selection7

Cool. Also, check this out. http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb At least one source suggests why his underwhelming stats are misleading and actually should have been 22% better to accurately portray Cutler's effect on the offense. I got it from a yahoo article...though that same article's author said that the step down to the Bears' offense could mean his numbers decline and I'm thinking "Don't give me that. If his numbers decline much he'll have Orton-like numbers." I expect this 25 year old to just keep getting better...after he's had time to learn the offense of course, so we have to remember to be patient the first half of the season. Also, Cutler will benefit from basically all the same faces on offense that Orton had to deal with except with improved offensive tackles. I'm ready to hear his first Bears press conference.

So you guys are loving talking him up and getting excited. Tell me about it and be more specific. I don't know enough about him and his stats are only slightly better than Orton. I want to be excited too.

I'm feeling a little sick hearted right now that we just gave up so much for someone that I'm not convinced was significantly better than Orton and is apparently a bit of a baby. It's ironic that right in the middle of doing the best job of developing a QB since Jimmy Mac we trade him away. But that's life. Cutler grew up a Bears fan right? I'll just keep thinking about that. Meanwhile, let's all make a pact to be supportive of Cutler... as long as he plays with character and leaves his childish brooding behind. We booted Cedric out of town for that crap. By the way, type II (adult onset) diabetes should not affect his longevity since the typical Qb doesn't play past 35 anyway. I'm not a doctor though.

"Fair enough"?? Mangini can't blame the front office for the Brett Favre decision. 2 seasons ago Favre almost led his team to the Super Bowl, last season he got hurt but how would you predict that being an issue when it's Brett Favre?...not to mention he looked great before the injury progressed, including an 6 TD/no picks game. His team was markedly better with Breatt Favre, and yet Mangini still couldn't quite get them into the playoffs.

His signing bonus was only 1.7M on a 48M contract! Look at the contract we'd be taking on: 7.6M 2009, 7.9M 2010, 16.3M 2011 ...so we'd really only get him for two years. If he performs and improves (based on reasonable expectations), his 2010 contract looks like really good value, but his 2011 contract is pretty killer (assuming no wild changes in upcoming union renegotiations). And keep in mind our cap charge for Orton is a paltry 1.42M this year. So even if he's not quite as good as Cutler, he's a steal this season (young, 6'4" with a strong arm and character, only one season as an anointed starter under his belt should mean upside) and could possibly be cheap if re-upped after showing further improvement through part of this next season. http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpag...NFL&id=3608 http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=3214 Random points: Kyle lost 5 fumbles last year to Cutler's only 2, which helps balance Cutler's worse Qb/int ratio. Kyle was 6-1 last season (the loss was Week 2's 17-20 Carolina loss) when the D allowed less than 21 points.

Why be so against Pace unless he's going to cost alot? In the NFL you need depth and it wouldn't surprise me a bit if by being the backup Williams actually gets to play most of the season because, for example, in game 5 Pace gets hurt. On some teams, Pace might have to play through the pain and be criticized at the end of the season for his poor play, on ours, we could just stick Williams in. Once the season gets going it might be better to give Williams first team reps just to rest the veteran Pace anyway, so he'd get good experience. It just reminds of the Cedric Benson debacle. The Bears don't get brownie points for developing a player. All that matters is how good is the guy starting and how much is he getting paid. Doesn't matter if he was a draft pick or even a high draft pick. Hopefully we've learned that lesson. I was well convinced about the whole not moving him to RT thing though.

I don't understand why he's so good. But then, I never have closely watched him play. I'm looking at the stats and seeing a guy with 18 picks last season and a QB rating that is all of 6 points higher than Orton's and thinking I hope we don't buy the farm for this guy...we've got so many needs. It makes me wonder if as Bears fans we're not so psychologically damaged (I guess we have every right to be) from year-in year-out quarterback woes that we'll shoot ourselves in the foot just to distract from the other pain. Orton throws less picks per TD tha Cutler does. But isn't Cutler supposed to be mobile?

Keep in mind cocaine isn't a recreational drug. While there have been plenty of athletes who've managed to keep it barely under control, I'm sure there are others who have wrecked their life. If Matt has clearly been sober (based on constant drug testing ) for many, many months, then I can go along with a second chance. But even then, as the previous poster stated, only if Matt doesn't have other personal/attitude problems. I want to be proud of my Bears as much as I want them to win. I don't get one cent when the Bears win and I don't have any reason to feel ashamed when they put on a poor effort. If, however, the Bears are full of nothing but a bunch of low-class criminals, that says something about me if I call them my favorite team.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. People without character or self-control who weren't raised right can do some pretty horrible stuff when they get angry. But unless Vick feels (something along the lines of) that dogs have no soul and therefore their sufferering and killing is no different than the suffering of ant, for example, then he would have had to summon up a great deal of evil to enslave and torture with such clearheaded intention for years and years. I absolutely agree that such a person is more depraved than someone who beats people up...possibly even murder if it's truly a crime of passion. Keep in mind that last statement makes no comment about which crime is worse...just which perpetrator is more depraved. According to a recent article, apparently Vick thinks he'll get paid as much as 10mil a year. My guess is that the PR would be so bad that no team will really even want him, but ultimately for a small fraction of that salary, some team will pick him up with the hope that after being on the roster for a year or two the public (and their fans) will get used to the idea and calm down. Things he has going against him now that he didn't before: ---now everyone knows he's not a high character guy ---he's been out of the NFL for a year ---horrible, horrible PR issues

I would be beyond surprised if we end up with Vick. No chance. Unlike most of those other incidents discussed about other players, what Vick did was premeditated and over and over again. It's not like that first guy was convicted of beating his pregnant girlfriend over and over again over several years (in fact the charges were dropped). If Vick had an understanding of the wrong-ness of causing suffering to animals, what he did was some seriously, seriously evil stuff. Throwing beer bottles and street fights don't compare. Having said that, believe it or not, I'm firmly on the side of animals are not humans and am often very saddened at the cruelty our fellow man will shell out at other humans one moment while crying "animal abuse!" the next. I'm more interested in whether Vick has a depraved thought process; that's a less debatable subject than how bad is animal cruelty. Also, has any Goodell-era player gone to prison for a year or more and come back to the NFL? If not, then I might as well presume that Vick being blackballed is fair.

oh well

If the NFL loses it's cap I'm not sure I could continue to be a big Bears fan anymore. Heaven knows I've been a faithfull fan through thick and thin, so it's not about loyalty; it would be about the NFL. Specifically, it's about how I could manage to convince myself that there was any sport involved in watching an unlevel playing field...or maybe I should say such an in-your-face unlevel playing field rather than the subtle advantages teams have now such as better stadiums or a better market for allowing a player to sign a big $$ endorsement deal.

David Terrell. It wasn't that long ago. We missed on that one of course but one could question whether being in Chicago wasn't the difference between just being a "dissapointment" and being a "bust".

Who's gonna play MLB if Urlacher is gone? Definitely not anyone with experience or who is proven at the positon or being captain of the defense. What's especially silly about it is that Boldin is only 2 years younger than Url...not exactly a spring chicken. I'm also of the mind that you don't trade away the face of your franchise for short term goals. The negative effect that would have on Chicago would last for many years.

I'd never thought about it before, but almost all other things being equal, why wouldn't a reciever want the more aggressive QB? Those picks don't go on his record. The deep ball plays make the highlight reels. Of course an overly aggressive QB may give the team a worse chance to win, but I can see a WR being able to convince himself that there's not really a difference between the two other than he gets bigger stats with the aggressive QB.

The defender hit him, jostlling Warner's ball but it never leaves his hand. He may have trapped it between his forearm and palm to help maintain control. He still delivers a pass, though his arm was being yanked around so all he could get off was a duck. By your standards, every pass Doug Flutie ever threw was a fumble;) Sarcasm aside, it was a tough call, but jostling the ball just isn't good enough. The exclamation mark on it is that when he was hit, he hadn't even begun a forward motion. The defender put none of that forward impetus on the ball. He simply caused a bad pass. And Warner wasn't trying to tuck it either. With regard to the announcers, I at least expect them to question whether the ball came out rather than to only harp on whether his arm was going forward at the point of contact, making it seem like they were clueless to that other consideration. It's actually kind of impressive that Warner's grip withstood that thrasing, rather than the way it's ended up going down, which is that he fumbled away the Cards' last ditch effort.

Ok. When I read your post, I skimmed the whole thread but failed to re-read the thread title.

Though he might have been properly coached by the Pats such that he continues to develop, leading into a very successful QB down the road. Plus, he's had the advantage of getting to watch Tom Brady every day. If he went to the Vikings, he'd definitely have a good running game to keep the heat off. For comparisons sake, Orton had 18 TDs and 12 picks while Cassel had 21 TDs and 11 picks with much more talent on his offense. Both players are 26yo, 6'4", and were drafted in 2005. Orton had a QB rating of 80 (same as Roethlisburgers coincidentally), Cassel 89. If this were a video game of Madden football, there's no way in hell I'd pay 4 times more for Cassel if I already had Orton on my team. Real life is more complicated though. I'm curious to see how well Cassel does, wherever he goes.

Also, give the Cards some credit for their own penalties. It was undisciplined football during the most important game of their lives. The Cards clearly won the second half (save for that last desperation drive), but they also clearly lost the first, and I agree with the sentiment that the Steelers deserved the win.

To clarify for the poster who thought Warner clearly fumbled on that last play. Wacth again. Warner was obviously hit before his arm started going forward...right on the money, the arm and the hand holding the ball. However, that son-of-a-gun actually didn't drop it. He has big hands maybe. His arm motion was so ravaged by the would-be sack that the pass came out very duck-like, but he still had that ball grasped and delivered it forward. What was Kurt gonna do? Be dramatic about it? He was probably already feeling sick to his stomach, figuring a desperation bomb was useless anyway. With regard to Al and Madden, why are some plays like that so easy for fans to notice but a Super Bowl winning head coach turned announcer and his fellow announcer, both with NFL experince and decades calling games don't notice that Warner never actually dropped the ball? I understand that the natural inclination is to assume, since it's such a rare thing for a duck that bad to not be the result of lost grasp. But geez, these guys are supposed to be the cream of the crop, and not even a mention. It makes me wonder if announcers don't have a sort of "rule" that if it's clear the issue won't be addressed during the game, and the play is not blatantly obvious, that they're better off just pretending they didn't notice. Maybe to keep the NFL brass on their good side since Goodell et. al. probably don't like the announcers drumming up controversy.

I don't think anybody in this thread said the Bears should want him (for that price). If the Bears D had played the way they used to be able to, I'd say we would be one of those teams that could use a Super Bowl ready QB right away, but we're not, and Kyle is much, much cheaper and has developed well, giving hope for even more development in the future ...especially considering last season was his first as a legitimate (non-injury) starter.

Yeah, I wouldn't have commented if the guy's name was Stephen Adams. ...but possibly the alliteration of the double K's makes parents with the last name Kammerdiener more likely to name their kid a first name that also starts with K. And there's not that many common anglo boy names that start with K besides Kevin. Kyle, Kenneth, Kirk ...

A lot of people see Kurt Warner as very dependent on the system. Because he's so old it limits the teams that are really willing to pay up to pretty much only the teams that feel they are a QB away from the Superbowl AND where their offensive system and OL protection matches up with Warner's needs. That lack of demand for him should drive his price down. Also, Favre, one of the best QB's of all time, was on the end of his contract signed years ago and he was traded, not a free agent situation. So that comparison is apples to oranges. Also, many people even believe Favre will be let go this season even though his team more than doubled their win total from the previous season after Favre joined while the team he left only managed to win 1/3 of the games they won the previous year with Favre at the helm. If the Jets let release him, it'll be because 12M is too much. On the other hand, Warner played two really great games in the NFC championship and the Super Bowl. How a player performs in big games can make a big difference. He also has 3 super bowls of experience on his resume.

I went to grade school with a Kevin Kammerdiener. I'm a decade older than this kid in the article though so it's not him. Weird though.

Haven't you heard the Bears refer to their D as the "Bears 2" or somesuch? Lovie's Cover 2 is absolutely different under him than most any other coach. Your assumption that we play our corners off just because they suck at man has not been well supported in my opinion. At this point, our guys are bound to be a little soft in their man-to-man skills because they don't get the practice, but that doesn't mean they don't have the tools to do more than they have been.