Lucky Luciano
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Posts posted by Lucky Luciano
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here's the deal....
if we keep fields because he 'could' be good we are gambling this franchises future for the next five plus YEARS. that means we would have another complete rebuild in that time frame, but probably....
1. no top of round #1 pick to even GET a qb of that quality. we would have to trade the moon to pull off moving up that far if it was even POSSIBLE.
2. many and/or all of the current high quality players will be gone or want mega buck contracts. so figure most of those blue chip players are GONE and need to be drafted or replaced. where is that capital coming from?
3. if we fail in that time period do we go with new coaches/gm yet again? so there is another window of years to find their groove. although i will say i think poles biggest mistake so far is keeping flus. i would have had no really big problem if poles did this right. but giving flus the keys to the car to call and implement his defensive philosophy over another DC we don't even have coming in just smacks of typical bear franchise moves from mikey to george. in other words idiotic.
IF fields was a constant, and meaning he showed consistent abilities every really good qb needs, then that would have been a whole different scenario. but it is NOT.
i don't care WHAT the rest of the team looks like. he has had 3 years in the NFL to show what skills he has even behind poor talent. he has not done that. his abilities to read the field in a 3D model in fractions of a second just does not exist with any consistency.
he is NOT like maholmes who shows it nearly every game even when his offensive talent and receiving corp which has been atrocious with drops and poor routes. so that comparison to me is ludicrous.
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27 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:
Looking back at Aikman, he got murdered his first year in the league, but the foundation was firmly being laid. Dallas did it right. They may had won 5 more Superbowls if Jerry's ego didn't get in the way.
We ruined Justin. Time to move on.
aikman was the cowboys actual #1 pick but the walker trade was an insane amount of draft capital to give up for a runningback. that put them in the drivers seat for talent.
that said, it showed exactly what the top priority should be if you have that much draft capital. without the aikman pick the rest of the talent they picked up in my opinion wouldn't have won them three superbowl rings.
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19 hours ago, jason said:
The Bears would be better off trading down, stock-piling picks, and building a team like the Cowboys did with the Herschel Walker trade.
problem is... the cowboys used the #1 pick in the draft from that trade on the most important acquisition on their entire team... troy aikman, a QB.
so much for that idea
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biggest disappointment not listed?
easy. franchise management handed the 'How to run a franchise into the ground and make incredibly bad decisions' the norm' playbook to poles and warren.
Chapter 1: No matter what, keep the coaches under contract until we don't eat more than one season worth of salary no matter how bad they are.
Chapter 2: Always use the excuse that our decisions are based on player and coaching continuity and not wishing on a star.
Chapter 3: Always institute the 'Wait Until Next Year It Will All Come Together' doctrine for the suckers.
Chapter 4: If we personally like a coach or player because of his good character etc. always make excuses why he should be here whether in reality he doesn't.
Chapter 5: The bottom line is always that the ledger reads... Profits Made
Final Addendum: Add your own chapter here.
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ok, riddle me this....
how did our defensive scheme hold up against PLAYOFF teams with good + qb's?
i seem to remember they could pass at will to our soft zones. like maybe green bay has been doing for over 20 years?
how did it hold up before we had a very good defensive end to pressure the qb?
how did it hold up against playoff teams even with sweat? how did green bay counter that? QUICK passes into our zones that nobody covered. they could have beat us by 50 if they wanted to.
how did lovie smith's defense hold up against playoff teams with good + quarterbacks after he fired chico and gave the DC to his linebacker coach to mimic his defensive style and game plan?
i'm sorry but this is the same old shite we have been beaten to a pulp with for over 20 years.
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............crickets chirping.............
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11 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:
Now we hear Eberflus is going to keep calling defensive plays.
where did you hear that? if that is the case welcome to lovie's DC blunders part 2. if you handcuff a DC before you even find one good luck bringing in a high quality guy. same ole, same ole.
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2 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:
oh for sure, I was speaking of out of towners like me, I should have added that to the list. Free local broadcast with streaming option requiring no cable or antenna with commercials for regular season games.
And I also meant that there should be a streaming option for the playoffs where you dont even need cable or an antenna. From any location. And there will be commercials.agreed. you are spot on.
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47 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:
The NFL is going too far. In the future there should be one fee to pay, that doesnt require buying YouTubeTV as well or whatever, that allows you to watch any NFL game from preseason thru the end of the regular season. And then all playoff games should be available to anyone who wants to watch them, but with commercials.
And if they are decent at all, a lower fee to only watch all the games of one team.
This is getting ridiculous.you should be able to watch local teams FREE the same as it has been for over 60+ years. playoffs? FREE. superbowl? FREE.
when is enough money enough for these greedy robber barons?
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WRITE YOUR STATE AND FEDERAL CONGRESSMAN
Taxpayers are paying billions for the renovations and construction of NFL stadiums.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/22/taxpayers-are-paying-billions-for-nfl-stadiums-heres-how.html
The reason cities end up paying for stadiums begins with the issuance of tax-exempt bonds from state and local governments that the federal government has signed off on for decades.
Top 10 biggest federal subsidies for pro stadiums
In 1986, Congress tried to fix the problem and reduce or eliminate federal subsidies for stadiums. But the convoluted law, which you can read more about here, backfired, and Congress ended up unintentionally encouraging the practice.
The process works like this: When a stadium is being built, a city can sell municipal bonds to help pay for its construction, like cities often do with public works projects. But if those bonds are issued as tax-exempt bonds (meaning that the interest payments to the bond holders are not counted as taxable income), the federal government loses a large chunk of revenue that it would have collected had the interest payments been taxable. And because this is lost federal revenue, the cost is footed by all taxpayers. On top of that, wealthy citizens who hold the bonds receive an implicit tax benefit due to their relatively high marginal tax rates, costing the federal government even more revenue.
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3 minutes ago, adam said:
Yeah, my father-in-law is a Bills fan and I signed up for Peacock so he could see the Bills game a few weeks back. It was blacked out in his area and that was the only way he could see it. Then I had to walk him thru installing the App on an Amazon Fire over the phone (that was fun).
But yeah, between needing Amazon Prime, YouTubeTv, and now Peacock is getting out of hand. The playoffs should be available to everyone without needing any special subscriptions.
that is plain disgusting. it's time the fans start their own union and chop the profits out of these greedy b-stards bank accounts.
i am being totally serious, if this continues as pay-per-view nonsense out of the NFL i will just stop watching it and buying any of their products. i did it for MLB and college football (and i was an avid fan of both) and i can surely do it for the NFL.
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i have seen this day coming for a long, long time. the freaking NFL wants you to pay to watch it's product. through DTV, ESPN, NFL Channel, Amazon Prime and NOW they are charging you (if you want to watch it) to see the playoffs on PEACOCK TV. i guess they don't make enough money or have enough government taxpayer funded subsidiaries or tax breaks. now they they want to bleed the general public to squeeze the last dime out of your pocket.
MLB did it (i stopped watching that mess in the 90's) and the normal non-subscribed to premium television viewers can't even watch the playoffs. then college football did it (i stopped watching that also) by putting your LOCAL team on the BIG 10 Network (another premium subscribe and pay to watch cable crap network) and making most of the bowl games a pay by cable subscription. NOW they are doing it with the NFL.
well I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!
i wrote a letter of complaint to the NFL to where i THINK it will go to those greedy B@$tards as follows. if you care you should also and write to them and your congressman.
The Monday Night Football on ESPN, followed by the NFL Thursday Night Football on the NFL Channel, Amazon Prime Football, and now the freaking PLAYOFFS on a subscription to Peacock Channel?????
Just how greedy are you people? The playoffs should NEVER be in a pay subscription format (for that matter ANY local NFL games, normally on your over the air local tv stations, should NEVER be either!).
I can tell you without ANY reservations that if this continues I will never watch NFL games again and find something else to waste my time and MONEY on Sunday, Monday and Thursday's. You can ALSO forget any royalties from NFL merchandise I will stop buying.
I am also curious as to what TAX breaks and incentives the NFL enjoys at the TAX PAYERS expense? Maybe that needs to change right?
Get a freaking grip people.
Claimed Loss:
The ability to watch the NFL on my local, over the air, tv stations.
Desired Outcome:
STOP trying to rob your fans or LOSE them. Go back to how it should be where ALL games are free to the general public!!!
Complaint Registration Form
Quick guide to writing an effective complaint
National Football League [NFL]https://www.complaintsboard.com/new_complain
i tried to find a place to email GOD-HELL but with no luck. also ever notice there is no place to complain or voice your concerns on the NFL's own website? hmmmm, i wonder why?
so F%$#Ck GOD-HELL and F%$#Ck The NFL!!!!!!!!
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BearFan PHX
it does seem like we keep making the same mistakes over and over. Its new people trying it, but we have no organizational memory.
for years not only have we basically given our defensive playbook to our division rivals who play us twice a year, but to the entire nfl. they have seen it here since lovie smith became head coach and back in the 90's before that. it is the same defensive design with a few twists and variations.
they beat our soft zone with quick release 8-10 yd. routes (which they also utilize the 5 yd chuck rule). many times we have not a soul in sight when the catch is made as most of our db's are past the first down marker. they do this a lot if not all game.
at best, we possibly choke it to a field goal once they reach the red zone because the field is more condensed. it's large amounts of yardage to create first downs, create riding time (OUR offense is on the sideline) and move the sticks.
even if we had reggie white on one side and richard dent on the other there just isn't enough time to get to the qb on these quick routes. favre and rogers have made a living on us for over 20 years doing this yet we keep plodding on with de ja' vue all over again.
add to this a mixup of running plays, crossing routes and deep routes we are forever on our heels.
basically they know what defense we will run on each play by the formation and player inserts.
How many OC's have come in thinking the WR screen was gonna be our thing? Over and over they try the same things, they don't look at film from the previous coaches. As an organization, we don't learn.since trestman or before? how many times can you run the same designed play over a course of 20 years and expect to fool anyone?
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didn't we go through all of this with lovie's defense?
this is the same crap that has been figured out for 2 decades. i cringe and slap myself in the head every time i see this soft zone crap give up first down after first down. there is a place for zone and cover 2 in a game but certainly not how we have used it for over 10 years! enough is enough.
also, how are we going to hire a quality D co-ordinator with flus here when they will be expected to run the same defensive concept? it's the SAME OLD SAME OLD we did with lovie when he pushed rivera out. flus is a lame duck coach and what assistant coach is coming here, defensive or offensive, with that on the block?
just get rid of this mess if we can find anyone competent.
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Just now, BearFan PHX said:
we are slotted at 9 now.
this is a god awful franchise. now we can start all over again.
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the only good thing in the LEAST is i am hoping we get a better draft pick with our pick. where does it stand now adam?
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Just now, adam said:
For how bad we felt the defense played, they only allowed 17 pts.
the riding time negates that stat
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this is garbage. it's so bad you don't even know where to begin.
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i would trade fields for tomlin in a new york minute. this guy is a very good coach and i can't even think of one being better including belicheck or hard head.
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3 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:
Quick math correction. It's actually 43.5% better chance to be a quality pick in the top 10 vs 10-20.
thanks, i really suck at math unfortunately. feel free to correct anything that is wrong.
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i posted the information in these draft pick comparisons over 15 years ago but they still can help in determining the quality of the NFL draft and where you pick. It is a very intensive time consuming effort I published on this board and on the previous Bears board. The data was compilied up until 2007. So take it for what it's worth (or disregard it if you please)..........
================================================================================
2012
below are some statistics i compiled for the old board about 8 years ago and i have updated the information to date, 2012. it lists all players drafted in slots 1-20 in the first round and how they compare to obtaining a quality player drafting in these slots.feel free if you wish to copy this information for your own records but please acknowledge where you got them from as it was an incredible amount of work putting this together.
thanks,
Lucky Luciano
my conclusions after looking at the statistics below i know i am not so sure i wouldn't consider trading up EVERY year into the top 10 if you want the odds on your side with selecting a quality player.
below are some interesting facts:
1) over a 29 year period there were 580 picks in slots 1-20
2) 134 were quality picks in slots 1-10 or 23% of the players picked
3) 77 were quality picks in slots 11-20 or 13% of the players picked
4) that makes it a 43.5% (edit per Mongo3451) better chance to land a better player in slots 1-10 than 11-20 in the first round.the data below reads as follows:
YEAR - NUMBER OF PLAYERS FROM PICKS 1-10 - NUMBER OF PLAYERS FROM PICKS 11-201979 - 6 - 1
1980 - 5 - 3
1981 - 7 - 2
1982 - 5 - 2
1983 - 8 - 2
1984 - 3 - 3 *
1985 - 7 - 2
1986 - 4 - 1
1987 - 5 - 1
1988 - 6 - 7 **
1989 - 4 - 1
1990 - 4 - 3
1991 - 3 - 0
1992 - 3 - 3 *
1993 - 5 - 1
1994 - 5 - 4
1995 - 4 - 5 **
1996 - 5 - 2
1997 - 5 - 3
1998 - 2 - 3 **
1999 - 7 - 2
2000 - 4 - 6 **
2001 - 5 - 3
2002 - 3 - 3 *
2003 - 7 - 2
2004 - 5 - 4
2005 - 1 - 4 **
2006 - 3 - 2
2007 - 3 - 2TOTAL 134 - 77
21 out of 29 times there were MORE quality players selected 1-10 than in slots 11-20.
*3 times they were even
**only 5 times in 29 years were there more pro bowl/all-pro players picked in slots 11-20.i used data for 29 years from 1979 to 2007 inclusive. i did not go further than 2007 as the time frame would be not be long enough to determine any significant figures. over time some of these figures will change and have to be adjusted.
i also am using figures from picks 1-20 in the first round only to determine the value of drafting in the top 10 as compared to picking in the next 10 slots. although i haven't tallied up the differences in slots 21-32 i believe the numbers would be considerably lower. anyone who feels like doing the work is welcome to dispute that statement.
i went through an incredible amount of data to get these stats. all data was figured from players who had at LEAST two forms of award. EXAMPLE.. a player that had 1 pro bowl and 1 all-pro made the list, a player that was selected for 2 pro-bowls made the list, a player who was selected as all-pro (or all-nfl) twice made the list, and multiples of the above.
im no math expert by any means and if anyone see's any errors post them and/or i will post the players along with data. any who want can do the math on their own as it is possible i missed someone or added one by mistake. if you find any that dont jive let me know.
===========listed below are the players that i used for the stats above from 1979 - 2007.
how long did this take to compile this data you ask? days!
ap = ALL-PRO
pb = PRO BOWL
>> << BRACKETS ARE IMPACT PLAYERS WITH MULTIPLE PRO-BOWL OR ALL-PRO STATUS.1979 - 6 - 1 - top 5 = 3
>> 1 Tom Cousineau Bills LB Ohio State - 2 ap >>
2 Mike Bell Chiefs DE Colorado State
3 Jack Thompson Bengals QB Washington State
>> 4 Dan Hampton Bears DT Arkansas - 4 pb - 1 ap<<
>> 5 Jerry Butler Bills WR Clemson - 1 pb - 1 ap<<
6 Barry Krauss Colts LB Alabama
>> 7 Phil Simms Giants QB Morehead State - 2 pb - 1 ap<<
>> 8 Ottis Anderson Cardinals RB Miami (FL) - 2 pb - 2 ap<<
9 Al Harris Bears DE Arizona State
>> 10 Keith Dorney Lions T Penn State - 1 pb - 2 ap<<
--------------------------------------------------
11 Russell Erxleben Saints K Texas
12 Charles Alexander Bengals RB LSU
>> 13 Kellen Winslow Chargers TE Missouri - 5 pb - 3 ap<<
14 Marty Lyons Jets DE Alabama
15 Eddie Lee Ivery Packers RB Georgia Tech
16 Ted Brown Vikings RB North Carolina State
17 Don Smith Falcons DE Miami (FL) - 1 ap
18 Manu Tuiasosopo Seahawks DT UCLA
19 George Andrews Rams LB Nebraska
20 Willis Adams Browns WR Houston
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1980 - 5 - 3 - top 5 = 2
>> 1 Billy Sims Lions RB Oklahoma - 2 pb - 2 ap<<
2 Lam Jones Jets WR Texas
>> 3 Anthony Munoz Bengals T USC - 10 pb - 11 ap<<
4 Bruce Clark Packers DT Penn State - 1 pb
5 Curtis Dickey Colts RB Texas A&M
6 Curtis Greer Cardinals DE Michigan - 1 ap
>> 7 Junior Miller Falcons TE Nebraska - 2 pb<<
>> 8 Mark Haynes Giants DB Colorado - 3pb - 5 ap<<
9 Doug Martin Vikings DT Washington
>> 10 Jacob Green Seahawks DE Texas A&M- 2ap - 4 ap<<
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11 Brad Budde Chiefs G USC
12 Stan Brock Saints T Colorado
13 Earl Cooper 49ers RB Rice
14 Roland James Patriots DB Tennessee - 1 ap
15 Marc Wilson Raiders QB Brigham Young
>> 16 Jim Ritcher Bills C North Carolina State - 2 pb - 2 ap<<
17 Johnnie Johnson Rams DB Texas - 1 ap
>> 18 Art Monk Redskins WR Syracuse - 3 pb - 3 ap<<
>> 19 Otis Wilson Bears LB Louisville - 1 pb - 2 ap <<
20 Jim Stuckey 49ers DT Clemson
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1981 - 7 - 2 - top 5 = 5
>> 1 George Rogers Saints RB South Carolina - 2 pb - 2 ap<<
>> 2 Lawrence Taylor Giants LB North Carolina - 10 pb - 8 ap<<
>> 3 Freeman McNeil Jets RB UCLA - 3 pb - 3 ap<<
>> 4 Kenny Easley Seahawks DB UCLA - 5 pb - 5 ap<<
>> 5 E.J. Junior Cardinals LB Alabama - 2 pb - 2 ap<<
6 Rich Campbell Packers QB California
>> 7 Hugh Green Buccaneers LB Pittsburgh - 2 pb - 2 ap<<
>> 8 Ronnie Lott 49ers DB USC - 10 pb - 6 ap<<
9 Mel Owens Rams LB Michigan
10 David Verser Bengals WR Kansas
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11 Keith Van Horne Bears T USC
12 Randy McMillan Colts RB Pittsburgh
13 David Overstreet Dolphins RB Oklahoma
14 Willie Scott Chiefs TE South Carolina
>> 15 Dennis Smith Broncos DB USC - 6 pb<<
16 Mark Nichols Lions WR San Jose State
17 Keith Gary Steelers DE Oklahoma
18 Donnell Thompson Colts DT North Carolina
>> 19 Brian Holloway Patriots T Stanford - 3 pb - 3 ap<<
20 Mark May Redskins T Pittsburgh - 1 ap
============================================
1982 - 5 - 2 - top 5 = 2
1 Kenneth Sims Patriots DT Texas
2 Johnie Cooks Colts LB Mississippi State
>> 3 Chip Banks Browns LB USC - 4 pb - 4 ap<<
4 Art Schlichter Colts QB Ohio State
>> 5 Jim McMahon Bears QB Brigham Young - 1 pb - 1 ap<<
6 Jeff Bryant Seahawks DE Clemson - 1 ap
7 Darrin Nelson Vikings RB Stanford
>> 8 Mike Munchak Oilers G Penn State - 9 pb - 2 ap<<
>> 9 Gerald Riggs Falcons RB Arizona State - 3 pb - 2 ap<<
>> 10 Marcus Allen Raiders RB USC - 5 pb - 2 ap<<
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11 Anthony Hancock Chiefs WR Tennessee
12 Walter Abercrombie Steelers RB Baylor
13 Lindsay Scott Saints WR Georgia
14 Barry Redden Rams RB Richmond
15 Jimmy Williams Lions LB Nebraska
>> 16 Luis Sharpe Cardinals T UCLA - 3 pb - 4 ap<<
17 Sean Farrell Buccaneers G Penn State - 1 ap
18 Butch Woolfork Giants RB Michigan
19 Perry Tuttle Bills WR Clemson
>> 20 Mike Quick Eagles WR North Carolina State - 5 pb - 4 ap<<
====================================
1983 - 8 - 2 - top 5 = 5
>> 1 John Elway Colts QB Stanford - 9 pb<<
>> 2 Eric Dickerson Rams RB SMU - 5 pb - 4 ap<<
>> 3 Curt Warner Seahawks RB Penn State - 3 pb - 4 ap<<
>> 4 Chris Hinton Broncos T Northwestern - 7 pb - 1 ap<<
>> 5 Billy Ray Smith Chargers LB Arkansas - 3 ap<<
>> 6 Jimbo Covert Bears T Pittsburgh - 2 pb - 2 ap<<
7 Todd Blackledge Chiefs QB Penn State
8 Michael Haddix Eagles RB Mississippi State
>> 9 Bruce Matthews Oilers G USC - 14 pb - 7 ap<<
>> 10 Terry Kinard Giants DB Clemson - 1 pb - 1 ap<<
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11 Tim Lewis Packers DB Pittsburgh - 1 ap
12 Tony Hunter Bills TE Notre Dame
13 James Jones Lions RB Florida -
>> 14 Jim Kelly Bills QB Miami (FL) 5 pb - 1 ap<<
15 Tony Eason Patriots QB Illinois
16 Mike Pitts Falcons DE Alabama
17 Leonard Smith Cardinals DB McNeese State 1 ap
18 Willie Gualt Bears WR Tennessee
>> 19 Joey Browner Vikings DB USC - 6 pb - 5 ap<<
20 Gary Anderson Chargers RB Arkansas - 1 pb
================================
1984 - 3 - 3 - top 5 = 3
>> 1 Irving Fryar Patriots WR Nebraska - 5 pb - 1 ap<<
2 Dean Steinkuhler Oilers T Nebraska
>> 3 Carl Banks Giants LB Michigan State - 1 pb - 1 ap<<
4 Kenny Jackson Eagles WR Penn State
>> 5 Bill Maas Chiefs DT Pittsburgh - 2 ap<<
6 Mossy Cade Chargers DB Texas
7 Ricky Hunley Bengals LB Arizona
8 Leonard Coleman Colts DB Vanderbilt
9 Rick Bryan Falcons DT Oklahoma - 1 ap
10 Russell Carter Jets DB SMU
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>> 11 Wilber Marshall Bears LB Florida - 3 pb - 2 ap<<
12 Alphonso Carreker Packers DE Florida State
>> 13 Keith Millard Vikings DE Washington State - 2 pb - 4 ap<<
14 Jackie Shipp Dolphins LB Oklahoma
15 Ron Faurot Jets DE Arkansas
16 Pete Koch Bengals DE Maryland
17 Clyde Duncan Cardinals WR Tennessee
18 Don Rogers Browns DB UCLA
>> 19 Ron Solt Colts G Maryland - 1 pb - 1 ap<<
20 David Lewis Lions TE California
==========================================
1985 - 7 - 2 - top 5 = 5
>> 1 Bruce Smith Bills DE Virginia Tech 11 pb - 8 ap<<
>> 2 Bill Fralic Falcons T Pittsburgh - 4 pb - 3 ap<<
>> 3 Ray Childress Oilers DE Texas A&M - 5 pb - 6 ap<<
>> 4 Chris Doleman Vikings DE Pittsburgh - 8 pb - 4 ap<<
>> 5 Duane Bickett Colts LB USC - 1 pb - 2 ap<<
>> 6 Lomas Brown Lions T Florida - 7 pb - 6 ap<<
7 Ken Ruettgers Packers T USC
8 Ron Holmes Buccaneers DE Washington
9 Kevin Allen Eagles T Indiana
>> 10 Al Toon Jets WR Wisconsin - 3 pb - 3 ap<<
--------------------------------------------
11 Richard Johnson Oilers DB Wisconsin
>> 12 Jim Lachey Chargers T Ohio State - 3 pb - 5 ap<<
13 Eddie Brown Bengals WR Miami (FL) - 1 ap
14 Derrick Burroughs Bills DB Memphis State
15 Ethan Horton Chiefs RB North Carolina
>> 16 Jerry Rice 49ers WR Mississippi Valley State - 13 pb - 10 ap<<
17 Kevin Brooks Cowboys DE Michigan
18 Freddie Joe Nunn Cardinals DE Mississippi
19 George Adams Giants RB Kentucky
20 Darryl Sims Steelers DE Wisconsin
=======================================
1986 - 4 - 1 - top 5 = 2
>> 1 Bo Jackson Buccaneers RB Auburn - 1 pb - 2 ap<<
2 Tony Casillas Falcons DT Oklahoma - 1 ap
>> 3 Jim Everett Oilers QB Purdue - 1 pb - 2 ap<<
4 Jon Hand Colts DE Alabama
5 Anthony Bell Cardinals LB Michigan State
6 Jim Dombrowski Saints T Virginia
7 Brian Jozwiak Chiefs T West Virginia
>> 8 Leslie O'Neal Chargers DE Oklahoma State - 6 pb<<
9 John Rienstra Steelers G Temple
>> 10 Keith Byars Eagles RB Ohio State - 1 pb - 1 ap<<
------------------------------------
11 Joe Kelly Bengals LB Washington
12 Chuck Long Lions QB Iowa
13 James Fitzpatrick Chargers T USC
14 Gerald Robinson Vikings DE Auburn
15 John L. Williams Seahawks RB Florida
16 Ronnie Harmon Bills RB Iowa - 1 pb
17 Tim Green Falcons LB Syracuse
18 Mike Sherrard Cowboys WR UCLA
19 Eric Dorsey Giants DE Notre Dame
>> 20 Will Wolford Bills T Vanderbilt - 3 pb - 2 ap<<
=================================
1987 - 5 - 1 - top 5 = 2
>> 1 Vinny Testaverde Buccaneers QB Miami (FL) - 2 pb - 1 ap<<
>> 2 Cornelius Bennett Colts LB Alabama - 5 pb - 1 ap<<
3 Alonzo Highsmith Oilers RB Miami (FL)
4 Brent Fullwood Packers RB Auburn - 1 pb
5 Mike Junkin Browns LB Duke
6 Kelly Stouffer Cardinals QB Colorado State
7 Reggie Rogers Lions DE Washington
>> 8 Shane Conlan Bills LB Penn State - 3 pb - 3 ap<<
>> 9 Jerome Brown Eagles DT Miami (FL) - 2 pb - 3 ap<<
>> 10 Rod Woodson Steelers DB Purdue 11 pb - 6 ap<<
------------------------------------------------------
11 Shawn Knight Saints DT Brigham Young
12 Danny Noonan Cowboys DT Nebraska
13 Chris Miller Falcons QB Oregon - 1 pb
14 D.J. Dozier Vikings RB Penn State
15 John Clay Raiders T Missouri
16 John Bosa Dolphins DE Boston College
17 Jason Buck Bengals DE Brigham Young
18 Tony Woods Seahawks LB Pittsburgh
19 Paul Palmer Chiefs RB Temple
>> 20 Haywood Jeffires Oilers WR North Carolina State - 3 pb - 2 ap<<
=========================================
1988 - 6 - 7 - top 5 = 3
1 Aundray Bruce Falcons LB Auburn -
>> 2 Neil Smith Chiefs DE Nebraska - 6 pb - 6 ap<<
>> 3 Bennie Blades Lions DB Miami (FL) - 1 pb - 3 ap<<
>> 4 Paul Gruber Buccaneers T Wisconsin - 3 ap<<
5 Rickey Dixon Bengals DB Oklahoma
>> 6 Tim Brown Raiders WR Notre Dame - 7 + - ap +<<
>> 7 Sterling Sharpe Packers WR South Carolina - 5 pb - 5 ap<<
8 Dave Cadigan Jets T USC -
>> 9 Terry McDaniel Raiders DB Tennessee - 5 pb - 2 ap<<
10 Eric Moore Giants T Indiana
-------------------------------------
>> 11 Michael Irvin Cowboys WR Miami (FL) - + pb - + ap<<
>> 12 Ken Harvey Cardinals LB California - + pb - + ap<<
>> 13 Keith Jackson Eagles TE Oklahoma - 5 pb - 4 ap<<
>> 14 Gaston Green Rams RB UCLA - 1 pb - 1 ap
>> 15 Anthony Miller Chargers WR Tennessee - 5 pb - 3 ap<<
16 Eric Kumerow Dolphins DE Ohio State
>> 17 John Stephens Patriots RB NW Louisiana - 1 pb - 1 ap<<
18 Aaron Jones Steelers DE Eastern Kentucky -
>> 19 Randall McDaniel Vikings G Arizona State - 12 pb - 7 ap<<
20 Aaron Cox Rams WR Arizona State
=================================================
1989 - 4 -1 - top 5 = 4
>> 1 Troy Aikman Cowboys QB UCLA - 6 pb<<
2 Tony Mandarich Packers T Michigan State
>> 3 Barry Sanders Lions RB Oklahoma State - 10 pb - 5 ap<<
>> 4 Derrick Thomas Chiefs LB Alabama - 9 pb - 2 ap<<
>> 5 Deion Snaders Falcons DB Florida State 8 pb - 6 ap<<
6 Broderick Thomas Buccaneers LB Nebraska
7 Tim Worley Steelers RB Georgia
8 Burt Grossman Chargers DE Pittsburgh
9 Sammie Smith Dolphins RB Florida State
10 Eric Hill Cardinals LB LSU
---------------------------------------------
11 Donnell Woolford Bears DB Clemson - 1 pb
12 Trace Armstrong Bears DE Florida 1 pb
13 Eric Metcalf Browns RB Texas
14 Jeff Lageman Jets LB Virginia - 1 ap
15 Andy Heck Seahawks T Notre Dame - 1 ap
16 Hart Lee Dykes Patriots WR Oklahoma State
17 Joe Wolf Cardinals G Boston College
18 Brian Williams Giants C Minnesota
19 Wayne Martin Saints DE Arkansas - 1 pb
>> 20 Steve Atwater Broncos DB Arkansas - 8 pb - + ap<<
=========================================
1990 - 4 - 3 - top 5 = 2
1 Jeff George Colts QB Illinois
2 Blair Thomas Jets RB Penn State
>> 3 Cortez Kennedy Seahawks DT Miami (FL) - 7 pb - 6 ap<<
4 Keith McCants Buccaneers LB Alabama
>> 5 Junior Seau Chargers LB USC - 12 pb - 6 ap<<
>> 6 Mark Carrier Bears DB USC - 3 pb - 3 ap<<
7 Andre Ware Lions QB Houston
8 Chris Singleton Patriots LB Arizona
>> 9 Richmond Webb Dolphins T Texas A&M - 7 pb - 3 ap<<
10 Ray Agnew Patriots DE North Carolina State -
--------------------------------------------
11 Anthony Smith Raiders DE Arizona
12 James Francis Bengals LB Baylor
13 Percy Snow Chiefs LB Michigan State
>> 14 Renaldo Turnbull Saints DE West Virginia - 1 pb - 1 ap<<
>> 15 Lamar Lathon Oilers LB Houston - 1 pb - 1 ap<<
16 James Williams Bills DB Fresno State
>> 17 Emmitt Smith Cowboys RB Florida 8 pb - 4 ap<<
18 Tony Bennett Packers LB Mississippi
19 Darrell Thompson Packers RB Minnesota
20 Steve Broussard Falcons RB Washington State
==============================================
1991 - 3 - 0 - top 5 = 1
1 Russell Maryland Cowboys DT Miami (FL) - 1 pb
>> 2 Eric Turner Browns DB UCLA - 2 pb - 1 ap<<
3 Bruce Pickens Falcons DB Nebraska
4 Mike Croel Broncos LB Nebraska
5 Todd Lyght Rams DB Notre Dame - 1 pb
>> 6 Eric Swann Cardinals DE None - 2 pb - 2 ap<<
7 Charles McRae Buccaneers T Tennessee
8 Antone Davis Eagles T Tennessee
9 Stanley Richard Chargers DB Texas
>> 10 Herman Moore Lions WR Virginia - 4 pb - 3 ap<<
---------------------------------------
11 Pat Harlow Patriots T USC
12 Alvin Harper Cowboys WR Tennessee
13 Mike Pritchard Falcons WR Colorado
14 Leonard Russell Patriots RB Arizona State
15 Huey Richardson Steelers LB Florida
16 Dan McGwire Seahawks QB San Diego State
17 Bobby Wilson Redskins DT Michigan State
18 Alfred Williams Bengals LB Colorado
19 Vinnie Clark Packers DB Ohio State
20 Kelvin Pritchett Cowboys DT Mississippi
================================================
1992 - 3 - 3 - top 5 = 1
1 Steve Emtman Colts DT Washington
2 Quentin Coryatt Colts LB Texas A&M
>> 3 Sean Gilbert Rams DT Pittsburgh - 1 pb - 1 ap<<
4 Desmond Howard Redskins WR Michigan
5 Terrell Buckley Packers DB Florida State - 1 ap
6 David Klingler Bengals QB Houston
>> 7 Troy Vincent Dolphins DB Wisconsin - 5 pb - 1 ap<<
>> 8 Bob Whitfield Falcons T Stanford - 1 pb - 1 ap<<
9 Tommy Vardell Browns RB Stanford
10 Ray Roberts Seahawks T Virginia
------------------------------------------
11 Leon Searcy Steelers T Miami (FL) - 1 pb
>> 12 Marco Coleman Dolphins DE Georgia Tech - 2 pb<<
13 Eugene Chung Patriots T Virginia Tech
14 Derek Brown Giants TE Notre Dame
15 Johnny Mitchell Jets TE Nebraska
>> 16 Chester McGlockton Raiders DT Clemson - 4 pb - + ap<<
17 Kevin Smith Cowboys DB Texas A&M - 1 ap
18 Dana Hall 49ers DB Washington -
19 Troy Smith Falcons RB Southern Mississippi
>> 20 Dale Carter Chiefs DB Tennessee - 4 pb - 4 ap<<
==========================================
1993 - 5 - 1 - top 5 = 2
>> 1 Drew Bledsoe Patriots QB Washington State - 4 pb<<
2 Rick Mirer Seahawks QB Notre Dame
>> 3 Garrison Hearst Cardinals RB Georgia 2 pb<<
4 Marvin Jones Jets LB Florida State
5 John Copeland Bengals DE Alabama
6 Eric Curry Buccaneers DE Alabama
7 Curtis Conway Bears WR USC
>> 8 William Roaf Saints T Louisiana Tech - 11 pb - 3 ap<<
>>9 Lincoln Kennedy Falcons T Washington - 3 pb - 1 ap<<
>> 10 Jerome Bettis Rams RB Notre Dame - 6 pb - 2 ap<<
-------------------------------------
11 Dan Williams Broncos DE Toledo
12 Patrick Bates Raiders DB Texas A&M
>>13 Brad Hopkins Oilers T Illinois - 2 pb<<
14 Steve Everitt Browns C Michigan
15 Wayne Simmons Packers LB Clemson
16 Sean Dawkins Colts WR California
17 Tom Carter Redskins DB Notre Dame
18 Ernest Dye Cardinals T South Carolina
19 Lester Holmes Eagles G Jackson State
20 Irv Smith Saints TE Notre Dame
====================================
1994 - 5 - 4 - top 5 = 2
1 Dan Wilkinson Bengals DT Ohio State
>> 2 Marshall Faulk Colts RB San Diego State 7 pb - 3 ap<<
3 Heath Shuler Redskins QB Tennessee
>>4 Willie McGinest Patriots DE USC - 2 pb<<
5 Trev Alberts Colts LB Nebraska
6 Trent Dilfer Buccaneers QB Fresno State - 1 pb
>> 7 Bryant Young 49ers DT Notre Dame - 4 pb - 1 ap<<
>> 8 Sam Adams Seahawks DT Texas A&M - 3 pb<<
9 Antonio Langham Browns DB Alabama
>> 10 Jamir Miller Cardinals LB UCLA - 1 pb - 1 ap<<
---------------------------------
11 John Thierry Bears DE Alcorn State
>> 12 Aaron Glenn Jets DB Texas A&M - 3 pb<<
>> 13 Joe Johnson Saints DE Louisville 2 pb<<
14 Bernard Williams Eagles T Georgia
15 Wayne Gandy Rams T Auburn
16 Aaron Taylor Packers T Notre Dame
17 Charles Johnson Steelers WR Colorado
18 DeWayne Washington Vikings DB North Carolina State
>> 19 Todd Steussie Vikings T California - 2 pb<<
>> 20 Tim Bowens Dolphins DT Mississippi 2 pb<<
=========================================
1995 - 4 - 5 - top 5 = 3
1 Ki-Jana Carter Bengals RB Penn State
>> 2 Tony Boselli Jaguars T USC - 5 pb - 3 ap<<
>>3 Steve McNair Oilers QB Alcorn State - 3 pb<<
4 Michael Westbrook Redskins WR Colorado
>>5 Kerry Collins Panthers QB Penn State - 2 pb<<
>> 6 Kevin Carter Rams DE Florida - 2 pb - 1ap<<
7 Mike Mamula Eagles DE Boston College
8 Joey Galloway Seahawks WR Ohio State
9 Kyle Brady Jets TE Penn State
10 J.J. Stokes 49ers WR UCLA
--------------------------------------------
11 Derrick Alexander Vikings DE Florida State
>> 12 Warren Sapp Buccaneers DT Miami (FL) - 7 pb - 4 ap<<
>>13 Mark Fields Saints LB Washington State - 2 pb<<
>> 14 Reuben Brown Bills G Pittsburgh - 9 pb<<
15 Ellis Johnson Colts DT Florida
>> 16 Hugh Douglas Jets DE Central State (OH) - 3 pb - 1 ap<<
17 Tyrone Wheatley Giants RB Michigan
18 Napoleon Kaufman Raiders RB Washington
19 James Stewart Jaguars RB Tennessee
>> 20 Luther Elliss Lions DE Utah - 2 pb<<
==========================================
1996 - 5 - 2 - top 5 = 4
>> 1 Keyshawn Johnson Jets WR USC - 3 pb<<
>> 2 Kevin Hardy Jaguars LB Illinois - 1 pb - 1 ap<<
>> 3 Simeon Rice Cardinals DE Illinois - 3 pb 1 ap<<
>> 4 Jonathan Ogden Ravens T UCLA - 11 pb - 4 ap<<
5 Cedric Jones Giants DE Oklahoma
6 Lawrence Phillips Rams RB Nebraska
7 Terry Glenn Patriots WR Ohio State - 1 pb
8 Tim Biakabutuka Panthers RB Michigan
9 Rickey Dudley Raiders TE Ohio State
>>10 Willie Anderson Bengals T Auburn - 4 pb - 3 ap<<
-----------------------------------------
11 Alex Molden Saints DB Oregon
12 Regan Upshaw Buccaneers DE California
13 Walt Harris Bears DB Mississippi State
>> 14 Eddie George Oilers RB Ohio State - 4 pb - 1 ap<<
15 John Mobley Broncos LB Kutztown (PA) - 1 ap
16 Duane Clemons Vikings DE California
17 Reggie Brown Lions LB Texas A&M
18 Eddie Kennison Rams WR LSU
>> 19 Marvin Harrison Colts WR Syracuse - 8 pb - 3 ap<<
20 Daryl Gardener Dolphins DT Baylor
==============================================
1997 - 5 - 3 - top 5 = 3
>> 1 Orlando Pace Rams T Ohio State - 7 pb - 3 ap<<
>> 2 Darrell Russell Raiders DT USC - 2 pb - 1 ap<<
3 Shawn Springs Seahawks DB Ohio State - 1 pb
>> 4 Peter Boulware Ravens DE Florida State - 4 pb<<
5 Bryant Westbrook Lions DB Texas
>> 6 Walter Jones Seahawks T Florida State - 8 pb - 4 ap<<
7 Ike Hilliard Giants WR Florida
>>8 James Farrior Jets LB Virginia - 2 pb - 1 ap<<
9 TOM Knight Cards CB Iowa
10 Chris Naeole Saints G Colorado
------------------------------------------
11 Michael Booker Falcons DB Nebraska
>> 12 Warrick Dunn Buccaneers RB Florida State - 3 pb<<
>> 13 Tony Gonzalez Chiefs TE California - 12 pb 5 ap<<
14 Reinard Wilson Bengals DE Florida State
15 Yatil Green Dolphins WR Miami (FL)
16 Reidel Anthony Buccaneers WR Florida
17 Kenard Lang Redskins DE Miami (FL)
18 Kenny Holmes Oilers DE Miami (FL)
>>19 Tarik Glenn Colts T California - 3 pb<<
20 Dwayne Rudd Vikings LB Alabama
====================================
1998 - 2 - 3 - top 5 = 2
>> 1 Peyton Manning Colts QB Tennessee - 11 pb - 5 ap<<
2 Ryan Leaf Chargers QB Washington State
3 Andre Wadsworth Cardinals DE Florida State
>> 4 Charles Woodson Raiders DB Michigan - 8 pb - 3 ap<<
5 Curtis Enis Bears RB Penn State
6 Grant Wistrom Rams DE Nebraska
7 Kyle Turley Saints T San Diego State - 1 ap
8 Greg Ellis Cowboys DE North Carolina
9 Fred Taylor Jaguars RB Florida
10 Duane Starks Ravens DB Miami (FL)
--------------------------------------
>> 11 Tra Thomas Eagles T Florida State - 3 pb<<
>> 12 Keith Brooking Falcons LB Georgia Tech - 5 pb<<
>>13 Takeo Spikes Bengals LB Auburn - 2 pb - 1 ap<<
14 Jason Peter Panthers DT Nebraska
15 Anthony Simmons Seahawks LB Clemson
16 Kevin Dyson Oilers WR Utah
17 Brian Simmons Bengals LB North Carolina
18 Robert Edwards Patriots RB Georgia
19 Vonnie Holliday Packers DT North Carolina
20 Terry Fair Lions DB Tennessee
======================================
1999 - 7 - 2 - top 5 = 3
1 Tim Couch Browns QB Kentucky
>>2 Donovan McNabb Eagles QB Syracuse 6 pb<<
3 Akili Smith Bengals QB Oregon
>>4 Edgerrin James Colts RB Miami (FL) - 4 pr - 1 ap<<
>>5 Ricky Williams Saints RB Texas - 1 pb - 1 ap<<
>>6 Torry Holt Rams WR North Carolina State - 7 pb - 1 ap<<
>>7 Champ Bailey Redskins DB Georgia - 11 pb - 3 ap<<
>>8 David Boston Cardinals WR Ohio State - 1 pb - 1 ap<<
9 Chris Claiborne Lions LB USC
>>10 Chris McAlister Ravens DB Arizona - 3 pb - 1 ap<<
------------------------------------------
>>11 Daunte Culpepper Vikings QB Central Florida 3 pb<<
12 Cade McNown Bears QB UCLA
13 Troy Edwards Steelers WR Louisiana Tech
14 John Tait Chiefs T Brigham Young
15 Anthony McFarland Buccaneers DT LSU
>>16 Jevon Kearse Oilers LB Florida - 3 pb - 1 ap<<
17 Damien Woody Patriots C Boston College
18 Matt Stinchcomb Raiders T Georgia
19 Luke Petitgout Giants T Notre Dame
20 Ebenezer Ekuban Cowboys DE North Carolina
=========================================
2000 - 4 - 6 - top 5 = 3
1 Courtney Brown Browns DE Penn State
>>2 LaVar Arrington Redskins LB Penn State - 3 pb<<
>>3 Chris Samuels Redskins T Alabama - 6 pb<<
4 Peter Warrick Bengals WR Florida State
>>5 Jamal Lewis Ravens RB Tennessee - 1 pb - 1 ap<<
6 Corey Simon Eagles DT Florida State
7 Thomas Jones Cardinals RB Virginia
8 Plaxico Burress Steelers WR Michigan State
>>9 Brian Urlacher Bears LB New Mexico - 8 pb - 4 ap<<
10 Travis Taylor Ravens WR Florida
---------------------------------------
11 Ron Dayne Giants RB Wisconsin
>>12 Shaun Ellis Jets DE Tennessee - 2 pb<<
>>13 John Abraham Jets LB South Carolina - 4 pb - 2 ap<<
>>14 Bubba Franks Packers TE Miami (FL) - 3 pb<<
>>15 Deltha O'Neal Broncos DB California - 2 pb - 1 ap<<
>>16 Julian Peterson 49ers LB Michigan State - 5 pb - 1 ap<<
17 Sebastian Janikowski Raiders K Florida State
18 Chad Pennington Jets QB Marshall
>>19 Shaun Alexander Seahawks RB Alabama - 3 pb - 1 ap<<
20 Stockar McDougle Lions T Oklahoma
======================================
2001 - 5 - 3 - top 5 = 4
>>1 Michael Vick Falcons QB Virginia Tech - 4 pb<<
>>2 Leonard Davis Cardinals T Texas - 3 pb<<
3 Gerard Warren Browns DT Florida
>>4 Justin Smith Bengals DE Missouri - 3 pb - 1 ap<<
>>5 LaDainian Tomlinson Chargers RB Texas Christian - 5 pb - 3 ap<<
>>6 Richard Seymour Patriots DT Georgia - 7 pb - 3 ap<<
7 Andre Carter 49ers DE California
8 David Terrell Bears WR Michigan
9 Koren Robinson Seahawks WR North Carolina State
10 Jamal Reynolds Packers DE Florida State
----------------------------------------------
11 Dan Morgan Panthers LB Miami (FL)
12 Damione Lewis Rams DT Miami (FL)
>>13 Marcus Stroud Jaguars DT Georgia - 3 pb<<
14 Kenyatta Walker Buccaneers T Florida
15 Rod Gardner Redskins WR Clemson
16 Santana Moss Jets WR Miami (FL)
>>17 Steve Hutchinson Seahawks G Michigan - 7 pb - 5 ap<<
18 Jeff Backus Lions T Michigan
>>19 Casey Hampton Steelers DT Texas - 5 pb<<
20 Adam Archuleta Rams DB Arizona State
==========================================
2002 - 3 - 3 - top 5 = 1
1 David Carr Texans QB Fresno State
>>2 Julius Peppers Panthers DE North Carolina - 6 pb - 3 ap<<
3 Joey Harrington Lions QB Oregon
4 Mike Williams Bills T Texas
5 Quentin Jammer Chargers DB Texas
6 Ryan Sims Chiefs DT North Carolina
7 Bryant McKinnie Vikings T Miami (FL)
>>8 Roy Williams Cowboys DB Oklahoma - 5 pb - 1 ap<<
>>9 John Henderson Jaguars DT Tennessee - 2 pb<<
10 Levi Jones Bengals T Arizona State
-------------------------------------
>>11 Dwight Freeney Colts LB Syracuse - 7 pb - 3 ap<<
12 Wendell Bryant Cardinals DT Wisconsin
13 Donte Stallworth Saints WR Tennessee
>>14 Jeremy Shockey Giants TE Miami (FL) 4 pb - 1 ap<<
>>15 Albert Haynesworth Titans DT Tennessee - 2 pb - 2 ap<<
16 William Green Browns RB Boston College
17 Phillip Buchanon Raiders DB Miami (FL)
18 T.J. Duckett Falcons RB Michigan State
19 Ashley Lelie Broncos WR Hawaii
20 Javon Walker Packers WR Florida State
============================================
2003 - 7 - 2 - top 5 = 3
>>1 Carson Palmer Bengles QB USC - 2 pb<<
2 Charles Rogers Detroit WR Michigan State
>>3 Andre Johnson Houston WR Miami (Fla.) - 5 pb - 2 ap<<
4 Dewayne Robertson NYJ DT Kentucky
>>5 Terence Newman Dallas CB Kansas State - 2 pb<<
6 Johnathan Sullivan Saints DT Georgia
7 Byron Leftwich Jaguars QB Marshall
>>8 Jordan Gross Panthers OT Utah - 2 pb - 1 pb<<
>>9 Kevin Williams Vikings DT Oklahoma State - 6 pb - 5 ap<<
>>10 Terrell Suggs Ravens DE Arizona State - 5 pb - 1 ap<<
--------------------------------------------
11 Marcus Trufant Seahawks CB Washington State
12 Jimmy Kennedy Rams DT Penn State
13 Ty Warren Patriots DT Texas A&M
14 Michale Haynes Bears DE Penn State
15 Jerome McDougle Eagles DE Miami (Fla.)
>>16 Troy Polamalu Steelers SS Southern California - 7 pb - 4 ap<<
17 Bryant Johnson Cards WR Penn State
18 Calvin Pace Cards DE Wake Forest
19 Kyle Boller Ravens QB California
20 George Foster Broncos OT Georgia
====================================================
2004 - 5 - 4 - top 5 = 4
>>1 Eli Manning Chargers QB Mississippi - 2 pb<<
2 Robert Gallery Raiders OT Iowa
>>3 Larry Fitzgerald Cards WR Pittsburgh - 6 pb - 1 ap<<
>>4 Philip Rivers Giants/Chargers QB North Carolina State - 4 pb<<
>>5 Sean Taylor Redskins DB Miami (FL) - 2 pb<<
6 Kellen Winslow II Browns (from Detroit) TE Miami (FL)
7 Roy Williams Lions (from Cleveland) WR Texas
>>8 DeAngelo Hall Falcons DB Virginia Tech - 3 pb<<
9 Reggie Williams Jaguars WR Washington
10 Dunta Robinson Texans DB South Carolina
--------------------------------------------------
>>11 Ben Roethlisberger Steelers QB Miami (OH) - 2 pb<<
>>12 Jonathan Vilma NYJ LB Miami (FL) - 2 pb<<
13 Lee Evans Bills WR Wisconsin
>>14 Tommie Harris Bears DT Oklahoma - 3 pb<<
15 Michael Clayton Bucs WR LSU
>>16 Shawn Andrews Eagles (from San Francisco) OT Arkansas = 2 pb - 1 ap<<
17 D.J. Williams Broncos (from Cincinnati) LB Miami (FL)
18 Will Smith Saints DE Ohio State
19 Vernon Carey Miami (from Minnesota) OT Miami (FL)
20 Kenechi Udeze Vikings (from Miami) DE USC
================================================
2005 - 1 - 4 - top 5 = 0
1 Alex Smith Niners QB Utah
2 Ronnie Brown Miami RB Auburn
3 Braylon Edwards Browns WR Michigan
4 Cedric Benson Bears RB Texas
5 Cadillac Williams Bucs RB Auburn
6 Pacman Jones Titans CB West Virginia
7 Troy Williamson Vikings WR South Carolina
>>8 Antrel Rolle Cards DB Miami (Fla.) - 2 pb<<
9 Carlos Rogers Skins DB Auburn
10 Mike Williams Lions WR USC
-----------------------------------------------
>>11 DeMarcus Ware Cowboys OLB Troy State - 6 pb - 4 ap<<
>>12 Shawne Merriman Chargers OLB Maryland - 3 pb - 1 ap<<
>>13 Jammal Brown Saints T Oklahoma - 2 pb - 1 ap<<
14 Thomas Davis Panthers DB Georgia
>>15 Derrick Johnson Chiefs OLB Texas - 1 pb - 1 ap<<
16 Travis Johnson Texans DT Florida State
17 David Pollack Bengals LB Georgia
18 Erasmus James Vikings DE Wisconsin
19 Alex Barron Rams T Florida State
20 Marcus Spears Cowboys DE Louisiana State
====================================================
2006 - 3 - 2 - top 5 = 3
>>1 Mario Williams Texans DE North Carolina State - 2 pb<<
2 Reggie Bush Saints RB USC
>>3 Vince Young Titans QB Texas - 2 pb<<
>>4 D'Brickashaw Ferguson Jets T Virginia - 3 pb<<
5 A.J. Hawk Packers OLB Ohio State
6 Vernon Davis Niners TE Maryland
7 Michael Huff Raiders SS Texas
8 Donte Whitner Bills SS Ohio State
9 Ernie Sims Lions OLB Florida State
10 Matt Leinart Cards QB USC
-----------------------------------------------------
11 Jay Cutler Broncos QB Vanderbilt
>>12 Haloti Ngata Ravems DT Oregon - 3 pb - 2 ap<<
13 Kamerion Wimbley Browns OLB Florida State
14 Brodrick Bunkley Eagles DT Florida State
15 Tye Hill Rams CB Clemson
16 Jason Allen Miami DB Tennessee
17 Chad Greenway Vikings LB Iowa
18 Bobby Carpenter Cowboys LB Ohio State
>>19 Antonio Cromartie Chargers CB Florida State - 1 pb - 1 ap<<
20 Tamba Hali Chiefs DE Penn State
====================================================
2007 - 3 - 2 - top 5 = 2
1 JaMarcus Russell Raiders QB Louisiana State
>>2 Calvin Johnson Lions WR Georgia Tech - 2 pb - 1 ap<<
>>3 Joe Thomas Browns OT Wisconsin - 5 pb - 3 ap<<
4 Gaines Adams Bucs DE Clemson
5 Levi Brown Cards OT Penn State
6 LaRon Landry Skins SS Louisiana State
>>7 Adrian Peterson Vikings RB Oklahoma - 4 pb - 2 ap<<
8 Jamaal Anderson Falcons DE Arkansas
9 Ted Ginn Jr. Miami WR Ohio State
10 Amobi Okoye Texans DT Louisville
---------------------------------------------------
>>11 Patrick Willis Niners ILB Mississippi - 5 pb - 4 ap<<
12 Marshawn Lynch Bills RB California
13 Adam Carriker Rams NT Nebraska
>>14 Darrelle Revis Jets CB Pittsburgh - 4 pb - 3 ap<<
15 Lawrence Timmons Steelers LB Florida State
16 Justin Harrell Packers DT Tennessee
17 Jarvis Moss Broncos DE Florida
18 Leon Hall Bengals CB Michigan
19 Michael Griffin Titans FS Texas
20 Aaron Ross Giants CB Texas
====================================================
====================i dont think anyone (or at least myself) is trying to imply that if you pick in the top 5 or 10 that you are guaranteed a high impact player with that pick. the lists i posted clearly show that. but... i think what it does show is that you have a much better chance at achieving the goal of every organization by picking in these slots than in lower ones.
to aquire a franchise player it can't just be determined by money vs. reward risk when you draft. otherwise why even draft at all in the first round? you will end up like the redskins under the former bear dc george allen and even without the the salary cap at that time it just didn't work.
drafting high... will you miss sometimes? absolutely! but the old saying if you DON'T try you will NEVER succeed. if teams that draft consistanly in the top 5 spots can afford it every year why can't the bear organization in the few times over decades afford it? i think the fact that this franchise has had TWO quality qb's (one was a free agent) in 40 years speaks volumes of the risk reward consequences.
these are some interesting draft stats. below are chicago bear hall of fame players and where they were drafted:
HOF 1st round top 10 picks
1. Clyde Bulldog Turner 7th pick 1st round
2. Joe Stydahar 6th pick 1st round
3. Gayle Sayers 4th pick 1st round
4. Walther Payton 4th pick 1st round
5. Dan Hampton 4th pick 1st round
6. George McAfee 2nd pick 1st round (drafted by eagles and immediately traded to bears)
7. Sid Luckman 2nd pick 1st round
8. Mike Ditka 5th pick 1st round
9. George Connor 5th pick 1st round (drafted by ny giants)
10. Dick Butkus 3rd pick 1st round
11. Dan Hampton 4th pick 1st roundHOF 1st round picks 11 - +
1. Doug Atkins 11th pick 1st round
HOF later rounds
1. Mike Singletary 38th pick 2nd round
3. Bill George 2nd round
2. Stan Jones 5th round
6. Richard Dent 8th round
4. Danny Fortmann 9th round pick
5. George Blanda 12th roundHOF not listed as draft picks. prior to 1936
1. Bronco Nagurski
2. George Musso
3. Roy Lyman
4. Bill Hewitt
5. Ed Healey
6. George Halas
7. John Driscol
-
2 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:
My first point would be regarding the general 'you need a first round QB to win a Super Bowl.' The last two QBs the Bears picked were 1st rounders. So were they not the right ones or?
Here's an illustration of how 'stats are what you make of them'. Of the last 10 Super Bowl winning teams only 4 of their QBs were 1st round picks (that's 40%). One of those, Joe Flacco, probably wouldn't be considered by most as "elite". Two of them, Manning and Stafford were not playing for the team that originally drafted when they won the SB in that time. Perhaps the elitist of the elite, Brady who won 4 SBs in that time, was drafted in the 6th round AND won it with two separate teams.
To extrapolate or "bend" the stats a bit more, two of the top NFC teams right now have QBs that were not drafted in the first round. Purdy (#262 overall) and Hurts (#53 overall).
this is my take.... i did a lot of research over 10 years ago on the relationship to elite players/qb's and it came up real similar to phx's research.
most sb winning teams without elite or at the least VERY GOOD + qb's usually do not enjoy multiple superbowls. it's a one and done. look at the teams with multiple superbowl appearances and you will find (i am assuming this) they had the quality qb to get them there.
there are a number of factors that come into play for superbowl qb's.
1. the qb's FIRST have to get their teams there. without that elite qb are you going to win the division to even get in the running for a championship game consistently? or at worst be eligible for the wildcard spots?
2. it also adds up to what seed you are going to fall under. do you have any bye weeks in the playoffs. are you playing home games? the strength of the teams you open against before the championship game. these are all very important. so it's not just the sb winner but the teams that are always in the hunt to get there.
3. the nfl cap and rules have changed so much over the past 2 or 3 decades in favor of offense that it just isn't feasible to rely on a defense more than once to even get you there.
so yes, in my opinion, it is critical to have that top tier qb to even consistently give your franchise an edge to attain a playoff berth.
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54 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:
The NFL must hire full time officials. With billions of dollars on the line every week, they are concerned with saving thousands and it's ridiculous. They also need to start with team's having the ability to challenge any penalty they want. It shouldn't add too much time to the game, especially since they already have a video crew in new york looking at everything. TJ Watt had spoken out about officiating, saying the officials must not like him or something.
agree. teams should be able to challenge penalties AND penalties not called if it is flagrant. maybe each team gets two extra penalty flags along with game flags.
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5 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:
The problem with officials. cheating can be offset by the review booth and other officials on the field. That would be difficult. I think it's just incompetent refs.
i just don't believe that anymore. i have seen reviews by the booth that clearly show one outcome and yet they call another.
other officials are either in on the fix or else they will not contradict the one in question or are completely incompetent. EDIT: or are not in position to make a call on that play.
also, the booth does NOT as far as i know review non flagged penalties. or even any penalties?
2024 Draft Board
in Bearstalk
Posted
it's NOT hindsight. it is reliable facts if you want to win multiple superbowls or at least put yourself in POSITION to win them every year consistently it is with elite first round qb's. griese, bradshaw, montana, young, aikman. elway, rogers, morino, even mahomes and then you have the anomalies like starr, favre, brady
there are no sure things but as often as you get a chance to really choose a difference maker without mortgaging the farm you better be sure not to f- it up, even if your pick doesn't turn out, by hoping you can turn coal into a diamond.