal for you, and there is little point in arguing it. It just blows my mind to hear this.

[MadLithuanian]

nfo, you're using the erroneous slipperly slope arguement. We're all going to die right, so why don't we all just jump off the Sears towere tomnorrow (I still call it Sears...)? One need not take a 2 prong ficticious argument to the infinite degree.

It is a very different question to now ask, would you rather A) not go to the playoffs go to the SB and lose

In that instance I would choose B. It is integral to always go to the playoffs as it instill a winning state of mind and experience is gained. But it is not ingegral to lose SB's. Usually, losing teams falter miserably for years after barring a few exceptions. It would appear, SB losers don't "learn" from their mistakes", where playoff losers, tend to. I know we appeared to in 1984, and we appeared not to in 2007.

So if you are not going to win the SB, tank the whole season. I mean, no point in going to the playoffs if you can't win the SB, right?

Sorry, that thought just kills me. Do you think you suddenly become great? No. You often have to work your way up. You get some success, build and that success, and then win it all.

[MadLithuanian]

Although I'm not 100% with you on this lemonej, I think you provided the best explantion and justification I've heard on this. Kudos!

My take on this whole notion of losing before you get to the SB to save some kind of humilation is opposite of those who think thats okay. I for one think that it sucks to lose the NFC Championship game which is why it felts so good to win the SB the following year. I can remember the feeling me and my cousin had after they lost and we were crushed. We had made it to the championship game with 4 different Qbs plus Payton playing QB and we had just one our first playoff game since 1963 and I was alive back then. The previous 2 playoff appearances ended in a blowout lost to Dallas and a controversial lost to Philly. If you were watching back then you can understand why some of us who have been able to watch every SB enjoy the fact that our team has been able to participate in 2 out of 40 plus contests. Why? Because by my account that constitues a rare occassion and many times you have heard players say that enjoy the moment because you never know when you will get back there again. Just ask Dan Marino.

[nfoligno]

I disagree the slippery slope argument here is that much of a stretch. And yes, I realize how much the slipperly slope argument can be stretched. I remember back in school when I was on the debate team, every argument (and I do mean every) would somehow lead to nuclear war. It was ridiculous, but that is how the arguments went back then. Jaywalking would lead to nuclear destruction

To me though, the logic for not reaching the SB is simply a closer peg to not making the playoffs at all. If the argument is, as I read it (less with you) that it is pretty much a SB or bust rationale, then what is the point of making the playoffs at all if you are going to get bounced early?

Look, I get your argument about the SB loser jinx. For me though, I simply feel you strive to get as far and deep as you possibly can. If you look at the history of the NFL, there are only so many teams that have won the SB, and numerous who have never even reached it that far. Sure, it hurts to lose it, but to say you were not even good enough to get there is pretty bad as well.

At the end of the day, we simply disagree, and I think we can leave it at that. If this were the offseason, we could have fun debating the issue more, but right now, I think we have better things to discuss, like the greatness of Lovie Smith

nfo, you're using the erroneous slipperly slope arguement. We're all going to die right, so why don't we all just jump off the Sears towere tomnorrow (I still call it Sears...)? One need not take a 2 prong ficticious argument to the infinite degree.

It is a very different question to now ask, would you rather A) not go to the playoffs go to the SB and lose

In that instance I would choose B. It is integral to always go to the playoffs as it instill a winning state of mind and experience is gained. But it is not ingegral to lose SB's. Usually, losing teams falter miserably for years after barring a few exceptions. It would appear, SB losers don't "learn" from their mistakes", where playoff losers, tend to. I know we appeared to in 1984, and we appeared not to in 2007.

[balta1701-A]

BTW, thanks for cleaning up the personal attacks guys. Much more enjoyable discussion followed.

[NAMEDSONPAYTON2]

I disagree the slippery slope argument here is that much of a stretch. And yes, I realize how much the slipperly slope argument can be stretched. I remember back in school when I was on the debate team, every argument (and I do mean every) would somehow lead to nuclear war. It was ridiculous, but that is how the arguments went back then. Jaywalking would lead to nuclear destruction

To me though, the logic for not reaching the SB is simply a closer peg to not making the playoffs at all. If the argument is, as I read it (less with you) that it is pretty much a SB or bust rationale, then what is the point of making the playoffs at all if you are going to get bounced early?

Look, I get your argument about the SB loser jinx. For me though, I simply feel you strive to get as far and deep as you possibly can. If you look at the history of the NFL, there are only so many teams that have won the SB, and numerous who have never even reached it that far. Sure, it hurts to lose it, but to say you were not even good enough to get there is pretty bad as well.

At the end of the day, we simply disagree, and I think we can leave it at that. If this were the offseason, we could have fun debating the issue more, but right now, I think we have better things to discuss, like the greatness of Lovie Smith

Let me ask an easy question. Would you rather bo New Orleans at 1-0 in the Super Bowl or Buffalo 0-4 in the Super Bowl? If you answered N.O. than you more than likely would rather loose the nfc Champ. game (like me) than lose the super Bowl. Now I do want to make the playoffs every year,but I never want to loose the Super Bowl. I AM JUST SAYING I WOULD RATHER LOOSE THE NFC CHAMPIONSHIP RATHER THAN GO TO THE S.B. AND LOOSE.................................

[nfoligno]

Sorry, but I do not agree that your question leads to your answer.

Yes, I would choose NO because they won a SB rather than Buffalo, because they did not. But just because a team loses in the NFC Championship, that does not mean they will win the SB, nor does a SB loss mean a team will not win one thereafter.

You use Buffalo as an example. How about Phily? 3 years in a row they went to the NFC championship, and they lost every time. Then they won, and lost the SB.

Those championship losses sure didn't seem to help Phily.

I guess that is the thing here. Is there some sort of correlation you know of between losing the championship game and then winning the SB? Sure, there might be a couple examples, but enough to make it a rule? The only team I saw in the last ten years that lost the NFC championship game and went on to win the SB was NO, who lost the championship 3 years ago, and then won this SB this year. In the AFC, you have the Steelers and Colts, but to me, that is more about top tier franchises that were simply at that level for many years. Heck, the Steelers lost the SB in '96 and won in 2006. Is there a correlation.

I guess that is the thing for me. I don't buy the correlation. We are in the NFC. How many teams in the NFC that lost the Championship game went on to win the SB? NO did three years later. So what. Phily (3), Minny (2), GB, Atlanta, Carolina all lost in the championship game, and none have a lombardi since then to show for it.

So if there is not a correlation between losing the NFC championship and then winning the SB, I question the rationale for thinking it better to lose at that level rather than to simply do as good as your team possibly can, even if that means coming up short in the SB.

Would you rather be the Lions, who have NEVER been to the SB? I guess you can say they have never lost a SB, but I have a feeling if you pulled aside any Lion fan right now and asked, "Hey, even if you know you would lose, would you be happy if your team made it to the SB this year?" I am thinking 99 out of 100 would say hell yea they would take the SB appearance.

Let me ask an easy question. Would you rather bo New Orleans at 1-0 in the Super Bowl or Buffalo 0-4 in the Super Bowl? If you answered N.O. than you more than likely would rather loose the nfc Champ. game (like me) than lose the super Bowl. Now I do want to make the playoffs every year,but I never want to loose the Super Bowl. I AM JUST SAYING I WOULD RATHER LOOSE THE NFC CHAMPIONSHIP RATHER THAN GO TO THE S.B. AND LOOSE.................................

[LT2_3]

I think it's a weird premise because it can only be viewed in hindsight. So to me, preferences are irrelevant because you can't change the past anyway.

In foresight, I want us to win as many games in the playoffs as possible.

Hoping to lose is a losers mentality so I won't be doing any of that ever.

[MadLithuanian]

Sorry I didn't respond sooner vim on a cruise to Alaska and get limited Internet.

I hear ya! On to the current season!

I disagree the slippery slope argument here is that much of a stretch. And yes, I realize how much the slipperly slope argument can be stretched. I remember back in school when I was on the debate team, every argument (and I do mean every) would somehow lead to nuclear war. It was ridiculous, but that is how the arguments went back then. Jaywalking would lead to nuclear destruction

To me though, the logic for not reaching the SB is simply a closer peg to not making the playoffs at all. If the argument is, as I read it (less with you) that it is pretty much a SB or bust rationale, then what is the point of making the playoffs at all if you are going to get bounced early?

Look, I get your argument about the SB loser jinx. For me though, I simply feel you strive to get as far and deep as you possibly can. If you look at the history of the NFL, there are only so many teams that have won the SB, and numerous who have never even reached it that far. Sure, it hurts to lose it, but to say you were not even good enough to get there is pretty bad as well.

At the end of the day, we simply disagree, and I think we can leave it at that. If this were the offseason, we could have fun debating the issue more, but right now, I think we have better things to discuss, like the greatness of Lovie Smith