BearFan PHX

thats how I see it too

all the reporting is that the market is soft for Fields. There are dozens of stories saying that. Youre just in denial dude.

I think they aren't as high on Herbert as we are?

I just read that we signed him to a 3year $24M deal - not bad at all! EDIT - oops Dawhizz you beat me to it!

I disagree. The NFL is a QB league, and in truth if you dont have one of the top 2 QBs, your only chance of winning a superbowl is to get lucky in a year where one of those top 2 dont make it. If you dont have a top 2 QB you have zero chance to win multiple superbowls - it just isnt a plan. Now I agree with you entirely that football is the ultimate team sport, and a QB cant do it alone. You need an OL and WRs and a defense etc. But there are ways to build a roster that dont require trading down the #1 pick overall. I see Poles stacking the defense, and i think he will put more talent on the OL and get new WRs too this year. And all of that works if you have a GREAT QB - and the only way to have on of those is to draft someone like Caleb, develop them, and have a little luck too - but not so much luck. He's a pretty good bet.

every interview done by reporters at the combine with teams around the league is telling us in strong terms that the league is not as high on Fields as some fans seems to be. And that makes sense given what he put on tape.

the problem is that its a recipe for mediocrity. youre saying instead of swinging for a big win, you want to swing a bunch of smaller times, some will miss and some will hit - so you have a better chance of not losing it all, but you also have a lesser chance of winning big. It's like buying every lottery ticket, you cant lose, but you spent so much to buy them all that you dont win either. When you take all the risk out, you end up with a more likely middle outcome. We have a shot at a top QB, which is everything int he NFL, and because it's not a 100% shot, you want to buy insurance and lose a chance at winning. So the question is, in the NFL, is it better to reliably go 9-8, or is it better to try to win a superbowl?

Yeah he looked really smooth in that film. I want that guy to be our QB. I watched the all 22 Alabama game too and he was incredible in that one. I cant find it not behind a paywall though. Even the Notre Dame game which was his worst, you can see he picked himself up after the half and came back strong. I think he has everything we need in a QB.

lol

That was the year he was running - and he's great in the open field. After that, they told him not to put any moves on approaching defenders, but to slide instead, and that took away his best weapon. Also once defenses realized he couldnt punish them for not playing honest in the middle, they had schemes to contain his run too.

yeah but we saw on film when Fields had all kinds of time and a man open he was looking right at and didnt pull the trigger. That happened a lot. And also, there are #1 picks and #1 picks, they arent all the same. No one thinks that Young was rated as highly as Williams is this year.

More info: Caleb against ranked opponents in 2023: at ND (16) 20-48 loss at Utah (14) 32-34 loss vs Washington (5) 42-52 loss at Oregon (6) 27-36 loss You can see Caleb is scoring well, and the USC defense is terrible. Also, USC didn't have any players who will be drafted in the first 3 rounds of the draft this year, so Caleb did that with lesser talent too.

Grizz - thank you SO much for watching and for that long post! That's awesome! I agree with what you wrote too. I'm glad we are seeing the same things. I would say a few things in response. First off, I'll bet you agree that you didn't see Williams holding the ball, and the ball usually came out quick, on time. So that huge narrative just isn't in the film? Secondly, there is nothing wrong with "hero ball" - it's a very important part of being a successful QB in the NFL. When a play breaks down, this is how a good QB can make something from it, so I LOVE when a QB can do that. My knock on Fields was that he only did that, and almost never got the ball out in structure. Williams definitely can do both. I agree about the accuracy on those long balls. He's not always like that, but for sure in that game he missed on three long balls in a row, although one was a pass interference call. He did recover though and score a touchdown on the same drive he overthrew those balls, and threw some other nice long balls later in the game. To your question about "scripted" plays, I'd say that ALL plays are scripted, but what I meant by it was the opening plays for Justin in each game were preset, so he knew what was coming early and could work on those plays especially, rather than learning the whole game plan that deeply. After the first handful of plays, Justin's productivity drops off and he almost never throws in rhythm for the rest of the game. Caleb gets better throughout the game, and seems to be able to play in structure a lot. You said he lost to better competition, but that was because his defense gave up too many points. Caleb still put up numbers against every opponent, and scored a lot. USC scored these points in 2023: 56, 66, 56, 42, 48, 43, 20, 32, 50, 42, 27, 20 - I think you can say that the losses are not on Caleb? Also, did you love his compact delivery? I am blown away by it, i don't see anyone how throws with so little motion and the time from starting to throw until the ball comes out is insanely fast. Also, you saw the accuracy on short and intermediate routes? How he leads the receivers etc? To me he looks NFL ready right now, and I cant think of another QB since Luck that looked that ready. Dude, thank you SO much for doing that. At least now we are talking about the same things.

I agree. But if he did, we should grab him in a second.

Justin is definitely electrifying at times, but i dont think you can call him solid at all.

for sure. a ham sandwich would be an upgrade over Jackson, and Byard is a very good player. Getting a little old, but we only need him one or two years.

I think NFL salary cap inflation makes it look a little high? He's also been a very good player, and I think McKinney is going to need something like $12M/yr and a longer term deal. For sure Poles doesn't want to be tied to a big salary long term at FS. He'll draft one this year or probably next year. Especially since he's done so well finding defensive backs in later rounds. I wonder how much is guaranteed and how easy it would be to get out of the deal next year too?

The Bears have signed S Kevin Byard to a 2 year deal. Details are not yet available. This is a HUGE move. He's been a perennial All Pro. Our secondary is stacked now. Poles has filled the two glaring holes in our roster (C and FS) and free agency hasnt even started yet. That's not to say he won't do more at center. These moves are also a sign that he's not trading the #1 pick.

That would be quite a story for sure.

I agree the debate is over, but not everyone does. To me what youre saying about that makes all kinds of sense. I can say that Fields does not have offset language, so if we cut him and another team signs him we are still on hte hook for his $ - but it isn't THAT much. But i do disagree with you about having Justin in camp with Caleb. i think that's a bad idea - but holding on to Justin until you get value might make sense, just dont have him actually in camp? Also if we do end up trading him for a 5th or something, at least we do get that money off of our cap.

I doubt that Russell Wilson wants to be a bridge QB, but if he did, we could get him cheap and take a QB off of the market to help the Fields trade market in one move. On the other hand, if no team offers him a legit starting spot, which is possible for sure, he might just take the Denver money and retire.

I'm guessing (pure guesses) that Poles is getting 5th round pick offer(s) and thinks it's not enough. I think he'd take a 3rd at this point though.

and this remains true after we draft Williams too - we will still need to develop him, and put weapons and protection around him.

no doubt, if you have Mahomes or Brady and you cant give them any pocket at all, youre screwed. Football is the ultimate team sport and the weakest link makes the rest a problem. On the other hand, if you dont have a top QB, the rest doesnt matter. The question is "have teams built rosters without having the #1 pick to trade down for a haul?" and of course the answer is yes. But "have teams won multiple superbowls without a dominant top QB?" and the answer to that is no. So this is the opportunity to get one, and i dont think you let it slip by. That doesnt mean we dont need OL help and WRs. It just means you dont have to pass on the QB to get them,

Dav, thank you. I know Warren is involved, but I don't know if he is the final decision maker. I had heard that Warren didnt want to keep Flus and Poles did, so you can take that with a grain of salt too. Who knows? As long as they make the right decisions, Im OK with it, although it's strange for the GM not to have final say, since it's his job on the line if he gets it wrong - but on the other hand, when you want to trade future draft picks etc you always need sign off from the owners or in this case Warren. I doubt Warren would stick his fingers into most things, other than to simply be a rubber stamp to approve - but huge decisions like this one, he is probably more involved with? I think of the (silly) movie draft day and how much pressure the owner had about the pick. It's fiction of course, but they interviewed a lot of NFL people to try to make it somewhat realistic about what kinds of pressure the GM feels even if the decision is theirs in the end?