A Case for JSN...

[Mongo3451]

Not many people project a WR to us in the first round, but JSN is an interesting prospect.  JSN projects to be a Cooper Kupp type of receiver, due to his physicality, short area quickness and great route running.  I was listening to ESPN 1000 today and the hosts mentioned that the need for good receivers helps develop a QB better than a good OL. (I don't subscribe to that theory, but they made  good argument)  At this point, I don't see is going that route unless we trade back to get him in the mid teens.  That would also mean we get our OL, DL, edge and BPA in the second and third rounds.  Thoughts?

[ASHKUM BEAR]

56 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

Not many people project a WR to us in the first round, but JSN is an interesting prospect.  JSN projects to be a Cooper Kupp type of receiver, due to his physicality, short area quickness and great route running.  I was listening to ESPN 1000 today and the hosts mentioned that the need for good receivers helps develop a QB better than a good OL. (I don't subscribe to that theory, but they made  good argument)  At this point, I don't see is going that route unless we trade back to get him in the mid teens.  That would also mean we get our OL, DL, edge and BPA in the second and third rounds.  Thoughts?

I know this year, the Bears do not really need another WR but next year they might lose Mooney and Claypool.  I am for it if they can trade down and aquire a high 2nd. That will give them ammo to trade up if needed for a 3T/OT or stand pat and get the players needed.  I am a huge get the best OT guy, but understand a RT can be found round 2. 

[Stinger226]

They are trying to be better this year. He may turnout to be a good WR but he's not  a Chase or Waddle. We have 3 starters and Velus Jones . He's not giving up on Velus , he's going to give him every opportunity to succeed. So he will play the slot, that will take away reps from Mooney easily the player Fields has the most connection with. He's not using his best assets all on one position. He traded a 2nd rounder, out of a valuable first pick in the draft and now use the 9 th pick to add a WR that will be the 4th spot in the WR room? 

None of that makes sense. Mooney and Claypool are still here, you can't draft a WR because they may be gone next year. You draft one next year in you need to.

[AZ54]

Drafting JSN would mean letting Mooney go.  There'd be no reason to keep 2 slot WRs like that on the roster.  I'm not for it because we have too many needs to have a luxury at any one spot.  

[Stinger226]

I guess what I am trying to say is that with our first couple of picks, we need to address other needs. Some of the best WRs in the league are not first round picks.

Tyreek Hill was a 5 th round pick.

Cooper Kupp was a third round pick

Stefon Diggs, 5 th round

I think they target a prospect later in the draft that could become a star.  Mooney came in the 5th .The pick 103 is the first pick on day three. Some talent will drop.

JSN may be a star but he's not a Waddle or Chase type.

 

 

[Mongo3451]

3 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I guess what I am trying to say is that with our first couple of picks, we need to address other needs. Some of the best WRs in the league are not first round picks.

Tyreek Hill was a 5 th round pick.

Cooper Kupp was a third round pick

Stefon Diggs, 5 th round

I think they target a prospect later in the draft that could become a star.  Mooney came in the 5th .The pick 103 is the first pick on day three. Some talent will drop.

JSN may be a star but he's not a Waddle or Chase type.

 

 

I have an issue with stating where players were drafted as an argument to not draft someone.  Cooper Kupp and Stephon Diggs just don't grow on trees.  If you knew they were going to be that good, you draft them early.

The only sure thing we have at receiver is Moore.  Why not try to draft another?  JSN and Mooney are not limited to the slot, as we've already seen Mooney as an outside receiver.  JSN compares to Davante Adams in speed and route running and they lined him up everywhere.  Getsy was Adams WR coach with the Packers.

When I look at Mooney and Claypool in their last year of contract, I see a potential void next season.  WR's take some time to develop, so you do not draft them as an immediate need, because they will likely let you down. 

When the Bucs contended, they had Evans and Godwin, but still needed Gronk and Antonio Brown.  The Rams had Woods and Kupp, but needed OBJ.  The Chiefs loaded up pin receiver for two different Superbowls.  As far as receiver is concerned, you get them when you can.  If we can get JSN in the teens, that would mean we have enough capitol to address OL, DL and BPA.  Fields needs weapons.  If Poles has him rated, I'm good.  Same with Bijan...

 

[AZ54]

Saw someone state a similar case for Jahmyr Gibbs -  get the elite threat out of the backfield and you now have a serious problem with Fields going one direction and Gibbs the other.  Gibbs on routes makes it virtually impossible to put a LB to spy on Fields on passing downs.   From a team building perspective, IMO that argument is stronger versus drafting JSN.  Gibbs would be an option on a trade down scenario, or even trading back twice to late 1st Rd, or potentially getting an early 2nd Rd pick.     

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

I have an issue with stating where players were drafted as an argument to not draft someone.  Cooper Kupp and Stephon Diggs just don't grow on trees.  If you knew they were going to be that good, you draft them early.

The only sure thing we have at receiver is Moore.  Why not try to draft another?  JSN and Mooney are not limited to the slot, as we've already seen Mooney as an outside receiver.  JSN compares to Davante Adams in speed and route running and they lined him up everywhere.  Getsy was Adams WR coach with the Packers.

When I look at Mooney and Claypool in their last year of contract, I see a potential void next season.  WR's take some time to develop, so you do not draft them as an immediate need, because they will likely let you down. 

When the Bucs contended, they had Evans and Godwin, but still needed Gronk and Antonio Brown.  The Rams had Woods and Kupp, but needed OBJ.  The Chiefs loaded up pin receiver for two different Superbowls.  As far as receiver is concerned, you get them when you can.  If we can get JSN in the teens, that would mean we have enough capitol to address OL, DL and BPA.  Fields needs weapons.  If Poles has him rated, I'm good.  Same with Bijan...

 

 

The Bears aren't a good enough team to have the luxury of their 3 best assets all going into the WR room. The  first 4 picks have to be starters. JSN would not be starting on this team in his first year. DJ Moore will be the load WR, they want to see what they have in Mooney and Claypool . Also V Jones will be given the chance to succeed. Poles don't have the luxury picking picks that might start in 2 Years.  I'm predicting what I think Poles will do, not what I want. They will be drafting a WR, it's  justnot going to be at 9.

[Mongo3451]

3 hours ago, AZ54 said:

Saw someone state a similar case for Jahmyr Gibbs -  get the elite threat out of the backfield and you now have a serious problem with Fields going one direction and Gibbs the other.  Gibbs on routes makes it virtually impossible to put a LB to spy on Fields on passing downs.   From a team building perspective, IMO that argument is stronger versus drafting JSN.  Gibbs would be an option on a trade down scenario, or even trading back twice to late 1st Rd, or potentially getting an early 2nd Rd pick.     

I'm not opposed to any weapon that can help Justin succeed.  A good move TE can be a valuable asset.

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

The Bears aren't a good enough team to have the luxury of their 3 best assets all going into the WR room. The  first 4 picks have to be starters. JSN would not be starting on this team in his first year. DJ Moore will be the load WR, they want to see what they have in Mooney and Claypool . Also V Jones will be given the chance to succeed. Poles don't have the luxury picking picks that might start in 2 Years.  I'm predicting what I think Poles will do, not what I want. They will be drafting a WR, it's  justnot going to be at 9.

The Bears aren't good enough to contend this year either, so why not draft what you can help Justin moving forward.  We have ten picks and 39 million in cap space.  The OL and DL will be addressed.  We need guys that can make plays and I don't trust Claypool, Velus and ESB at all.  I really don't care if it's a WR, RB or TE or any combination thereof.  We need weapons developed with Justin so we can open the window next year.

[Stinger226]

That's far to say you don't trust CLaypool and V Jones. As I said before my opinion is ( what I think Poles is going to do.)  If you want a offensive player, Robinson is the only choice, he looks like a blue chip player with rookie of the year written all over him.

[BearFan2000]

Just like Bjon Robinson I’m all for the talent and in most cases I’d be down for taking either at 9 or preferably dropping down a few spots and picking up an extra 2nd. However, as much as I like these guys, I feel like they would be luxury picks that we don’t have the luxury on our roster to pass on players at higher need positions.  I would like to see us possibly trade down a few spots and pick up an extra 2nd. Unless there’s someone at 9 we can’t pass up on.  I’m starting to warm to the idea of taking Carter if he’s there as long as Poles and Flous feel they can coach him up as a player and as a man.  I’ll trust their evaluation.  If by chance he’s there at 9 I’m sure there will be offers. Would I hat Robinson or JSN at 9 no but just don’t see Poles going there.  

[Stinger226]

5 hours ago, BearFan2000 said:

Just like Bjon Robinson I’m all for the talent and in most cases I’d be down for taking either at 9 or preferably dropping down a few spots and picking up an extra 2nd. However, as much as I like these guys, I feel like they would be luxury picks that we don’t have the luxury on our roster to pass on players at higher need positions.  I would like to see us possibly trade down a few spots and pick up an extra 2nd. Unless there’s someone at 9 we can’t pass up on.  I’m starting to warm to the idea of taking Carter if he’s there as long as Poles and Flous feel they can coach him up as a player and as a man.  I’ll trust their evaluation.  If by chance he’s there at 9 I’m sure there will be offers. Would I hat Robinson or JSN at 9 no but just don’t see Poles going there.  

I agree. There are 20 stars I would like but its a building process. If Carter drops, you take him, unless someone offers you something you can't refuse. A second round and a first round next year plus there pick. Poles will surprise us .

[BearFan PHX]

I think it's worth asking whether Carter will take to Eberflus' mode of coaching - all the extra conditioning and HITS principles. I suspect Carter wouldnt fit well with that approach, even if he is one of the top talents in the draft.

And you know me - I really want a dominant 3T! If Carter didnt have the love of the game questions, and didnt take plays off, I'd be yelling for him over any of the OTs. But I think Carter is not matched well with Eberflus, so I'm hoping we land Darnell Wright instead.

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I think it's worth asking whether Carter will take to Eberflus' mode of coaching - all the extra conditioning and HITS principles. I suspect Carter wouldnt fit well with that approach, even if he is one of the top talents in the draft.

And you know me - I really want a dominant 3T! If Carter didnt have the love of the game questions, and didnt take plays off, I'd be yelling for him over any of the OTs. But I think Carter is not matched well with Eberflus, so I'm hoping we land Darnell Wright instead.

The way I look at it, if Poles ends up drafting him, he will already have the answer. We are not privy  to all the information but I don't think he takes a big risk on his highest draft pick he may ever have. He's not playing poker with his best asset . We just don't get to see everything. I hope Carter drops and Poles takes him. If he gets the best player in the draft at 9, that would be amazing. Upgrade at edge and a future all pro in the middle? Grab a RT in the second round and lets play football.

[dawhizz]

7 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I think it's worth asking whether Carter will take to Eberflus' mode of coaching - all the extra conditioning and HITS principles. I suspect Carter wouldnt fit well with that approach, even if he is one of the top talents in the draft.

And you know me - I really want a dominant 3T! If Carter didnt have the love of the game questions, and didnt take plays off, I'd be yelling for him over any of the OTs. But I think Carter is not matched well with Eberflus, so I'm hoping we land Darnell Wright instead.

Then again, if he didn’t have love of the game questions, we wouldn’t be potentially In a position to draft him. 

[Stinger226]

Was listening to Greg Gabriel and he was talking to one of his friends that still works for a team, part of the war room, that said they have Carter removed from their big board. 

[Pixote]

3 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

Was listening to Greg Gabriel and he was talking to one of his friends that still works for a team, part of the war room, that said they have Carter removed from their big board. 

I hope the guy Gabriel referred to is working for Detroit. 😉

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, Pixote said:

I hope the guy Gabriel referred to is working for Detroit. 😉

That would suck to pass him up and then play in Detroit twice a year. He wouldn't mention the team.

[BearFan2000]

14 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I think it's worth asking whether Carter will take to Eberflus' mode of coaching - all the extra conditioning and HITS principles. I suspect Carter wouldnt fit well with that approach, even if he is one of the top talents in the draft.

And you know me - I really want a dominant 3T! If Carter didnt have the love of the game questions, and didnt take plays off, I'd be yelling for him over any of the OTs. But I think Carter is not matched well with Eberflus, so I'm hoping we land Darnell Wright instead.

I forget who I heard talking about Carter and the Bears, but they had an interesting take on it. Their thinking was a disciplined approach to coaching may be just what Carter needs rather than a soft players coach style approach or babying him.  I do think there’s some truth to that. He might just need that push to light a fire under him. 
 

we’ll soon find out what Poles evaluation is if he does fall to 9.  

[BearFan PHX]

3 minutes ago, BearFan2000 said:

I forget who I heard talking about Carter and the Bears, but they had an interesting take on it. Their thinking was a disciplined approach to coaching may be just what Carter needs rather than a soft players coach style approach or babying him.  I do think there’s some truth to that. He might just need that push to light a fire under him. 
 

we’ll soon find out what Poles evaluation is if he does fall to 9.  

I think it depends on the question.

If the question is "what is the approach that might end in Carter being a consistently good player" then yes, Eberflus is the best way.

But if the question is "what kind of player best fits Eberflus' way and has the best chance to succeed?" I dont think its Carter.

So from Carter's point of view, it could be good, but from the Bears' point of view, less so?

[ASHKUM BEAR]

3 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I think it depends on the question.

If the question is "what is the approach that might end in Carter being a consistently good player" then yes, Eberflus is the best way.

But if the question is "what kind of player best fits Eberflus' way and has the best chance to succeed?" I dont think its Carter.

So from Carter's point of view, it could be good, but from the Bears' point of view, less so?

Their best case is for him to drop and a team trades massive capital for him.  Give more ammo for the Bears to take players they feel good about buying into their system.  Carter can sink a team or elevate a team but it all depends on him buying in

[BearFan PHX]

6 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Their best case is for him to drop and a team trades massive capital for him.  Give more ammo for the Bears to take players they feel good about buying into their system.  Carter can sink a team or elevate a team but it all depends on him buying in

I agree, as long as the trade down isnt too cute and we miss out on a blue chipper. I would be happy if they took Wright at 9. Id be thrilled if they traded down and still got him - that would mean they were better poker players than iw ould be at that moment. But if they trade down and we dont get the right player, then it doesnt matter how many 3rd rounders you got out of it I think.

Now, if they trade down for a guy like Kancey (and they believe he is the real deal, while I can only HOPE he is) then OK too.

But I would think we might either trade down just a couple spots, rather than getting massive capital, and take Wright, or even just take him at #9.

I've come a long way on this. I still think we need a 3T desperately, but i cant wave a magic wand and make Carter into someone i dont think he is, or Kancey someone he might not be. And I think Wright is a stud with the kind of attitude we need.

[Stinger226]

5 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I agree, as long as the trade down isnt too cute and we miss out on a blue chipper. I would be happy if they took Wright at 9. Id be thrilled if they traded down and still got him - that would mean they were better poker players than iw ould be at that moment. But if they trade down and we dont get the right player, then it doesnt matter how many 3rd rounders you got out of it I think.

Now, if they trade down for a guy like Kancey (and they believe he is the real deal, while I can only HOPE he is) then OK too.

But I would think we might either trade down just a couple spots, rather than getting massive capital, and take Wright, or even just take him at #9.

I've come a long way on this. I still think we need a 3T desperately, but i cant wave a magic wand and make Carter into someone i dont think he is, or Kancey someone he might not be. And I think Wright is a stud with the kind of attitude we need.

You know Poles likes players that play with an attitude. Wright , Mauch, and Bergeron fit that bill as OTs. I think we end up with one.

[jason]

On 4/20/2023 at 4:46 PM, Mongo3451 said:

Not many people project a WR to us in the first round, but JSN is an interesting prospect.  JSN projects to be a Cooper Kupp type of receiver, due to his physicality, short area quickness and great route running.  I was listening to ESPN 1000 today and the hosts mentioned that the need for good receivers helps develop a QB better than a good OL. (I don't subscribe to that theory, but they made good argument)  At this point, I don't see is going that route unless we trade back to get him in the mid teens.  That would also mean we get our OL, DL, edge and BPA in the second and third rounds.  Thoughts?

I would have ignored everything they said afterwards. It's just moronic.

Put five scrubs on the OL and have Jerry Rice / Randy Moss as the two WRs. Scrubs get trampled, QB runs for his life, we have nightmares of the Cutler years, and the WRs catch very few passes.

Consider this OL, however, and literally any NFL WR in history would get open:

• Johnathan Ogden (OT)
• John Hannah (OG)
• Jim Otto (C)
• Bruce Matthews (OG)
• Anthony Munoz (OT)

Getting a WR or RB in the first round this year, with the current pick, would be a horrible pick for the Bears. At least two offensive linemen need to be replaced, and one could argue the entire defensive line needs to be replaced. 

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, jason said:

I would have ignored everything they said afterwards. It's just moronic.

Put five scrubs on the OL and have Jerry Rice / Randy Moss as the two WRs. Scrubs get trampled, QB runs for his life, we have nightmares of the Cutler years, and the WRs catch very few passes.

Consider this OL, however, and literally any NFL WR in history would get open:

• Johnathan Ogden (OT)
• John Hannah (OG)
• Jim Otto (C)
• Bruce Matthews (OG)
• Anthony Munoz (OT)

Getting a WR or RB in the first round this year, with the current pick, would be a horrible pick for the Bears. At least two offensive linemen need to be replaced, and one could argue the entire defensive line needs to be replaced. 

Is there actually someone who is not arguing to replace our entire Dline?