Draft and Free Agency needs

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Bears offseason priorities IMO:

 

1 Take care of their own

a.) Olin Kreutz - ask him if he can go for 2 more yrs, he's not playing for anyone else. He said he may retire

b.) Caleb Haine - Still not a guy you want running the helm if Jay goes down for long, but not much out there better

c.) Pisa Tinoisamoa - Solid guy next to Url/Briggs. Remember the SLB takes on more blocks and thats the scheme.

d.) Corey Graham - Can fill in spot duty at CB, but great ST. Worth an extension imo

e.) Daniel Manning - Seems like he's becoming "demanding", make a minium offer. Hate to see him returning against us.

f.) Anthony Adams - He seemed to run out of gas later in the season, but rotational player.

 

So the guys I would like to retain are not the most important guys on the team, but solid contributors. Not going to break any banks for this group. But keeping them will allow team to catch back up in the draft.

 

2 Key FA acquisitions

a.) Vincent Jackson/Sydney Rice - The team needs a go to guy that can get up and pull down Cutlers high balls. Taking Rice from the Queens can work 2 ways for improving the Bears. Kinda like Chestor Taylor as Minny missed the 3rd down back.

b.) Logan Mankins - Improving the offensive line any way possible is the biggest key to the Bears success.

 

3 NFL Draft

1-29 Tyron Smith LOT USC - First round picks need to be spent on key positions. Can Chris Williams/Omiyale excel and be the LT 6 yrs from now? Most likely not, so Smith can learn from Tice, add some more weight and possibly be the future anchor of the line.

2-62 Mike Pouncey OG/C Florida - Pouncey will solidify the other Guard spot opposite of Mankins until Kreutz hangs it up.

3-93 Marvin Austin DT NC - Suspended last year and character issues made Austin a risk, but he fits the Harris mold.

4-125 Richard Sherman CB Stanford - at 6-2 191 pounds Sherman has decent size and looked good at the Senior Bowl

5-157 Derrick Locke RB Kentucky - 5-8 186 4.4 speed. He played much bigger at the senior bowl, probably go RD3?

6-189 Ross Homan OLB Ohio St - Can take on blocks and play the pass, along w/ tackle. Fits the SLB for the Bears.

 

WR S Rice WR E Bennett RT J Webb RG MP ouncey C Olin Kreutz LG L Mankins LT C. Williams/Smith TE Olsen WR Knox

QB J Cutler

RB M Forte

 

CB P Tillman DE J. Peppers DT T Harris DT A Adams DE I Idonje CB T Jennings

OLB P Tinoismoa MLB B Urlacher OLB L Briggs

SS C Harris FS M Wright/D Manning

[Guest TerraTor]

Dont trust Smith until the combine. This team doesnt need a 280lb OT. If hes 298/305... then well maybe

[balta1701-A]

Dont trust Smith until the combine. This team doesnt need a 280lb OT. If hes 298/305... then well maybe

At the end of the first round, sometimes that's the kind of thing you want...a guy that has dropped and been counted out.

[madlithuanian]

I bacially love your plan.

 

I can't attest to the draft as I'm not that up on this year's prospects. But the logic behind it sounds good.

 

Bears offseason priorities IMO:

 

1 Take care of their own

a.) Olin Kreutz - ask him if he can go for 2 more yrs, he's not playing for anyone else. He said he may retire

b.) Caleb Haine - Still not a guy you want running the helm if Jay goes down for long, but not much out there better

c.) Pisa Tinoisamoa - Solid guy next to Url/Briggs. Remember the SLB takes on more blocks and thats the scheme.

d.) Corey Graham - Can fill in spot duty at CB, but great ST. Worth an extension imo

e.) Daniel Manning - Seems like he's becoming "demanding", make a minium offer. Hate to see him returning against us.

f.) Anthony Adams - He seemed to run out of gas later in the season, but rotational player.

 

So the guys I would like to retain are not the most important guys on the team, but solid contributors. Not going to break any banks for this group. But keeping them will allow team to catch back up in the draft.

 

2 Key FA acquisitions

a.) Vincent Jackson/Sydney Rice - The team needs a go to guy that can get up and pull down Cutlers high balls. Taking Rice from the Queens can work 2 ways for improving the Bears. Kinda like Chestor Taylor as Minny missed the 3rd down back.

b.) Logan Mankins - Improving the offensive line any way possible is the biggest key to the Bears success.

 

3 NFL Draft

1-29 Tyron Smith LOT USC - First round picks need to be spent on key positions. Can Chris Williams/Omiyale excel and be the LT 6 yrs from now? Most likely not, so Smith can learn from Tice, add some more weight and possibly be the future anchor of the line.

2-62 Mike Pouncey OG/C Florida - Pouncey will solidify the other Guard spot opposite of Mankins until Kreutz hangs it up.

3-93 Marvin Austin DT NC - Suspended last year and character issues made Austin a risk, but he fits the Harris mold.

4-125 Richard Sherman CB Stanford - at 6-2 191 pounds Sherman has decent size and looked good at the Senior Bowl

5-157 Derrick Locke RB Kentucky - 5-8 186 4.4 speed. He played much bigger at the senior bowl, probably go RD3?

6-189 Ross Homan OLB Ohio St - Can take on blocks and play the pass, along w/ tackle. Fits the SLB for the Bears.

 

WR S Rice WR E Bennett RT J Webb RG MP ouncey C Olin Kreutz LG L Mankins LT C. Williams/Smith TE Olsen WR Knox

QB J Cutler

RB M Forte

 

CB P Tillman DE J. Peppers DT T Harris DT A Adams DE I Idonje CB T Jennings

OLB P Tinoismoa MLB B Urlacher OLB L Briggs

SS C Harris FS M Wright/D Manning

 

[defiantgiant]

That all looks good to me, although I'd rather have VJax than Sidney Rice (fewer injury concerns, more physical player.) I don't think Pouncey will fall to the bottom of the 2nd or Austin to the bottom of the 3rd. Both those guys are 1st-round talents, and I think somebody's going to gamble on Austin's character issues before Chicago picks in the 3rd. I'd be happy if Chicago traded up to the top of the 2nd for Pouncey, though, or used their own 2nd-rounder on Austin.

[lemonej]

That all looks good to me, although I'd rather have VJax than Sidney Rice (fewer injury concerns, more physical player.) I don't think Pouncey will fall to the bottom of the 2nd or Austin to the bottom of the 3rd. Both those guys are 1st-round talents, and I think somebody's going to gamble on Austin's character issues before Chicago picks in the 3rd. I'd be happy if Chicago traded up to the top of the 2nd for Pouncey, though, or used their own 2nd-rounder on Austin.

Don't be surprised if Austin slips into the 1st round with the scouting reports coming back positive about his workouts in Mobile and the character issues are tied to him and a few other players at UNC receiving illegal benefits from an agent. If thats all there is to it he should be one of the top tackles selected after Nick Fairley who should be a top 5 pick.

[defiantgiant]

Don't be surprised if Austin slips into the 1st round with the scouting reports coming back positive about his workouts in Mobile and the character issues are tied to him and a few other players at UNC receiving illegal benefits from an agent. If thats all there is to it he should be one of the top tackles selected after Nick Fairley who should be a top 5 pick.

Yeah, the agent thing isn't going to be a huge drag on anyone's stock, I don't think. It's comparable in my mind to what AJ Green did - it's just part of the reality of NCAA athletics at this point. The bigger concern with Austin comes from the widespread reports that he's fairly selfish and immature. If he's going to be Albert Haynesworth 2.0 in the locker room, I think teams will be hesitant to spend a 1st-rounder on him. Who knows, though, maybe some franchise with a tolerance for poor character (Cincinnati) or the coaching staff to whip guys into shape (New England) will decide to take him in the 1st.

[LT2_3]

That all looks good to me, although I'd rather have VJax than Sidney Rice (fewer injury concerns, more physical player.)

 

I've heard that VJax is going to be franchised so you can pretty much write him off the list of available guys. The Vikes, on the other hand, have so many guys coming up for free agency that it appears that Rice might actually be available once we ever get to a free agency period.

 

[madlithuanian]

Man is that guy gonna be pissed off then!

 

Oh well, on to plan B!

 

I've heard that VJax is going to be franchised so you can pretty much write him off the list of available guys. The Vikes, on the other hand, have so many guys coming up for free agency that it appears that Rice might actually be available once we ever get to a free agency period.

 

[defiantgiant]

I've heard that VJax is going to be franchised so you can pretty much write him off the list of available guys. The Vikes, on the other hand, have so many guys coming up for free agency that it appears that Rice might actually be available once we ever get to a free agency period.

 

I've heard the same thing, but I assumed that it was just so that the Chargers don't have to let him walk for nothing. Speculation is that Jackson's asking for $9-10 mil a year, and if the Chargers were willing to pay that, they'd have locked him up already. If they were really interested in keeping him, it doesn't make any sense for them to spend almost $11 million on the franchise tag when he's asking for less than that per-year in a new contract. I guess they could tag him to give themselves more time to work out a new deal, but it doesn't make sense to do that when Jackson's camp has made it clear that he doesn't want to be tagged. A tag would give them more time to negotiate, but it could also lead to a breakdown in negotiations and they had that problem already in 2010. Given all of that, I bet they're planning on losing him and they're just tagging him so they can get something in return.

 

If they ARE looking to trade him, I think the Brandon Marshall trade is probably the best barometer for Jackson's trade value. Marshall's off-field problems are probably a little worse than Jackson's, but both players are one run-in with the league away from a long suspension. Marshall was two years younger when he was traded than Jackson is now, and he was significantly more productive than Jackson. If Marshall got traded for a 2nd and another 2nd the next year, I'd say that a 2nd and a future 3rd/4th should be enough to get Jackson, even if he is franchised. That seems like a reasonable price to me, given how badly the Bears need a WR.

[balta1701-A]

I've heard that VJax is going to be franchised so you can pretty much write him off the list of available guys. The Vikes, on the other hand, have so many guys coming up for free agency that it appears that Rice might actually be available once we ever get to a free agency period.

This of course assumes that something resembling the franchise tag winds up existing.

[balta1701-A]

If Marshall got traded for a 2nd and another 2nd the next year, I'd say that a 2nd and a future 3rd/4th should be enough to get Jackson, even if he is franchised. That seems like a reasonable price to me, given how badly the Bears need a WR.

Here's some bits on the price that was being asked by the Chargers this year.

The Minnesota Vikings were willing to give up a second-round draft choice and an additional conditional pick to the Chargers, a source said. Another source said Jackson had even worked out a financial package with the Vikings.

 

Chargers general manager A.J. Smith said he would trade Jackson only if he received the right value and he would make a trade only with a team of his choosing.

 

The Vikings, according to the source, called every three days to express interest. In trade conversations, Smith expressed a willingness to consider offers of a second- and third-round choice or possibly a second- and fourth-round choice, knowing Jackson would be available for a maximum of 12 games and could face a lengthy suspension if he had another DUI.

Worth stressing again...players can not be traded, for draft picks or anything, until a new CBA is signed. Nor can they really be franchised until the Players agree to the existence of the franchise tag. Therefore, even if the Bears were willing to offer up a first round pick...if there is no CBA signed before the draft, then it is impossible to trade that pick for the player.

[madlithuanian]

I think the whole thing w/ V-Jack and the Chargers is definitley unusual. It was a serious pissing contest. So, I'm not sure there's even remotely a way to guage what will happen.

 

Did the Chargers jack up the price to F with him?

Do the Chargers really want him?

Will he be rpoblematic if he's tagged?

 

Just too mamy questions and possibilities.

 

I simply look at him as reasonable possibility #1... If it can't be done within reason, we move to plan B, which could be Rice or similar...

[madlithuanian]

I think, at least most, are on board w/ the idea that everything is up in the air until the billionaires and millionaires figure it all out. But, we need something to talk about, so I think most of us are going on the premise that things will be relatively similar to the past year, with maybe a cap.

 

I apologize if some folks truly do not know that this impeding CBA crapola is unsettled...

 

This of course assumes that something resembling the franchise tag winds up existing.

 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Austin is sitting at the top of RD3 right now on Draft Tek, so I'll revise b/c I like this one better (of course using Drafttek's 7 RD simulator)

 

Chicago trades out of the first w/ New England for their first pick in the 2nd RD and they also aquire their 4th RD pick 124, according to the trade value chart Chicago loses by a few points.

 

2-33 Leonard Hankerson WR Mia 6-3 215

2-62 Marvin Austin DT UNC 6-3 305

3-93 Tim Barnes C Miz 6-4 310

4-124 Greg Romeus DE PIT 6-5 270

4-125 John Moffit G Wis 6-5 323

5-157 Willie Smith LT E Car 6-5 290

6-189 Rashad Carmichael CB VT 5-11 190

[balta1701-A]

I think, at least most, are on board w/ the idea that everything is up in the air until the billionaires and millionaires figure it all out. But, we need something to talk about, so I think most of us are going on the premise that things will be relatively similar to the past year, with maybe a cap.

I don't think anything like that is going to happen. I'll be surprised, very surprised if they have any sort of agreement reached before the draft.

[defiantgiant]

Here's some bits on the price that was being asked by the Chargers this year.

According to that piece, Jackson was available for a 2nd and a 4th, but the Vikings thought that was too much to give up. I'd do that deal in a heartbeat if it were available again this year.

 

Worth stressing again...players can not be traded, for draft picks or anything, until a new CBA is signed. Nor can they really be franchised until the Players agree to the existence of the franchise tag. Therefore, even if the Bears were willing to offer up a first round pick...if there is no CBA signed before the draft, then it is impossible to trade that pick for the player.

Well, true, but the CBA expires on March 5th and the draft isn't until April 28th. So they could have a month-long lockout and still get a deal done prior to the draft, which would mean that there'd SOME time for teams to trade picks for players. I'm not optimistic that they'll get a new deal done before the March 5th deadline, but I hope that they'll at least have it done by the draft. There's too much money at stake for the two sides to let negotiations seriously interfere with the 2011 season, and they have the NHL lockout as a model for how prolonged labor disputes can permanently harm the popularity of a sport. Plus, the decertification threat from the players would expose the NFL to significant antitrust liability in the event of a lockout, and I'm pretty sure that every team that's voted on decertification has voted in favor of decertifying in the event of a lockout.

 

EDIT: Also, there's this joint press release by the NFLPA and the league, stating that they're ramping up negotiations in an effort to have a new deal in place by early March.

[lemonej]

Yeah, the agent thing isn't going to be a huge drag on anyone's stock, I don't think. It's comparable in my mind to what AJ Green did - it's just part of the reality of NCAA athletics at this point. The bigger concern with Austin comes from the widespread reports that he's fairly selfish and immature. If he's going to be Albert Haynesworth 2.0 in the locker room, I think teams will be hesitant to spend a 1st-rounder on him. Who knows, though, maybe some franchise with a tolerance for poor character (Cincinnati) or the coaching staff to whip guys into shape (New England) will decide to take him in the 1st.

Dfg excellent point but we all know that when a player like him gets in a goood lockerroom he tends to fall in line. The thing about Austin and all the UNC players is they have been coached by a former NFL HC and DC and I have to think that Butch Davis will tell teams exactty who Austin is if they call him and ask because it will help the Tarheels program the more players reach the league from Chapel Hill. Its sad that a player like Haynesworth is being compared to players who never kicked someone in the head (Andre Gourade sp?), refused to perform a workout set up by the head coach, and basically took the money and shut down. I have watch some of these guys at UNC since Hakeem Nicks was there and I believe that this program along with most of the ACC conference have been producing some solid pro prospects and names like Phillip Rivers and Jericho Cotchery come to mind.

[defiantgiant]

Dfg excellent point but we all know that when a player like him gets in a goood lockerroom he tends to fall in line. The thing about Austin and all the UNC players is they have been coached by a former NFL HC and DC and I have to think that Butch Davis will tell teams exactty who Austin is if they call him and ask because it will help the Tarheels program the more players reach the league from Chapel Hill. Its sad that a player like Haynesworth is being compared to players who never kicked someone in the head (Andre Gourade sp?), refused to perform a workout set up by the head coach, and basically took the money and shut down. I have watch some of these guys at UNC since Hakeem Nicks was there and I believe that this program along with most of the ACC conference have been producing some solid pro prospects and names like Phillip Rivers and Jericho Cotchery come to mind.

 

Totally agree, but Rivers and Cotchery played at NC State, not UNC. Not trying to split hairs, I just grew up rooting for NC State and hating UNC, so I had to get that in there. But yeah, the whole ACC is pretty underrated (outside of maybe Boston College) in terms of producing good pro players. All the skill-position guys from UNC, the offensive linemen from UVa, running backs and defensive backs from Virginia Tech...there are lots of really good pro prospects coming out of the ACC.

 

And I think you're right, it's probably too much to compare Austin to a guy like Haynesworth. Hopefully he's one of these guys like Mike Williams (from Tampa Bay) who are just better cut out for the pros than for the whole student-athlete thing. Plus, a lot of players seem to respond to Lovie's coaching style - maybe Austin would too.

[clnr]

Logan Mankins will likely be franchised next season (whenever that will be). Per Brad Biggs. Article also mentions that the franchise tags will stand despite the lack of CBA.

[defiantgiant]

So apparently the franchise and transition tags are still going to exist, despite the ongoing CBA negotiations. Teams will have from February 10th to February 24th to apply franchise and transition tags as normal. It's basically a lock that at least a couple of the highest-profile free agents (Mankins and Vincent Jackson among them) are going to get franchised.

 

On the other hand, two NFL scouts think that Sidney Rice will get transition-tagged, because the Vikings will want to use the franchise tag on Chad Greenway. That'd be great news for the Bears and anyone else who wants to sign him - whereas the (non-exclusive) franchise tag means that any team to sign the tagged player has to give you two 1st-rounders as compensation, the transition tag only gets you the right to match the other team's offer. So if a team offers Rice a multi-year deal that the Vikings won't or can't match, they could sign him and not give up any draft picks in return.

 

That could be good for a team like Chicago - if they can come up with the cash, they could keep the picks that San Diego would want for Vincent Jackson (not to mention the whole draft-pick-trading problem with the CBA negotiations) and use them on more o-line, a new under-tackle, maybe a corner to develop behind Tillman. Also, it'd be a nice bit of revenge for Minnesota outbidding Chicago for Berrian.

[madlithuanian]

DAMN TAG!!!!!! I don't want to lose any picks for Jackson and Mankins. I'd rather try for a guy already under conract so we wouldn't have to lose so many top picks.

 

I guess we hope for Rice now.

 

So apparently the franchise and transition tags are still going to exist, despite the ongoing CBA negotiations. Teams will have from February 10th to February 24th to apply franchise and transition tags as normal. It's basically a lock that at least a couple of the highest-profile free agents (Mankins and Vincent Jackson among them) are going to get franchised.

 

On the other hand, two NFL scouts think that Sidney Rice will get transition-tagged, because the Vikings will want to use the franchise tag on Chad Greenway. That'd be great news for the Bears and anyone else who wants to sign him - whereas the (non-exclusive) franchise tag means that any team to sign the tagged player has to give you two 1st-rounders as compensation, the transition tag only gets you the right to match the other team's offer. So if a team offers Rice a multi-year deal that the Vikings won't or can't match, they could sign him and not give up any draft picks in return.

 

That could be good for a team like Chicago - if they can come up with the cash, they could keep the picks that San Diego would want for Vincent Jackson (not to mention the whole draft-pick-trading problem with the CBA negotiations) and use them on more o-line, a new under-tackle, maybe a corner to develop behind Tillman. Also, it'd be a nice bit of revenge for Minnesota outbidding Chicago for Berrian.

 

[defiantgiant]

DAMN TAG!!!!!! I don't want to lose any picks for Jackson and Mankins. I'd rather try for a guy already under conract so we wouldn't have to lose so many top picks.

 

I guess we hope for Rice now.

 

Eh, even if Jackson gets tagged, Chicago can still trade for him. Nobody's going to go the sign-him-and-give-up-two-1sts route when they can just trade for his rights. I'd just as soon get Rice (provided he's healthy) and not give up any picks, but I don't think the trade price for Jackson is going to be exorbitant. Look at the article balta1701-A linked to: even before his holdout, the Chargers were willing to give up Jackson for a 2nd and a 4th. It's not like that price could have gone up in the last year.

 

As for Mankins, man, I don't know. It sounds like the Pats actually want to keep him, but who knows with Belichick. They stick to that next-man-up philosophy more than any other team in the league. The one thing I do know is that trading with the Pats never works out well for anybody but the Pats.

[balta1701-A]

So apparently the franchise and transition tags are still going to exist, despite the ongoing CBA negotiations. Teams will have from February 10th to February 24th to apply franchise and transition tags as normal. It's basically a lock that at least a couple of the highest-profile free agents (Mankins and Vincent Jackson among them) are going to get franchised.

The tags will exist but no one really knows what they'll mean.

 

The Tags are one of 2 things that I'll be really surprised if they're not at least partially reformed in the CBA talks (the other being the rookie contracts).

 

The owners don't like the tag...particularly how the transition tag has become useless thanks to the poison pill technique, and the players hate hate hate the franchise tag. There's going to be some reform in that.

[madlithuanian]

Good points...

 

I agree.

 

Yeah, I don't want to trade with the Pats. JA got fleeced by the Bucs for Gaines Adams (RIP), I can only imagine what the Pats would do. We'd probably give away Cutler, Urlacher, Briggs, Hester and 3 first rounders...

 

Eh, even if Jackson gets tagged, Chicago can still trade for him. Nobody's going to go the sign-him-and-give-up-two-1sts route when they can just trade for his rights. I'd just as soon get Rice (provided he's healthy) and not give up any picks, but I don't think the trade price for Jackson is going to be exorbitant. Look at the article balta1701-A linked to: even before his holdout, the Chargers were willing to give up Jackson for a 2nd and a 4th. It's not like that price could have gone up in the last year.

 

As for Mankins, man, I don't know. It sounds like the Pats actually want to keep him, but who knows with Belichick. They stick to that next-man-up philosophy more than any other team in the league. The one thing I do know is that trading with the Pats never works out well for anybody but the Pats.