[Bears Sign McClellin]

I wonder how much he's sitting back and letting Tommie Harris mentor him? Tommie lost a lot of incentive based $$ with the injuries and Lovie benching him. I'm sure TH was bitter.

 

I think he wants to get paid like Adrian Peterson or Chris Johnson. The problem with that is primarily that AP got injured and CJ underperformed. I think his agent is telling him how to play it, the problem is that there is no successful way to play it when you have no leverage. Forte also kinda got screwed with the new franchise rules in the new CBA, but there's nothing that can be done about it now. The franchise tag is less due to the new calculation giving him less leverage (for instance I think the 2 year franchise cost would have been closer to $20 mil before the changes instead of $15 mil as it is now), and the July 16th cut off date for a long term contract took away a training camp holdout as a negotiation tool.

 

He's kinda limited to what the Bears are willing to offer.

 

[Bears Sign McClellin]

I love the fluidity of this board sometimes. From Shea signed - ho hum, we knew it would happen - to Forte's contract.

 

Forte is being greedy. Period.

 

The new rookie scale eliminated any suspense on getting contracts done - so yeah - ho hum.

 

As for Forte's status, it is early. The key date is July 16th at which point he can no longer negotiate a long term deal this season. After that, it's the franchise tag or sit out - which is kinda pointless since he can't negotiate a long term deal so it provides no leverage.

 

As for the perception that he's being greedy, he probably lost a lot of good will by whining to the media after the Bears signed a competent backup. I think he would have probably retained more sympathy if he'd played it like Ray Rice and STFU.

[Jay Cutler vs Paparazzi]

Now that I think about it, this is pretty easy.

 

Mark Sanchez has received a ton of notoriety for a variety of reasons. He's a nightlife player like Brady, and has recently been linked to Kate Upton. There are plenty of pictures out there of him just going to the theater and various sporting events.

 

Tony Romo dated several A-listers and eventually got married to a model. He also shops at Walmart.

 

Tim Tebow for obvious reasons. And one more.

 

Peyton Manning has been seen on SNL and did a voice on the Simpsons, not to mention a ton of commericals.

 

Eli Manning could potentially be put into that circle as well.

 

Brett Favre received tons of attention while playing, and even more during his career. So much so that he was a known figure to even non-football fans. Hell, we even know his brother is a criminal. I've seen photos of him in a car, and we all saw his wedding photo.

 

Jason - reading is a skill.

 

Most of those guys are in the limelight, but you missed the distinction of "that receives this level of attention doing everyday stuff at home."

 

Remember the context of Cutler being able to foresee having pictures of him taken outside his own home. That doesn't count going to places where paparazzi are likely taking pictures of other celebrities. That doesn't count other players that are dating celebrities because we are talking about what was foreseeable BEFORE he started dating a celebrity. That doesn't count players going on TV shows.

 

So, to be VERY specific, find one of a player not dating a celebrity or model doing everyday things at home where the pictures were published nationally. How about Peyton Manning taking out the trash? Heck, let's even open it up wider! How about 3 examples of someone dating a celebrity doing everyday things at home (like walking the dog or taking out the trash) and having the pictures published nationally.

 

Remember, I don't disagree that NFL players, and particularly QBs, should expect a higher level of attention. My point is that there are several things here that place this particular incident outside what is a reasonable expectation for these guys despite the heightened scrutiny. The bottom line is that getting their pictures taken when at home doing everyday stuff like walking the dog and having the pictures published nationally is absolutely anything but a normal occurrence - and hence unforeseeable.

[Jay Cutler vs Paparazzi]

There is a difference between athletes and movie stars. Movie stars get more photographers. But that doesn't mean high-profile athletes get none. This is especially true when the profile goes from QB on down. QBs are the faces of the league. The gap between Brad Pitt and Jay Cutler is huge when talking about the photgraphers, but the gap between him and his new girlfriend isn't nearly as huge. But I'd say it's just as huge as the gap between pre-celebrity GF Cutler and a relatively unknown (to the general public) player. How many do you think follow around Roberto Garza?

 

This is where you lose me. Make a specific example of your general statement: Name 1 other player in the league that gets national exposure with pictures of them doing everyday things in the off season that isn't dating a celebrity. I challenge you to simply name one and link the example.

 

This goes back to your statement that this level of attention was foreseeable when Cutler bought his place in Lincoln Park even though he'd never gotten that level of attention before, he hadn't started dating a starlet yet, and you still have yet to name an example of an NFL player that receives this level of attention doing everyday stuff at home unless they are dating a celebrity, that Cutler could have seen as an example that would make it foreseeable for him.

 

So, give me an example!

 

[Jay Cutler vs Paparazzi]

Please. You may have a distaste for what they do, but get off the high-horse a little and come visit reality. You know you'd read virtually any story about Jay Cutler. Just like the rest of us. And there's nothing wrong with it. These people are celebrities. You may read it and say, "Ahhhh, so what." But you will still read it, and readers drive media.

 

Jason - What you are still failing to realize (or acknowledge) is that there is a difference between media scrutiny in the sports pages, and paparazzi following a pregnant starlet around trying to get pictures.

 

Can you at least respond to my question about what QBs (other than Tom Brady) get the same level of photographic media attention? What other QBs have had pictures taken of them in their personal life walking the dog, shopping, or walking through an airport?

 

You are sticking with this "they should expect a higher level of attention" stuff as if it's normal that all starting QB's get this level of intrusion into their personal life. Cutler isn't getting this level of attention because it's him, it's because of his girlfriend / fiancee.

 

If you were to say that he should expect this level of attention because he chose to go out with a Hollywood starlet, I could accept that. But trying to make it sound like paparazzi stalking should be expected by any starting QB in the NFL is just ridiculous. It just doesn't happen without the celebrity girlfriend. Feel free to correct me if you can think of any examples that contradict what I'm saying.

 

 

[Bears Sign McClellin]

Yet another guy making more Guaranteed money than Forte

 

That is a sad state of affairs. Too bad Forte is too greedy to rectify that situation.

[Jay Cutler vs Paparazzi]

Agree with your perspective on JC and the fotogs. Let me add that he brings a lot on himself by being aloof and dickish with the media. The finger incident will only make them harass him more, as they will now attempt to incite and bait him.

 

That being said, I think my personality would make me standoffish with the media as well. Especially fotogs. I think they are representative of what is wrong with civilization. Bottom feeders preying to serve the interest of dumbasses who give a crap what Cutler and GF do on a Saturday in April.

 

I think the current fixation is because she's pregnant. Evidently the public craves pictures of skinny starlets getting bigger.

[Jay Cutler vs Paparazzi]

I'll agree it's somewhere in the middle. But an NFL QB garners attention on his own. Adding celebrity girlfriend just makes it worse.

 

Other than Brady, have you ever seen tabloid pictures of an NFL QB just walking around their neighborhood?

 

I'll concede that NFL players and particularly QBs get more attention than the average Joe, but none of them get stalked by paparazzi unless they are dating a supermodel or actress. It may be in the same type of subject matter, but it's like the difference in virus between the common cold and ebola.

[Jay Cutler vs Paparazzi]

Dude, that is NOT hindsight. That is as foretold and obvious as a sunrise. And it predates the link to celebrity girlfriends. All the girlfriend does is amplify the situation.

 

Become star NFL player = get publicity, get millions of fans, lose privacy in public

Become star NFL player who shacks up with a celebrity = See above, and muliply by infinity

 

If he doesn't move, then he has nobody to blame about his lack of privacy other than himself.

 

We can agree to disagree on this, but I'm quite certain that the Paparazzi would not give a crap about Cutler if he wasn't hooked up with a Hollywood starlet. If his girlfriend was Jane from Santa Claus Indiana, TMZ wouldn't pay money for pictures of him - and that's the type of publication that pays for pictures of him picking up dog poop. The photog is there to really get pictures of his preggers girlfriend.

[Jay Cutler vs Paparazzi]

None. Who said he did? I'm not downing Cutler for flipping the bird. I couldn't care less. I'm just pointing out the facts that the photographers in this case also didn't break laws, and if Cutler is that sensitive maybe he should have thought about his desire for privacy before he went ahead with being a professional athlete who shacked up with a celebrity. There are plenty of celebrities who stay off the radar. If Cutler wanted that, he could afford to make it a reality.

 

LOL! The old 20/20 hindsight. I do kinda agree with you on this point, but I don't think he'd thought out all these issues when he likely bought his property in Lincoln Park either. He hadn't even met the chick yet.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if he looks to move to the suburbs because of this. And it wouldn't even need to be a gated community either. Any suburb with million dollar homes will come with a police force that prevents anyone from sitting on the side of a residential street loitering. Neighbors will call with reports of "suspicious" looking things and the cops will simply make them leave.

[Jay Cutler vs Paparazzi]

Jason - I'm not explaining myself well here. Let me give it another shot.

 

Not all paparazzi behave badly or deserve our derision. We shouldn't paint them all with a broad brush. Just like there is a difference between speeders when one is going 5 mph over the limit and another 100 mph over the limit.

 

So, when it comes to paparazzi behavior:

 

Hanging at the airport to take pictures of celebs getting on/off planes: OK

Hanging outside famous restaurants or nightclubs to take pics of celebs coming/going: OK

Blocking celebs in cars by standing in the way to get more pictures: Bad

Hanging out in residential neighborhoods waiting for 1 celeb to come outside: Bad

Chasing celebs in cars trying to get pictures and causing the death of Princess Diana: Despicable

 

Now you have already admitted that some of their behavior is wrong. What I'm saying is that a guy hanging out in a residential neighborhood simply to stalk one celebrity couple falls in the inappropriate and creepy category. I guess I'm asking if you think the other people that live on the same street as Cutler deserve privacy, or do you expect them to run indoors anytime Jay or his fiance are on the street if they don't want to be in the background of published photos. What if there are underage children around? Do parents have any rights about photos being taken of their kids? I'm not talking having their faces blurred for publication, I'm talking about the pictures taken at all.

[Mike Simms Walker]

First, you don't want another WR?! Did you know MSW is 6'2"?! C'mon!~!!!

 

Also, MSW has a single year of 63 rec, 869yds, 7 TDs on a bad Jacksonville passing offense. In one season he's done almost exactly (4 less catches, more yards/TDs) what Weems and Thomas have done their entire careers.

 

The main problem is that he doesn't fit the job description because he doesn't play special teams. I also don't think he'd be interested because he would know that couldn't make the team without playing special teams - which he does not do.

[Jay Cutler vs Paparazzi]

I agree with Daventry, and disagree with you, on this one. Cutler may not like it. Celebrities may not like it. But the fact remains that they get paid ridiculous sums of money because people idolize, love, and want to know everything about the richest celebrities and athletes in the world. Marry up a celebrity and athlete and the stakes get higher. Where does this news come from? How do the pictures get taken? What other possible way does the void get filled? The simple answer is, it doesn't.

 

It's part of being a famous and filthy rich celebrity or athlete. Don't like it? Get a job at Wendy's. One can't crave the spotlight while simultaneously shunning attention.

 

I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with me about. Is it that these scum that file lawsuits when their foot gets run over while attempting to take pictures of celebrities in their cars as if they have a right to impede traffic, don't deserve our derision? Or is it that Cutler wasn't completely within his rights and morally justified in flipping the guy off? Or both?

 

I understand that these scumbags exist and will exist as long as there is a market for their product, but that doesn't mean that I should like it or that I shouldn't applaud when someone shows them the disrespect they so richly deserve.

 

I think that the police should arrest these bastards for loitering in a private neighborhood. If there was some creepy bastard with a camera hanging around my neighborhood, I would want them gone ASAFP. In fact, if it was my neighborhood, the guy would get a visit from several large men in ski masks with baseball bats.

[Jay Cutler vs Paparazzi]

I admit to not following other teams QB's or players as closely as ours, but I surely never had issues with recent Bears QB's like Erik Kramer, Jim Miller, or most of the myriad of alternatives that washed through the Bears teams over the years. Sometimes I did not feel they had the most talent or played the best, but I can only think of one or two of them who made a spectacle of themselves or presented as plainly unpleasant like the current guy does.

 

For someone to make a spectacle of themselves, someone has to be watching. Cutler is under more of a microscope because he's involved with an actress. Quite honestly, I'm surprised that paparazzi followed them out here to Chicago.

 

Nor have I ever noticed a QB looking as consistently unpleasant as Cutler does.....to me, guys like Manning and Brady are much more like what I would wish for, presenting as professionals as far as I have seen.

 

Also, I am quite aware that Cutler always appears as sour as he did here in the UK....that was my point.

 

Which is particularly irritating knowing that the current guy has talent that dwarfs most of the previous QB's....

 

I think you are being quite prejudiced (as in pre-judging) about this. I (unfortunately) have met people who's facial structure is such that they have a default look on their face like they smell something bad. They aren't in a bad mood necessarily, it's just that their look doesn't change unless something makes them smile. Otherwise, they quite literally, have a sourpuss.

 

Now in the case of Cutler, his default, serious, unsmiling look comes across as dour. I think that if you could simply realize that your perception of the look on his face probably doesn't match his actual mood or thoughts at the time, you'll feel much differently about this.

 

Good points about the guys from previous generations, perhaps I should keep that more in mind. I guess the fact that they played for peanuts and suffered and played with injuries regularly that modern players would not dream of overshadows some of that for me, rightly or wrongly.

 

It's probably also that even 15 years ago, you would only hear about player incidents long after they took place as opposed to now with our continuous 24 hour internet news cycle. I mean, without a published picture, and reading about it as a throwaway line in PFW's "Whispers" section..... "Chicago's QB Jay Cutler flipped the bird at a stalking paparazzi 3 weeks ago. Hopefully he can flip his passes to his receivers next season as easily....." Would anyone get anything more than a laugh out of that?

 

As far as not being perfect, I have a job working with the public which pays nowhere near Cutler money but would NEVER flip off cameras or behave in some of the ways that Cutler and Co do. It is not about being perfect, it is about being respectful, which is a choice.

 

Respectful? I don't think you understand the situation. Those recent pictures aren't in LA. They are in Chicago outside Cutler's home. It's not like Cutler is walking down a street in LA and someone is taking pictures of whatever celebrity happens to walk past. They are actually stalking him. I am shocked that you would call for any form of respect for an industry that was directly responsible for the death of Princess Diana. They are out of control and deserve derision - and flipping the bastard off is completely appropriate - if not called for - in my opinion. They don't deserve respect. Period.

 

My honest hope is that football teams will feel pressure to hire players who act decently as well as play well and that this pressure will force better behaviour from players who would like to play and be paid well in pro sports. That is why I won't buy jerseys of players that I feel do not meet at least a minimal standard of decency.

 

However, there are many players on the current Bears I am more than happy to buy jerseys of, i.e. Charles Tillman, Julius Peppers, Craig Steltz, etc...some of whom might not be all-pro caliber but whom as far as I have seen portray respectable behaviour and professionalism.

 

By all means, spend your money on the players you admire, but I personally don't want my team hamstrung by ignoring talented players that may not have had the most stable upbringing, and haven't had stable guidance as they grew up to know right from wrong as easily as those of us that grew up with those advantages. When a player screws up off the field, I try to determine whether it's an issue of youthful ignorance, or whether it's an issue of deliberate bad decision making. The issue with Cutler isn't comparable with any other team in the league except Tom Brady.

 

I do apologise for being a sourpuss, I tend to keep my thoughts on issues like these to myself for the most part and will endeavour to do so more often in the future. I know most here don't agree and there is no use stirring up unnecessary trouble.

 

Go Bears!

 

I think you should continue to post your opinions. Hopefully we can all learn from each other's perspectives.

[Bears' fulltime journalists]

I remember back a few year ago when Hub Arkush was considered similar to Larry Mayer and now that he got launched he has been very critical of most of the Bears personnel moves be it draft or FA signings. I didn't like him when he brown-nosed and I don't like him now because he is such a wind sock.

 

Ditto. Hub's a tool.

[With our combination]

TEs have to be considered because it is part of the passing game.

 

No they don't when the subject of the thread is the WR groups. Different systems utilize different positions more. When looking just at WRs, NE would not fare as well either. But that doesn't matter when the discussion is specifically about just the wide receivers.

 

 

[With our combination]

are we forgetting Calvin??

 

The thread is about the best overall group of WR. Calvin is an awesome talent, but the rest of the Lion WRs are weak by comparison so they don't belong in the conversation.

[With our combination]

The top 2x WR's account for 70-80% of the receptions and yards for WR's.

 

You've hit on the crux of my point right there. If Jennings and Marshall both got injured, how well would the #2 for each team be able to step up and replace the production of the #1? I could see Nelson replacing Jennings' production pretty well. However, I can't see Bennett replacing Marshall's production and Jeffery is still only an unproven rookie.

 

If everything goes as we hope it will, we could be better after this season, but not yet.

 

[What veterans get dropped?]

The website is Spotrac and it lists all contract info. In his contract for 2012 his salary is 1.65 and roster bonus is 5 mil, 2013 his salary is 1.85 and roster bonus is 5 mil. So that is 13.5 with .5 in workout bonuses , and you have to pay him 14 over the next two years, no matter what incentive bonuses dont kick in. I think for a punt returner, and 4th WR that is a little rich. Marshall is going to make 20 mill over the next two years as a #1. The average of his salary over the length of the contract lists him as the 4th highest paid WR in the league. Has that been worth his ST TDS? and his WR contribution. If you go by his cap hit for this year, he is ranked 11th, so basically do the Bears find that to be a worth it valve? I think they redo his contract, with all the additions to KRers and WRers.

 

Hester did get a $5 million roster bonus this year, but that has been paid already. (roster bonuses hit near the start of the league year so if a player is released because of it they can hit free agency while there is money out there) The major sticky wicket is the $10 million "deescalating" roster bonus for next year. How that works is that if he didn't make certain performance levels as a WR, that $10 mil number decreases all the way down to nothing. It's also worth noting that they inaccurately list Hester as getting: Roster Bobus: $5 million per year when he only gets them in years 2 and 3.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/chicago-bears/devin-hester/

 

For future reference, go to rotoworld for detailed contract info breakdowns.

 

Here's the rotoworld contract breakdown: http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3675/devin-hester (click contract details for info)

 

7/27/2008: Signed a four-year, $40.975 million contract extension through 2013. The deal contains $15 million guaranteed, including a $5 million signing bonus and $5 million roster bonuses in both the second and third years. Another $18.939 million is available through performance-based escalators. $250,000 annual workout bonuses are also available throughout the contract's life. 2012: $1.646 million, 2013: $1,857,523 (+ $10 million "deescalating" roster bonus), 2014: Free Agent

[With our combination]

I disagree. The Packers have a better core receiver group with Jennings, Nelson, Driver, Jones, and Cobb than we do with Marshall, Bennett, Hester, Jeffery and ??????.

 

I think some are putting the cart before the horse with Jeffery seeing as how he hasn't played a down yet. I'm excited about his potential, but there is always at least SOME learning curve for rookie WRs.

 

It is exciting to have such an improved group, and it will take some time for them to gel, but it's still early days.

[Bears waive safety Venable]

So we cut an undrafted special teams only player?

[Jay Cutler vs Paparazzi]

I don't think the quality of character of the players has changed over the years, but I think the level of scrutiny and amount of coverage has due to emerging technologies.

 

20 years ago, we got our football info from newspapers and magazines. Stuff like Cutler flipping off the paparazzi wouldn't even make the Enquirer - and even if it did, we would never know about it unless we read the Enquirer - which I'm quite certain none of us did.

 

Heck - go back to the days of Butkis, and he would have smashed the guy's camera, put the guy in the hospital, and the cops would have asked the guy why he's so stupid and probably charged him with something.

[Immediate Impact Rookies]

Sounds good except someone doesn't realize that Knox will be lucky to play this year.

[What veterans get dropped?]

I didnt say I wanted him gone, was looking at the possiblity of that happening. We are playing him a lot of money and at some point that will come into play. He will cost us 20 mil in the next two years, if you dont think they are looking at that, their not doing there job.

 

Just curious, but where are you getting these contract numbers? They are nowhere near reality. You must be looking at his contract as if he achieved all his performance escalators as a number 1 receiver - and he has not achieved them.

[Amazing stat about our drafted Safeties]

During the last draft, ESPN did a piece on how Alabama's Mark Barron was special because these days any "safety" who can cover gets moved to CB (or maybe even RB) and any safety who's big and can play the run gets moved to LB, so college football's safety position is waning. The spread offense's dominance is supposedly causing this. I don't know if that's true, but that's roughly what the ESPN piece said.

 

That is an absolutely excellent point.

 

I get that we've not had deep talent at safety, but if that's true, you're better off sticking with the very first safety you draft and letting him get better over years. Imagine if we drafted a new QB every year, started him, then complained at the offseason that he just didn't meet out standards so we're benching him and drafting another one. There's a lot of ways to do it better...draft better talent, let someone stay starting at a position so they can grow, get better coaches to coach the talent better, stick to your guns with a veteran and make a young player earn the starting position...anything but the way the Bears have done it. And we've even had the problem some at CB too.

 

While Lovie has had a quick hook at the safety position, and some guys get in his doghouse and have trouble getting out, we should really look at the players too. Chris Harris was a good pick and shouldn't have been traded. I think his major issue was that he couldn't keep his mouth shut. Kevin Payne seemed ok, but only had one healthy season and is now out of the NFL. Al Afalava really seemed like a keeper, but then he got injured with nerve damage and hasn't played since. Danieal Manning got moved around alot and just when he seemed to be getting it, he left via free agency for a $5 mil per year contract. I don't think it's so much giving them a chance to develop, but more a case of using them up and spitting them out.