nfoligno

I can't agree to so simply say "this loss is on Jay". No question what so ever he was a big part of it, but that entire offense flat out played like crap. OL - I think I read Cutler was pressured or hit around 20 times. That is freakishly high. RT was benched, and so was the RG. Kreutz was snapping into the ground all night. Garza had numerous penalties and Williams just looked like crap. This entire unit had their worst game of the year, and did so against a very mediocre (or worse) unit. RB - Sorry, but as much as people want to forgive Forte, his just does not seem to have the burst or pop he used to. He looks hesitant and frankly, weaker than in the past. The OL is as bad as I can ever recall, but that does not mean Forte's play isn't part of the problem too. Just like Cutler doesn't get absolved of blame for the poor play of the OL, nor does Forte. Yes, he did look good on the screens, but that is a small part of the game only. Hey, the OL looked good on the screens too, but I don't see anyone looking to say they had a good game. WR - Pathetic. Hester I still think has develed this year as a WR, but this last game, he looked worse than I can ever recall. WRs were otherwise struggling to get open, and as usual failing to came back and hep out the QB when he was pressured. This does not even touch on Turner. Cutler played a bad game. Besides the picks, he had numerous others which were either poor decisions, poor passes, or potentially more picks. He simply had a bad game. But I can't say the loss is on him. The offense as a whole played too poorly to pin the loss on any one person.

Your not buying that? What, you have never heard of a player whose day is over due to the wind being knocked out? Obvious sarcasm. I mentioned this the other day two. For the record, it ticks me off Lovie even said this as it is yet another example of Lovie treating everyone like stupic and ignorant people. When you get the win knocked out, you miss a play, maybe two. You sure as hell are not done for the game. To even say that is flat out insulting. Back to Pace/Shaffer. It should be the end of Pace, but w/ this staff, who knows. But I am not sure Shaffer is any better. What should be done is, Williams to LT and Shaffer to RT.

Jason. Sorry, but you are making excuses here you never would have for Rex or Orton. You and I are so often on the same page, but as high as I am on Cutler, I simply will not just excuse him for a game like this one. You say that stats don't tell the whole story. I agree. There were numerous other passes that could have also been picked off. On the first pick, you really seem to excuse Rex. you can blame Turner all you want, but Cutler made an awful decision. There were four 9'er jerseys, and one Bear jersey. I don't care if Turner made a bad call. When running the play, if the primary is covered (not to mentioned covered by 4 defenders) you don't throw his way. This was early in the game. There was simply no reason to force the throw. Throw it away and take 3. Then, we can talk about Turner and why we had to settle for 3 rather than 7, but that we setting for ZERO rather than 3 is 100% on Cutler. Pick 4 (this was Hester over the middle, right) I think are are a bit quick to excuse Cutler. Sorry, but I don't think it was as 100% as you make out. The DB had his eyes on the QB, and has the right to go for the ball also. Maybe it should have been PI, but I don't think it was as clear cut as you make out. Further, Hester was covered. Period. That doesn't mean a perfect pass followed by a perfect catch doesn't equal a great play, but that isn't the point. Hester was not open. He was covered. AFter throwing 3 picks already, you would think he might not try to continue to throw to WRs who are covered. Pick 5 - What do I expect from our franchise QB? Win the game. The play wasn't there. On a play like that, with what, 6 seconds. You run the play, and if the D has it covered, you quickly throw it 15 yards over the WRs, and out of the endzone. Then you write another play, and try again. Look. When you make a post like this, you give fuel to those who would defend Rex and Orton and say Cutler was a bad trade. You do this because you would have never made such a post in the past when Rex or Orton had similar days. Make no mistake. Plenty of Rex' and Orton's picks were not their fault. Rex was screwed over by the WRs many times as they would allow the ball to bounce off their hands, and then watch it go into the hands of the defender. Rex throw 5 picks. Not all where 100% on him, but (a) 2 were in the red zone, ( one was the potential game winner/ender and © there were numerous other would-be picks that are not going to be reflected in the stat sheet, but that doesn't mean he didn't have other poor passes.

With the understanding that I neither think Cutler is our savior, nor incapable of doing wrong, I would make a couple points: Knowing what I know now, I would still make the trade. Yes, we have a lot of work to do, and much to build, but it is far better to have a franchise QB to build around. Your can work on building up your team for years, but w/o a frachise QB, it rarely seems to last. You might have a good year, or even two, but w/o a franchise QB, you rarely find a team sustain that sort of success. There have been a couple teams in recent history to win a SB (or just make it) w/o a franchise QB in place, but rarely do they sustain that same level of success for long. On the other hand, when you look at the teams who not only achieve a high level of success, but do so over the long haul, I think all would have one thing in common. A franchise QB. So while we have a lot of work to do, I would much rather be in a situation where we have a franchise QB in place, and build up around him, rather than the situation we would be in otherwise, where we not only have to rebuild, but do so w/o a single player to build around. There is also a fairly pessimistic way of looking back at the trade. What would Angelo have done w/ the picks if we had not traded them away. History has not proven that Angelo's picks would have been difference makers anyway, and thus just because we would have more picks to work with does not mean we would have been in a better situation. Finally, I would throw this out there. Lets say we don't make the trade. While a few would disagree, I think most would agree Orton (on this team) would not have looked like a franchise QB, thus there is at least a decent change Angelo would have been forced to use one of those high picks he sent to Denver instead on a rookie QB. If you think about it that way, we have not lost as much in trading away the picks.

To be honest, Stl may counter the argument more than make it. The Rams have not thrown as many picks, thus you might argue they do a better job of playing within their limitations. On the other hand, they have only won 1 game this year, while losing 7. Playing within your limitations is all well and good, but when your offense puts up an average of 9.6 points a game, while getting shut out twice, I am not sure it isn't better to take some shots and push those limitations a bit more.

Its a nice thought, but I just don't know. When faced up against CBs this year, he has not been able to get open. Olsen is such that he is a mismatch against LBs and S', but if the other team puts a CB on him, he can't get open. I think the better answer is to simply force teams to play their CBs on our WRs. Part of that is on our receivers, but another big part is on our run game. Too often this year, teams have used the nickel to matchup against us, using a 3rd CB to play Olsen. That means we "should" be killing teams on the ground, but we have not even been able to run the ball against opponents nickel defenses.

I really can't rip on him to be honest. I wish I had the committment to stay in as good of shape as he does. I might commit myself at the gym for a couple months, but all it takes is one long weekend off, and I find myself donating months on end to the club w/o ever so much as an appearance. I would much rather a roided out looking ref like Hock on the field than the fat arce we saw last night. Can't be good to have a ref more round than the DTs on the field, and who can't run w/ the play, thus you know he misses calls.

I have done such summaries many times in the past, and w/ far more detail than above. At the end of the day though, I think we can simply look at his draft history as such. He often finds usuable parts, but rarely finds those greats. Few teams win w/o great players. There is no question you need to find numerous nice or solid players in a draft, but you simply can't go so many years drafting nice players w/o hiting big more often.

Be careful not to make this mistake. My position is well known, and I agree w/ basically everything you have said. At the same time, be careful not to go so far as to excuse Cutler for the decisions he has made. W/ all the OL, WR and Run game woes last night, if he played smarter football, we get a couple FGs and win the game. We can discuss which ints were on him and which were on other factors, but at the end of the day, when you have 5 picks on your stat sheet, and frankly, numerous others that could have been picked off, then part of the problem is poor decision making. I say be careful because Cutler needs to learn a lesson from games like this. That doesn't mean he has to totally change, but he does need to learn and realize he doesn't have to try and win the game with each pass. He needs to learn that sometimes, it is better to take a sack or throw it away than to try and thread the needle between 4 defenders. There are plenty of reasons why this offense sucks, but while not ignoring any of it, we can not excuse Cutler for a performance like last night. If we do, he may never learn. If he never learns, we may as well have Rex back. Yea, Cutler is better in every way, but if he doesn't learn from games like this, his talent will be a burden as much as an asset. Orton was limited as a QB, but at least he knew his limitations. Cutler needs to learn his limitations.

2002 Alex Brown - Still starting. Adrian Peterson - Say what you want, but for a late 6th, this was a solid pick. Columbo to some extent. Didn't work for us, but was solid talent evaluation. 2003 Tillman - Still starting Briggs - Maybe his best pick ever. Bunch of other nice depth chart players. 2004 Harris - Question it, but he was elite before the injury. Berrian - Solid WR we let walk due to money Vasher - Say what you will today, but a very solid 4th round value who starting in the SB. 2005 While this year didn't work for us, Benson, Orton and Chris Harris are all NFL starters, just for other teams. But again, do we give Angelo credit for the talent evaluation? 2006 Hester, DM and Anderson, but only Hester was that great. 2007 Still like Graham and Beekman, but the staff doesn't. Olsen needs to prove a lot IMHO. 2008 and 2009 are near impossible to consider w/o using the potential tag, though Forte has made a case. Honestly, if you look at the history, Angelo has drafted a ton of players who are in the NFL still today, many of which are starting. What Angelo has failed to do, IMHO, is draft "special" players. He drafted Briggs, who is special. He drafted Harris, who was special. That is about it though. There are other nice or solid players, but no one else that is a difference maker. Sadly, Benson might be the 3rd best, special, player we drafted, but that is an entirely different story.

That would absolutely draw the flag, but not the fine. Maybe he asked if Hock and Goddell were sleeping together. That would draw the flag and fine.

Actually, he worked well last night. As a DECOY! He would block left, and Forte would then cut right:) Basically, all McKie does is help the defense plug the hole. Even when our OL does open a small crack of a hole, McKie lead blocks and fills it.

It can be debated whether or not you need an animated coach or low key coach to win, but there is no question last night we saw a stark contrast in coaching styles. I watch games at a bar w/ many other bear fans (in Dallas) and we commented all night on what you said. After every series, Singletary was nearly running onto the field to talk to his players. He was "teaching" his players non stop, throughout the game. Both offense and Defense. He was constantly talking to and working with the players. And did you all see him when something bad happened. He was quick to get in the face of the kicker after the miss. After poor plays, you just knew players were not looking forward to getting to the sideline and hearing from Singletary. Anyone think our players fear heading to the sideline after a bad play? On our sideline, some questioned whether Lovie was awake, or one of those people who can sleep w/ their eyes open. He just stood their like a statue. You rarely saw him say a word to a player, good or bad.

From PFT, Cutler fined $20,000 for "abusive conduct" Jay Cutler has doled out a lot of abuse of late. He punished Bears fans and fantasy owners with five interceptions Thursday night, not to mention viewers tuning in to Thursday Night Football looking for a quality game. Now he's been fined $20,000 for "abusive conduct" toward a game official in Chicago's loss to the Cardinals five days ago, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter. Cutler was flagged during the game for an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty when he complained to referee Ed Hochuli about a non-call on a fourth-and-4 in the third quarter in which Cutler thought Greg Olsen was held. See, Mike: Cutler does care! (Amazingly, Bears defensive tackle Tommie Harris was fined only $7,500 for punching Cardinals guard Deuce Lutui in the same game.) Players, and QBs in particular, go up and complain the to refs on a near constant basis. Rarely do you see a flag thrown for such conduct, and I have never heard of a $20k find for complaining to an official. I don't recall Cutler touching the official, so what the hell could Cutler have said to the ref to not only draw a flag, but a $20k fine?

Another incredible Turner Quote, "I think he was making good decisions, I don't think he was forcing the issue," offensive coordinator Ron Turner said of Cutler Even "my glass is always 1/2 full" Lovie said he wished Cutler made better decisions out there. I have defended Turner at times in the past under the belief that few in history could compensate for an OL this bad, but no more.

While some picks were not on him, I think most are bashing the hell out of Cutler. Cutler is in fact getting the Rex treatment, both nationally, locally, and on this board, and he deserves it. I still believe Cutler has far more talent than Rex, and that he will prove to be our franchise QB, but at the same time, there is just no question he played like Rex last night.

Honestly, I just can't send out too much credit to the defense. Sorry, but SF is not a good offense. Their OL is questionable, especially in pass protection, and was playing w/o at least one starting OT. I thought Alex Brown, playing against a backup, would look far better than he did. I thought Wale had a pretty solid game, and Harris had his best game in years. But again, lets not pretend they were facing a great OL, and their QB is Alex Freaking Smith. I give credit to the defense, but lets not get carried away. While SF is better than Cle, they are not even an average offense, much less a good one.

Regarding Olsen, the other thing about him that drives me nuts is how soft he is. Did anyone else notice how he seemed to go down on numerous shoe lace tackles? The TE position is supposed to be filled w/ a guy w/ an attitude and toughness. It is mind boggling to have a finesse TE, but that is what Olsen seems to be. Could he play WR? I don't know. Earlier this season, he was getting matched up against opponents CBs, and Olsen was pretty much shut down. I think he looks best when he initially lines up at TE, then motions outside, where the D is forced to play a LB or S in space against him.

While I am not disagreeing about the play of the offense as a whole, or that our players are soft, don't excuse Cutler either. It was a close game, and Cutler simply did not need to force the ball as he did. Pick - As you said, it was awful, and that was a tone-setting play. Pick - Not on Cutler at all. If these were the only two picks, he would be excused far more, but they continued to come. Pick - You say miscommunication between Cutler and Hester. Others would also say Hester was bumped on the route. Honestly though, if Hester were not bumped, I am not totally sure it would matter. Cutler led Hester too far, and the DB was in position to make the play. It was an ill-advised pass. Pick - You say Davis was too soft. Fine. But at the same time, there were a ton of 9'ers in the picture, and to make the play, it would have taken a near impossible pass. Davis was covered. Period. Throw it away and take the 3 points. He forced it. Question Davis' toughness, but that does not excuse the pass itself. Pick - While I agree that on the last pick, there was more reason to force it, at the same time, it was still (a) a bad pass and ( a smart QB throws it away and runs another play. Simply put, Cutler wasn't smart. Frankly, there were several other near picks too. Cutler was making bad decisions all game. Sure, he was pressured, but that does not excuse bad decisions. Sometimes it is simply better to take the sack than to try and force some of the passes he did.

"We knew we were going to throw on every down, so that's why we made a switch," Ron Turner said about inserting the larger Omiyale at the end of the game." Omiyale has not just been bad on run downs this year. He has been miserable on passing downs as well. In fact, I actually think he has been worse on passing downs than run downs. So why the hell would we insert Omiyale in there on the final drive when we plan to pass the ball. There was a point in the 2nd quarter when the OL started to play a bit better, but it didn't last long. This OL was a joke. Bears say Pace got the wind knocked out of him, but how stupid does Lovie think we are. Getting the wind knocked out of you might take you out for a play, but not the rest of the game. Pace was benched, and deserved it. On the other hand, so did the entire group. If Pace is going to sit moving forward, I really hope we move Williams to LT and Schaffer to RT. Williams was God-awful last night, but if our scouts felt him to be a franchise LT, we may as well begin to look and develop him there. This season is now about development, and he needs to get to work on the position he was drafted to play. Schaffer starts at RT from here on out, and Omiyale begins practicing at RT with an opportunity to compete there next offseason. Beekman starts at LG, and is not pulled at the end of the game, which just kills me. Especially after watching last night, I would love to say Kreutz gets competition, but I just don't see it. Fix LT, LG and RT now, and after 2010, Kreutz is gone and replaced.

Before the season, our lack of weapons at WR was well known. While some thought it would be better, the OL was far from a known asset. Entering the season, I think many fans believed Cutler to be so good that he would still win w/ a weak OL and a lack of weapons. That was the thinking behind the superman comment. You say you are not expecting superman, and I agree there is flat out no excuse for those picks. At the same time, are we not expecting a superman effort if we expect a QB to play behind this OL, w/ this group of weapons, absolutely no run game, and questionable playcalling, to win and look good doing it? I'm telling you, Payton Manning would struggle if he were inserted into our offense as it is. No, he would not throw 5 picks. But he would not look very good either. Would Orton look better? Still don't see it. Didn't Orton just lose 3 picks? No, he didn't throw 5, but he also has a superior OL and weapons to support him. I don't think there is a perception, much less a reality, that we got fleeced from Denver. Even when Orton was playing at a high level, most were still calling him a system QB, and not making out like he was special. In the last two games, he (in public opinion) has not only fallen back to Earth, but has done so in fairly dramatic fashion. When all is said and done, I think we will still look the better for the trade. As bad as last night was, when talking about the future, I think we are still absolutely talking about building around Cutler.

I still to this day have no issue with the move. History has proven that no return man continues to be as effective as Hester over the long haul. Teams adjust, and the ability of that player to continue at such a level simply goes away. Moving him to WR provides an opportunity to play at a high level over a longer period of time. What a game like last night shows though is our need to move him back into a slot role. From the slot, he could be a very dangerous weapon. In the #1 WR role though, he is hurting more than helping. While he makes some very good plays, he simply lacks the consistency. You need far less consistency in your play when you are a slot WR, than if you are the #1 WR who the QB is relying upon.

Regarding WR, I'm still convinced, as I have been all along, that we still need a real #1. Just becasue Hester catches the most passes or gets the most yards, doesn't make him a "#1". Millen or the other buffoon mentioned during the game that you need a guy that is a pro WR. Someone playing the part all his athletic career basically. We still need that. The savvy is not there with the guys we have. All can be great #2's, but we still have no #1. My point all along was that (a) OL has to be the priority and ( I wanted to give this group some opportunity to develop. While the WRs have developed more than I think some have expected, I agree a better receiving option would benefit us all around. Our WRs are doing some good things, but the negatives just don't seem to be changing. I still see weak route running. I still see an inability to get open. I still see WRs w/ their backs to the QB when the QB is running for his life. Also, I am so damn tired of watching our WRs run a route upfield, stop and turn, but not come back to the ball at all, allowing the DB an opportunity to move up and get into position. I still argue OL is far more a need than WR, but last night went a long way for those who feel WR should be a high priority as well. I fear Cutler may be a bust. I really do. At least with this staff. I don't agree w/ this at all. I think Cutler simply is not Superman, as many here (myself included) hoped. He can not get it done by himself. Not only must we as fans realize this, but so must Cutler. To me, last night it just seemed like Cutler felt the need to win the game single handed, and essentially lost it in the process. I believe Cutler will be the franchise QB we had hoped for, but (a) we need to build around him and ( he needs to realize he isn't superman.

Just for the record, and this surprised the hell out of me when I heard it, but a couple weeks ago, Mike Golic said few players actually wear a cup.

Not every pick was Cutler's fault. With that said, Cutler had an awful game. Simply put, he was forcing things. He was trying to make plays when he just didn't have to. If we were getting blown out, like in the Az or Cincy game, I could better understand forcing the issue as he did. If you are down numerous scores, you can understand forcing it as a punt of FG is simply not going to get it done. But it was a close game, and throwing it away, or just taking a sack, better keeps you in the game than what Cutler did. Cutler is going to get absolutely ripped for last night, and deserves every bit of it. At the same time, while not giving him any excuses, I just hope an equal amount of attention is given to the rest of the offense. That was as bad as I have seen from everyone on that unit. No exceptions. QB - Do I really even need to discuss this? RB - While I believe Forte showed better vision, I also think he looks flat out slow out there. If he ran the 40 today, what time would he put up? 4.75? He just does not seem to have the pop or burst he did last year, and I think this is also affecting his power as he is running slower and not getting the momentum. There were times he ran into a LB and bounced backward as if he hit a brick wall. WR - After talking so much about how much better our WRs have looked this year, they seemed to take a dramatic step back, especially Hester. Just yesterday I talked about Hester improved focus, but last night was pathetic. On one series, he gets a false start, followed by a holding penalty, putting the O in a big hole. He followed that up w/ the slip and fall leading to the interception. All night, Hester seemed to struggle, and the rest were little better. When Cutler actually did have time, our WRs seemed incapable of getting open. This was not a good secondary, and they were missing their top CB. There is simply no excuse for the play of our WRs last night. OL - I have ripped the OL for years, but that was beyond belief. Too often, the OL was pushed straight back. They spent more time in our backfield than not. Cutler was under pressure about the same time he was looking up. SF entered the game w/ a fairly inept pass rush, which was a key reason their pass defense sucked. That such a mediocre group looked like the steel curtain against us speaks loud and clear. None of this excuses the play of Cutler. The crap he tried to do and get away w/ was just flat out stupid. What last night showed was just how far we have to go. This is not a good team. Hell, this is not an average team. This is a bad team.