BearFan PHX

No doubt Phil is arrogant. But I think he's right a lot too. And I think Gabriel is a moron, but that's just my opinion of course. It's just you used him as "evidence" or a "supporting fact" so I was just saying that evidence didnt hold up in my view. I also not saying you said he is always right or anything like that. It's just you cited him, so I rebutted that? Like if you put a PFF factoid and then i say PFF is random. Same thing? Also, if you get a chance to watch "Cars Keys" on TTNL, he and Shayne talk and he is VERY smart about GM stuff and the cap. And Phil isn't on that show. On his free shows on youtube Phil is basically just being arrogant, but if you pay the $10, and watch his film analysis this time of year, and ignore his personaility, it's the best stuff out there I think. Starting with it isnt just highlights, but the good the bad and the ugly. It's why I dont like Zion Young while most people do. That TTNL tape looked a lot different than the highlight reels do. And I saw him taking plays off, giving half effort and not being a high motor guy. This time of year it's a good $10 to spend. He goes in depth with a lot of the possible guys we could draft, and you can watch an hour of tape, along with excellent analysis about footwork, assignments, routes etc etc for anyone interested, it's excellent.

No i dont think you or we were arguing. If you mean the phrase "argument of authority" that means like a logical argument, and its a classic logical mistake, but it doesnt mean like angry arguing or anything like that - we arent. You havent said anything like that in a while, alls well here with me. No fight here. Im just saying i think he's an idiot, so for me, his opinion isnt proof of anything. And I just offered that he said we would keep Fields and trade the Caleb pick. He said he had inside info about that, and clearly, he was lying or being lied to - either way, it it proof that you cant trust those reports from him. But this is just a discussion, Im not mad at you(or anyone).

LOL @ the Phil Emery video! I know what you mean, this time of year we are so hungry for information, and there just isnt any to be had, lying season and all that. That said, I still think Greg Gabriel has the worst takes around. I don't trust him as a source at all. He said Caleb would be terrible and we should keep Fields. He even said that he had inside info that we would trade that first pick and keep Fields. I mean that alone should make anything else he says highly suspect.

well we are back to this. the argument of authority. Understand that Greg Gabriels job isnt to tell the truth, its to get clicks. Also these guys just repeat the same narratives. You can believe or "trust" whoever you want to, but its not any kind of proof at all. GG is an idiot. https://x.com/ggabefootball/status/1741190517847646295 Hilarious.

With all due respect, Greg Gabriel is wrong a LOT.

The reason is if Garrett is holding out, then they either get something for him, or nothing. That's why they'd take less. But they ONLY have to take as little a price as the second highest bidding team

In general the back 7 were slow, having been built for a zone scheme. And zone schemes require a pass rush, but we didnt have that either because Eberflus sucks. We will continue to build on team speed, and that will help a lot. We also need a pass rush desperately. But yeah, our defense was much worse than the stats showed last year.

yeah I think you have to assume that. Even if he's cleared, it doesnt mean he'll be ready to play impactfully. So I think you gotta move forward like he's gone. If we end up with two good LTs next year, you can always trade one.

yes for sure.

I agree, although if Odunze has another year with a ton of drops that could change, but right now I agree with you 100% and I expect Odunze to be better this year.

Just because pundits say it doesnt make it true. Also, no way we trade Burden or Loveland, and Odunze isnt going anywhere either. Not this year anyway. If Garrett wont play, the Browns will have to cut their losses. Part of why Garrett wont play is theyre ripping the team down to the studs to rebuild, like we did when we got rid of Khalil Mack and Roquan Smith. So they're going to be all about dead cap anyway right now. They want picks. If multiple teams are bidding, and Garrett has OK'd them all as destinations, then the price will be high. But if there are not many teams bidding, or if Garrett says he only wants one team, then the price falls. And if Garrett wants to go to a winner, then he is smart enough to know that having the team hes going to lose a ton of draft picks doesnt get him closer to the SB. So it is in his interest to keep the pool of teams bidding small. The Browns might just have to eat it.

Love all those picks except Zion Young, but I think you're thinking the right way about the picks. If the board falls a certain way, it might be an OT or CB too.

I see your point about players. I was just thinking who we could give, not who theyd want - it's a good point. It seems like they are in teardown mode, and they already have a ton of dead cap, and can actually afford more. It reminds me of the year we got rid of Khalil Mack and Roquan Smith.

Well for sure Garrett wants to be traded. We know this because hes holding out, and it's not for money. And you make a good point, that Garrett has a no-trade clause, so it stands to reason, given that he's holding out, he must have particular teams in mind that he'd like to be traded to. A lot of money changed hands on edge rushers this offseason, so there are potentially fewer suitors at this moment than, say, a month ago. Crosby's possible availability also may cool the market some. I would imagine that the Bears are interested, but the hurdle would be the price of the trade. If Garrett really wants to come here (or anywhere), he can also tell the Browns that he doesn't want any other team, and that would also soften the trade price. And help the team hes going to to get closer to that Superbowl. Having his new team lose a bunch of picks doesnt help him reach his goal, so he'd be motivated to narrow that list I think? I can also imagine that if the Bears are considering this, they'd want to be sure Bain was off the board at pick 25. I could see this trade happening on draft day, whether it's us or any team. I think it all hinges on who Garrett wants to play for. If hes open to 6 teams, the trade price goes up, if he is pushing for one or two, it goes lower. I'd sure love to see him in a Bears uniform, but not for three first round picks. Two and Bagent would work, but I wouldnt go higher. And if Garrett really wants the Bears, it's because he wants to get a ring here. So maybe he could hold out for just the Bears (or any one team) and drive that price down to a First, a Second and a player. I would be willing for that player to be Jaylon Johnson, Tyson Bagent, Montez Sweat, Cole Kmet or Tyreek Stephenson.

I think you may be right. But no sane GM would trade three first rounders for an edge player who is 30 years old. Maybe there is an insane GM out there, maybe several I dunno. But as much as I want the guy, Im not paying that for him. Meanwhile the Browns are stuck, because he isnt speaking to them. Hopefully that pressure lowers the price?

There are no obvious blue chip players to be had at pick 25. Obviously, you can find players and coach them up. Hall of Famers have come from every round, but we've gone through these numbers before. There is no sure fire blue chip pass rusher that's gonna be available for us there.

Im just saying. In football, you need a QB, a pass rush, and some protection for the QB. Obviously every position is important, but those three things are the core.

I hope we never trade a pick more than 2 years out. I think some teams will really screw themselves. I think if you get Myles Garrett on this team, youre instantly one of the 3 teams (or so) favorited to win the Superbowl.

some teams are going to dig themselves deep holes, and there will be pick inflation for trades as a result too.

Yeah, I was thinking this years first, Tyson Bagent and next years 2nd (pick 64 lol). Id go as high as you say here, but I think they might take less in the situation theyre in?

well considering they arent even speaking, and Garrett doesnt want to be there, it might be less.

Wow. Apparently the Browns restructured Myles Garrett's contract, so if we traded for him, this would be our cap number for him: 2026 $9.1M 2027 $17M 2028 $21.3M 2029 $58M OR $5M dead cap to cut him 2030 $58M OR Nothing to cut him Those are three VERY affordable years for Myles Garrett, and a $5M out after that. This makes him very affordable for us. The only question is what will the Browns need in trade to eat all that cap. Very interesting.

AZ54, appreciate the response. I dont fully agree, but I understand what youre saying too. Its not like we are way off from each other. I agree with a lot of your analysis, just not how we rank them relative to each other. I also agree neither is a flashy speed rusher. I think Jacas has a better motor and Zion takes plays off.

Id say Edge Reuben Bain or S Caleb Downs And realistically, Edge Gabe Jacas or S Dillon Thienemen I dont mean to copy you guys, but you did get it right. Could be a surprise CB or LT too.

I agree with all of this. Of course i hope every player we have has a sudden rebirth and becomes amazing, but I cant believe it until it happens of course. This is the year to see if Poles and our staff can find Defensive Linemen. I feel better about it with Ben Johnson and Dennis Allen, but let's see who we pick. All in all though, while I dont see a top 10 defense here, I do see a major upgrade from where we were, so that's good. I love Bryant and Bush for sure.