From Pretenders to Contenders...

[Stinger226]

Zadurius Smith just got traded for 2 5th rounders plus giving back a 6 and 7 th rounder. It will go cheaper than a 2 nd rounder. 

2024 4th rounder from Philly and a 2 nd rounder from the Panthers in 2025. 

These are extra picks, you think they would take that?

[AZ54]

I watched the interview and Poles seemed pretty clear he's in some discussions on a trade.   First for me is what is the status of the injury so 100% that's gotta be reviewed first and foremost.  If we make the trade we're effectively obligated to give him a contract extension.  What does that look like?  I'd be negotiating that up front with his agent before any trade is made because you want some common ground.   The Ravens knew what they were getting with Roquan and paid his demands although they waited until right at the end of the season.  That injury concern is the main and only reason why I wouldn't make the trade. 

Why I would make the trade:  I scanned a couple early 2024 draft rankings and the Edge class is underwhelming.   Assuming Poles/Flus value length at the position

The only top 10 Edge prospect (Draft Network) is 6'3" 240lbs Dallas Turner Alabama.    He is way too small for what want and the first thing you see in his highlights is that he's not Will Anderson.   I watched a bit of the Texas game and OTs swallow him up completely on a lot of plays.   

Top 20 Edge prospects: 

Jared Verse FSU, listed at 6'4" 248lbs.  Might be a good fit if his height is accurate and he's got some quick twitch.  Looks a little more compact in build.  

JT Tuimoloau Ohio St.   6'4". 270lbs,   He's more power rusher than quickness but can bend a bit around the edge, similar style to what you saw from Tuli this year.   Similar to Myles Murphy in some aspects. 

Top 30 Edge prospects:  

Jack Sawyer Ohio St.   6'5". 250lbs.   Again he's more power rusher than quickness and bend off the edge.  

IMO Jared Verse represents the best speed rusher option followed by JT Tuimoloau who fits the big edge style Flus likes.   But that's just two players, and Sawyer and Turner are guys you can find in any draft.  I'm sure there will be some younger players who declare, and maybe someone else will move up, but the pool of 1st Rd Edge players doesn't appear to be very deep.   It's almost like last year when Poles traded for Claypool because he saw the 2032 WR class wasn't very deep (he proved to be correct).   

None of these prospects is close to what a healthy Chase Young can do on the field.  

  

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

I watched the interview and Poles seemed pretty clear he's in some discussions on a trade.   First for me is what is the status of the injury so 100% that's gotta be reviewed first and foremost.  If we make the trade we're effectively obligated to give him a contract extension.  What does that look like?  I'd be negotiating that up front with his agent before any trade is made because you want some common ground.   The Ravens knew what they were getting with Roquan and paid his demands although they waited until right at the end of the season.  That injury concern is the main and only reason why I wouldn't make the trade. 

Why I would make the trade:  I scanned a couple early 2024 draft rankings and the Edge class is underwhelming.   Assuming Poles/Flus value length at the position

The only top 10 Edge prospect (Draft Network) is 6'3" 240lbs Dallas Turner Alabama.    He is way too small for what want and the first thing you see in his highlights is that he's not Will Anderson.   I watched a bit of the Texas game and OTs swallow him up completely on a lot of plays.   

Top 20 Edge prospects: 

Jared Verse FSU, listed at 6'4" 248lbs.  Might be a good fit if his height is accurate and he's got some quick twitch.  Looks a little more compact in build.  

JT Tuimoloau Ohio St.   6'4". 270lbs,   He's more power rusher than quickness but can bend a bit around the edge, similar style to what you saw from Tuli this year.   Similar to Myles Murphy in some aspects. 

Top 30 Edge prospects:  

Jack Sawyer Ohio St.   6'5". 250lbs.   Again he's more power rusher than quickness and bend off the edge.  

IMO Jared Verse represents the best speed rusher option followed by JT Tuimoloau who fits the big edge style Flus likes.   But that's just two players, and Sawyer and Turner are guys you can find in any draft.  I'm sure there will be some younger players who declare, and maybe someone else will move up, but the pool of 1st Rd Edge players doesn't appear to be very deep.   It's almost like last year when Poles traded for Claypool because he saw the 2032 WR class wasn't very deep (he proved to be correct).   

None of these prospects is close to what a healthy Chase Young can do on the field.  

  

see, this is why this board is better than any of the hometown newspapers. you gonna hear this in the sun Times or the Trib? No way.

Great info, AZ.

[Stinger226]

6 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

see, this is why this board is better than any of the hometown newspapers. you gonna hear this in the sun Times or the Trib? No way.

Great info, AZ.

I read almost everything Bears related articles. WCG, Bear Goggles, Bears insider, CHGO Bears, PFF Bears, Bears Wire, Sports Mockery (Bears), and The Athletics'. AZ easily is a better writer than 3/4 of those writers on those sites. I realize they need reading content and put out a lot of stupid threads but some stick out with well thought out content, and AZ could easily do that for a living. 

I dont always agree with his opinions but he always puts out well thought content. 

If Chase Young is an option and Poles pulls that trigger, then I know he did his homework and will be excited. The one thing Poles has shown is  he's not going to spend value on a pick or FA that could end up a bust. That's why he rarely throws out big long term contracts. Its still a work in progress. 

People look at the Chase Claypool for a second round pick as a bad value acquisition . I think before we can be critical on that move we have to let this year play out. At the time we made that trade we didnt have a top 5 pick yet. The draft and FAgency was underwhelming in the WR room. Now a few draftees emerged as a high upside but none of them would have been available at pick 32. He traded with the thought of Fields and Chase getting some time to bond for the rest of the year which because of injuries didnt work out. But for this year he has a head start to bond with Justin.  He's tall, fast , good high point, and has proven production in the league. His rookie year was his best production because he had high level WRs in their WR room. He put him so he wasnt getting #1 CB or double teams. He will flourish with Moore , Mooney, and Kmet to throw to . 

I think as far as trades that Carl Lawson would be more of a target than Young. He doesnt have any injury history to worry about and will come cheaper in trade value. He had 8 sacks last year and 49 pressures. He got overpaid on a contract when he signed with the Jets. He is getting 15 mil this yr.( not worth it) but if Poles gets him I sure there will be a new contract that will lower that price. New contract( 3 yrs-32 mil.)  He tore his Achilles injury in 2021 but played 600 snaps last yr so he is beyond that. 

IMO if he has to spend 10+ mil for a player, might as well just sign Yannick Ngakoue for one yr and figure long term out next yr. When he signed Walker, other than Ngakoue, he got a player with the best production of any of the other FA DEs available.  I think Walker is going to be our leading sacker that is being looked at as no one special. His stats were good and has upside. 7 sacks, 10 TFL, 16 QB hits, 32 QB pressures. 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

10 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I watched the interview and Poles seemed pretty clear he's in some discussions on a trade.   First for me is what is the status of the injury so 100% that's gotta be reviewed first and foremost.  If we make the trade we're effectively obligated to give him a contract extension.  What does that look like?  I'd be negotiating that up front with his agent before any trade is made because you want some common ground.   The Ravens knew what they were getting with Roquan and paid his demands although they waited until right at the end of the season.  That injury concern is the main and only reason why I wouldn't make the trade. 

Why I would make the trade:  I scanned a couple early 2024 draft rankings and the Edge class is underwhelming.   Assuming Poles/Flus value length at the position

The only top 10 Edge prospect (Draft Network) is 6'3" 240lbs Dallas Turner Alabama.    He is way too small for what want and the first thing you see in his highlights is that he's not Will Anderson.   I watched a bit of the Texas game and OTs swallow him up completely on a lot of plays.   

Top 20 Edge prospects: 

Jared Verse FSU, listed at 6'4" 248lbs.  Might be a good fit if his height is accurate and he's got some quick twitch.  Looks a little more compact in build.  

JT Tuimoloau Ohio St.   6'4". 270lbs,   He's more power rusher than quickness but can bend a bit around the edge, similar style to what you saw from Tuli this year.   Similar to Myles Murphy in some aspects. 

Top 30 Edge prospects:  

Jack Sawyer Ohio St.   6'5". 250lbs.   Again he's more power rusher than quickness and bend off the edge.  

IMO Jared Verse represents the best speed rusher option followed by JT Tuimoloau who fits the big edge style Flus likes.   But that's just two players, and Sawyer and Turner are guys you can find in any draft.  I'm sure there will be some younger players who declare, and maybe someone else will move up, but the pool of 1st Rd Edge players doesn't appear to be very deep.   It's almost like last year when Poles traded for Claypool because he saw the 2032 WR class wasn't very deep (he proved to be correct).   

None of these prospects is close to what a healthy Chase Young can do on the field.  

  

We know the type of athlete the Bears look for.  Length with high athletic measurable (RAS).  A year before the draft, we didn't consider Wright for OT and he excelled more on that profile than other OTs, so someone will emerge.  Come August, I will be looking for Bruce Feldmans freak list.

[AZ54]

5 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I read almost everything Bears related articles. WCG, Bear Goggles, Bears insider, CHGO Bears, PFF Bears, Bears Wire, Sports Mockery (Bears), and The Athletics'. AZ easily is a better writer than 3/4 of those writers on those sites. I realize they need reading content and put out a lot of stupid threads but some stick out with well thought out content, and AZ could easily do that for a living. 

I dont always agree with his opinions but he always puts out well thought content. 

If Chase Young is an option and Poles pulls that trigger, then I know he did his homework and will be excited. The one thing Poles has shown is  he's not going to spend value on a pick or FA that could end up a bust. That's why he rarely throws out big long term contracts. Its still a work in progress. 

People look at the Chase Claypool for a second round pick as a bad value acquisition . I think before we can be critical on that move we have to let this year play out. At the time we made that trade we didnt have a top 5 pick yet. The draft and FAgency was underwhelming in the WR room. Now a few draftees emerged as a high upside but none of them would have been available at pick 32. He traded with the thought of Fields and Chase getting some time to bond for the rest of the year which because of injuries didnt work out. But for this year he has a head start to bond with Justin.  He's tall, fast , good high point, and has proven production in the league. His rookie year was his best production because he had high level WRs in their WR room. He put him so he wasnt getting #1 CB or double teams. He will flourish with Moore , Mooney, and Kmet to throw to . 

I think as far as trades that Carl Lawson would be more of a target than Young. He doesnt have any injury history to worry about and will come cheaper in trade value. He had 8 sacks last year and 49 pressures. He got overpaid on a contract when he signed with the Jets. He is getting 15 mil this yr.( not worth it) but if Poles gets him I sure there will be a new contract that will lower that price. New contract( 3 yrs-32 mil.)  He tore his Achilles injury in 2021 but played 600 snaps last yr so he is beyond that. 

IMO if he has to spend 10+ mil for a player, might as well just sign Yannick Ngakoue for one yr and figure long term out next yr. When he signed Walker, other than Ngakoue, he got a player with the best production of any of the other FA DEs available.  I think Walker is going to be our leading sacker that is being looked at as no one special. His stats were good and has upside. 7 sacks, 10 TFL, 16 QB hits, 32 QB pressures. 

We have two of the WRs GB was targeting in trades last year:  DJ Moore and Chase Claypool.   First step to getting into the playoffs is winning your division and it cost us a bit to play defense on the Claypool trade and block them.   

[Stinger226]

Swifty is an optimist, (just like me) and always presents the upside of players. This is a long video but if you have the time, you will feel much better about Dexter as a second round pick. There is one play against Tenn where he takes on a triple block and still makes the play. One of the blockers is Darnell Wright. Great strength and can get stronger. He was rated higher than Jalen Carter coming out of high school. I dont want to be a bear bonehead but he could be better than Jalen Carter   in a few yrs.

 

[Mongo3451]

Swifty is an optimist.  Usually, I'm not a fan of his work.  In reviewing Dexter, I looked at Lance Zeirline from NFL.com.  He's not high on Dexter at all and gave him a 6.0 rating.  After doing my own look at Dexter, I tend to agree with Swifty this time.  I looked at a comparable athlete, in Deforest Buckner, and Dexter is way more athletic, with more than double the RAS.  I believe Dexter's slow off the snap and lack of punch traits stem from his read and react role at Florida.  In Flus's defense, he will be asked to seek and destroy, which leads to more natural aggression vs anticipation.

[Stinger226]

3 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

Swifty is an optimist.  Usually, I'm not a fan of his work.  In reviewing Dexter, I looked at Lance Zeirline from NFL.com.  He's not high on Dexter at all and gave him a 6.0 rating.  After doing my own look at Dexter, I tend to agree with Swifty this time.  I looked at a comparable athlete, in Deforest Buckner, and Dexter is way more athletic, with more than double the RAS.  I believe Dexter's slow off the snap and lack of punch traits stem from his read and react role at Florida.  In Flus's defense, he will be asked to seek and destroy, which leads to more natural aggression vs anticipation.

He has amazing strength and quickness for a 6'6" 312 man. Good coaching can make him a monster. He needs to maintain low pad level , get his hands up when applying pressure on the QB. If they get him to 13% body fat, he will be a handful. Poles is banking on coaching him up to realize his potential, I agree. He has a high motor , rarely seen him loaf. 

[AZ54]

I watched Swift’s video and another one.   What stood out to me is that it’s not just his base,  Dexter has a lot of core strength. You don’t see him get bent backwards very often but it’s really obvious when he’s tosses OG left and right to make a tackle.  He’s in control.  
 

We signed Billings to be our 1 tech and he’s stout enough to anchor even against a double team.  However,  I never saw a highlight where he’s tossing Oline aside like Dexter.   Best case he’s working one side or the other.  Or he has to give ground to get himself back to the other gap.  In this role as a 2 down player Dexter will be an upgrade. 
 
If Flus can get Dexter upfield into a gap to anchor one yard into the backfield he will mess up a lot of plays.  From there an Improved pass rush is just around the corner.  
 

 

 

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I watched Swift’s video and another one.   What stood out to me is that it’s not just his base,  Dexter has a lot of core strength. You don’t see him get bent backwards very often but it’s really obvious when he’s tosses OG left and right to make a tackle.  He’s in control.  
 

We signed Billings to be our 1 tech and he’s stout enough to anchor even against a double team.  However,  I never saw a highlight where he’s tossing Oline aside like Dexter.   Best case he’s working one side or the other.  Or he has to give ground to get himself back to the other gap.  In this role as a 2 down player Dexter will be an upgrade. 
 
If Flus can get Dexter upfield into a gap to anchor one yard into the backfield he will mess up a lot of plays.  From there an Improved pass rush is just around the corner.  
 

 

 

I saw the same film. I saw plenty of examples where he wasnt late out of his stance from 2021, and youre right his strength is incredible.

Im feeling a lot better about this draft now that I see Dexter's upside.

I wonder if Dexter can be sudden enough to be a monster 3T. He looks like he will be fine at NT, but if he can be huge and strong and shoot the gap and be disruptive, this could be something really special.

And as long as Im drunk on Kool Aid - wouldnt it be cool if Dexter turns out to be a Pro Bowl 3T and Carter doesnt? We could have a Poles parade.

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

I saw the same film. I saw plenty of examples where he wasnt late out of his stance from 2021, and youre right his strength is incredible.

Im feeling a lot better about this draft now that I see Dexter's upside.

I wonder if Dexter can be sudden enough to be a monster 3T. He looks like he will be fine at NT, but if he can be huge and strong and shoot the gap and be disruptive, this could be something really special.

And as long as Im drunk on Kool Aid - wouldnt it be cool if Dexter turns out to be a Pro Bowl 3T and Carter doesnt? We could have a Poles parade.

If there is anytime to drink Kool Aid its now. Until further input, I trust Poles on what he does. If he thinks Dexter can be a blue chip player, Im all in. We drafted 3 DTs so I know it will upgrade the DL at the worst and as they grow as players will only get better. Billings is a very good player that was better than anyone we had a NT last year, so that is already a plus. Then Walker is better than anyone that played the edge last year.  Walkers senior yr was 68 Ts-21 1/2 TFL-16 sacks. I think his signing has been undervalued to most people.

I wish he would hurry up and add an edge so we know what we have to play with. The unknown factor is what we get out of Robinson and Gipson. 

[dawhizz]

Very cool behind the scenes stuff on the draft here. I know there’s also a video up on NFL+ interviewing Pokes about the draft process, but I don’t have NFL+ - maybe someone who dies can summarize?
 

[Pixote]

Damn, I loved that video. There has always been the debate as to if players need to be choir boys to be a Bear. No, you don't. But I love it when you have a player who looks like a blue chip prospect AND has a great attitude. That is obviously what Poles is looking for and had brought in for us.

I saw where Wright has already signed. Rare for a top 10 1st round draftee to sign this quick. was he the first top 10 pick to sign? Wright is truly hyped up and ready to make himself a Pro Bowl OT. Tremendous skill set, great attitude. I can just imagine this huge beast looking at his rep and telling him to get off his ass and bring him a contract to sign, now, not tomorrow, not next week, NOW.

[dawhizz]

1 hour ago, Pixote said:

Damn, I loved that video. There has always been the debate as to if players need to be choir boys to be a Bear. No, you don't. But I love it when you have a player who looks like a blue chip prospect AND has a great attitude. That is obviously what Poles is looking for and had brought in for us.

I saw where Wright has already signed. Rare for a top 10 1st round draftee to sign this quick. was he the first top 10 pick to sign? Wright is truly hyped up and ready to make himself a Pro Bowl OT. Tremendous skill set, great attitude. I can just imagine this huge beast looking at his rep and telling him to get off his ass and bring him a contract to sign, now, not tomorrow, not next week, NOW.

Looks like picks 6-10 have all signed, but none of the top ten. 
 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2023-nfl-draft-first-round-picks-contract-tracker-bears-latest-team-to-sign-top-rookie-full-list-of-signings/

[Pixote]

Wow, I had no idea that many in the top ten picks have signed. Thanks for the link.

[Mongo3451]

Cliff Stein is back in the house!!!

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

Cliff Stein is back in the house!!!

the only guy in the former office(s) who was good, and he is great, so glad hes back.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

7 hours ago, dawhizz said:

Very cool behind the scenes stuff on the draft here. I know there’s also a video up on NFL+ interviewing Pokes about the draft process, but I don’t have NFL+ - maybe someone who dies can summarize?
 

Damn this was a moving video that hits you knowing the front office is going to do the right things.  I cannot wait for the season to start and will be just as excited for the next draft.

[Stinger226]

Normally you don't get this much presence from the coaching staff, plus the GMs being so available. Besides being a bears fan, they make you route for them. Never had this kind of connection with the front office before. Makes you believe in them. I think we have a good future going on right now.