I will say this once again

[azbearsfan]

1a) I think Turner has done slightly above average. He has not done well.

1b) I'm sorry, but the FB dive to McKie is a bad play 99.9% of the time. If he busts it loose, he gets max 3 yards. If he fails, he gets stuffed for -3 yards. There just isn't room for error, and most of the time he doesn't have enough speed or running ability to get the positive yards. It's a horrible play in nearly every situation.

1c) I know the "quit calling the FB dive play"-threads are getting old...but not nearly as friggin old as watching the play unfold, destined to fail, and Turner keeps calling them. Besides, that's the point of the message board - to discuss the finer points of Bears football.

1d) You clearly don't understand what I'm talking about, and you don't read the whole posts. The 4th and 1 play is not nearly the same as the 3rd and 1 play. One third down, there is a much better chance of play action pass, so the defense has to respect that. Hence, greater success from the RB (not the FB). On fourth down, everyone in the building knows it's going to be a run up the pipe. If you don't see the fundamental difference between play-calling on third and fourth down in the NFL, then I am giving you too much credit. When it's third and less than 3, nearly every play call should involve giving the ball to Forte (or Jones), or running a play-action-fake off of that same play.

 

2) Honestly, I had no care one way or the other. At the time it seemed like a good play, to squib it, but I didn't like the distance on the squib. It looked like Gould slowed up. Since then, however, I've heard some very good breakdowns about why it's a near guarantee that kicking it deep would have been a better call...and it's hard to disagree.

 

3) Actually, dude, I don't get angry about it. I just find that you're more ignorant about this discussion than the people you think are ignorant. Hell, you all but agreed with me in a recent post when you questioned the defensive strategies employed by the Bears. The way I see it, you have no right to question any play call by any coach, any draft selection, or any decision in management...because they are right by your standards. I happen to think that many guys in the pros out-think themselves. It's the same in any profession. People that have been doing things so long lose focus on the basics, and they try to be too smart instead of just doing what works, or taking advantage of what the defense gives you. For instance, the way our DBs CONSTANTLY get burned by the slant. How the hell does Babich not see this and adjust? I know you agree with this. And since you do, surely you can see the logic in the fact that while all of us agree we couldn't do a better job overall than the guys doing it, we can still see flaws in their game plan, or draft selections. Actually, it reminds me of a story...

 

A truck slammed into a bridge and there was a huge accident. The truck got wedged under the bridge so tight that no matter the pull or push applied, it just wouldn't move. It was possible that someone was stuck in there still, and they had to move it. Police and firemen brought in machines, lubrication, and every sort of pulley one could think of. Nothing budged. By this time the traffic had backed up. A young father and his 6-year old walked up to see what was going on, and to see if there was any way they could help. The father asked a firefighter about the problem, about how horrible the situation was, and the father shocked to hear all the details. Just then the little kid spoke up, "Why not let the air out of the tires?"

 

 

ok. But if you find me ignorant and you "know" football and all of these claims, I find it interesting that you dont know that in a cover two scheme that its not the db's job to cover the slant. Its the LB's who are supposed to get underneath it and deny the throw. The CB's are suppose to play it over the top and make the tackle once they catch it. Last game, if you watch the tape you will find the nickel and Briggs were not getting enough depth and width in their drops. And thats when I get into the technique vs scheme stuff with nfo.

 

And, bro, I understand everything you are talking about. Just that alot of the time I just find it wrong. Plus, alot of times you exaggerate and make assumptions to prove you "know" football. I've never said that just because someone is not an NFL coach they can't criticize. Thats something you have made up and ran with. I have said that about you personally, because back when you claimed you are a better drafter than JA, I found that ridiculous and hilarious. And jason I KNOW you get mad, because I have witnessed it in all your little jabs.

 

 

 

And that's a fun little story, and I'm glad you put it in your post, because it really exemplifies my point about you. Its not that cut and dry. What if you let the air out of the tires and the bridge crumbles, lands on the firefighters, kills them, and all the people in the cars on the bridge get crumpled on, etc, because you let a 6 year old call the shots when he knows nothing about engineering, foundations, etc ? You are like the six year old in this case. You are calling for what, you call, common sense moves. Make the DB's press and have the DE's work inside moves, etc. But what is that going to do to the foundation of the defense? What happens when the integrity of the defense is compromised because your have the leverage player working underneath the tackles block without being replaced by anybody? What happens is they start killing us with screens and the QB is able to roll and create more opportunity. What happens when you put our below average speed corners on the line? "Steve Smith" kills us.

 

 

The bottom line for me is that I trust people who have the experience and training in the NFL arena, "the engineers", to help us in the event of "a bridge accident" than a self proclaimed guru "the six year old".

 

So lets move on.

[jason]

Believe what you want about 6 year olds, bridges, and whatever. I merely put it in there because you didn't seem to understand it...and it seems that you still don't. Hell, you don't even get the analogy. If they were tugging the thing, pushing the thing, and trying lube to pull the thing out, then surely letting the air out of the tires would have done nothing the others wouldn't have. If anything there would have been less structural damage when letting the air out. But, thanks for playing.

 

You can consider them engineers or whatever, but you've missed the point. There are thousands, maybe millions, of people who are supposed professionals doing their jobs. These people who claim to be professionals make drastic blunders on a daily basis. These people tend to get fired. The Bears coaching staff for the last 20 years has fallen into this group. This year's staff isn't incompetent enough to be fired, but they clearly aren't making progress. If we were comparing it to any other job, they'd be in the couseling phase before getting terminated. Or maybe even fired by now. To be a professional at anything there has to be improvement, and when mistakes are made they have to be remedied. This coaching staff has barely done either, if at all. I think the difference is truly in this paragraph. I happen to think they are one of the many people who claim to be a professional at something, but just aren't great at it. They're just average. You just automatically assume that they fall outside of that grouping because of the fact that there are so few coaches/GMs - while ignoring the fact that they get fired so often and criticized by their own so regularly.

 

Maybe you're the kind of guy who blindly trusts someone who is in a position, or has a title, just because they are who they are. I, however, like to go into the details, and realize where that person is screwing up. I like to know what they know, and try to discuss why or how things can be improved. Perhaps you'd like to do some reading in your spare time about the work of some of these professionals you so admire:

Bridge Engineers

 

As for the what if statements you put in there...well, that just proves you don't understand what I'm saying. If those things happen, then you ADJUST. It's a difficult concept, I know, but perhaps you and our coaches could look it up and apply it more frequently, or at least as frequently as the design appears faulty. I know what the cover-2 is, I know how it is run, I know about the responsibilities. But when the slant is killing your team, you make an adjustment. Either you move the DBs up, which I advocate, or you spread the LBs out a little, so that they are there to crush the WR, which I think is the lesser of the two options. The same applies to the DE routes. You don't do it every time. You scheme. You adjust.

 

Last but not least, you like to talk about my exaggeration, but you fail to mention yours. I didn't say that I could pick better than JA. I said that I have a better record of first round picks than JA, and whoever else made the first round picks for the Bears over the last ten years or so. I stand by it because it's true. I don't have nearly the resources to get into the lower rounds and find the gems at places like Hofstra, but I watch enough football to know where the big school studs are, and my first rounds would have had a much higher success percentage than that of the Bears.

 

But, yeah, let's drop it. I'll continue to believe that in some circumstances, I, like many other fans with knowledge, could do better than our coaches and front office. And you can continue to believe that our front office and coaches are godly.