Well Karma reared its ugly head Options

[MadLithuanian]

Well said gentlemen...

Actually, by rule, as the HC, yes. Lovie is to blame for everything.

To be serious though, who is left? Hasn't every other coach been fired or demoted? As with any company in the real world, #%#$ rolls down the hill. Lovie takes heat, and another assistant is fired. I think we have reached the point where another failed assistant falls on Lovie and he will not be able to blame those below him.

[MadLithuanian]

Again, well said.

Thank you for saving me the time. Spot on.

[MadLithuanian]

Pix, I think you're wrong. Speaking personally, I've been one of Smith's biggest detractors for a while now. However, look to last season and I was more than willing to give him a chance. He's had a ton of chances, and still makes the same mistakes. And to add to nfo's comments, I've had no problem blasting Angelo, Babitch, Tuner, and countless others including Ted and ownership.

Yes, there is plenty of blame to go around...but I and many others feel like Smith's rec'd a pass for far too long, and we've seen too much of the same blunders over and over again. So, henceforth the venom spewed out towards Smith.

You do win as a team and lose as a team...however it's easier to replace the leasr for a failing ship, than replace the entire ship-board crew. And from what I've seen, the crew isn't bad. Why are they playing bad and why aren't they developing? I'm not sure, but that's on Smith.

I would strongly disagree with this assumption of yours. I am surprised, knowing you read most if not all the posts & threads, that you would even say this.

I have no problem with posters not giving respect to Lovie, I am not sure he deserves any, but I do disagree for him getting the blame for everything from A to Z that happens on the field.

I repeat what I said, you win as a team, you lose as a team, and there is plenty of blame to be assigned to many different people within the organization including players.

IMO, assuming the labor contract is signed, if the Bears to not make a trip to the Super Bowl, then clean house. I am not a Lovie apologist. I am not trying to defend the mediocre product that we have had to endure. I just want to see accountability properly assigned and not all blamed on Lovie.

[Pixote]

Hey, I am not apologizing for Lovie, or making excuses for him.

I am just saying that the problem goes beyond Lovie and he can not be blamed for everything that happens.

Despite denials, that is exactly what I am hearing on the forum. It's all Lovie's fault.

Every decision made is questioned and Lovie is called out.

Even the possible demotion of ALvalva (I know I spelled it wrong) was turned into a indictment of Lovie.

As HC he obviously has to take a lot of the blame, granted.

If the team fails this year he obviously has to be the first one out the door, assuming JA is retained.

If JA gets canned also, then the new GM will start the rebuilding process by hiring a new HC.

Simple as that.

This topic is getting old. I rest my case. I have said all I care to about this.

[nfoligno]

I made a big deal about how we handled Graham last year too. He started at CB his 2nd year (1st was lost due to injury) and while he wasn't great, he wasn't bad either. Then in the offseason, he is not even allowed to compete at CB and moved between nickel and FS. I just didn't understand it, until I read an article that talked about how Hoke (our new DB coach last year) didn't feel Graham had the speed to play the position and simply moved him without giving him a chance to prove otherwise. I read this past offseason, Graham put a lot of work into speed training, as well as getting healthy, which supposedly has him faster than previous, and thus he is back in the mix at CB. Still think it was a poor decision, but at least I understand the reasoning.

I will always disagree when it comes to Bradley. Yea, he looked good in small flashes, but (a) he came to the team VERY raw as he was never even a starter in college and ( he was always getting injured and not a player who could be relied on. We send him packing and he plays for KC, where he started out looking pretty decent, but (shock) goes down with an injury. KC cut him midseason. He picked up with TB, where he didn't impress, and I believe they cut him as well. I don't think he is even on a roster now.

There are some moves I would agree with you 100%, and Graham would be an example. Other examples? Constantly moving Idonije back and forth between DT and DE, asking him to add/lose weight seemingly every year. Moving DM all over. Most shocking to me is, DM proved very capable as a nickel DB, but rather than let him develop where he showed the most promise, we continue to move him around. Hell, you could just about place every S we have had over the years into this category, as we never seem to know where to play them.

But when it comes to Afalava, I just don't think there is as great of an issue here. He didn't finish the season well, and started camp behind the veteran addition, top pick rookie and another S (Steltz) who did finish the year on a high note and played well in OTAs.

I am really not convinced Payne was out for that much time and we are relying on reports in relation to Steltz's play. Again, I believe if Manning were given a shot he would likely produce, but he would need some time in the position to learn.

Afalava has been passed by Steltz as well as passed over by Wright and Harris. So yes, it reminds me of the Corey Graham disappearance amongst others, Mark Bradley, etc....they are spoken of very favourably and wham they disappear. Just strange to me how someone goes so quickly from good to bad.

[lemonej]

Who were these other options you mention? DM sucks at S. We have all seen it and know it. Steltz looked awful last year during camp. Graham was experimented with at FS, but that experiment didn't last long. Payne I think was injured. When you say we had other options, who were you thinking about.

Afalava was the best of these options, but that doesn't mean he was a steller performer. He played better than the rest in camp, and was promoted. Give the staff credit for doing that in the first place. But Afalava never develop from that point.

Further, while we looked ugly in terms of options last year, it isn't quite so bad this year. We have added Harris and Wright. Steltz has been the bright some through OTAs. And DM has been moved to SS. So this year we actually do have options where we simply didn't last year.

Nfo Alfalava was demoted from the lineup in the same manner that Harris was when he was in his first year here as was Payne. You have said that this position has been handled the worst and if we add up all the players that have been drafted by JA at this position it all points to Lovie not being satisfied with anyone besides Mike Brown.

[nfoligno]

Honestly, I think a book could be written based on how this team has handled the safety position over the last 5-8 years.

Angelo continually used later round picks to draft safeties who, by all reports, fit the in-the-box style. We then try each of these players at FS, and they fail. We continually move them back and forth between safety positions, never allowing them to develop, and IMHO, killing their confidence.

Honestly, I could go on and on about how we have handled this unit, and have in the past, but what's the point.

At the same time, I simply can not disagree with the Afalava demotion. While he earned the job in camp last year, how much was due to his playing that good as opposed to the rest looking that bad? He started okay, but then really regressed. Meanwhile, Steltz gets a couple starts late and looks good. Then we have our offseason in which we draft Wright and trade for Harris. Also, Steltz follows up his strong finish with a very strong string of OTAs, and from what I have read, has continued that into camp.

Honestly, for all the talk about Afalava, has anyone really heard about him looking great in OTA or camp? With the injuries hitting our safeties, everyone is getting plenty of PT. Harris has missed most of camp, and Wright even went down with injury. I have read good things about Wright (prior to injury) and a lot of good about Steltz, but I have yet to read about Afalava looking good.

Hey, I hate how we have handled the safety unit over the years but I don't want to assume everything is equal or the same. While the path of Afalava may be similar to that of other young safeties, I simply see justification for the move this time.

Nfo Alfalava was demoted from the lineup in the same manner that Harris was when he was in his first year here as was Payne. You have said that this position has been handled the worst and if we add up all the players that have been drafted by JA at this position it all points to Lovie not being satisfied with anyone besides Mike Brown.

[DaventryBearsFan]

Honestly, I think a book could be written based on how this team has handled the safety position over the last 5-8 years.

Angelo continually used later round picks to draft safeties who, by all reports, fit the in-the-box style. We then try each of these players at FS, and they fail. We continually move them back and forth between safety positions, never allowing them to develop, and IMHO, killing their confidence.

Honestly, I could go on and on about how we have handled this unit, and have in the past, but what's the point.

At the same time, I simply can not disagree with the Afalava demotion. While he earned the job in camp last year, how much was due to his playing that good as opposed to the rest looking that bad? He started okay, but then really regressed. Meanwhile, Steltz gets a couple starts late and looks good. Then we have our offseason in which we draft Wright and trade for Harris. Also, Steltz follows up his strong finish with a very strong string of OTAs, and from what I have read, has continued that into camp.

Honestly, for all the talk about Afalava, has anyone really heard about him looking great in OTA or camp? With the injuries hitting our safeties, everyone is getting plenty of PT. Harris has missed most of camp, and Wright even went down with injury. I have read good things about Wright (prior to injury) and a lot of good about Steltz, but I have yet to read about Afalava looking good.

Hey, I hate how we have handled the safety unit over the years but I don't want to assume everything is equal or the same. While the path of Afalava may be similar to that of other young safeties, I simply see justification for the move this time.

I always keep in mind that most, if not all, of what we hear about training camp is what the Bears want us to hear. In addition, perception of the coaches is always going to overrule "appearance." I am not certain about the Afalava situation, but I certainly do wonder about it, particularly due to the history of decision making of Lovie and staff...

[nfoligno]

One thing to understand, I don't not blame anyone who questions this staff, with regard to Afalava or whatever else. This staff has done little to earn blind faith/trust and in fact has done plenty to kill such trust. But when I look at the situation, I simply feel there are differences here than with other times. On the surface, its yet another time our staff has screwed with the development of a young DB. When I look a bit deeper though, I see differenced.

Regarding hearing what the Bears want us to hear, that is only partially true. If you read something on the Bears website, then you are likely reading Bear's PR. If you read something specifically from our staff, then you may well be hearing a PR angle of the issue at hand. But camp is open, with media and fans attending. If a reporter, not on the bears payroll, talks about a player looking good in camp practices, that might be more believable. If several reports (attending camp) from different papers or media outlets have similar stories, then I think it becomes pretty believable.

For example, I have read numerous reporters talking about how Omiyale is struggling, both in protection and avoiding penalties. I think this is pretty believable as there is no reason for several reporters with various bosses to lie. Similar, I have read from several media sources (attending camp) that Steltz is looking good. Thus why would I not believe it?

I always keep in mind that most, if not all, of what we hear about training camp is what the Bears want us to hear. In addition, perception of the coaches is always going to overrule "appearance." I am not certain about the Afalava situation, but I certainly do wonder about it, particularly due to the history of decision making of Lovie and staff...

[lemonej]

One thing to understand, I don't not blame anyone who questions this staff, with regard to Afalava or whatever else. This staff has done little to earn blind faith/trust and in fact has done plenty to kill such trust. But when I look at the situation, I simply feel there are differences here than with other times. On the surface, its yet another time our staff has screwed with the development of a young DB. When I look a bit deeper though, I see differenced.

Regarding hearing what the Bears want us to hear, that is only partially true. If you read something on the Bears website, then you are likely reading Bear's PR. If you read something specifically from our staff, then you may well be hearing a PR angle of the issue at hand. But camp is open, with media and fans attending. If a reporter, not on the bears payroll, talks about a player looking good in camp practices, that might be more believable. If several reports (attending camp) from different papers or media outlets have similar stories, then I think it becomes pretty believable.

For example, I have read numerous reporters talking about how Omiyale is struggling, both in protection and avoiding penalties. I think this is pretty believable as there is no reason for several reporters with various bosses to lie. Similar, I have read from several media sources (attending camp) that Steltz is looking good. Thus why would I not believe it?

I noticed a few false starts on Tuesday myself and it seems there is a little tension going on on the O-line that may be based on the competition factor. BTW Garza looked in mid season form grabbing D-linemen's jerseys.

[nfoligno]

LOL regarding Garza. It is truly a sad testiment that Garza has been one of our best OL in recent years.

I go back and forth on our OL. Part of me looks at it, and with some position changes and solid OL coach, I get a bit of hope that our OL will be better this year. Then part of me listens to the camp reports, and starts to worry. I know defenses usually are further along when camp starts in the first place, and our situation is exteme in that much of our D is filled with veterans and they are coming back to the same scheme used for years. On offense however, it couldn't have changed in the offseason more than it has with even the terminology used being different.

The OL will have between 2 and 4 players starting at positions which they did not start at last year. Williams is still developing. If Beekman doesn't start at LG, we will have another green player at that position. If Garza loses his job, the same. And whoever starts at RT will be different from last year. IMHO, more than any other position on the team, the OL needs time to develop chemistry, and that is even greater when you factor in a lot of youth. Now add in the fact that Tice is bring in a new blocking system, drastically different from what we have been doing, and I am starting to wonder how long before our OL settles.

Last year our OL went through numerous changes, but nothing like this season, and it took better than half the year for them to settle in. The OL actually finished the year on a fairly strong note, but that is the point. We have changed up far more than last year. I am starting to wonder if this OL won't really settle in until the later part of the year, which will be too late.

I noticed a few false starts on Tuesday myself and it seems there is a little tension going on on the O-line that may be based on the competition factor. BTW Garza looked in mid season form grabbing D-linemen's jerseys.