PFW Talks to a Scout About Martz's Offense

[defiantgiant]

Here's an interesting bit from Pro Football Weekly on Martz's pass-protection and the punishment his quarterbacks have to take:

"Mike Martz will not max-protect. He is going to ask his tackles to handle matchups solo one-on-one. The first question is: Do the Bears have the tackles to hold up isolated in single protection? The second question is: How is Jay Cutler going to react to Martz's offense? Trust me, there is going to be a guy open, but what Martz asks his quarterbacks to do is hold the ball, stay in the pocket and wait for receivers to run an 18-yard dig. That's 3½-to-4 seconds to hit openings. Even if your line does not whiff, you might take one on the chin."

 

"The question with Martz's offense has always been this: Does he have the quarterback who will hang in tough and take shot after shot after shot? Kurt Warner did, but that made him shell-shocked. He was that way with the Giants. It was not until they max-protected in Arizona that he got it back. Marc Bulger is (nearly 33 years old) and done — he did not want to get hit anymore. Jon Kitna would run through a wall all day in Detroit and just get the (crap) kicked out of him. He was tough as nails, and that's why Martz loved him. Alex Smith would not hang in the pocket, so they threw Shaun Hill in there, and before that it was J.T. O'Sullivan. With (Mike) Shanahan, Jay (Cutler) got rid of it fast. It was boom, boom, boom. With Martz, it is wait, wait, wait, bam — get hit in the jaw. The most important player in Martz's offense is not the quarterback. It's the two offensive tackles."

 

Personally, I'd like to see Martz make use of Cutler's mobility the way Shanahan did - get him out of the pocket and on the move, where he's harder to defend. None of Martz's previous QBs have been as mobile as Cutler, and he'd be dumb not to take advantage of one of his players' obvious strengths. That said, Cutler's a tough guy and clearly doesn't mind taking a shot or two. I'm sure he'd be able to stand up to the punishment if Martz asks him to hang in the pocket and get hit.

[Mongo3451]

Here's an interesting bit from Pro Football Weekly on Martz's pass-protection and the punishment his quarterbacks have to take:

 

 

Personally, I'd like to see Martz make use of Cutler's mobility the way Shanahan did - get him out of the pocket and on the move, where he's harder to defend. None of Martz's previous QBs have been as mobile as Cutler, and he'd be dumb not to take advantage of one of his players' obvious strengths. That said, Cutler's a tough guy and clearly doesn't mind taking a shot or two. I'm sure he'd be able to stand up to the punishment if Martz asks him to hang in the pocket and get hit.

I would like to see Martz adapt as well. However, Martz is notoriously stubborn because he knows his system will work if executed properly. Problem is, you don't pick it up in one season and your QB does get killed. I have less faith than most that Cutler will sit there and take it in the chops all season long. He had some moments this year where he showed good toughness and others where he was throwing off his back foot due to lack of. I just hate to see Cutler get the shit beat out of himself this year for a lame duck staff and system. I truly hope I'm wrong about Martz, but I will stand by all comments I have made past and present. Don't like him, never wanted him.

[azbearsfan]

I would like to see Martz adapt as well. However, Martz is notoriously stubborn because he knows his system will work if executed properly. Problem is, you don't pick it up in one season and your QB does get killed. I have less faith than most that Cutler will sit there and take it in the chops all season long. He had some moments this year where he showed good toughness and others where he was throwing off his back foot due to lack of. I just hate to see Cutler get the shit beat out of himself this year for a lame duck staff and system. I truly hope I'm wrong about Martz, but I will stand by all comments I have made past and present. Don't like him, never wanted him.

 

 

 

This is exactly my fear too. People are talking like he will change his offense to fit the personnel (Olsen, Cutler's mobility), but we have never seen that before.

 

I just fear Cutler will get beaten to a pulp.

[nfoligno]

No question that is my concern. Not just with Cutler, but I also see a lot of potential in our WRs, and hate the idea of learning a new system for just one season. And it isn't just learning "a" new system, but one that is drastically different from what they know, and frankly, not common in the NFL.

 

There are days I try to focus on the positive. If we can upgrade the OL, Cutler and WRs have more time and the system has more chance. While I hear about how Martz doesn't use the TE, Martz has also talked about how he has never had a real TE. While there are all the trade rumors, they don't seem to come from Halas, and if we are not trying to dump Olsen, maybe Martz does believe he can utilize him.

 

Before he was hired, I was against hiring Martz because I believed he was simply an awful match for the talent we have and that (a) he would not be around long enough to change that talent and ( he would not adapt to the talent on hand. That is still my fear, but I do gain a tiny sense of hope w/ so much talk from Martz that makes me wonder if he may adapt, if only a little.

 

I mean, if Lovie talks about using a DE on both sides and moving him around based on looks and the O sets, maybe there is hope for Martz to change too.

 

This is exactly my fear too. People are talking like he will change his offense to fit the personnel (Olsen, Cutler's mobility), but we have never seen that before.

 

I just fear Cutler will get beaten to a pulp.

 

[nfoligno]

I too have always read that Martz does not help his OT and doesn't like to use potential weapons as blockers. At the same time, doesn't this seem to conflict with how he uses the TE?

 

Martz views the TE as essentially a 6th OL. While that isn't max protect, it also is not leaving your 5 OL to solo block. If Martz keeps a TE as a 6th OL, is that really so different from any other offense that uses its TE as a weapon while keeping the RB in to block? Yes, I realize it is different in terms of angles and assignments, but it is still 6 blockers.

 

Have to ask. If Martz does not help the OTs w/ chip or double teams, what does that blocking TE do? On passing downs, unless there is a blitz over the TE, who is he supposed to block if not the DE?

 

Here's an interesting bit from Pro Football Weekly on Martz's pass-protection and the punishment his quarterbacks have to take:

 

 

Personally, I'd like to see Martz make use of Cutler's mobility the way Shanahan did - get him out of the pocket and on the move, where he's harder to defend. None of Martz's previous QBs have been as mobile as Cutler, and he'd be dumb not to take advantage of one of his players' obvious strengths. That said, Cutler's a tough guy and clearly doesn't mind taking a shot or two. I'm sure he'd be able to stand up to the punishment if Martz asks him to hang in the pocket and get hit.

 

[defiantgiant]

I too have always read that Martz does not help his OT and doesn't like to use potential weapons as blockers. At the same time, doesn't this seem to conflict with how he uses the TE?

 

Martz views the TE as essentially a 6th OL. While that isn't max protect, it also is not leaving your 5 OL to solo block. If Martz keeps a TE as a 6th OL, is that really so different from any other offense that uses its TE as a weapon while keeping the RB in to block? Yes, I realize it is different in terms of angles and assignments, but it is still 6 blockers.

 

Have to ask. If Martz does not help the OTs w/ chip or double teams, what does that blocking TE do? On passing downs, unless there is a blitz over the TE, who is he supposed to block if not the DE?

I think the upshot is that Martz doesn't use that TE very often. He runs a lot of 4-wide single-back sets, or 3-wide sets with a halfback and an H-back. I'm sure Manumaleuna is going to help one of the tackles in pass-protection when he's on the field, but I don't know how often that'll be.

[nfoligno]

We paid a lot of money for a player who won't be on the field much then.

 

I think the upshot is that Martz doesn't use that TE very often. He runs a lot of 4-wide single-back sets, or 3-wide sets with a halfback and an H-back. I'm sure Manumaleuna is going to help one of the tackles in pass-protection when he's on the field, but I don't know how often that'll be.

 

[azbearsfan]

We paid a lot of money for a player who won't be on the field much then.

 

 

Maybe he is the new starting right tackle....

[defiantgiant]

Maybe he is the new starting right tackle....

Or the new left guard, for that matter.

 

But I see nfo's point - either Manumaleuna's going to be a waste of money, or the quoted insider is making a little too much of how risky and demanding Martz's protection scheme is. Given how Angelo always seems to make sure that his guys get their playing time, I'd tend to believe that we'll be seeing plenty of Manumaleuna helping out in protection. Which is a good thing, since right tackle isn't likely to be the strongest spot on our roster.

[AZ54]

Or the new left guard, for that matter.

 

But I see nfo's point - either Manumaleuna's going to be a waste of money, or the quoted insider is making a little too much of how risky and demanding Martz's protection scheme is. Given how Angelo always seems to make sure that his guys get their playing time, I'd tend to believe that we'll be seeing plenty of Manumaleuna helping out in protection. Which is a good thing, since right tackle isn't likely to be the strongest spot on our roster.

 

I agree with you (and Nfol dammit). TE was a position of strength on the roster no need to go out and spend that cash when it could have gone to other needs. If the Bears truly were as cheap as many have said it would have been quite reasonable for the owners to say no to that deal and just stopped at the bonus for Peppers.

 

In retrospect I have to wonder if Martz was forced to start certain players in the past even if their skills didn't fit what he needed. I'm thinking in particular about Wendell Davis TE in San Fran. It wouldn't be the first time a GM, owner, or even HC says "hey I'm paying him huge $$$ or he has too much talent he needs to be on the field. Martz..you are the offensive genius you make it work."

 

I highly doubt Marinelli ever gave him a constraint like that in Detroit. Not so sure about their former GM, he wasn't too smart.