nfoligno

I don't know. I think more and more NTs are not as big as the big fatties of our old scheme. In Dallas, Ratcliff is just over 300lbs, while is backup (Tank Johnson) is 305lb. Pitt's Casey Hampton is around 320 lbs. Baltimore's Gregg is only 315lbs. Miami's Fergusen is 305lbs. NE's Wilfork is 325lbs. There are still some true big boys, like Sd's Williams who is about 350lbs, but I think that is more the exception than the rule today. Even in the 3-4, you just do not often see the fat boys anymore like a Ted Washington. Most are between 300 to 325lbs.

Is there any chance he could be looked at to play FS?

Agreed. Also, I'll be the first to admit that I am flat out high on Nicks, and thus may not emphasize potential flags. If I was luke warm on Nicks, I too would have been all over his wonderlic. As you said, this is where scouts earn their pay. While coaches tend not to rip a player, at the same time, if they flat out lie, it would likely come back to bite as scouts would not believe that coach about his next prospect. Here are other areas commented on, Route Running: Nicks is never going to be able to generate the explosion needed to simply separate, but he is a precise route runner who comes out of his breaks cleanly, doing a nice job of generating YAC when used on slants. For a player of his size, he gets in and out of his cuts so well, thanks to his ability to drop and sink his weight. He is shifty in the open and uses solid head and shoulder fakes to con his man on his patterns. He shows the vision and balance to come back for the ball and stay square. He is best when working on slant and option routes. His savvy moves usually gets cornerbacks to come out of their backpedal and commit too early. He gets a very good push off the defender with his hand usage. He has decent speed, but with his long stride it looks deceptive. He shows good fluid movement and the ability to accelerate out of his breaks. One of his best assets is his double-cut ability. He has no problems sinking and planting coming out of his breaks, especially on the bubble-screen, one of his best plays. GRADE: 7.8 Separation Ability: Nicks' footwork is well above average when trying to separate. He uses his power well to get a clean release and while he is not going to gobble up the cushion on every deep pattern, he has enough of a short-area burst to settle in the soft spots. Even though he does not have the ideal deep speed, he can get vertical, but is best served working on comeback routes. He shows above average sideline awareness, good alertness and field presence. He gets in and out of his breaks fluidly and shows decent ability to accelerate after the catch. GRADE: 7.4 Ball Concentration: Nicks does a nice job of maintaining focus on the ball in flight. Because he will not be able to suddenly run under every ball, maintaining position and tracking the ball is what he does best to compensate. He knows how to open up his hips and sink his pads to get to off-target throws or passes from behind him. The thing you see on film is his ability to make plays in all areas, whether fighting for the ball in the short area or to elevate and snatch the ball at its highest point. GRADE: 7.8 Ball Adjustment: Nicks is a contortionist, as he is always twisting and turning his frame to get into position to make the catch. His long arms let him adjust to the balls thrown down low and he has the extension to get to the high throws outside his frame. You can see on film that he will simply go over people to get to the ball. He is one of the better adjustors to off-line throws and also excels at coming up with the big play working in a crowd. He will sometimes body trap, but his hands are soft enough to compensate. GRADE: 7.7 Leaping Ability: Nicks shows solid leaping ability, as he has made it a regular habit to fly over defenders and get vertical to secure the ball in a crowd. He times his leaps well and has confidence in his ability to reach for the throw at the high point. He knows how to get vertical when he has to and will not hesitate to fight for a high throw. GRADE: 7.4 Hands: What separate Nicks from the other two North Carolina receivers eligible for the draft (Brooks Foster, Brandon Tate) is his natural hands. He is a natural pass catcher and keeps on getting better. His soft hands let him snatch and pluck. He also makes very good body adjustments to deliver the over-the-shoulder grabs. His concentration skills are above average and it is rare to see him drop the ball due to a lack of focus. He does a fine job of catching away from his body and is fearless going for the ball in a crowd. He does a very good job of using his frame to shield the ball from the defender. GRADE: 8.5 Run After the Catch: Nance has that raw, natural power to turn a quick slant into huge real estate. Once he gets his clean release, he is a load to bring down after the catch. He goes full speed at the defender, knowing that he can easily break arm tackles with his strength. He has that peripheral vision and feel for coverages to weave in and out of traffic. At times, he can generate enough of a big burst, especially running the flash screen. He has more than enough acceleration to pick up extra yardage and shows the body control needed to turn up field. His acceleration after the catch will regularly make the slower tacklers miss him. GRADE: 8.2 Compares To: RODDY WHITE, Atlanta -- Actually, Hicks looks more like a smaller version of Keyshawn Johnson. He has very good power and runs precise routes, displaying some of the best hands in this draft. He won't beat a cornerback on deep patterns using pure speed, but he's a savvy route runner who is also light on his feet for a player his size.

Just for the record, and it may not actually make you feel better, but I do not think anyone here thinks you are a racist or a race baiter. At the same time, i think what you lack is understanding that some discussions are not for an internet message board. If you are w/ some close friends, who you know very well, and who know you very well, and you want to have a discussion about race, religion or any other subject many people are very passionate about, great. But here, you do not know the other posters, and they do not know you. Race is simply not a subject you bring up w/ strangers, and while we may all be bear fans, we are in non-football life, basically strangers. So it isn't that anyone thinks you are a racist or whatever, but simply that you don't realize those subjects okay to discuss, and those to avoid at all costs. This is one you avoid. For the record, based on some of the other comments, I am wondering if animal abuse is also one to avoid. This is NOT about you. Just looking like there are some posters very passionate on one side of the fense or the other on the issue, which begs the question of the properness of the subject. Properness? Is that even a word?

I know you don't want your age discussed, so I will leave that alone, but you really do have to understand time and place. Some here may actually agree w/ your thoughts. Your comments may actually have truth to them. Hell, flat out you could be right. But you know what? It doesn't matter. The board is simply not a proper place to even discuss race issues. I realize many people can have pleasant discussions about race, but this is simply not the place. Crap, even in trying to explain why, I have had to delete my own comments 4 times as I do not want them taken wrong, nor do I want to create another discussion. Just understand, the point is you are touching off on a subject that simply has no chance to lead to anything but upset posters. Hell, you even drop the names of Sharpton and Jackson, and while you may have a point on them today, others would point out how they have done more before you were born then you are likely to do in your life, and thus you might want to offer a touch of respect for past accomplishments rather than essentially calling them racists for recent years.

Thanks for the research Jason. I would point out to you that he believes a DWI is worse than what Vick did. His reasoning is a DWI could result in hurting another humans life, and thus is worse than actually destoying the life of a non-animal. I just disagree w/ this idea, though by no means accepting DWIs. W/ that said, I was under the believe that those who were nailed for DWIs were also getting punished by the league, especially and hit w/ multiple. As for the rest, good checking, and it supports my initial thought. He lists many arrests, but in only rare situations does Goddell drop the hammer w/o a conviction. He does at times w/ players who have a serious history (PacMan). Players like that are essentially on double secret probation, and simply being at a bar is enough to get nailed. But for others who do not have the history, he usually speaks w/ the player and if the players say they are innocent, then Goddell waits for the trial. Then he drops the hammer:)

I'm going to be sick. When is Angelo going to learn, and when are the rest of us? Why are we in the freaking position we are today? Because Angelo has ignored OL in the draft so damn often. He drafts OL only when his back is against the wall, and otherwise stocks up on 6th and 7th rounders to take flyers on OL prospects. But we are in our current situation (talking just about the OL) because every year, Angelo looks to add bandaids when the problem calls for a body cast. Think about what we have done and are talking about. Just a few weeks ago, many/most on this board agreed our OL sucked and needed a total overhaul. We signed an OT, who has one start in 4 seasons w/ two teams, and who we intend to play at OG. We signed an OT, coming off a bad year, who was called "turnstyle" by his former team, and who many here even say is a young version of St. Clair, who we thought was worth no more than a whopping $1.5m. Now we are talking about Orlando Pace, one of the true great LTs of his time, but who today is what? He is the Marvin Harrison of LTs. Yet fans here want to sign him immediatly and start him over Williams. Huh? How are these moves different from signing Reuben Brown, Garza, Miller? They play good/ decent for a year or so, and then fall off a cliff. And then we are back in the same place we began because we didn't draft shit, and thus had no one developed and ready to take over. But no worries. In a few more years Walter Jones may be slowing down, and I am sure we will then be interested. So many here like to talk about the well known definition of insanity, but to me, that is exactly what this offseason has been thus far w/ regard to our OL. More bandaids to try and cover up a massive wound.

Sorry, but I call BS all over the place here, and think you need to realize what year it is. You say, "players get DUIs all the time, and nobody cares/not many are suspended". As requested before, name one. I am not talking about a player several years ago, but name a player in the last year or two who was nailed for a DWI, and found no suspension by the league waiting for him. I agree w/ you if we were talking in past tense. It always ticked me off, and I spoke loudly about it, how a player would be nailed for beating his wife, and little to nothing was done about it. But that was yesterday and not today. Today, a player gets nailed by the league for throwing money around at a strip club. Today, a player gets suspended for having a gun in his vehicle, w/o even using it. That is the point I think others are trying to impress on you, but which you seem oblivious to. You want to live in the past and not the present. Today, the NFL is run by Goddell, who has come down w/ a hammer on players who get into trouble. Hell, he doesn't even hold of to make sure a player if found guilty of a crime, and has punished players for simply being arrested for things. More generally, I call BS that so many crimes happen, and people don't care, but harm a dog..... Simple as this. Take a look at the punishment for animal abuse, and take a look at the punishment for the other things you mention. Animal abuse may be a hot botton topic, but not nearly as much as you want to pretend. If it was, the push to make the punishment more severe would be more noticable. The punishment for animal abuse is still often no more than a small fine. Basically the equivalent to not wearing your seatbelt of running a stop sign. Are you honestly going to sit there and tell me an individual who is found guilty of beating a women gets a lesser penalty than one who is found guilty of animal abuse. The Vick thing was played much bigger due to the celebrity status, but most animal abusers get little more than a slap on the wrist or a reprimand. There was a recent incident where a man burned the eyes out of his dog, and his punishment was a small fine and some community service. And if you want to say you are talking about society and not just the law, I would say they are one in the same. When society gets upset enough about a crime, you see laws soon match the zeal. Thus far, the laws for animal abuse are still not much, but the laws on the books for the other crimes you mention are. I do not hold the life of an animal over that of a human. At the same time, it makes me sick when someone belittles legit sickness and crimes against animals, as I believe you have when you make a comment like, "Again, I prioritize human life over dog/cats/squirrels and chipmunks"

I think you are missing the point a bit. You talk about past crimes committed, and also say to check precedent on who has received a lifetime ban. The point you are missing is, the NFL has changed in the last few years under Goddell. In years past, you might have a leanord Little who had numerous DWIs, one of which ended in manslaughter, and that player would still have a place in the NFL. You would have a player convicted of beating his wife, or another women, and receive zero punishment from the NFL. Players would fear the law, but there was little to nothing done by the league. The league then would simply allow the law to deal w/ individuals, and do nothing on top of that. Today, we see things being done very different. Players who get into trouble today, whether a DWI or assualt charge, know they face a likely suspension by Goddell. The more severe the crime, the more severe the league punishment. You say to check out the history, but instead, why not list some recent examples of players who committed these awful crimes, and did so w/o punishment from the league. I would like to see an example of a player who was found guilty of beating his wife, or any women, and wasn't suspended by the league. For the record, one other aspect of Vicks crime was the gambling side of it, which many have said could be worse in the eyes of the league than the animal abuse itself.

One problem is, much of the 3-4 scheme DL is also seen in our 4-3 cover two. We may view a 260 lb DE as a DE, and a 3-4 scheme would view them as an OLB, but the point is, both would regard the player highly. Ditto IMHO at DT. A guy we like at DT may be seen as a DE in other scheme. And as for a bigger DT, that player too is desired to play the NT spot in a 3-4. So, w/ regard to the DL, I do not see the great value slipping this year. Also not sure how much the faster safeties drop. One, this is not a great S class anyway, thus players tend to be reached on rather than fall. Two, regardless what sort of scheme you run, a good safety is always a value. Where I do see potential on defense for "value". CB - While I disagree in principle, the reality is most believe a slower CB better fits a cover two scheme as the cover two uses more zone and less man. In man coverage, a slower CB can get killed, but in a zone coverage, the lack of speed is more masked. So I can see CB being a value pick this year, as in most years. IMHO, that is one reason Angelo has done well at CB (Tillman, Vasher, McBride, Graham). I don't think any of these players were viewed as great speed guys, and thus slipped in the draft. For other schemes, that may be a problem, but not so much for ours. LB - LB is the other area I think we can find value more and more. We give up size for speed. Urlacher is an exception to the rule, as he was always a freak w/ the athleticism of a 230 lb LB, yet w/ a nearly 260lb frame. But our next biggest LB is Briggs, who has actually bulked up to 240 over the last year or so, after playing closer to around 235 previously. Both SLBs (Hunter and Roach) weigh in at 238 and 234, respectively. Our depth ranges between 225 and 235. So, while many teams would pass on a 230lb LB questioning his size, I think that is the sort of player we like. LB may not be considered a high need, but is a position I think we can find talent later in the draft, as players we tend to like seem to slip on draft day. Offense could be interesting this year too. Couple positions I think we are looking for, which often tend to slip on draft day: WR - I believe we need a possession WR far more than a deep threat. On draft day, speed is so highlighted. A guy w/ great hands and route running tends to slip. While I remain very high on Nicks, there are other players (Robiskie, Iglesias) among others, who are as likely as not to slip due to their lack of 40 times. OL - In the past, we have always seemed to stress the importance of athleticism in our OL. Further, in looking at OTs, we always seemed to need a potential LT. This year, I think our view is different. W/ Williams, though unproven, at LT, we are looking more so for a pure RT. Further, I read more and more than we are now stressing size/strength more so than athleticism. So basically, we are looking for the grunt road graders. Those OL tend to slip a tad more in the draft. Teams will reach for an athletic OT who may potentially play either LT or RT, but a not so much for a pure RT. Similar at OG. Less athletic road graders can be found for better value than other, more athletic players who may have a chance to move outside in the NFL. RB - We have our starter and need depth/ change of pace. Some believe that could be Wolfe, but the point is, if we are looking for a compliment player, value can be found. RBs who do not have as great of an expectation to be an everydown player slip in the draft, and thus value can be found. TE - It kills me we could be looking to draft a TE, but the rumors say we want a better blocking TE, and that Davis didn't step up in that role. A blocking TE can be found late in the draft, as TEs w/ receiving go far earlier. Personally, I would rather just get a freaking FB that can block, but our staff seems to prefer the idea of a blocking TE.

I hate Edwards. He killed my FF team Seriously though, it is a bit of a tough call on Edwards. Nothing special his first two years, but looked like an elite WR his 3rd season, when everything seemed to click for Cle. But last year, he was just plain bad. His numbers reverted back to 2nd year level. His hands were among the worst in the NFL. He actually made Moose and TO look like top tier hands guys. His route running was poor, as was his attitude. One of the big problems w/ Edwards will be financial. He wants a mega deal, and anyone trading for him must be willing to shell out the coin. The problem is, w/ only one great season, two years ago, is he really worth the big bucks? In many ways, he is as great of a risk as a rookie, though you can easily argue w/ more upside.

Race, along with politics, has long been a sour note on this board. It probably wasn't a good idea to bring it into the discussion (where ya at NYC?). However, the simple fact is, neither of you know why Lovie, or any coach, would give Vick another chance. It very well could be race. It could be religion. You simply don't know. Maybe in fantasy land people don't do things based on religion, but not in reality. On the race aspect, I think it "may" be true, just as some white people will go out of their way to support others of their same color. But regaredless whether it is true or BS, I just don't think this board is the place to entertain such debates. A debate such as this simply can lead to little more than bad feelings. Also agreed that religion likely has as much to do w/ it as anything. But again, debate on religion simply has too great of a liklihood to end poorly, and should be avoided on this forum. As for whether he should get the privilege of playing the NFL again - and make no mistake, it's a privilege - that's up to the commissioner. Personally, I think he shouldn't be allowed to play again. He may have paid his debt to society, but like nfo said, that doesn't mean all doors automatically open back up to him again. Felons aren't allowed to vote, so there is clearly something that can affect a person after they serve the time for their crime. In this case, Vick should be allowed to pursue a job just like anyone else...but the NFL doesn't have to allow him back into the "company". Exactly. Besides voting, consider our military. There has been a recent debate whether or not the marines should begin allowing felons in their force, but the rule today is to just say no. Ditto for many companies around our country. Think about how many job applications ask whether or not you have been convicted of a felony. The reality is, just because you serve your time doesn't mean you are allowed by into EVERY aspect of society. Last but not least, the double standards you mentioned... Because I'm curious, which players in today's stricter NFL have committed, and been convicted of, a crime that you feel is equal to or worse than what Vick did, and have been let back into the league? Exactly. I think there is a difference between old ways and new ways. Today, players and owners enjoy a very rich situation, due in LARGE part to the media aspect of the sport. You can argue that it should be about the talent and not the character, but when those $100m contracts are affordable due to the fan support of the league, I think there is ample reason to want a cleaner league, and it appears that is very much what Goddell is trying to achieve. If Vick committed his crime a decade ago, he may well find it much easier to get back into the league, just as wife beaters, drug users, etc did. Today, you can not throw money around at a strip club w/o jeapordizing your career. It isn't just Vick or the crime against animals, but simply the new way in the league.

Fair enough. I think there is also value in considering whether or not the whole circus that would surely accompany the singage of Vick would be worth it. Nothing wrong with that. The circus aspect is a big part of it. Few signings would bring about as much anger, and a HUGE aspect of that is more than simply the cirme itself, but the status of the player who committed it. It's the whole double standard thing that bothers me. This guy would have paid his debt to society and would have been given a far greater punishment than anyone in the NFL has ever had. If his services are wanted, then he should be able to use his talents to legally provide for his family. Lets say we simply agree to disagree here. Understand, I am w/ Goddel and like the harsher punishments doles out to the criminals in our league. I simply believe playing in the NFL is not a right, but a priviledge, and believe some players lose that priviledge. Simply paying their debt to society does not mean they have earned the right to re-enter the NFL. If you have a felony on your record, you are not allowed to join the most part of the military (I think the army "may" allow, but not the others). Many jobs will not employ a felon. Just because you serve your time does not mean the slate is wiped clean. He may have the right to re-join society, but that doesn't mean he has the right to work anywhere. Some things are simply a priviledge, and you give that up when you commit a crime. No question there is a double standard in the NFL. I personally think it has more to do w/ the public perception of the player over the crime itself, but understand, i would be all for harsher penalties against others who commit their crimes against humans, as well as animals.

That is what I have been talking about too. There is not the depth of OTs this year as last, but that could only mean teams tend to reach for an OT sooner as the dropoff point is greater. I have said for a while now that I think Britton is easily a 1st round value, and also believe Loadholt could slip into the back area of the 1st round, similar to Duane Brown last year, who was considered a 2nd rounder by most. If the top 4 OTs are gone before we pick, I think both Britton and Loadholt go in the 1st also. There are a lot of OT needy teams in the backhalf of the 1st round, and I think w/ the dropoff seen after Loadholt, teams may be less willing to wait. After we pick, teams I see who could draft OT: Det (20)- Assuming they take Stafford, they could try to get their QB/OT in round one this year. Phily (21) - They lost both starting OTs, though they did sign Andrews, but Andrews is an injury risk. OT is considered a top need for them. Minny (22) - They have said for some time now that RT is considered a top priority. NE (23) - They OL was bad last year, and while most predict them to go defense, OT is still a need. Phily (28) - It is expected they will take OT at one of their two 1st round picks. NYG (29) - Enviable position to draft for talent over need, but OL is considered a need. Pitt (32) - Many predict they will draft OL, though maybe not OT. Still, they have tagged Starks again, and w/ his upcoming FA situation, combined w/ his age, I think a RT this year, ready to step in 2010, is more than a possibility. If the top 4 are gone before we pick, as many expect, that leaves Britton and Loadholt to be passed by all these teams. Some may not be looking at RT as highly as others, but in Det, Phily and Minny, I think you have three teams who would have OT very high on their shopping list. If they all do pass on at least one of the OTs, you then find a group of teams at the top of round 2 who, if they passed on OT in the 1st, would be primed to go OT in the 2nd (KC, Det, StL, Seattle, Cincy, Jax & Oak).

Actually, I think the point was the opposite. Used to be, when only a couple teams ran the 3-4, players who fit that scheme could be found in bargain areas. A DE who is viewed as a tweener (260lbs) might not be considered big enough to play a traditional 4-3 role, but that is actually the type of DE seen in cover two schemes. But now, w/ so many teams running a 3-4, those players are in higher demand, and thus the bargains may no longer be there. A player like English may have fallen in past years due to his size, but this year, his stock is up.

For the record, I think you will find me against adding most of the offenders of the crimes you mention. I will admit there is a bit of a double standard, but I think it is more than simply what the crime is. IMHO, a big aspect of this is the star status of the player. If we added the WR from Jax (which I am against) for example, it would be a move few nationally would even notice. He simply is not a big name player. If we added Vick, it would be front page news nationally. Whether you care for the double standard or not, that is simply reality. Adding a questionable character who is more under the radar is one thing, but adding a player as high profile as Vick is another IMHO.

Here are a few tid bits from his scouting report, Football Sense: Nicks only needs normal reps to learn and retain plays. He shows good awareness and instincts and understands the game and coverages. He adjusts well on the move and has no problems dealing with classroom work. When he gets open, he knows what his job is - to move the chains. GRADE: 7.3 Character: Nicks is highly respected, considered a good guy and is highly recommended by his coaches. There are no off-field issues or skeletons hidden in his closet. He has a quiet, yet friendly personality and is a self-starter with confidence in his ability to get the job done. He's the type of player coaches know will need no structure and is actually used as a mentor for the younger players due to his advanced maturity. Talk to coach Bruce Davis and you will hear the enthusiasm in his voice talking about what Nicks meant to the team. GRADE: 7.8 Work Habits: Nicks applies himself in practices and games. He is a self-starter in the training room and an adequate student. He is a team leader and takes pride in that role, but is not the rah-rah type who needs to shout to get his point across. "We thought all along that Nicks was among the very special players," Davis said. "He's a fluid, talented player, and that, combined with the progress he's showing, is encouraging. He's a guy who can develop even further." GRADE: 6.9 I have never read anything which questioned his work ethic, on the field, in practice or in the weight room. I have never read questions of his ability to maintain weight. So while the recent added weight may be a bit of a concern, lacking any history of similar, I think it is an isolated incident simply related to the injury. As for his wonderlic, while that too raises a flag, at the same time, he seems to have great football sense. Over and over again, I have read that Nicks is a very fast study. He needs little time after learning a new play to get it down, and is the sort of player who does spend his time in the film room. So again, while the wonderlic may raise a flag, that score does not seem relate to his past history of learning new plays. I look at Nicks and see the exact time of player that often does tend to fall in a draft because, while dominant on the field, when looking at his numbers in shorts, he is lacking. In the offseason, it is like GMs forget what a player does on the field and can only remember what they do in shorts. In shorts, numerous other WRs are better, but on the field, I think few can compare. For our offense, I simply believe Nicks offers more than any other WR in the draft, minus Crabtree, and that includes Maclin, who may be an elite talent, but not as good of a fit IMHO for what we need.

Do you really think we'd ever "reach" for a player like Nicks in round #1? This is my new favorite draft site since it projects where over 700 players should be drafted http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospec...amp;start_row=1 They have him listed as #34 with a 40 time of 4.51. It's been well documented that taking a WR in round #1 is risky business. I can see us going after DHB because he has the potential to be a legit #1 (although he doesn't have great hands which is troubling). But there's no way we take Nicks. I didn't say I thought we "would" take Nicks at 18. What I said is I believe he would be close enough to slot value to be worth the 18th pick. In other words, I would do it. Never said Angelo would. I did however also say that I think his draft stock could go back up after he shows he has lost the weight. Also, regarding Nicks, you point out his 40 time. Honestly, I can not begin to explain how little I care about that. Boldin, who many have compared Nicks to, ran like a 4.7/40 at the combine. He sure looks faster on the field. Same w/ Nicks. I think DHB would be one of the worst possible draft picks we could make. Problem is, I think he is also maybe the highest WR on Angelo's board. On paper, there is little not to love. He w/o question has the size and speed to dominate. Problem is, that simply has not translated to the field so much. DHB is exactly the type of player I worry about. He was a decent enough prospect, but suddenly, he shows up at the combine and does awesome. In shorts, on a track, this kid looks like a top 10 pick. Unfortunately, football is not played on a track, or in shorts. DHB may well be more than just an athlete, but he is raw and I think it will take great coaching and a great overall situation (QB, OL, solid WR compliment) for DHB to develop, and I feel we lack most everything necessary to develop such a talent. If you can get a #2 and a comparable #1 the next year, why wouldn't you do it? Or if you could get 2 #1's. I'd move down in a heart-beat. Although it ultimately depends on the talent available. Last year the elite OT were going to be gone quickly. The previous year Greg Olsen wasn't going to last. Both of them were damn good talents that we couldn't have grabbed later. That certainly was not true of the 2006 draft when we traded out of the #25 spot. Look, I am not talking about ignoring all teams who call talking trade. Sure, you listen to offers. But you talk about two #1s? We are at 18. If we moved down as much as 10 spots, that would equal about 240 points (trade value chart) which is just a 3rd round pick. Sure, a team "could" offer more, but I think you are putting the value a bit high. And if we trade out of the 1st round all together, then I am simply not a big fan. I just worry that we trade down too far, and miss out on too much. You say this year is more like 2006 than '07 or '08. Even if that is true, I disagree it didn't hurt us in 2006 to trade down. I know there is NO EVIDENCE what-so-ever to support my belief, but I still today do not believe we traded down for DM. I believe we traded down looking to get one of the LBs we were high on, but for better value. In that draft, I think we were looking to draft a LB as there was a pretty high level of expectation we would lose Briggs. He was entering the final season of his contract, and negotiations had not gone well. He wanted to be paid like Urlacher, but we were not willing to meet that demand. The WLB position is a huge key in a cover two, and I think we were looking to prepare for his exit. That year, in the draft, there was a very good looking crop of LBs. I think about 5 LBs had already been drafted early, and at our pick, I think we were looking at some more good prospects in DeMeco Ryans, D'Qwell Jackson, Rocky McIntosh and Thomas Howard. I really believe we traded down thinking one, or more, of these LBs would have been available for us when we picked later. But a run began,. Ryans went to Houston w/ the 1st pick of the 2nd round, and by the 6th pick, all four LBs were gone. We took Daneil Manning, and Angelo has always said he was the player we targeted all along, but what else is he supposed to say? So, I realize I do not have evidence to backup my belief, but that is simply how I see it. I actually believe similar in the other two relatively recent 1st round trade downs. In 1999, I believe we had our sights set on Culpepper, not Cade, when we traded down, and were shocked when Minny took Pepper. We then reached for Cade, saying he was our pick all along, but I never believed that. In 2003, I believe we traded down looking at one of the DTs, but again, there was a run and we ended up on the outside looking in, and ended up taking Michael Haynes. Sullivan, Kevin Williams, Suggs and Kennedy were all player we were supposedly very high on, but all were taken in the picks between our original and our traded down pick. So the point of all this is, while it is easy to say we can trade down and get the player we want, I am simply not sure I buy that. Looking at this year. At WR, if we trade down, we could see a run on WR (which many already predict) which finds, DHB, Nicks, Harvin, Britt and even Robiskie gone before we pick. IMHO, it is very possible all are gone before the end of the 1st round. At OT, assuming the top 4 are gone, there are only two other OTs really warranting a solid grade (Britton & Loadholt) and I believe it is very risky to trade down believing one will still be there when we pick again. Trading down and (a) getting better value and ( adding another pick sounds great, but I simply believe we are better off simply taking the player we want, rather than hoping to get that player for a better value.

Problem is, what will his league suspension be? Correct me if I am wrong, but he has already been nailed for a 4 game suspension. If he gets another suspension, which is expected, how long will it be for? Is he really worth the trouble?

It is one thing for a person to get a 2nd chance in life or in society, but that does not mean he deserves a 2nd chance in the NFL. While I am not saying everyone must be a choir boy in the NFL, the reality is we are talking about a league of celebrities watching and followed by millions of children. Due to this, I do believe it is reasonable to see a higher standard. If you want to argue Vick did his time and deserves a 2nd chance, fine. But that doesn't mean he warrants a 2nd chance in every aspect of society. I personally would not allow him back in the NFL. I am sure someone will sign him, but I pray it will not be my team.

I still think Nicks is worth the 18th pick. Top end of his value, but i think it is there. Most mocks I have seen have him graded out in the 18-26 range. Robiskie seems more like a 2nd round value. As for Britt, I am just not a big fan. Two things about him. One, he is known for drops. That is something we want to improve on, not add. Two, he seems like a WR who was able to dominate w/ size, but that is much harder in the NFL, and some question whether he has the separation ability, and not just due to 40 speed. As for trading down, I think options come up on draft day, though it is harder to predict today. A team might want to jump ahead of Minny and a few others after us for Britton. Or maybe a team is in love w/ DHB. A team could like a CB who falls to us, or even a DL. Point is, you just never know. Teams fall in love w/ a player, and sometimes are willing to move up to get him. Personally, I still question the logic of moving down. I think we are best off simply standing pat, and taking a player at 18. I would much prefer to do this rather than move down, watch a run at a position begin, and end up on the outside looking in.

For the record, I am not saying Loadholt isn't a 2nd rounder. I think the 2nd round is where his value is. I simply believe, personal opinion, that he could slip into the backend of the 1st round. He is the highest graded OT after Britton, and I think Britton is gone by around 22 (if not 18). If that happens, I think a team near the back of the 1st could reach a bit for Loadholt, as (a) he will not last long and ( the OT depth is not great, and the dropoff gets considerable. What I do not see is him falling to the 3rd. To hard to see no OT being drafted for so long.

Right now, I think the order could be WR - FS - OL. Frankly, I am not even sold we will go OL w/ our 3rd pick, but just for argument sake. I think DHB is our WR. I think our staff likes athletes over football players, and to me, that screams DHB. In the 2nd, I think it would be Johnson, as I believe Delmas is gone. As for 3rd round OL, maybe Meridith, Kropog or even Herman Johnson.

I think both Nicks and Loadholt have a better chance of going in the 1st, rather than falling to the 2nd. Nicks looks like he is slipping some due to the weight, but if he starts showing up to teams facilities for private workouts w/ the weight back down, I think his stock returns. As for Loadholt, I think he has a chance to sneak into the backend of the 1st, maybe Phily's 2nd 1st round pick. As for the mock, taking a DL in the 1st would make me sick.

I have no problem w/ Buenning, but I am not giong to factor him in my plans. That doesn't mean he can't step up and win a job. It just means I have not seen enough to warrant planning around him.