nfoligno

I don't mind the heat. Humidity is another matter, but heat I can deal w/. I absolutely love July/August here when we start to count how many consecutive days go over 100. I love it because the golf courses are empty during the hottest part of the day, and I have it all to myself. Well, myself and a few other nuts. Plus, it is light out later. I can tee off as late as 5pm, and still get in 2 full rounds.

No doubt. I just made a tee-time for 10:37 tomorrow, and I will most likely be wearing shorts. I remember about two years ago, we had the most perfect winter ever. One morning I woke up, and it was a straight up snow flurry, and had been going on all night. There was actually around 2 to 3 inches of snow on the ground. I was truly excited, and woke up the kids. We got dresses, made a snow man, had snow ball fights, etc. I swear to you, by around 10am, the snow stopped falling, and the sun was up. Around 1pm that afternoon, the sun was out full and it was getting hotter by the minute, the snow was melting away, and heavy coats were shed for light jackets. By the end of the day, there was barely a trace of the snow. All you saw were small patches on grass and maybe the heads of the snowmen that were full size in the morning. I think it ended up being in the mid 60s that day. That was the best winder ever. It lasted one morning, long enough to play in the snow, and was warm enough by afternoon to play some golf.

Wow would I disagree w/ your last statement. In Anderson's rookie year, he showed an incredible arsenal of moves. I very specifically recall Richard Dent raving about Anderson, and talking about how Anderson was showing a host of moves you rarely see from a rookie. Dent talked about how rookies often enter the league w/ a very limited number of pass rushing moves, and that over time, they learn more from both veterans and coaches. Dent flat out raved about how many moves Anderson displayed as a rookie. One of the most impressive moves I saw out of Anderson was one to the inside. He lines up on the outside shoulder of the OT, showing edge rush. Due to his speed, the OT often cheats and jumps out that direction out of his stance. But Anderson, after selling the move w/ an initial outside move, then cuts inside w/ a combo swim/head slap move. The OT is already off balance as he was on his heels moting outside, and then has to totally adjust. When Anderson gives him the slap/swim, Anderson goes through the OT as if he were 100 lbs wet. It was a great move, and just one example of what Anderson did as a rookie. Then sophmore year comes along, and Anderson is moved into a starting role, and w/ different DL and DC coaches. From game one, I recall commenting to friends, and on this board, about how Anderson was not using any of the moves he did as a rookie. All he did now was edge rush to the outside, and was taking disgustingly wide angles, just as I always complained Alex Brown did. From an early point last year, I began to argue that our staff killed Anderson. His rookie year, he looked incredible. His 2nd year, Brick and Babich got their hands into Anderson and destroyed him. If Anderson has to learn more moves than one, it is because Brick and Babich hammered all knowledge of additional moves out of Anderson's head, because the best pass rusher in Bear history sure felt he had more than one move.

I listened to the JA interview, and he didn't really speak about the defensive ends specifically. But he did say that he didn't see any reason why Tommie Harris wouldn't receive his roster bonus, and he reiterated that he's looking forward to seeing Harris return to top form. He also mentioned that had to look closely at whether they could fix the problems they had in house, or if they needed to look outside. We're probably just going to disagree on this, but I interpret that to mean with bringing in Marinelli, they're hoping Wale can return to double digit sacks and that we'll address the DE position in the draft. I knew he was taking the position harris would get back to form. As for Wale, I guess we will just have to disagree. You say, "hoping Wale can return to double digit sacks". Do you realize that in the 5 years Wale has been a bear, only ONCE has he been in the double digits for sacks. IMHO, he has never lived up to expectations we (and Angelo) had when we traded for him, and it is only getting worse. I interpret Angelo the opposite of you, which may mean nothing more than we are hearing that which supports our arguments the most It's up to 8 degrees here which is down-right balmy compared to the negative 12 it was when I woke up this morning. Negative 12? Really? The thermometer goes that low? I can't recall the last time I saw 12, much less negative 12.

Okay, Top 10 WRs below. Didn't read your previous reply...sorry for the repeat attack. No attack felt. Just trying to bring it back to the original point, as threads (particularly mine) often go in directions such that the original point is totally forgotten. Ignoring the point of this thread, I have a huge problem with your list. I know you went by receiving yards, but that's not a true measure of who the top WRs are in the league. If it were, then Muhsin Muhammed would be better than TJ Houshyomomma, and we all know from experience that isn't true. And considering Welker, if you look at his stats before he was paired with Moss, it's not nearly as good. Randy Moss Terrell Owens Anquan Boldin All three are in the top ten WRs in the league. I'd also go so far as to say that Braylon Edwards, Marques Colston, and maybe a few others are better than some on the list. Okay, you are right. While I was trying to use the list for simplicity sake, you are right that the simple route actually hurts the argument as the list is simply off, thus are the results. So.... Andre Johnson, Fitzgerald, Steve Smith, Brandon Marshall, Reggie Wayne. Can we agree these 5 are unquestionably in the top 10? So you are not a fan of just looking at yards. Okay. Catches, Yards and Scores are the three categories I think most are going to look at for WRs. Looking at the 3 categories, the following were top 10 in at least two categories. Boldin (yards/scores), Roddy White (catches/yards), Calvin Johnson (yards/scores), Jennings (yards/scores), Welker (catches/yards). I would throw out the following names who didn't have a great year this year, but were among the elite last year. Moss, TO, Braylon Edwards, Colston, Holt, Tj Hous. So that gives us 11 WRs (unless you can think of more) to choose from to give us another 5 for the top 10. I would eliminate Edwards, Holt and TJ. Edwards because of just how freaking bad he looked this year. Holt due to age and decline. TJ because as good as I think he is, he probably is not a top 10 WR. Maybe FF, but not NFL. That gives us 8 to choose from, and here is an area I have a feeling you and I will disagree, as neither Moss, nor TO make my list. Moss is awesome, but I just do not think the player he once was. He can still be a tremendous playmaker, but just not w/ the consistency he once had. TO is just getting older and slower. Still a quality WR, w/o question, but not what he was. His inability to get seperation more than anything leads me to believe he is on his way down. While one of my favorite players, I would probably knock Welker off too. To be just outside the top 10 still speaks to his talent and what he does, but I simply would take the other WRs when looking at both consistency AND playmaking potential. So Boldin, White, Calvin Johnson, Jennings and Colston would round out my list. All three are younger, still developing, and yet on a higher level than the older WRs who once dominated the elite lists. So my top 10 would look something like, though in no particular order: Andre Johnson Larry Fitzgerald Steve Smith Brandon Marshall Reggie Wayne Anquin Boldin Roddy White Calvin Johnson Greg Jennings Marquis Colston Of this group, Smith and Marshall have known character issues. I would not say any of the rest are considered character risks, and would absolutely say they are not considered the prima donas older elite WRs like Moss, TO, MeShawn Johnson, Chad Johnson, Joe Horn, Burress, Javon Walker or the like. So my point now is still the same as it was originally. There once was a time when, if you wanted an elite WR on your roster, you most likely were going to have to accept bad character, as the vast majority of the elite WRs were at the same time bad characters. But today, I think that has changes. I think the prima dona WRs are falling by wayside, while higher character WRs are elevating up the boards. Now, maybe that is because they are young and need time to become jerks, but until we see that, I will continue to argue that you do not have to accept bad character to get a great WR.

I think TO's drops are fairly well known. The thing is, there was a time when the drops were more than offset by the rest of his game. In fact, the rest of his game offset both the drops and character issues. But today, the drops and character have only gotten worse, while the actual play on the field has gotten down. That is a bad combo.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. One. He proved this year that he is not always happy when the team is winning. Even when the boys were winning, he began to gripe about not getting the ball enough. TO cried about how Romo was throwing to Witten too much, and how TO didn't feel the team was getting him the ball enough. So even when the team was winning, it wasn't enough if that was happening w/o TO getting his. Two. 69 catches for 1,050 yards. That is not stats reflective of one of the best WRs in the league. Take a look at his stats over the last few years (Dallas). He had two nice years and one big year. Sure, those nice years look great for bear fans, but I am not sure they would have ranked him even in the top 10 of WRs. There is no questioning how great of a player TO has been over his career, but I do think there is enough evidence to question how much he is beginning to decline. He is 35 years old. The drops were always there, but they seem to be coming at a greater rate. Also, while getting open never seemed to be a problem for TO, I think most any Dallas fan could tell you about how he really struggled to get open this year. He would have two DBs draped all over him, but still scream for Romo to throw him the ball. This is also reflected in a stat (I don't have it) that Dallas media was talking about. There is a stat that shows how many passes are thrown to a WR, compared to how many completions are made. In this stat, TO was near the bottom. Drops are part of it, but not a key part. The greater part of the stat reflected how he simply could not get open, and DBs were able to prevent the catch. I am not saying TO is done. Not by any means. But I think his name is greater than his game at this point, and feel his game is likely only to go further downhill. And this does not even factor his "issues".

I have heard that argument too, but how then does it makes sense when we play so far off the LOS against slow WRs. If we were just playing off WRs like Steve Smith, that would be one thing, but when we play 8-10 yards off the LOS when facing Moose, I question how much is due to the speed of the WR. We seem to give space to any and all WR, regardless of the WRs speed.

That is the rooke who put up double digit sacks BEFORE we made changes to our DL and DC coaching. While many have simply written him off, I really wonder if the addition of Marinelli and Lovie (taking over playcalling duties) doesn't help Anderson return to a pass rush specialist threat.

The difference is that Carolina should be one helluva a lot more motivated to resign Peppers. They need Peppers more then we do. I wouldn't be surprised if they franchised him. No argument how motivated Carolina will likely be to re-sign him. At the same time, you can have all the motivation you want, but if another team w/ double or triple the cap space offers a better deal, history has shown us the FA will usually go where the money is. As for the franchise tag, I have said all along that is absolutely a possibility. If nothing else, I would think they slap the tag on him to keep him off the market, but in hopes of re-signing him rather than carrying the price of the tag. I simply have not read much by way of their plans, so only time will tell. The free agent crop is really sad. If JA thinks Peppers might put us over the top, he might go all out. But I don't see it. I simply believe Angelo views a pass rushing DE as our top need heading into the offseason, and in Peppers, you have one of the best in the league. I can easily see him making a big splash here. JA is being interviewed on the SCORE at 9:30. I'm anxious to hear what he has to say. Damn I love snow days. Snow? What's that. Cold as heck here (20s) but nothing resembling this thing you speak of. Tomorrow is supposed to be in the 60s. Nice golf weather.

But is the best way to treat a cancer by ingesting more cancer? As much as coaches are part of the problem, I also think our team sorely lacks leadership on the field. IMHO, Mike Brown and Olin Kreutz are the only two players who have ever (recent history) showed leadership, but Brown said himself he doesn't feel right taking on the role when he has missed so much time and w/ Kreutz play deteriorating by the minute, I question how effective his words are today. So w/ a team so lacking in leadership, I think adding a player like TO is a major mistake. It's one thing to point to Moss in NE, but in that situation, you have one of the best, no-nonsense coaching staffs and a team filled w/ leaders who are simply better keeping a player in check. And frankly, I have always felt a key to keeping Moss happy was winning. Even w/ all the factors NE has, if they were to begin losing, I wonder how good Moss would act. If we added TO, are you sure we would win. If not, I think we would absolutely see the very worst side of TO.

I pulled that from espn: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?sectio...&id=1866081 I can't argue with the details you mention. I couldn't find how much Alex Brown was making, but I feel like he's around 5 million per. So let me ask you this: Who would you rather have of the two? Wale has consistently been the better of the two. Either we need to conclude that Wale sucks, or we need to turn him around. You still misunderstand. This thread is not about, and have never been about, what I want, but what or would do, but what I think Angelo wants and will do. I personally think Wale is a better DE, but Brown is most often given more credit. Brown, to me, is too inconsistent in terms of pass rush. He ends a year w/ 6 or 7 sacks, but gets them all in 2 or 3 games, and disappears in the rest (pass rush). Maybe, but upgrading him is eisier said then done. You could make that argument for most any player or position. I agree that getting a stud pass rusher is one of the most difficult holes to fill, which is frankly a greater argument to get Peppers. Most any other position we would be talking about, you can (IMHO) more easily find a good player, but finding an elite pass rusher simply is very difficult. TJ, for example, is the WR I want, but an argument can be made that WRs are easier to find and thus not worth spending the big coin. Elite pass rushing DEs on the other hand are very difficult to find, and thus if one comes available, it makes plenty of sense to go after one. Disagree. How often to you see teams adding big name players into an already big name group? Usually it has an adverse affect. This would be the Dan Snyder/Jerry Jones factor. Maybe they wouldn't complain publicly, but these types of signings tend to back-fire. Jared Allen is probably the exception to that, but Minnesota had a tremendous need at DE, and he was warmly welcomed by two tremendous DT's. Exactly what big names do we have on the DL? Harris, but why would his situation differ from that of Minny's. Brown is not a big name player, and nor is Wale, who frankly would likely not be on the team if we added Peppers anyway. While I think coaching killed our DL, I never agreed w/ the idea they were so great in the first place, and absolutely would not say our DL is loaded w/ big names, unless you mean how long Wale's name is. While JA has not been afraid to pay a guy, when he did: 1. We were desperate for an upgrade at the position. That's why he paid Tait, Moose, and Wale. While we're not great at DE, we're far from desperate. Sorry, but have you listend to our staff? While you and I write off much of the DL woes to coaching, and while I think they believe coaching has been a factor, I also think they (Angelo in particular) feels we have a big hole there too. In fact, to an extent, you must as well as you continue to talk about a DE as high as round one. You don't draft a DE in round one if it is not a need. You aside, I think Angelo views our DL as lacking a DE big time, and maybe a DT as well. 2. He never spent "crazy money." You mentioned how so many teams are way under the cap. I'd be shocked if Peppers didn't at the very least match Jared Allen's deal. That's just WAY to much when you're hoping your new d-line coach and new defensive play-caller can fix a lot of the problems. All a matter of perspective. While I am sure the hope is our new coaching improves the DL, at the same time, Angelo very well may want to give his BFF's the best tools possible to succeed. If he believes we have a big hole at LDE, I simply think it is more likely he will do whatever possible to fill that hole and give Marinelli and Lovie a huge playmaker to work w/. As for big money, again, perspective. When he paid Kreutz, he made Kreutz the top paid center in the league. When he paid Urlacher, same, or close. Tait and Wale's deals may not look record shattering today, but $15m signing bonus at the time was about as high as you saw. He offered $20m bonus to Kearse, even if he didn't get him. So while the bar has been set higher, I would argue that Angelo has usually been in a position to meet (or come close) to that bar in he past.

So Carolina can't fight off all the suitors yet the Bears will? Even when we have more glaring needs at so many other positions? Not to mention that while our DE's aren't that great, they really aren't that bad. The key point was their lack of cap space. They have only $10m in space right now. It was pointed out they can cut some players to free up maybe as much as another $5m, but frankly, so can we and most teams. The point though is, we have double the space as they do, and many other teams can say the same thing. That is why I said they will have a difficult time fighting off the suitors if he makes it to FA. We don't even really know how bad our defensive-line is since either the play-calling or the secondary left things so wide open, the d-line never had time to get to the QB. Assuming Peppers will cost at least as much as Jared Allen, 6 years 73 million, the Bears could get a damn good RT and safety for that amount of money and easily draft a DE in the first round. It just doesn't make sense for this team. Hey, you are preaching to the choir. I have said all along this is NOT what I would prefer to do. I too would rather devote that cap space to filling holes that we simply know are totally lacking in talent. WR. OT. OG. FS. Hell, I would argue I could sign the top WR and FS, as well as a very good OT. I would throw OG in there too, but the FA crop is really sad. Please understand. I am not arguing what I want, but simply what I think Angelo and Lovie may want, and what they may do. I agree 100% that it is hard to know just how good or bad our DL is after the two crap years of crap coaching, but I simply feel Angelo would love to add Peppers, and further, simply feel it (in Angelo's world) makes sense.

I might cut Wale even w/o adding one of those two. In this thread, I have tried to walk the line talking about (a) what I think Angelo will do and ( what I personally want to do. I think the odds of our cutting Wale and using the money to sign Peppers is greater than many would believe. I know you like Suggs, but I simply believe the staff is likely higher on Peppers. Where I want the money spent is OL and WR. I would like to sign TJ Housyourmama and maybe Vernon Carey, who I think would be an instant upgrade to Tait, who may also be on my chopping block. I would also sign St. Clair. IMHO, neither Carey, nor St. Clair will cost "that" much. I would spend the bulk of my money on TJ, and then look at: S - Atogwe - Some think he will be tagged, or simply re-signed. But as of today, he is due to be an UFA, and I think would be a great fit. As for Wale, if we didn't get Peppers, what I would do is wait until after the draft. If I took a DE in round one, I might just cut Wale then.

Hey, time will tell. IMHO, their best chance to keep him will be to tag him. IMHO, if he hits FA, he will be gone. You can write the numbers 20 ways from Sunday, but w/ so many teams $20, $30 and even $40m under the cap, they will have a hard time fighting off the suitors. They can have all the desire to keep him they want, and offer him a great deal, but w/ so much less cap space than others, I just think they will come up short. Their best chance will be to tag him, but I have heard/read little about their planning to do so.

Few points. First, regarding Wale. He signed a 6 year deal? That means he will be entering the final year of his deal, and will be a FA after the 2009 season. Also, you mention a $15m SB, but as I recall, we paid him $5m as a roster bonus, w/ another $10m SB due the following season. I recall pretty well it being a multi-tier bonus, as it created a lot of press. Anyway, the points here are (a) Wale is not likely part of the long term plans ( while we may have paid him a lot, it was a long time ago © If I am close to right on the numbers, we will eat maybe $1.5m or so in bonus, but I would bet we have over $5m in base salary due to him, and thus cutting him would create solid cap space. I believe Wale is one of the players Angelo was calling out (not by name) and is a player/position he is looking to upgrade. Second, You ask how others would feel about our bringing in a FA and paying him more. Again, couple points. (a) after the season (two seasons for that matter) we have had on defense, there is not a player on the squad who deserves the right to complain about another guy making more than him ( we are not talking about giving some spare more money than the rest, but adding one of the league's truly elite pass rushers more. I think the players would be thrilled w/ the potential addition of Peppers as he would go a long way toward the group as a whole doing a lot better. So I just do not think chemistry is such an issue. To me, keeping the status quo when players as begging for change is more likely to affect chemistry. Third, how much would we be willing to give him? I have no clue. It always comes down to money, but I will say this. Several times, Angelo has surprised me (and fans) w/ how much he was willing to give a player. Harris didn't get the massive payday he likely wanted, but he also had the injury red flag. I do recall a few years back fans (including me) saying there was no way we would even look at Kearse, but guess what. We did. We didn't get him, but as I recall, offered as much as $20m bonus to get him, which would have put him over Urlacher, who was in his prime and our defensive leader. So I am not sure I would be so certain we would not fork over the money. I agree money does not necessarily fix a problem. Just signing the best available FA at a position doesn't mean that player deserves the money. At the same time, Peppers is simply an unquestioned stud, and at a position our staff so covet. Throwing money at a position doesn't always fix it (ask Snyder) but that doesn't mean it always bombs either. We may well draft defense in general, and DE specific, in the draft, but don't be so quick to dismiss FA. I think a factor that has to be considered is what areas are deep in FA and what are deep in the draft. If we want a stud to help the team in FA, and Angelo is choosing (for example) between TJ and Peppers, sorry, but I think Angelo is going to take Peppers, and then draft a WR.

Personally, I would be surprised if we didn't see the starting o-line of Williams, St. Clair/Beekman, Kretz, Garza, and Tait again next year. While we need to upgrade o-line, I could easily see us continuing with the status quo. No argument, except to say that I think Angelo would argue adding Williams is equal to adding a big name, and thus not the status quo. You and I know better, but what I think Angelo's line of thought would be. While the WR position is more urgent, what makes you think we won't continue to scrape the bottom of the barrel bringing in guys like Booker & Lloyd? JA doesn't seem that concerned about the WR position, and it more likely we'll continue to let Hester develop and focus on our TE's. I am just not sure here. He did a few years back spend big to bring in Moose. It didn't work, but it did show that he is willing to spend on a WR when necessary. Problem is, this is a VERY weak FA class of WRs. After TJ, there is a huge dropoff. I think Bryant will get a lot of interest and money, but is not worth it. Other than that, it is a bunch of mediocre WRs. I can however see him spending a 1st round pick on a WR. I totally disagree w/ this plan, but simply believe it is one Angelo very well could be leaning toward.

Agree they will not cut Delhomme. Agree they will target Peppers over Gross. Where I would disagree is the idea they will be able to keep him though. As already discussed, they do not have a ton of cap space. Take our division, for example. We are looking to have in the $20-25m range, assuming no one is cut. Minny, GB and Det are all in similar situations. Heck, can't recall who it was, but I read there is a team who will have around $40m in cap space. Point is, while $10m may have once looked like a nice amount, today it is closer to chump change. They may want to re-sign Peppers, but unless he is tagged, I think he will enter FA and check out what other teams are going to offer him, and if he gets to that point, I do not see Carolina being able to re-sign him. They could tag him I guess, but that would mean using up ALL their cap space to do so. They would have to cut players just to sign their rookie class, and that doesn't even factor their inability to sign other FAs to fill holes. Frankly, I think they are going to lose both Peppers and Gross, as they simply do not have the cap space to compete w/ teams that have 2, 3 and even 4 times as much space to work w/.

#1- Fitzgerald's wife has a restraining order against him. Perhaps his character isn't all fine and dandy as many perceive it. Maybe not, but he sure does not seem to have the bad reputation. Maybe he is not a "great" character, but I definitely do not believe that, as of now, he is considered to be anything close to the prima dona as elite WRs of the past were. #2- Boldin > Welker. You'd be nuts to take Welker over Boldin. #3- Lee Evans, Houshmanzadeh, Dwyane Bowe, and maybe even Berrian are all better WR's then Antonio Bryant. I was simply listing the top 10 WRs according to stats this year. I am not saying this would be "my" top 10, but simply using stats so as to avoid just such an argument. I too would put Boldin over Welker, though Welker would be part of my top 10. And I agree w/ TJ, Bown and probably Evans over Bryant. Not sure where I would put Berrian. I think he may be in the top 10 if you wanted to discuss downfield theats, but in terms of overall WR, no way. He simply has never been consistent enough of a WR. But again, this is beside the point. I was not trying to name the true top 10 WRs, but simply using this past years stats. In the end, I think the point is the same. Not too long ago, when you looked at the list of the elite WRs in the game, high character would have been in the minority. Now, I would argue the prima donas are more in the minority. Over the years, I think there have been myths. Those myths may have once been true, but over the years, changed, but public perception may not have changed w/ them. For example, for years, it was believed that WRs took 3 years to develop, and stats really supported that. In more recent times though, I think we have seen that (a) rookie WRs are coming in and making a greater impact and ( even those who don't do not necessarily need 3 years to develop. But still today, when talking draft, you will often see fans talk of passing on a WR because they will not help the team for 3 years, regardless of the many WRs who have developed/produced as rookies or 2nd year players.

I understand your points, but also believe DE (in Angelo's mind) makes a lot of sense. You ask who we would replace, but I think Angelo (w/o calling out his name) pointed already to Wale. I wish I had the numbers, but I think that if we were to cut Wale, we would save money as he is late in his contract. Thus most of the SB (some of which I think was a roster bonus early on) will have been mostly paid, while his base salary is most likely higher. At least, that is how most contracts are written. So I think Angelo could be looking at replacing Wale, and in Peppers, he would be replacing Wale w/ one of the league's premier DEs. If we are talking about Lovie being excited in personnel changes, that just doesn't sound to me like either (a) under the radar FA, nor ( a rookie. I doubt we are flat out going to take a DE in the 1st. Not saying it can't happen, but I don't think we will be looking to simply draft the best DE available, and thus, there is no certainty we will be drafting a DE. W/o such, why would Lovie be excited. I disagree w/ the move, but I think (a) it would easily explain why Lovie would be excited about personnel changes and ( be very much in line w/ Angelo's history.

I think Angelo feels the same way. A key reason I do not is because I believe coaching more than talent is why our defense has tanked over the last two years. To offer evidence of that point, I would point out that we have made dramatic coaching changes to the defense. If our D stunk due to a lack of talent, why fire/demote all our coaches. If our D issues was just about talent, why the need to demote Lovie's BFF, and why the need for Lovie to take over. I believe we have talent still on D, and the DL. I think coaching more than talent prevented this D from being good/great. We were a top 5 D with nearly the same personnel. While I can understand a player or two going downhill, I find it hard to believe all of them tanked on their own, and at the same time. Thus, I believe w/ the coaching changes, we could see a big turnaround on D this year, even if we made no changes on the D. Offense on the other hand, I think we over-achieved. I do not believe coaching killed our offense, but believe that we simply lack talent on O. We need dramatic changes to the OL and to the WR corp. This org wants to see better results from Orton, and gain a better evaluation of him, but if we do not give him a legit starting caliber WR, nor upgrade the OL, how can we really expect such? I understand the desire to get Peppers, and also see the benefit, but at the same time, feel that (a) our defense will be better due to coaching changes and ( believe it is on offense where we simply lack talent.

No question our money is currently tied up on the D, but I would make the following arguments: One. While the O seemed to improve, the D has been in a steady decline. While I personally believe that is far more due to coaching than talent, I think (based on Angelo and Lovie's comment) that our GM and HC believe we have talent issues too. Two. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. How often have you heard Angelo and Lovie talk about that? We run a defense which simply fails if you do not generate a pass rush w/ your front four, and yet we have no. If we do not see a big improvement in our pass rush, can we expect our defense as a whole to be any better? If the D doesn't improve, should we expect more wins? I think our GM and HC believe the success of the team depends on improving our pass rush. Three. History. Where has our staff proven they are willing to spend? QB? Nope. WR? Nope. RB/TE? Not needs. OL? We spent on Kreutz, but I would argue we often spend on in-house extensions. We also spent big on Tait, but that was how long ago? On the other hand, I think Angelo has more than proven he is quite happy to spend on defense, and in his mind, there is no position greater than the OL. Four. While I think we need to make numerous changes to the OL, I also believe Angelo believes the addition of Williams is the equivalent to a big ticket addition. Angelo believe adding Williams is similar to our signing a big name FA. Further, I think Angelo feels our OL wasn't that bad, and the addition of Williams will essentially make the OL good. On the other hand, I think Angelo believes our DL bombed last year, and that we simply lack the horses to get it done. Five. Final argument. Lovie is taking over the D playcalling. Angelo's BFF Marinelli is taking over the DL. I don't think Angelo wants Lovie to fail, and as such, is going to try and see to it Lovie has everything he needs to be successful. If our D tanks again this year, it will likely spell the end for Lovie, as he will be out of excuses. I don't think Angelo wants that, and thus will try to re-build the D.

Yea, they can free up $6.5m or whatever, but do you know where the stand overall in cap space? Either way, that is two huge signings, and I am simply not so sure they can keep both.

Call me nuts, but I'm not really high on these 3 guys, and for reasons that you mentioned. Haynesworth has always been called lazy (just what we need, another one of those), Peppers had a bad year last year but a good one this year (playing for huge money?), and Suggs has never been a pure DE in the NFL (so his numbers in the end might not reflect the money we paid him). For the record, I am not sure you can categorize Peppers that way. He did have a bad, very bad, 2007, but it isn't like he came out of no where this year. He was one of the best DEs in the league. He had one bad season, which I think he was playing through injury, and got back to form this past year. When you see a player have a career year in a contract year, that is one thing, but in Peppers, he simply got back to the play expected in his contract year. He simply had one bad season. So I just do not think he can be categorized as a contract year player. I don't know. I'd like to see us possibly try to trade for one like we did Wale. I have 2 guys in mind- Aaron Schobel (Buffalo) or Patrick Kerney (Seattle). Both guys were hurt a ton last year, and both are in their early 30's in terms of age. Schobel played in every game in 2007 but he only had about 7 sacks. Kerney, on the other hand, played in every game in 2007 and he had 15 sacks, similar to Peppers but the other way around. However, Kerney just got a $40 million deal in 2007, so I'm not sure we'd be willing to pick that up. Yet, he's 32 so maybe Seattle could be trying to rebuild? Have you read anything to suggest either Schobel or Kerney are on the block. Its one thing to mention a player, or two, you like, but if there is nothing to suggest their teams are looking to move them, what's the point. Also, I am not sure Wale has ANY trade value. He is at a point in his contract where his base salary is going to be high, thus any team trading for him would also have to give him a new deal, w/ new money. Further, he is coming off a bad season, and thus, I am not sure his value would be high, contract or no.

I agree with you on Haynesworth, and I'd be shocked if Tennessee didn't resign him. As for Peppers, there's no way the Panthers aren't keeping him. They are going to do everything in their power to retain him. If they lose him, there goes their D, IMO. I think Haynseworth is gone. I think he will have too much interest around the league to re-sign w/ Tenn. Here is Texas, the talk is Houston intends to make a MAJOR run at fat albert. As for Peppers, I am sure they want to keep him, but they also have their premier LT hitting FA. Keeping one will be difficult, but both near impossible. Peppers may not make it to FA, but I think there is a pretty decent chance he does. Suggs makes perfect sense for us though. He'll get paid a lot, but not as much as Peppers or Haynesworth, and he fits what we are looking for in a DE. Right now he's no. 2 on Baltimore's to do list as they need to bring back Ray Lewis. The biggest knock against Suggs in Baltimore is that he's not real good in pass coverage, and that's why they have him play with his hand down most of the time. And he was a stud DE in college. He's got the size, explosion, and the moves we look for in a DE. If we signed him, I'd cut Ogunleye (save about 4.8 million), shift Brown to RDE, and have Suggs play LDE. Also, with Suggs, if we did ever change coaching staffs and schemes, Suggs could play OLB/pass rushing DE in a 3-4 or a SAM in a 4-3. Makes perfect sense to me. Also, he's the youngest and will be 26, going on to 27, at the start of next season. One. You mention "shifting" Brown to RDE, but that is where he plays now. If Suggs could play LDE, he would simply replace Wale. Two. I am still not 100% on Suggs. I don't care about pass coverage, but I do question whether he could be a dominant everydown DE. I just think teams that play the 3-4 will be going after him the hardest, and feel his value there is simply better than in a 4-3. I wonder (I really don't know) how well he would play the run as an everydown DE. We can say we want him for his pass rush, but if we get gashed on the run, we will not be in nearly as many pass rush opportunities to take advantage. Further, if he is not great against the run, teams will attack him and could wear him down sooner, thus taking away some of his explosive ability.