Turner Sucks

[DaBearSox]

Turner deserve alot of blame, but not for that. Orton had progressed every year in our system. He just deseres credit for where he's a.

 

Yea I am not trying to take anything away from Kyle...I am just saying that maybe lack of a superstar QB wasn't our main problem on offense....I still like having Cutler on our side...

[butkusrules]

Yea I am not trying to take anything away from Kyle...I am just saying that maybe lack of a superstar QB wasn't our main problem on offense....I still like having Cutler on our side...

 

Since Turner has been here every position has been overhauled with new personnel(some multiple times) with the exception of Olin Kreutz. Year after year after year our offense ranks near the bottom of the league. He is the controlling constant When are people going to realize it's his system/philosophy? Thank God for Cutler if only to show everyone more clearly that Turner is the problem.

 

 

[jason]

Since Turner has been here every position has been overhauled with new personnel(some multiple times) with the exception of Olin Kreutz. Year after year after year our offense ranks near the bottom of the league. He is the controlling constant When are people going to realize it's his system/philosophy? Thank God for Cutler if only to show everyone more clearly that Turner is the problem.

 

Nodding my head in agreement.

[nfoligno]

I agree Turner didn't call a great game, but I also still think execution is a huge part of this.

 

On that goal line stand for Atlanta, look at what Turner called. On first down, he calls play action to (I think) the TE, which is what you wanted, but it didn't work. On the next play, he calls for Forte to run up the middle, which many here would have liked to see. Nope. So then he tries something else different, a sweep, and that gets killed. Point is, on that goal line series, he calls three different plays, all plays many here have said should have been called, but the players simply failed to execute.

 

I am not saying Turner has done well, but I also think he is coaching a unit w/ one arm tied behind his back, and the 2nd arms is being held. Our OL is just so bad, it is hard to call much of anything w/ consistent success. And w/ absolutely no run game, stuff like playaction is a joke because no one fears our run game. When you get squat from the run game, and your OL sucks, it is hard to look good on offense.

 

Let's be honest, it's not hard to agree with this thread. After all, Turner does suck. He's unimaginative and predictable. Hell, three or four of us at the game were predicting plays based upon formation, and we were doing well. Damn well. And we don't have the advantage of this being our job, and without the game tape. Suffice to say, the opposing defensive coaches can predict the Bears offense quite a few times per game.

 

However, he didn't fumble that ball on the goal line, twice. That killed the Bears. I actually like the toss/sweep play. It's not like the run upt he middle was doing well. The call allows Forte to look for a lane, cut back, and blast through. Of course, it would be great if the Bears' OL didn't suck at run blocking - a point that is completely undebateable.

 

One play, on the other hand, doesn't make the game. And Turner had far too many opporunities where he was predictable, and it hurt the Bears. Where in the world was the play-action rollout to the tight end? That play is MONEY. And it's especially effective on the goal line, or close to it. There were plenty of missed opportunities out there, and it's on Turner to find them. In the several years he's been here, he hasn't found them very often. It's time for a new OC.

 

[madlithuanian]

Was anyone here ever clammoring for a sweep on the goal line? We don't have the speed or power remotely for that...unless you actually do it with Wolfe possibly.

 

I think no one will argue the TE pass and the first run...

 

I really do not think Turner is doing the most with what he has. He's done fair. No better or worse than I think what most OC's would do given the same. I want better...

 

I agree Turner didn't call a great game, but I also still think execution is a huge part of this.

 

On that goal line stand for Atlanta, look at what Turner called. On first down, he calls play action to (I think) the TE, which is what you wanted, but it didn't work. On the next play, he calls for Forte to run up the middle, which many here would have liked to see. Nope. So then he tries something else different, a sweep, and that gets killed. Point is, on that goal line series, he calls three different plays, all plays many here have said should have been called, but the players simply failed to execute.

 

I am not saying Turner has done well, but I also think he is coaching a unit w/ one arm tied behind his back, and the 2nd arms is being held. Our OL is just so bad, it is hard to call much of anything w/ consistent success. And w/ absolutely no run game, stuff like playaction is a joke because no one fears our run game. When you get squat from the run game, and your OL sucks, it is hard to look good on offense.

 

[butkusrules]

There are mistakes done by players in every game. Bigger picture though, I don't like Turner's performance even after our wins. He doesn't seem to have that killer instinct.

[adam]

Atlanta was overpursing a lot. The Bears needed some mis-direction. Hell, if they are stacking the box, go to the shotgun and let Cutler pick them apart.

[nfoligno]

Despite what I so often seen to read, I don't think teams are stacking the box nearly so much. Often when an 8th defender enters the box, they either run back (faking the stacked box look) or they blitz. Right now, teams seem to feel they can use their 7 to stop our run, and it is working. Teams have been giving more attention (warranted or not) to Olsen, as well as keeping safeties back in zones due to Knox and Hester.

 

 

 

Atlanta was overpursing a lot. The Bears needed some mis-direction. Hell, if they are stacking the box, go to the shotgun and let Cutler pick them apart.

 

[jason]

I agree Turner didn't call a great game, but I also still think execution is a huge part of this.

 

On that goal line stand for Atlanta, look at what Turner called. On first down, he calls play action to (I think) the TE, which is what you wanted, but it didn't work. On the next play, he calls for Forte to run up the middle, which many here would have liked to see. Nope. So then he tries something else different, a sweep, and that gets killed. Point is, on that goal line series, he calls three different plays, all plays many here have said should have been called, but the players simply failed to execute.

 

I am not saying Turner has done well, but I also think he is coaching a unit w/ one arm tied behind his back, and the 2nd arms is being held. Our OL is just so bad, it is hard to call much of anything w/ consistent success. And w/ absolutely no run game, stuff like playaction is a joke because no one fears our run game. When you get squat from the run game, and your OL sucks, it is hard to look good on offense.

 

First down, the play action was to McKie, not a TE. Which is why there was no separation. I don't like the play action to the FB, especially when it's McKie, a guy who is essentially on the team for the same reasons that Omaliye is still starting.

 

Second down, the run up the middle was too predictable. Multiple people beside me, as well as me, were calling it before the snap. When Turner tries something even remotely outside of the box and it doesn't work, he crawls back into the shell. The run up the pipe on second down was the easiest call all game. He may as well have put Forte in a different colored jersey to let everyone know who was getting the ball.

 

Third down, I liked this call. It was different, and gave Forte a chance to find his own hole.

 

I think it comes down to when each play is called. And that is where Turner's biggest failing occurs. By running the play action on first, it significantly lessens the likelihood of seeing a play action call on second. If he had called that play again, I'm sure it would have worked because the Falcons were loaded for the middle. Turner would have been better suited to slam it into the middle on first down, then line up with the exact same formation on second. Then the defense wonders more about the likelihood of either the same run, which is common to run twice in a row from the one, or the play action, which is common, or even the QB sneak.

 

I just think that Turner runs from a script, and he's far too easy to predict. I'm sure that if I made a point to study gamefilm I could find some serious patterns and situational statistics. When a player hits your curveball a mile, but it goes foul...it's not always best to switch up to the fastball. Sometimes you have to throw two curveballs in a row, and vice versa. It's situational, and I think Turner would be better suited if he had a catcher giving him the signals.

[BigDaddy]

First down, the play action was to McKie, not a TE. Which is why there was no separation. I don't like the play action to the FB, especially when it's McKie, a guy who is essentially on the team for the same reasons that Omaliye is still starting.

 

Second down, the run up the middle was too predictable. Multiple people beside me, as well as me, were calling it before the snap. When Turner tries something even remotely outside of the box and it doesn't work, he crawls back into the shell. The run up the pipe on second down was the easiest call all game. He may as well have put Forte in a different colored jersey to let everyone know who was getting the ball.

 

Third down, I liked this call. It was different, and gave Forte a chance to find his own hole.

 

I think it comes down to when each play is called. And that is where Turner's biggest failing occurs. By running the play action on first, it significantly lessens the likelihood of seeing a play action call on second. If he had called that play again, I'm sure it would have worked because the Falcons were loaded for the middle. Turner would have been better suited to slam it into the middle on first down, then line up with the exact same formation on second. Then the defense wonders more about the likelihood of either the same run, which is common to run twice in a row from the one, or the play action, which is common, or even the QB sneak.

 

I just think that Turner runs from a script, and he's far too easy to predict. I'm sure that if I made a point to study gamefilm I could find some serious patterns and situational statistics. When a player hits your curveball a mile, but it goes foul...it's not always best to switch up to the fastball. Sometimes you have to throw two curveballs in a row, and vice versa. It's situational, and I think Turner would be better suited if he had a catcher giving him the signals.

 

I would agree that we are far too predictable offensively. I know the players are NOT executing. Forte looks completely lost and is putting the ball on the ground at an alarming rate. I think he is pressing way too much. That stretch out fumble in Seattle where his knee was down and lovie challenged, the attempt at flying over the pile at Atlanta and the subsequent fumble are all pointing to a guy trying too hard to make something happen. Olsen is dropping too many passes, even Clark dropped a crucial one at Atlanta. That said, Turner is a chickenshit. He is scared to death to turn Cutler loose. Look, If we can't run the ball, then pass it. We've got guys who can make something happen with the ball after the catch. We also have the fastest guys in the league as 2 of our WRs so forget the run for now and just throw the ball. In the league today, you don't have to have a stellar running game to win. We have invested the farm on Cutler, turn over the keys already Turner. NOW!

[nfoligno]

Sorry, but I think you are allowing your hatred of Turner to play hindsight games here.

 

You say we should have run up the gut on 1st and then gone w/ playaction on 2nd. IMHO, that would have been as predictable, and likely more so, than what we did. IMHO, playaction on 1st was less predictable than a run up the gut (which you are saying we should have done) would have been.

 

Also, while you said a run up the middle on the 2nd try was predictable, so what. Sorry, but there is a reason it is predicable. Because it is also something you have got to do in that area. They were just as stacked in the middle on 1st down, yet you feel we should have run up the middle there. If we ran up the middle on 1st and went playaction on 2nd, neither working, you would have blasted Turner just as much for that as you are for his doing the same in reverse.

 

The fact is really this simple. When it doesn't work, it will be second guessed. I bet if playaction worked on 1st down, you would not be questioning the call. If Forte scored on 2nd down, you would not question the call. As much as you want to blast turner, that series goes 100% on the players. Turner tried something a bit different twice (playaction and sweep) while doing what EVERY team does and should be able to do once (run up the middle). None worked, and it goes on the players, especially Omiyale.

 

As a writer pointed out, Omiyale was blown up on both Forte's runs. Omiyale lost the battle, and Forte was forced to jump sooner than he should have. On the sweep, Omiyale simply whiffed his block, and Forte was nailed in the backfield.

 

So often it seems like I am taking Turner's side. I am not. There was so much in terms of playcalling and game planning I questioned throughout the game. At the same time, I think that goal line series really makes a statement. It just doesn't matter what the coach calls. The players have to execute. Whether it is a run up the middle, playaction or a sweep, nothing is going to work if your players don't execute.

 

First down, the play action was to McKie, not a TE. Which is why there was no separation. I don't like the play action to the FB, especially when it's McKie, a guy who is essentially on the team for the same reasons that Omaliye is still starting.

 

Second down, the run up the middle was too predictable. Multiple people beside me, as well as me, were calling it before the snap. When Turner tries something even remotely outside of the box and it doesn't work, he crawls back into the shell. The run up the pipe on second down was the easiest call all game. He may as well have put Forte in a different colored jersey to let everyone know who was getting the ball.

 

Third down, I liked this call. It was different, and gave Forte a chance to find his own hole.

 

I think it comes down to when each play is called. And that is where Turner's biggest failing occurs. By running the play action on first, it significantly lessens the likelihood of seeing a play action call on second. If he had called that play again, I'm sure it would have worked because the Falcons were loaded for the middle. Turner would have been better suited to slam it into the middle on first down, then line up with the exact same formation on second. Then the defense wonders more about the likelihood of either the same run, which is common to run twice in a row from the one, or the play action, which is common, or even the QB sneak.

 

I just think that Turner runs from a script, and he's far too easy to predict. I'm sure that if I made a point to study gamefilm I could find some serious patterns and situational statistics. When a player hits your curveball a mile, but it goes foul...it's not always best to switch up to the fastball. Sometimes you have to throw two curveballs in a row, and vice versa. It's situational, and I think Turner would be better suited if he had a catcher giving him the signals.

 

[nfoligno]

Nice in theory, but when your OL resembles a turnstyle or bull fighter saying "olay", it is hard to work downfield.

 

Cutler has done an amazing job moving around to avoid the rush, but the simple reality is, our OL sucks, and when you have an OL that sucks, it limits your ability to go downfield. Unless you simply assume the WR will get open and throw it essentially up for grabs, you otherwise usually have to wait for the play to develop a bit. Does the WR get early sep? Does a safety shift to that side of the field to provide help over the top. Unless you are just chucking it up for grabs downfield, you usually have to wait and see if the WR is going to be open, and to do this, you need your QB to hold the ball longer. If we ask Cutler to hold the ball for long, we are going to get him killed.

 

There is much I think Turner should be doing. For the life of me, I don't understand why we have not seen more roll outs and bootlegs. This is something Cutler excels at, not only being on the move but throwing on the run. It also buys him time and compensates for a weak OL. But simply saying we need to attack downfield I think doesn't take into consideration just how bad our OL is, and how much we would put our franchise QB at risk if we asked him to hold the ball longer.

 

I would agree that we are far too predictable offensively. I know the players are NOT executing. Forte looks completely lost and is putting the ball on the ground at an alarming rate. I think he is pressing way too much. That stretch out fumble in Seattle where his knee was down and lovie challenged, the attempt at flying over the pile at Atlanta and the subsequent fumble are all pointing to a guy trying too hard to make something happen. Olsen is dropping too many passes, even Clark dropped a crucial one at Atlanta. That said, Turner is a chickenshit. He is scared to death to turn Cutler loose. Look, If we can't run the ball, then pass it. We've got guys who can make something happen with the ball after the catch. We also have the fastest guys in the league as 2 of our WRs so forget the run for now and just throw the ball. In the league today, you don't have to have a stellar running game to win. We have invested the farm on Cutler, turn over the keys already Turner. NOW!

 

[jason]

Sorry, but I think you are allowing your hatred of Turner to play hindsight games here.

 

You say we should have run up the gut on 1st and then gone w/ playaction on 2nd. IMHO, that would have been as predictable, and likely more so, than what we did. IMHO, playaction on 1st was less predictable than a run up the gut (which you are saying we should have done) would have been.

 

We simply disagree. The first down play may be as predictable, but not the second down play. If you fail with a first down pass, there is a much higher likelihood that you'll run on second. It's one of those, "I took a chance and it failed, now it's time to go back to the basics"-philosophies. If the run happens on first, and is unsuccessful, then the second down play is much more unpredictable.

 

Also, while you said a run up the middle on the 2nd try was predictable, so what. Sorry, but there is a reason it is predicable. Because it is also something you have got to do in that area. They were just as stacked in the middle on 1st down, yet you feel we should have run up the middle there. If we ran up the middle on 1st and went playaction on 2nd, neither working, you would have blasted Turner just as much for that as you are for his doing the same in reverse.

 

It's not the play, it's the order of plays. I believe I explained it in the reply above. If the Bears went run then pass, and the D was stacked on second down, it's an easy TD. Keep in mind one minor detail, however:

I think that if the play action pass on first down was to a TE, it would have been a much better play, and because of the superior size/talent of the Bears' TEs, would have had a much more likely chance at success.

 

The fact is really this simple. When it doesn't work, it will be second guessed. I bet if playaction worked on 1st down, you would not be questioning the call. If Forte scored on 2nd down, you would not question the call. As much as you want to blast turner, that series goes 100% on the players. Turner tried something a bit different twice (playaction and sweep) while doing what EVERY team does and should be able to do once (run up the middle). None worked, and it goes on the players, especially Omiyale.

 

As a writer pointed out, Omiyale was blown up on both Forte's runs. Omiyale lost the battle, and Forte was forced to jump sooner than he should have. On the sweep, Omiyale simply whiffed his block, and Forte was nailed in the backfield.

 

So often it seems like I am taking Turner's side. I am not. There was so much in terms of playcalling and game planning I questioned throughout the game. At the same time, I think that goal line series really makes a statement. It just doesn't matter what the coach calls. The players have to execute. Whether it is a run up the middle, playaction or a sweep, nothing is going to work if your players don't execute.

 

I agree that the OL sucked on those plays, but still contend that the order in which the plays were called didn't help. First down play action to a FB, unless it's a good TE known for pass catching abilities, is a bad call. The run up the pipe on second is immediately predictable when following that first down play.

[BigDaddy]

Nice in theory, but when your OL resembles a turnstyle or bull fighter saying "olay", it is hard to work downfield.

 

Cutler has done an amazing job moving around to avoid the rush, but the simple reality is, our OL sucks, and when you have an OL that sucks, it limits your ability to go downfield. Unless you simply assume the WR will get open and throw it essentially up for grabs, you otherwise usually have to wait for the play to develop a bit. Does the WR get early sep? Does a safety shift to that side of the field to provide help over the top. Unless you are just chucking it up for grabs downfield, you usually have to wait and see if the WR is going to be open, and to do this, you need your QB to hold the ball longer. If we ask Cutler to hold the ball for long, we are going to get him killed.

 

There is much I think Turner should be doing. For the life of me, I don't understand why we have not seen more roll outs and bootlegs. This is something Cutler excels at, not only being on the move but throwing on the run. It also buys him time and compensates for a weak OL. But simply saying we need to attack downfield I think doesn't take into consideration just how bad our OL is, and how much we would put our franchise QB at risk if we asked him to hold the ball longer.

 

Precisely my point on the roll outs and bootlegs. This kid can flat out move for a big guy. We need to use that talent but since it apparently doesn't fit into Turners little yellow school box, we apparently aren't imaginative enough to work it into the scheme. You wanna work it downfield, Cutler needs to move out of the pocket. It isn't that difficult to nmove the pocket or at least designing some blocking schemes for it.