LT2_3
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Posts posted by LT2_3
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Welcome back LT! I'm SO glad you haven't left for good.
Hey BearSox, there's no need to attack people out of your ignorance. Good luck to whatever YOU do next, given your judgemental attitude, and willingness to make quick decisions on less than all the facts. Don't be an ass.
Dude! Thanks for the support. However, when those comments were made, he didn't think I was returning and his perspective was a bit justified. I don't think he would have made them if he'd known that some actual communication would have resolved the issue. That's on me. Mea Culpa.
Da Bearssssssssssssssssss
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LT2, Despite how my last email reads, I am glad you are back, and NOT just for your cap analysis, but for your overall contributions.
There is no way for me to say, "I hope you didn't/don't take offense" to what I said. My main issue was, I feared others leaving after year, and I wanted to stop that quick. I do respect you and your opinions, and simply hope we can move forward and work toward making this forum meet everyones expectations.
I am sorry if I insulted you, and am very glad you are still around.
No worries mate. I understand your perspective completely. The biggest issue was that DBDB is busy in Tax season, and Pix hadn't been around for awhile because he's been busy with his work. I was asking for things to be done, and Balta, the mod who's been around the most, didn't know exactly what to do and left it for the other guys, that haven't been around much, to deal with. I misconstrued the lack of action as being ignored when it was really just a lack of communication. I think that everyone involved will communicate better in the future and this sort of thing won't happen again.
Nfo - you have strong opinions and voice them. I ought to know that about you by now. I expect no less.
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This will be controversal, and I will probably come off as an ass, but I feel it necessary to speak up before other old posters get disenfranchised and take off.
This is my undestanding of some of what went down. Maybe someone like Pix can throw in on this.
Lt2 had some issues w/ how some things were moderated, and I guess he sent an email to the moderators. He did not get an immediate response, and the lack of communication had him stewing over the situation to the point he said F it, and asked for his salary cap info to be removed.
Later, a poll was created asking how posters wanted the forum to be moderated or set up, but Lt2 essentially said too little, too late. He posted a fairly scathing comments attacking the moderators for not replying to him soon enough. Pix, as a moderator, posted a reply talking about how busy his schedule was, and apologizing for not replying sooner. Lt2 then said he was upset w/ the other moderators.
Anyway, there was a lot of drama, but to be frank, I lost a bit of respect for LT2 over this crap. He has always been a great poster, but instead of simply working w/ moderators to solve concerns and issues, he got pissy and decided this board, and our community wasn't worth the fight. I recall his asking me in an email if it wasn't w/in his rights to ask for his cap stuff to be removed. To be honest, I felt like he was acting like that little boy who got upset, and decided to go home, taking his ball w/ him. Yea, he did a ton of work on the cap, and gets MAJOR props for that, but his hissy fit taking the cap stuff w/ him was pretty sad IMHO. In doing so, he did not only say F U to the moderators, but essently told me that he doesn't give a shit about the rest of us who post here. It's all about him.
Like I said, I am going to come off as an ass here, I am sure. The only ones who are not going to rip me for this are posters previously from this board. But I think LT2s actions need to be pointed out before others decide to follow his lead. I am not saying moderators were perfect. But to have read all the posts, the arrogance was shocking. And who does taking his cap stuff hurt? Think about that for a minute. Everyone is talking about how much they like LT2, but in that action, he said he didn't give a shit about the rest of the board.
I am sorry if there is simply so much more to this than I realize, but I would hate to lose this community we have put together. For years I have spoken w/ you guys, and when I read about the downfall of the old board, I was worried I would lose that community. We found a new board, and while not perfect, IMHO is not so bad that is warrants simply taking off. Moderators seem open to working w/ us to adapt and change, and I think this place is worth working through issues. In other words, I would rather work through our problems than leave, and take my ball w/ me.
Guys, I haven't left for good. I had a problem with how a few things were being moderated, and asked for my salary cap thread to be removed. I also pointed out in several of these communications that I have an updated Salary cap analysis that should be ready soon. I had a nice little exchange of PMs with Balta and everything is cool now. Basically, Balta was doing what he thought to be right at the time, and the other admins like Pixote and DBDB were busy with their everyday lives and weren't really be on top of things because of it. I have to remind myself that Pix is of a different generation. I boggles my mind that he doesn't check email for a week. I can't go an hour unless I'm on vacation and even then I forward it to my phone and check it twice a day.
That difference in "culture" caused quite a bit of the misunderstanding.If I were to characterize the whole situation, I perhaps flew off the handle without waiting for some of the other admins coming around to see what's going on because it's the offseason. I think improved understanding of expectations and communications between the admins will make things go more smoothly in the future.
My NEW Cap Analaysis will have the most accurate info ever. They are doing some changes on the NFLPA website and they left the entire website open for download for a little while. I got some definitive numbers for this year for every player on the Bears, but they use different terminology than the rest of the world so I'm having to interpret a bit on each contract to reconcile it with my current spreadsheet.
Oh, here's the info I have on Tait's contract......
Tait Contract
6 yrs - 3 mil signing bonus 500k/yr proration
7.5 mil Roster bonus 1st year
3 mil LTBE bonus 1st year
4 mil roster bonus in 2005
1 mil LTBE bonus in 2005
Salaries
2004 535k
2005 550k
2006 3.865 mil
2007 4.45 mil
2008 4.6 mil
2009 4.8 mil
Salary cap hits
2004 535k + 500k SB + 7.5m RB + 3m LTBE = 11.535 mil cap hit (11.035 mil cash outlay)
2005 550k + 500k SB + 4m RB -3m 2004 LTBE + 1m LTBE = 3.05 mil cap hit (4.55 mil cash outlay)
2006 3.865 mil + 500k SB – 1m 2005 LTBE = 3.365 mil cap hit (3.865 mil cash outlay)
2007 4.45 mil + 500k SB = 4.95 mil cap hit (4.45 mil cash outlay)
2008 4.6 mil + 500k SB = 5.1 mil cap hit (4.6 mil cash outlay)
2009 4.8 mil + 500k SB = 5.3 mil cap hit (4.8 mil cash outlay)
Total cap hits = 33.3 mil
And as for those numbers posted on the official Bears board, I've spot checked a few and they are, in the kindest possible way, wildly inaccurate.
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Lloyd,
I have deleted your salary cap post as you requested.
Thank you.
I showed you no disrespect. I received your email Monday. I worked M-S of this week, this is my first day off since getting your email. I do not check my email daily, but I see it was dated the 12th. Every day this week I got up at 4:30 AM and left the house for work by 5:30 AM. Every day I returned to my home between 6:45 & 7:15 PM. Back to bed between 8 & 8:30 PM. I took awhile trying to figure out today just how to delete a post, finally found all the Admin options and deleted your post. First time I had to use these controls.Pix, I have no beef with you. I know you are incredibly busy. My complaint is with the other board admins that have been here and posting in other threads. My request has gone completely ignored until you made this post. Not even a PM or email about NOT doing it for whatever reason. Just cold shoulder all the way.
I truly do not understand why you are upset. You explained it to me in the email & you have posted your opinions on the forum. Still does not make sense to me. There is a poll up to get feedback from the users of the site as to how they would like the forums to be structured. I am sure when the results are in there will be some changes made. It appears that many (16 out of 20) want just about everything NFL related left in the Bearstalk forum 8 wanting the NFL forum closed entirely.Which is a good sign from my point of view. However, when I first brought up the subject, I was pretty easy going about it and explained that the change was NOT the way we did things at Bearstalk:
Hey Balta, you're a little quick on the trigger there. Those of us that came over from Bearstalk aren't used to other forums because everything NFL related is automatically Bear related. I for one have zero interest in using or reading other forums. If it's mildly Bear related, you should really leave it when it's posted here IMO. I bookmark this specific forum and come directly here. Period. I don't like multiple forums.And the response admitted that the NFL forum isn't being used, but instead of ceasing and desisting until it could be discussed, the answer was to CONTINUE to move things around. There was no "I didn't realize this would bother folks so much, let's figure it out as a board together and I'll stop doing it until it's figured out." The answer was:
Unfortunately, this forum has been pretty darn dead. So at least for now, I'm going to try to keep signings that don't involve the Bears explicitly moved in here. It's perfectly ok to discuss the Bears here, but it's wroth a little effort to try to keep this forum moving and to keep stuff surviving on the front page of the Bears forumOr in other words, "I really don't give a crap what other people think and I'm going to do what I damn well please whether it upsets anyone or not."
So if you feel disrespected because I did not take time to interrupt my hectic schedule to delete your article, I do not apologize. I did the best I could for you. If you feel slighted because an admin promised you a poll in 2 hrs and it took 12, well, maybe that admin had good reason. The main thing is he did what he said, he posted a poll. It wasn't until recent that anyone really raised much objection. It was clearly time to get feedback. We are getting it. Adjustments will be made if warranted. ALL admins do care about what our posters opinions.I didn't feel disrespected because of your actions (or inactions) Pix, I felt disrespected because it took DAYS for my request for my Salary Cap article to be deleted to be executed. If the other admins know how to move threads, I'm quite certain that they can figure out how to delete a thread. I have no problem with you because you haven't been around, posting in other threads, and blatantly ignoring my request.
You want respect. Well so do I. Everyone here does. Most everyone here shows respect for each other. We are a community as nfo said, or a family as I have always referred to the forum. If you do not feel that way then you are missing out on something special. I feel sorry for you.Well I used to feel that way. However being totally blown off when I point out that changes are being made without consulting the members at large changed that. What it comes down to is quite simply (and perhaps overdramatically) is government without representation. Things have been done one way from day 1 here: Everything in 1 forum. Then an admin that I don't know starts moving threads which is a CHANGE in how things are done. Members from Bearstalk start saying stuff that it's a change and that we don't like it, AND THE GUY CONTINUES TO DO IT THAT WAY ANYWAY. If I hadn't gotten upset about this, would there have even BEEN a board discussion? I doubt it and that's the root of the problem. I understand that merging two different boards will take patience on both sides, but do the folks from the other board realize that too? Apparently NOT by their actions. They just do whatever they want and our opinions apparently don't matter until someone gets pissed off.
I will not get into the reasons for the move or the details involved. I have gone into that before. I will say that no one was lied to. No one was misled. If there was any misrepresentation I assure you it was unintentional. The move was absolutely necessary. Many made it over. Most decided they liked it enough to stay and give it a try. Some did not like it and left. I hope you stay. It's your choice.Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I never said that you guys lied to us. I'm suggesting that the imminence of the problem was overstated by the folks that ran the other board. The fact that it's still there and functional proves that to be the case.
As for me staying, we'll see how it goes. You've taken a step in the right direction Pix by doing what I asked where others didn't. There are other admins that I'm not familiiar with that are going to have to do something to earn my respect back. Nothing too drastic or formal is required. Something along the lines of recognizing that making arbitrary decisions without discussing them as a board is wrong, and actually following through on reasonable user requests instead of ignoring them would be a great start. I would've been happy with an email along the lines of "Hey LT - I didn't mean to piss you off so much. I don't feel comfotable deleting your thread until I talk the situation over with the other admins - and I'm currently waiting for them to get back to me." At least then I wouldn't have felt completely blown off.
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WTF,
The simple fact this discussion thread was created is in itself a sign of respect for all posters. If mods and admins were as disrespectful as you make out, they would make changes and when someone would complain, simply reply w/ a "F U". They cared enough to seek out opinions. I am not sure how you leap from that to disrespect.
Nfo - you're walking into the middle of this. This first started getting discussed on the 11th. The response from Balta was that he was going to keep doing things the way he saw fit and the complaints were swept under the rug. It continued until the 13th when I said that there should be a poll. Balta said he would post one in a couple hours at 11:30am with condescension that they didn't want to lose me as a poster just because a few threads got moved. As I tried to explain, it's a far more complicated issue than a few threads getting moved. However, my thoughts and feelings were completely minimized. I also requested at that time that my salary cap thread be deleted. I also reiterated that point in emails to DBDB and Pixote too. The poll wasn't posted in a couple of hours, it was nearly 12 hours later. If they have time to be an admin and move threads around, it shouldn't take 12 hours to get a simple poll posted. And to top it all off, my salary cap thread is still there and intact.
You talk about how mods are moving things around, or doing things that were resolved at the old forum. I think you have too soon forgotten some of the many fights. I recall near death threats when a thread would be locked. The Mod would say it was due to too many posts and too confusing to follow, while some other posters would point fingers at the mod saying it was done to avoid further fights, or saying it was because the mod was on the losing end of fights. There were times when a thread would just disappear, which the mod would say was an innocent mistake, while some ruffled feathers poster would talk of conspiracy. We had plenty of fights. Are we having some similar discussion here? Sure. At the same time, I would simply point out the mods/admins are making an effort to work w/ the posters. They are not simply handing down the law, but asking for opinion.I haven't forgotten those arguments. I remember them clearly and see no reason to have to relive them. As for the asking for opinion, it's too little to late for me. They are only asking for opinions because they realize that they have to. I get the impression that there are a core of posters that were here before us that are getting consulted behind the scenes. There should be no behind the scenes. It should all be out front and in the open. If not, then we should move to a board where that's how things are.
Regarding our hasty exit from the old board, yes it was hasty, but as I recalll, there were reasons for such haste. Frankly, I do not recall the specifics. Those who ran the old board can talk in far greater detail. I can say I knew we were being merged w/ an existing board. That was not a secret. At the same time, there were other issues, including a dislike by most of the posters toward that board. The disrespect you talk of today was truly seen then. The "to-be" board basically said, "this is how it is" and if you don't like it, take a hike.Yes, but they also said our old board would be available if we wanted to stay there for awhile. In fact it's still there if you click on the "Bearstalk DC Forum" link. It's still there and it still works. I just created a new testing thread there.
Regarding number of posts. Hey, I put my numbers up there w/ most. On the bearstalk board, as I recall, my number of posts were higher than any. Any while some will argue they lost posts in changes, I would simply argue I lost many thousand posts when I was forced to seek a new board. I believe it was at the Trib I used to post, prior to it going down the tubes. Point is, so what. I was a newbie when I came over from the Trib, but (a) quickly made my mark, IMHO and (
recognized some posters from the Trib who gave me early on respect as well.That is really irrelevant. I was bringing it up only to point out that we are joining an established board here. When we moved, I was under the impression that we were moving to a shiny new board and that everyone would be starting from scratch together. It's just another instance of being misled. I'm not saying it was intentional, just that the hurry left us with an uninformed decision making process.
Here at this new site, there are some new names, but a lot of old ones as well. What, do you think when you post, no one knows who you are? Do you think when you break down salary cap info, it is taken w/ a grain of salt? I just do not understand why your panties are in a wad. You are known here, and given props. The admins do not disrespect us by asking for our opinions. The opposite in fact is true. There may be tweaks I would like to see on this board, but nothing major. Nothing that makes me consider taking off.My anger and frustration ARE disproportionate to the moving of a few threads. However, it's a collection of a whole bunch of other stuff too. At the very least, I HAVE been disrespected in that I've asked for my salary cap stuff to be removed for several days now and nobody has done it yet. I have a new version that is ready to post and if I like the outcome of this process, I will post it. However, under NO circumstances am I posting the new one until the old one is removed. AND THEY HAVEN"T REMOVED THE OLD ONE AFTER REPEATED REQUESTS.
So w/ all that said, one final point. Main reason I made the jump (from the other board) was I like who I talk bears w/. We can talk about the mods and admins all day, but it is also much about the posters. We have a great group w/ kool-aid drinkers and nay-sayers who always provide a good debate. W/ a few minor exceptions, everyone keeps it VERY respectful, and no one gets too personal. Admins keep out the trolls, but quality posters keep the boards fun and enjoyable. I the community means that little to you, I don't see the point in argument.Most here are here for the community. What are you here for? Respect?
Respect should be a given in my book. If I can't control the fate of my own work, there is no community to speak of.
So, let me ask you Nfo, is it reasonable for me to expect that the work that I put hours into and allowed to be posted here for free should be deleted if I request it?
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Personally I think that any thread which involves a player or position the Bears have as a need, should be in the Bears forum. Basically put, if someone believes something is Bears related and throws it in the Bears forum it should be there.
However, I do think we should have an NFL forum, but that such forum should be for completely unrelated things, such as the Vikings signing some random QB or the Patriots doing something. Hell, a perfect example would be the Falcons trading DeAngelo Hall to the Raiders.
Bottom line, I think for 99.9% of the time, the posters who make the post should know whether they believe something is Bears related or not. For example, something on Mendenhall and the Lions would be a Bears worthy news considering how many of us on here believe the Bears should consider Mendenhall (therefor, I believe it is Bears worthy, regardless of whether Mendenhall has actually been tied to the Bears).
Hell, Fitzgerald was never tied to the Bears, but I know on multiple ocassions I indicated that I would give him the largest contract in NFL history for a WR if there was any way the Bears could have gotten him.
I, for one, don't understand why we even need to have this discussion. I think that a major part of the problem is that Bearstalk left the site where they were too hastily to join another board.
All of these options of how a board should be run were argued and discussed ad nauseum on the Bearstalk board. We ended up with a structure of a main forum for everything NFL related, a forum for college football, and a forum for off topic stuff. That was it. That was what we wanted. That was how we did things.
Now back to leaving the other site too hastily. Back in December at Bearstalk, we were led to believe that our current site was about to no longer be available very quickly. Because of that, there was very little discussion and we suddenly found a new home here. I for one, wasn't aware at first, that we would be merging with another board. That came as a surprise and I let it go. Then later came the realization that we weren't just merging with another board, but that we were joining another board that already exists on their turf. I figured that everything would be alright as long as things went on as before. Never mind that I'm member #2,585 when I've been around through at least 4 different sets of board software on the old board and have probably well over 10,000 posts that I'm not getting credit for. You look at my stats here and I look like a freakin newbie.
Well guess what. We're now at a point where we have to take steps backwards and argue all over again for what we already had. The fact that stuff started getting arbitrarily moved to other forums without any board discussion in the first place tells me that the current mods have no respect for our history or our desires and I honestly don't see how that's ever going to change. The current board isn't just a Bears board. They discuss other sports in other forums too. That's specifically the kind of board I generally stay away from and this multiple forumness is only one part of it. I've been letting a lot of stuff slide but this is the final straw.
Obviously everyone is welcome to do what they want, but seeing how the current admins either have no knowledge of our history, or are admins from Bearstalk that are ineffectual because this sort of stuff isn't discussed between admins before arbitrary action is taken. I think that this is disrespectful to the former member of Bearstalk. I think the Admins and Mods from Bearstalk should get together and discuss other options for hosting Bearstalk. I'd be happy to chip in on a domain name and server space so we can setup somewhere else where we aren't considered redheaded bastard stepchildren and our opinions actually count BEFORE people start making changes and not AFTER the fact.
I no longer wish to be a part of this board. Please delete my salary cap thread. You all will have to visit other boards to read my stuff from now on.
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Give me a couple hours to get some actual work done and I will post exactly the poll you mention. I'm not certain where the best point is to draw the dividing line between what goes in the Bears forum and what goes in the NFL forum, and a good chunk of this site is adapted to rules that I'm not. I'll put a poll up in the Bears forum in a couple hours and we'll see what people think the dividing line should be.
It's not my goal here to be some sort of evil dictator forcing everyone to stay in line, just to try to keep things working smoothly for everyone. We don't want to lose you because a few threads get moved.
2 things:
1. A discussion thread posted first might make sense so that in case any opinions are changed in the course of the discussion or if the discussion helps clarify where to draw the line for voting purposes, then you don't have to post multiple polls.
2. Please delete my Salary Cap analysis thread (or at least all the info in the first post) immediately. After this discussion, I may or may not choose to post an updated one with all the recent transactions. If this isn't done soon (as in today) you can COUNT ON there never being another one.
You can't underestimate how incredibly pissed I am that this sort of heavy handed change without board discussion has taken place with a group that I have been a part of for 11 years.
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That's the problem. Everyone that came from Soxtalk is accustomed to the multiple subforums and everyone from BearsTalk is not. We just need to come to some common ground.
I can see a off topic forum making sense. I can see a fantasy football forum making sense. Having someone else determine whether our opinions on free agents regarding the Bears, is Bear related or not, is insulting.
ONE of my major issues about this change (and that is what it is because everything was in one forum until recently) is that nobody thought to consult the membership on the change. At Bearstalk, we would have discussions about everything and vote on something as important as a change like this. An arbitrary structural change like this sends a message that our opinions don't count: accept things as we do them or leave. The dismissive attitude of "you'll get used to it" certainly doesn't help matters. Guess which way I'm leaning if I feel I (and the contingent from Bearstalk) have no input?
My other major issue is simply of personal convenience. Most of what I bring to this (or any of the other 3 boards I post on) regards the salary cap and financial side of things as well as interpretation of the CBA regading eligibilty for the practice squad, injury settlements, and RFA tenders among other things. (Has anyone else here read the CBA ONCE much less many times?) If you split things into 2 forums, you're making it a pain in the ass for me by making me go to multiple places to post on the subjects that I can be most helpful with. If things are split into 2 forums, I'm not likely to bother posting here at all because it's such a pain in the ass.
So, in conclusion, this is a crossroads for me. If posting here takes too much of my valuable time due to these structural changes for me to continue, I will be sad because DaBearsShrine which evolved into Bearstalk which has now evolved into TalkBears was the first message board I ever joined back in 1997. I understand that things change, but the combination of not having a voice anymore and the board turning into a pain in the ass to post at, will cause me to leave.
I almost posted a poll on the main board to get everyone's opinion on the subject, but didn't for 2 reasons:
1. I'm not an admin and it would be inappropriate for me to usurp that position.
2. It would probably get moved to the off-topic forum and never get seen by anyone anyway so why bother
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I am surprised moving a single thread has generated so much strife. I barely see that as "moderating". I could see if Balta was editing posts or deleting them, but moving a thread does not seem like a big deal. I guess it is a matter of personal preference.
It boils down to the forums and how they are used. I posted the same thing in the sticky thread. If we are going to have subforums, we need to use them. If we don't want or need them, we should remove them and only have the main forum. Right now we are in the middle and things like this will continue to occur.
I think you should remove the subforums. EVERYthing NFL related is Bears related. The Scott signing is a perfect example. Many thought he would be a good prospect for the Bears to sign even if he is a RG and they don't understand the difference between RG and LG. That MAKES it Bear related. Same goes for the Fitzgerald extension. Some folks wanted us to trade for him, but when you banish it over here, it doesn't get discussed at all.
If you don't understand the "strife", it's all about change. We did things a particular way on the other board and now you're changing things around. Honestly, if THIS board is going to make things a pain in the ass by using multiple forums, then count me out.
If you're going to insist on this stupid use of multiple forums, let's start an NFL Salary Cap forum and post my Salary Cap analysis over there. It'll make it easier for me to answer salary cap questions so make it happen or delete it.
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I think you should just leave everything NFL in the main forum. I don't like the idea of having to flip between forums just to see how someone else thinks a particular topic should be catagorized. This is BS.
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This really doesn't involve the Bears at all, so this is moving to the NFL forum.
Hey Balta, you're a little quick on the trigger there. Those of us that came over from Bearstalk aren't used to other forums because everything NFL related is automatically Bear related. I for one have zero interest in using or reading other forums. If it's mildly Bear related, you should really leave it when it's posted here IMO. I bookmark this specific forum and come directly here. Period. I don't like multiple forums.
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some peoples definition of success is different. you are entitled to your opinion as am i.
i can say that my definition of success is winning the superbowl and nothing else. you are either a winner or a loser and 2nd place finishes mean nothing.
LOL! Choad you crack me up! So lemmee see if I got this straight. If you're in business, and you only end up the 2nd richest man in the world, you're a loser?
What this boils down to is outdated rhetoric that coaches used to tell their HS teams. In the NFL, you can't go all out to try to do everything in your power to win the SB every year because those short term efforts end up being self defeating in the long term. Look at the Redskins as an example of how NOT to do it. Or you can look at the Giants last year as the way TO DO it. (They signed one free agent, and had significant contributions from all of their draft picks last year and won the SB)
I have a problem with the whole concept of "rebuilding" or "building for 2009" as it fits this case. I've always thought that "rebuilding" meant that you are sacrificing wins of your current team to develop key players - usually a QB. In that situation, we aren't rebuilding.
As for "building for 2009", I don't buy that either. Every year, there is going to be some turnover of players. Some players are going to be learning on the job. Also, every year, there are free agent signings that end up not working out well.
So, in this case, we will have some different starters than we had last year. I can't say that I'm incredibly confident that expensive FAs would end up playing better than guys that are already on the team and getting a chance to start, or that will be drafted this year.
Also, it has to do with evaluation and perspective. If you have one guy rated as an 8 out of 10 for your system that signs in free agency for a HUGE contract early in FA, and have another that you rate as a possible 7.6 out of 10 for your system but can be had for a modest contract after the draft, which is better for the team?
I think part of the problem is that as fans we listen to an uninformed media. They like to rank players as being definitively better than one another. For instance, different skill attributes lend themselves to different systems. So a "cover CB" is ranked as the best available, but team X runs the cover 2. If team X needs a CB, the media will project them as needing to sign the #1 ranked CB, even though the 1 on 1 coverage skills would be wasted in the cover 2 scheme. The same goes for WLB in the cover 2 which is why I think Briggs saw a limited market.
So personally, I prefer to view the offseason as a Socratic disciple, and recognize that a wise man is he that knows he knows nothing. I trust Angelo and his crew alot more than the talking heads or any fans out there.
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Last I read, it was around $23 to $23.5m. I wasn't sure as I didn't know how much of Brown's bonus was roster v SB, but the reports seem to be pretty consistent that we used up "approx" $7m of the $30m in cap w/ the new deals.
Wow you sure have the "quote" thing down now.
I really think all those numbers are estimates. The varience is actually enough to make itpossible or not.Not pinning you down, but is this a guess or based on something. I have never really known how the pool is factored. I remember a few years back that we were factoring about $3.5m, so $5m today is very possible. Just curious if you know how that works.Feel free to pin me down on this one. To figure that, I looked at teams from last year picking roughly where we are picking in the first round with the same number of total picks and added 3%. $5 million is going to be REALLY close to what it ends up being.
At the same time, it is also not inconceivable that the contract is a simple one, which could mean a cap hit closer to $3m (about $2m for bonus and $1m base).True.
Or we could have about $20m w/o rookie pool ($23m cap after re-signings and extensions minus $3m for Briggs) to compete w/ Pitt's $17m w/o rookie pool. So it is closer, w/ us ahead by a bit. At the same time, last I checked, Pitt had fewer players on their roster, and more holes to fill. By holes, I mean simple bodies, as the last I saw, they had only like 42 players that were counted in those cap numbers.It was 43 but your point is valid.
Further, I am not sure how Rothlisberger's new deal, and it was a big one, hits against their cap. I think it likely their cap went down more w/ his signing.Actually, because it's an extension, his cap hit could have gone down depending on how the contract is structured.
I still believe if this is a move we wanted to do, we could do it. At the same time, as I have said before, I wouldn't, and I don't think we will. I think Angelo is looking at our cap space for current players (Urlacher, Anderson, Gould & Hester) as opposed to making any big FA splashes.I think we could TRY, but I'm not sure that the Steelers wouldn't match. I'm not sure I buy the speculation that they wouldn't match a reasonable deal.
Oh, and I wish people would get off the "RB in the first round" bandwagon. It's NOT going to happen. Speculating on it is nothing more than mental masturbation.
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$15m before we signed Briggs. All reports I read, and I thought you supported this, showed us to be about $23m after our new deals. We started w/ around $20m, then went up to around $30m after the cuts, then back down to around $23m after new deals/extensions for Orton, Rex, Brown and Clark. Are you counting $8m for the rookie pool? That seems a bit high.
From what I have read, Pitt has about $10m in cap space, w/o factoring rookie pool.
Yes, I realize that right now, they are counting the $7m for Starks, but from what I have read, they are not looking at keeping him for that. They are not looking to use up that much cap on him alone, but tagged him in order for a market price to be set and to buy time to negotiate w/ him. If we made him an offer w/ a large roster bonus, I think we would get him. I am not saying we should, but only saying I think it is more possible that what you believe.
Understand, I am not saying we should. Frankly, I have been against signing him as I do not want to spend big on a pure RT in FA. But I think we could slap a big roster bonus to him (maybe in the $10m range) and steal him for Pitt if we wanted to. Is that a big chunk of our '08 cap space? Yes. At the same time, I do not see us being big players in FA anyway, so signing one big time player to a big roster bonus this year may be better use of the salary cap than spreading it out w/ a bunch of weaker talent players.
I think I'd read in the Suntimes that we had about $20 mil to work with before we signed Briggs. Angelo likes to use roster bonuses so I have no idea the cap hit from Briggs' contract. I'm figuring $5 mil for the rookie pool.
It's not inconceivable that Briggs gives us a $5 million cap hit this year. That would leave us with $10 million to compete with their $12 million of the Steelers (current tag + $10 mil available - rookie pool) And then we would be tapped out for FA.
I'm not suggesting we go after him either. I'm trying to show that we won't because it would cost too much.
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Hester, you seem to be having a lot of trouble w/ this issue.
Transition is a far cry from franchise in terms of tag, and Starks was transitioned. If we wanted him, frankly, it would not be that difficult to steal him. If Pitt was loaded w/ cap space, it may be difficult, but as they are not, it would not.
It would be tougher than you think. I'm pretty sure the league has, behind closed doors, put the kibosh on the type of BS terms that netted the Vikes Hutchinson. It would have to be done legitimately by out spending them.
As for how much cap space they have, you have to remember that they have a $6.8 mil headstart for cap space commited to him for next year. That would be a significant chunk of what we currently have left after you subtract for rookies. We were at about $15 mil before we signed Briggs.
It really wouldn't be that simple to get him, and if we did, that would probably be it for free agency.
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It's pretty sad when your best receiver is Greg Olsen.
No, i'm not hating on G-Reg. I love the guy. But, it shows you how clueless JA has become.
I didn't realize the free agency and trading period had ended already.
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In my opinion, JA's job is on thin ice.
Ok. So that and $4 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
Lovie is under contract through 2011 and Angelo is under contract through 2013.
Neither are going anywhere until 2010/2012 respectively.
I just have to laugh at people who think that anything going on right now has ANYTHING to do with either Lovie's or JA's job security.
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Guess JA wants no WR's at this point.
I'm fed up with him.
Why? Because he doesn't want to overpay for crap?
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I am, also. What a waste this year has been, eh?
LMAO!
Poor baby... awwwwwwww It's your own damn fault for having unrealistic expectations. Everything in the media said we were going to try to sign our own guys first. What's happened? Exactly that. 2 days does not an offseason make.
And to answer the original question, I think T Jones was the last guy we signed early in FA.
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Wanna bet. Looking at what WRs have gotten so far, I think Hackett will get more than what you are showing here.
Well, I didn't add in the incentives. The incentives would put it in the $5 mil per year range. I suppose the guaranteed money might het a bit higher.
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Damn LT, I read those Hackett stats & I'm a fan! We should break the bank for him! That's how this free agency stuff works. You start to think about what a guy might possibly do for your team, and GM's start over-paying, and fans start getting pissed. My guess is that there's not much of a difference between Hackett & Berrian. But Berrian had more of an opportunity, put up better numbers, and thus got the bigger contract.
If Greg Olsen can develop into a prime-time player this season, our offensive will be a bit brighter.
I don't think we'd need to break the bank. We could probably get him for 3 yrs $10 mil with $3 mil guaranteed + incentives.
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Johnson reportedly is about to sign with Buffalo. DJ Hackett could be productive, but I think he'd do better as a number 2 or 3. Not to mention he's coming out of a system that is fairly WR favorable. Outisde of a trade I don't think there is anything the Bears could do at this point to have a solid passing game next year. You can call it angst, but with a new O-line, shaky QBs and a mess at WR, DJ Hackett and a rookie isn't going to turn our passing game into something d-coordinators worry about.
So, your position is that no matter who they sign or draft, that our passing game is screwed right? Then what's the point in getting anxiety ridden to the point of swearing?
I've heard that the Johnson to Buffalo rumor is just that - a rumor. As for Hackett, I really don't look at past production (which isn't all that great for him anyway) as a predictor. There are WAY too many variables involved like number of opportunities etc. to judge a guy with 14 starts over 3 seasons no matter what offense the team he's on runs. What's important to me is that he's 6'2" 208# and FAST. It also doesn't hurt IMO that in 2006 (the last year he played) he was ranked 2nd in the league for value per play and 15th out of 82 for total value by football outsiders.
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Earth to JA we need some freakin WR's!!!!!!!
What's the hurry and why all the angst? We only need one in FA and Hackett and Johnson are still available. Those are the only 2 that might remotely be worth signing this early in FA. The only guy other than Berrian that I would be remotely interested in who has signed already is Wilford and he signed on day 1 of free agency.
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This has become a joke with JA and FA.
I think the joke is all the impatient fans that would feel better about overpaying for mediocre talent just because it's early in free agency.
Where did LT's Cap Analysis go???
in Bearstalk
Posted
You didn't receive any emails on the issue because I couldn't remember your email address. It might actually be in my address book and I didn't tag it for Bearstalk. That being said, maybe we could somehow setup a distribution list as an email address for complaints or whatnot for admins. Or a complaint PM address that all the admins get an email from. I know how to do it as an Exchange admin, but not on a message board. Just a thought........