BearFan PHX

as soon as I saw Calebs film, like right away, I knew he was special - it took a while to trust that he could be consistent, and he still hasnt been in the NFL. But I think Ben johnson is the guy to get that right - I hope so, we'll see. My point was just the idea that if someone is already on the team, I think they get extra credit points from you, and I still think Poles is "eh" but I understand that if Poles is the GM like Declan Doyle is the OC, then we might be OK anyway. But if for example, Poles suddenly went missing and we promoted Ian Cunningham, i think he'd be better. I still cant forgive keeping Eberflus, and some of the other bad moves he's made too. It tells me he is mediocre, which means some good too - but he's not a top GM that gives you an edge in winning as I see it right now. But now is not the time to rock the boat. I understand rolling with Poles- but I dont understand why they extended him now instead of waiting thru this year first. He had 2 years left on his deal, and I dunno what we gained here - but to be fair Im not sure we lost much either.

Yes we should see a difference immediately, in spurts and flashes, but it may take 4 or 6 weeks until the consistency is reliable?

Every teams fortunes depend on the QB. This is why your "trade the #1 pick away, lose Caleb and get the haul of picks" made no sense. Ditto "keep Justin Fields"

apparently he had 2 years left on his deal, so the extended him 3 more years. That puts him on the same timeline as Ben Johnson. I'm not sure why they did this now, as opposed to after this year so we could see how they work together, but at least this is slightly more sane than having them not in alignment. I'm still not sure Poles is the right guy, but with this staff to help him, Im not sure his drawbacks really matter that much.

I do remember from watching film in context that I was hoping for more from him. If he can do what he did in college Id be happy, and theres no reason he cant.

does that take into account having to punt from inside our own 30 so much?

I remember some pundits saying that if we didnt trade the #1 pick for the haul, that Caleb had to be generational immediately. It's a kind of tough guy argument, but it's unrealistic. It's like kidnapping a stock broker and putting a gun to his head to ask him the price of oil a month from now. He cant tell you, you can push and threaten, but its just impossible. Some things take time. In his first three years, Peyton Manning threw for 3.739 yards, 26 TDs and 28 INTs and a completion percentage of 56.7% 4,135 yards, 26 TDs and 15 INTs and a completion percentage of 62.1% 4,413 yards, 33 TDs and 15 INTs and a completion percentage of 62.5% As a rookie, Williams threw for 3,541 yards, 20 TDs and 6 INTs and a completion percentage of 62.5% And Justin Fields each season numbers for fun 1879 yards, 7 TDs and 10 INTs and a completion percentage of 58.9% 2,242 yards, 17 TDs and 11 INTs and a completion percentage of 60.4% 2,562 yards, 16 TDs and 9 INTs and a completion percentage of 61.4% 1,106 yards, 5 TDs and 1 INT and a completion percentage of 65.8% Fields played 10 of 17 games last year, so here are his 2024 numbers pro rated out to 17 games 1,880 yards, 9 TDs and 2 INTs and a completion percentage of 65.8% It's pretty clear that expecting immediate results, from QBs or teams, isn't realistic. But you also need to see that progress. I have Williams breaking 4,000 yards this year. If he does, it puts him pretty clearly on a similar trajectory to Peyton Manning. Despite some weird criticism from the press, you gotta LOVE that 6 INT number from last year with all that chaos going on, and all the pressure to be a hero, he was still careful with the ball. Caleb's completion percentage is better than Manning's two first years already. And Fields is left far behind in the dust across the board. Ben Johnson is the perfect mentor for him to learn to play in rhythm - we already know what he can do when things break down. Let's see him get the ball out a little faster. He has certainly shown on some plays that he can do that. if he does it more, and more guys are open which is a big part of it too, I think he will be a top 5 QB in the league. It all comes down to the whole team now. From OL to CB2. Thank god PFF says we have the 4th best OL in the league right now! lol - and all without knowing who will win the LT job LOL. So yeah, game 4, game 8, game 12 we will need to see improvement, and if/when we do, we will know the trajectory of this team for the next few years.

That seems very wise and reasonable. it's not impossible that we gel quickly, but if it doesn't happen that fast that doesnt mean it wont be great by week 8 or 10 etc. Its all good on paper, but it might take a minute to gel, and some pieces may not be what we hope they are. We will see. But good reasons for excitement for sure!

YES. Its been decades since we were here, and I dont want to blow it over some loyalty to a HB or TE2 or something stupid like that. I am confident that Ben Johnson isnt loyal to anyone on the team right now - and thats a good thing. No matter whether you were great last year or terrible, you have this chance to prove it on the grass and be part of this. But I have no patience for the BS - we have a chance to be great, let's not trade that for coddling players who "just need more time come on guys lets give them another chance" etc yuck

yes, excellent stuff. the Ditka Bears werent really built to win shootouts. Its also why you can get to a point as a team where you can reliably beat the bottom 25 teams, but then youre in the elite level along with other teams that are good too - and sometimes one of those teams is just better than you. That's when you leanr you have to dig down and find something more you didnt think you had to give. ANd thats the point where Champions are made. I think about the Bulls having to get past the Pistons. They just couldnt - until they finally became killers. I feel like it's likely this is the year we get good, but we will learn we need to become killers. And this is why so many of us are not impressed by incremental improvement. I dont want to be excited that we become pretty good with a roster thats giving everything. I dont rejoice at 5th round picks that play like 3rd round picks. Im not looking to go 10-7 every year. I want to be f*cking killers. I want to be dominant - so my bar is higher. But i promise you Ben Johnson feels the same way. So some may root for the mediocre players to stick around and try harder, but i want killiers. Either become one, or get out of the way for someone who can. Feel good home town rah rah stuff is for losing teams and super fans. Lets GO.

I tend to agree on paper. To those who say i am only pessimistic, I would offer that not knowing until you get on grass goes both ways. This team; roster and coaches - if it works out like it could, might be a formidable team in December. I wont say they cant possibly win a Superbowl this year or go to one, but the more reasonable and likely goal is a playoff berth. I remember the 1984 team destroying opponents, and then getting totally outclassed by the 49ers in the championship game. I could imagine something similar for us this year - having an easier time than we've seen in a long time with the bottom half ot eh league, but still needing to learn hard lessons when they encounter truly great teams. ANd that's a good goal for this year - to learn what it actually takes to win big games. And of course they could be worse than they look on paper too. But there is definitely reason for optimism this year, and I cant wait to see it on grass so we can see what it is we really have here. I'm just put off by all the talking heads telling us what they think are facts at this time of year. Some say Caleb is a bust, some say we are ready to dominate - all are making claims for clicks, because no one knows right now, and anyone who says they do, is selling snake oil. Plenty of reason for hope, but not too many facts are known at this time.

THe reason I keep saying wait to see it in pads, is that we've made all the moves on paper, and now we have to see if they are what we hope they are. Once we can evaluate everyone, then is the next opportunity to look at free agents and trades. This is true for every team every year. Around this time of year it gets quiet, and then during or after camp, it heats up again, and that makes good sense. So it would be foolish to say that we are riding with Swift as HB1, or that we are happy with our pass rush, or that we are keeping everyone. Albert Breer just said this, and it tracks right along with how teams operate at this time of year. Not just the Bears in 2025, but all of them every year. "They'll get a look at D'andre Swift and Roschon Johnson at running back, and Montez Sweat and Dayo Odeyingbo (who plays some inside on passing downs) on the edges when the pads go on, and then maybe consider guys such as Jamaal Williams at running back or Za'darius Smith or Matthew Judon as edge rushers" It makes sense and it's logical, and we see it every year. Also during this period of time the hype machine is all that can get eyeballs, so we hear a lot about how good players are going to be in new situations, but until you see it on the grass, it's not real. Take Nate Davis for example. His film was great, and his measurables were too - but we heard rumors about his heart not being in it. Blog boys would tell you that the Bears OL was SET, but when we saw it on the grass last year, it was anything but. We will know more about who we really have in August, and then changes come with the next trade window and cut days.

here, maybe this helps, since its a sportswriter and not someone this board, since that seems to make a difference? https://sports.yahoo.com/article/jets-reporter-says-bears-steelers-201302283.html its written down! now it must be true!

just as I thought - you got sucked into some ridiculous video where the creators did it for clicks. Use your OWN brain man! Watch some film! Dont let them convince you the Emperor is wearing fine clothes! Anyone simply watching the games can see that Fields is awful. THe only way to come to the conclusion that Fields is good is to turn over control of your own opinions to sports commentators that are trying to generate clicks.

LOL every team passed on Fields when he was available for trade until we took a 6th rounder for him LOL Then the Steelers got to know him, tried to teach him. The result? They got rid of him. He was accepted by the Jets, notoriously known for their terrible QB evaluations. He will sell tickets and jerseys to people like you who dont understand how ineffective he is as an NFL QB. And he will help them lose games so they can replace him with a high pick rookie next year. Will they bench him in my scenario? Hell no! Fields will help them rack up the losses to get that higher pick. The Arch Manning sweepstakes. And after that, will any team want Fields as a starter? Nope. Know why? Because he sucks. The question here is how the hell you get so attached that you cant see the obvious truth that the entire league sees. I assume you think Eberflus will be a great head coach some day too. Its truly astounding. I dont understand why you arent embarrassed.

Well wins is one thing, the offense humming is another, and Calebs growth yet another. I think we could win games like vs McCarthy without having our shit together. And I think we could lose to the Eagles even if we are playing well. So getting wins is one thing. But the offense gelling and Caleb looking calm and in rhythm will be the name of the game. I totally agree with what you guys have said, that if anyone ever had the pieces in place to grow, it's Williams on this team. There is every reason, barring injuries, to expect more than average from this group this year. it might take a minute to truly get into rhythm, and we may even win some games and still not be in rhythm. But that's what this year is for as much as anything - to become a top 10 offense, and do it consistently, down to down, game to game. Id like to see that consistency for the second half of the season, and I wanna see spurts of it int he first four weeks that become gradually more sustained. if we can accomplish that goal this year, then the real championship window opens next year. Not that we cant possibly gel early this year and make a run, but the likely schedule looks like that to me.

you're absolutely crazy. just watch the tape. honestly if you think Fields is good, then your opinion on everything is wroth questioning. now I know, people have different opinions on things and thats cool. When I say I think Fields in the open field is similar to Hester, thats an opinion. Its all well and good for someone else to say they dont agree. Its not a fact, its an opinion. Most of what's said on here is opinion. And thats cool. But Fields is terrible. Thats a FACT. It's already been proven. What I couldnt believe was the idea that you were arguing that Fields has already been PROVEN GOOD. That the idea that Fields is bad hasnt aged well. LOL. Did Pittsburgh keep him? I dont think you know how to watch football, I really dont. I think you just regurgitate what idiots like Greg Gabriel and Pat the Designer and Swifty say. Its ridiculous. Put down the kool aid and just watch some film - it isnt hard. You can see how players play with your own eyes. You dont have to be a genius either, thankfully. You would have kept Fields. You would have kept Eberflus. Dude, you need to rethink your football life.

Dude, Fields SUCKS. That rating means nothing, when he hardly threw the ball. 2,500 yards is the best he ever did! This goes far beyond optimism - it's rainbows and unicorns.

Ok so Ive been thinking more about this. Are you actually arguing that Fields has proven himself to be GOOD? Really? Why does no one keep him? Your best proof is that the Jets paid him? They are widely known as shrewd QB talent evaluators? And signing someone doesnt matter - hes on his 3rd team already. He has to produce before you can argue that hes any good. So far his production has been terrible! Here is JF's BEST season: 2562 yards, 16 TD, 9 INT - his other seasons were WORSE. that's 150 yds a game average. YUCK! His BEST season LOL Here is CW's rookie season in which he had three different OCs, the first OC and head coach got fired, and the OL was trash: 3,541 yards, 20 TD and 6 INTs and people are saying Caleb had a bad year, might be a bust. LOL Caleb threw for almost 1,000 more yards, had 4 more TDs, and only 2/3 as many INTs. Tell me again that Fields is good. What a bunch of crap!

100%

Oh for sure, there are like maybe 10 guys who can do it at the level that you know you'd keep them long term, in the world! Maybe 10, maybe a lot less. Depends on how you rate em. It's hard!

Fields, to me, is a superior athlete that doesn't have the mental talent at the QB position. I'm not saying he is stupid at all. But he has never shown an ability to read defenses in rhythm, and you can bet the Jets are thinking about Arch Manning next year, and signed Fields to get Manning. They may also have Fields be that transitional QB for Manning, but once Manning (or whichever rookie they take) starts, that'll be it for Fields. Fields is not an NFL starting QB. People have given him chances to show that he can be one, but he hasnt done it anywhere yet, and I dont see how he will.

lol - lets see what the Jets do after this year with him. The idea that fields is GOOD at QB is like teeth that haven't come in yet because the baby teeth are still in LOL

fair enough thats what makes horse races. I agree with what you said about why they asked him to slide, I think thats what i was saying too. personally, I think Fields is a monster in the open field, and Hester like - but we dont have to agree on that. I do wonder if a team will use him for kick returns in the future if he isnt starting at QB. EDIT - I do admit Hester is quite a bit faster. That's obvious. But in terms of vision and elusiveness I see them as similar.

I agree with you about Minnesota, but the reason Fields' rushing yards were down was that the coaches were telling him to slide rather than try to get around defenders. You all know how I feel about Fields as a QB, but he is about as good an open field runner as Hester was. And like Hester, he didnt actually play a real position on offense or defense. You cant pay a starting QB starters money, or even rely on him as a starter and let him run free, so Fields is left without a place on the roster where he can showcase his skills. Great athlete, not really a football player.