BearFan PHX

I dunno about that, or the effect of the weather, but i feel like we could hang with any of those teams. And with a pass rush, for SURE.

Yeah no worries, he literally asked me why so i explained.

I think anything is possible for this defense. I bet it will be a little crazy for a minute.

Absolutely. With the addition of a real defense, we will be back there many times. i expect great things in our future.

its because you have a pattern of preferring the players already on the roster, even when its clear that they are terrible. This whole saga started with Charles Leno. I said he was terrible, and you said I was a hater with a psychological predelection to be negative. Even though Ive been on this board at least 20 years before that and no one thought that about me, or had any real problem with me. Then came Justin Fields, Matt Eberflus, Braxton Jones. All are terrible, and I think youre still even saying we should sign Braxton again rather than any number of other mid tier free agent LTs. Why? Anyway, I was the negative pessimist according to many many posts of yours. A lot of them were much more aggressive and nasty than you have been since our big blowup. Then suddenly I am saying Caleb is gonna be awesome, even when he was just learning and not complete or great yet. So then I dunno, was I a homer or an optimist? The point is, I watch the film, and base my opinions on that. You think i want to fight, but I promise I never change my opinion just so it will be the opposite of yours (or anyones!) it's just what I really think. And usually I am right too. Because its based on the film, and the salary cap, and nothing else. Im not so smart. I just watch the tape. And Im not the only one who thought Justin was bad or Caleb is good. So Im hardly claiming genius status here. To me all that was obvious stuff that anyone should see. Not special insight or whatever. So yes, you have every right to your opinion no one has ever said otherwise, but since you have characterized my opinions as being the result of emotions so many times, it must be fair for me to point out that youre a homer who wants to keep every player rather than improve the roster. You have actually said in the last month or so that Sweat, Dayo and Booker will be better next year and we should go with them! Dude! I get the loyalty, but dude! Also, for DJ it's not just one play. Its at least one play every game. Ive been looking at it and talking about it all season long. And Im not the only one who has been. Its real. I hope they move on from DJ Moore. He doesnt suck, but hes not a legit WR1, and we dont need him anymore, and hes doing more harm than good to our future plans. I hope that answers your question. I didnt use any language to try to be mean or hurt anyones feelings (how the hell do I have to even say that on a sports talk board?!) I was direct and told the truth of what I think. If your point of view on keeping players is homer-ish i dont think it is insulting to say so - its more like explaining than name calling. Anyway we are all grown men so i think a lot of this offense is theater. I got banned for a week for saying an IDEA was "stupid" - freaking kindergarden if you ask me. But whatever...

I agree, he would probably fetch a 3rd at best, likely a 4th. *IF* the plan is to move on from DJ, its like cutting him, and if you can get something for him, cool. Thats why all the arguments are about cap room, and not also about adding a player on D with the pick for example.

right on Grizz

Adam, thank you once again for all the stuff you post. I learn more from you and the stuff you share than most other place combined. Theres a lot of crap on this board, but your contributions make it so valuable. Thank you!

Amen and thank God Al Harris isnt the new Packers DC.

AMEN - we need accountability, not these soft emotional fan boys.

thats faulty logic since I saw him jogging every week. I saw it with my own eyes. TTNL saw it and commented on it too. Youre alleging that BJ didnt see it? I doubt that highly. He sees everything. You just want to protect DJ for some emotional reason.

because Odunze and Burden need more snaps, and you have to believe in your guys and go forward assuming they will grow. DJ takes snaps away from our core future players.

Signing a mid level free agent is fine, it doesnt have to be Braxton. There will be many other choices.

Every week on the TTNL game wrapup they showed film of DJ jogging routes. I saw it with my own eyes every week. Its just true.

I think I understand where you're coming from. I agree not every argument for keeping DJ is emotional. The one you presented here is well reasoned. I disagree and I'll say why, but there is nothing wrong with what youve said here in my opinion. So first off, I'm not really talking about just one play, but a real pattern of them across the whole year. I think that makes him a negative role model in terms of the veteran leadership point youre making. I also agree that we have the chance to be something really special on offense, I see that too. I just think Luther Burden is ready to step into DJs role, and I dont think DJ is really a WR1. Now both Odunze and Burden have a lot of growing up to do. I dont disagree with that at all. But I think when you have young players that you think have the ability to be special, and you have faith in your position coaches to coach them up, I think letting them play is the best way for them to grow and become the dominant players you think they can be. Right now it's a lot of mouths to feed, if you want to think of it that way, it limits the snaps of the other guys. For me, I dont see DJ getting any better. He's decent right now, but he doesnt have the upside that Odunze and Burden have. I think you could find another free agent WR to play the role Burden did this year, and let Burden step into DJs shoes. And also, yes I think DJs cap number should go to the defense.

its not a put down I MEANT it. I was saying the things that make you a good person dont necessarily apply to running a football team. Why is everyone so prickly right now? Geez.

The message is if you take plays off and jog your routes youre gone even IF youre highly paid. I LIKE that message. I like it a LOT.

exactly - it isnt rocket science. Remember the route DJ quit on causing an interception in the GB game, at the left front corner of the end zone?

Im not sure what youre saying. Ill try to take them one at a time. First here, you seem to be saying that giving full effort half the time is a good thing? Im not saying DJ never gave full effort, Im saying he quit on routes a lot, and that it caused interceptions. And not just the one - remember the Green Bay game in the left front corner of the end zone? Someone who doesnt give full effort all the time is a problem for the culture. Rome also has some hard work to do. He has a LOT of drops. Hes also on a rookie contract and still learning. DJ is getting $28.5M a year. He should be an example to inspire Rome to do better. So this is just nonsense. When you look at JT's analysis, he clearly knows a lot about routes and offensive schemes. I dont always agree with him, but I think he is right a lot. Also, I didnt say "because JT says this it must be true" LOL I have my own eyes, and I see what goes on. What I said was that it was SO bad that JT called it "F*ck You Effort" thats not just bad, its awful. But even if JT never existed, DJ is still half assing it way too much and costing this team. So i think you do understand. It feels like you just want to have some kind of loyalty for DJ. Thats nice in the real world, youd probably make an excellent friend or neighbor. But this is football, and if you want to win, then you gotta do whats necessary to build a winning team. What I dont understand is why people seem to get emotional and want to defend these players. They arent hurting from our comments. Theyre all millionaires. They deserve to be judged harshly for their play on the field. Thats how you build a winning team. With accountability - not participation trophies?

Did that really hurt your feelings? Or are you pretending so you can fight? Im not interested.

there are many ways to create cap space. I predict a good amount of turnover on the Defense.

Im saying the IDEA of worrying about a players feelings and being a fan boy is childish and stupid. That the real decisions are hard and are about money and production. Thats football. The idea that what we write here affects GMs desire to trade for DJ Moore for example is dumb. That IDEA is dumb. If we cant say that, then we cant say anything. Im talking about football, youre trying to keep this fight alive AGAIN. You are not DJ Moore, so when I say he takes plays off, that is allowed on a Bears board. DJ doesnt need you to emotionally protect him. and LOL at derogatory language. dont be such a baby. simplistic and childish are descriptors. They are words with meaning and they convey my opinion. Someone needs to tell YOU to cut it out.

It was one example of DJ Moore giving a half effort among many. It's not that former NFL QB JT OSullivan (QB School on youtube) is the ultimate authority, its just that he rightly showed DJ phoning it in. There are many examples of it. I dont understand why people get so stuck on players and dont want to improve the roster with better players.

Its time to rebuild the defense. Last year the plan was clearly to stock the offense and get it going. Dont be shocked if there are wholesale changes to this defense. We are slow and built for Cover 2, and we have no pass rush. We will look a lot different next year. Last year at this time you said two new starters on the OL (I said four). You were saying how Tevin Jenkins and Braxton Jones would play better. By now, everyone knows your loyalty to players on the roster. But the guys who arent Ben Johnson guys, not Dennis Allens guys, the ones that got drafted under Eberflus are all under the microscope. And i think there is gonna be a lot more roster turnover than people expect.

Its not a bad idea for a thread. I see how the dots line up, why it is an idea. But I think if we are considering letting DJ go because of his attitude and commitment, then we shouldnt take on another one with issues. One of the benefits of moving on from DJ would be a strong message to every player that they are replaceable if they dont keep a high standard of play. I wouldnt lose that for a WR3 at best? Also, to be fair, I've been one to argue that we need to trade Moore, and for me I saw it as keep him as he is, or trade him decision. The TTNL guys last night were talking about restructuring options that I thought made a lot of sense and might be a third way if we choose to keep him. I still think we're better off with a 3rd round pick than to restructure and keep him, but I wanted to say that the all or nothing way I was looking at his contract isn't the entire picture. I didnt think there were realistic options that gave so much cap relief. Anyway, here's the TTNL link If you dont want to watch the whole thing, fast forward to 36:25 for the cap section. Watch for at least 7 minutes to get to $64M in cap space. It's the kind of analysis you really dont get anywhere else, and its really smart and informed. It's never narrative driven, and these guys really know what theyre talking about.