
nfoligno
Super Fans-
Posts
4,931 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Everything posted by nfoligno
-
Like I said, when it comes to Benson, I think there is more than enough blame to go around, and yes, that is an area I blame the coaches. One area I go back and forth on is to what extent the staff could have intervened in the locker room. Just throwing out there a what if. What if a bunch of veterans, captains on the team, were BFFs with Orton, and resented our trading him away for Orton. What if those same leaders of the team showed their hate to Cutler every chance they got, and essentially formed a Cutler hate group within the team. Should the staff intervene? Should the staff bring those leaders into the office and let them know Cutler is the frachise QB, and they need to get on board w/ that fact or leave town or simply let things play out? I really don't know the answer to this question. On one hand, I think players are men and men need to work things out for themselves. On the other hand, when you have so much invested into a player, you need to get control of a situation. I think the staff tried to let things handle themselves, and that didn't work, due to Benson not having the character to deal w/ those who simply didn't like him. I just wonder if Lovie could have done more to intervene.
-
Here's the interview with Benson I was referring to. He talks about making a lot of personal changes after, "for the first time in [his] life, football was not there." He specifically touches on how, when he was making all these changes in his personal life, he didn't allow himself to even think about playing football, he just focused on being a better person. That tells me that, whatever his reasons were, this turnaround was something he wasn't going to do while playing pro football, no matter who he was playing for. By his own admission, the guy needed some time away from the game to get some perspective and get his head on straight. I remember that article now, and re-read it. I guess the thing for me is, I just have never felt Benson sounded like a man who was humbled. In fact, didn't he say recently that he felt he was blackballed by the bears, or something like that. I person who changes because they are out of football usually does so because they have been humbled, and come to realize things they never would have if they were not kicked out of the game. Benson seems to believe he got hosed (IMHO) more than he believes he really screwed up. Just my opinion. I know he's also made some comments to the effect that he feels more welcomed in Cincinnati, and there's probably something to that. Mike Brown has made that team a home for a lot of guys who need a second chance; sometimes that's worked out badly (Odell Thurman comes to mind) and sometimes it's worked out really well (with Benson and with Chris Henry, before he broke his arm at least.) But after reading his interviews, there's no doubt in my mind that Benson was a very, very different guy when the Bengals first brought him in than he was when he left Chicago. ...again, I'm not saying it was everyone. Clearly there were a lot of people, myself included, who just saw a guy who piled up huge yardage in college. Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but there were some eerily accurate questions about Benson that were out there at the time, and it's Angelo's job to get answers to them before spending a #4 pick on him. I read to quotes, but cut them to keep this post clean. I remember some minor questions, but honestly, that is what they were at the time. Minor. Benson is college was fairly ripped, and few questioned his workout habits. Some might have questioned his running out of bounds at times, while others would point out it took Mack Brown a couple years to get Benson to do that. You have to remember, Benson carried the ball a LOT of times, and the staff had to teach him that he didn't always have to take a lick. I always wondered about questioning the desire of a player who carried the ball that many times. He may not have been a leader, but he was actually one of the more popular players on the team, and was well liked. The top knocks I recall on Benson were (a) number of carries. A RB has only so many carries in him before he begins to break down. Benson carried the ball so many times, from HS to college, that there was concern his NFL career would be shortened. ( One time he was asked whether he would rather win the Heisman or the national championship, and he said the Heisman. That was VERY widely reported. What wasn't reported nearly so much was that he immediately explained that in his mind, if he won the Heisman, he would have carried the team to the title, thus in his mind, he was trying to say he wanted both, but it absolutely didn't come out that way, and he was blasted for it. There were other concerns, but while some may have questioned his character, it sure was not a common concern. You can argue we should have known, and maybe we should have, but my point is that his character was not such a well known issue, and that when you have a player as talented (perception at least) as he was, you tend to overlook minor flags. Oh yeah, the other draft picks bit was shameless hindsight on my part. On balance, 2005 might have been the worst year to have a high first-round pick that I can remember. I'm not actually faulting Angelo for failing to look into a crystal ball and see that some fourth-round pick out of Notre Dame named Justin Tuck was going to be a superstar. That said, of the list you've got there, I would definitely prefer Carlos Rogers to Benson, and he was (if memory serves) considered very good when he was coming out of Auburn. That much isn't hindsight. ...but thank god we didn't draft Pacman, Troy Williamson, Mike Williams...man, that was a bad first round. But even w/ Rogers, if you go back to that season, we thought we had two very good CBs in Tillman and Vasher, right? Like you said, at the end of the day, that was one sorry year to have a high pick. In the end, while it didn't work out for us, you could easily make the argument that Benson was the best talent available at the time, but it simply didn't work out for us.
-
Okay everyone. Lets all simmer down. No. Orton is not as good as he has been over the first half of the season, nor is he as bad as he was against Pitt in the 4th quarter. For once, we should have no need to "hate" on another QB. We have a franchise QB of our own. We don't have to put down another QB in order to prop up ours. All we need to do is f'ing protect our QB so he stays uprights. The only person who really has reason to, at least right now, hate on Orton is Drunkbomber
-
Well hell yes you "still like the trade." Just playing. Well, if it makes you feel any better, I nearly kicked my TV when it appeared Mendenhal fumbled at the goal line, and then they opt not to let him run it in. Of course then Mr. Orton throws another pick to lock it up for me. Earlier, I donated to a charity. Maybe there is such a thing as Karma?
-
Yeah, Tank's value on the field was severely undercut by the imminent likelihood that he would get busted again. And Benson simply wasn't the player that he is now. By his own account, he didn't start to take his career seriously until he was sitting at home and no teams were calling. After that, he says he started taking his diet/training/preparation seriously. Benson's clearly reinvented himself; but if it took not only getting fired, but getting fired and having to wait for two months by his phone for him to finally get the message, then there was no way he was going to turn it around in Chicago. Benson's always going to be a waste of a Chicago draft pick, but it's hard to fault the coaching staff for it. Just asking, but when did he say he took his career serious after sitting at home.... Everything I have read that he said was basically that he changed after being on a team where he felt cared for and part of the team. I remember when he was first with Cincy last year, and how often he talked about the difference in the teams and alluding to that being the reason for his improved play. Many bear fans blasted him for just such comments. That said, I absolutely fault Jerry Angelo for drafting him. Sure, Benson ran over a lot of teams when he was at Texas, but people already knew that he had questionable desire and poor work habits before he declared for the draft. Guys who are used to coasting on their natural talent and ability are rarely worth the draft pick: just ask a Carolina fan about Julius Peppers. Angelo should have red-flagged Benson as a guy who didn't really want to play football; then we could have spent that pick on DeMarcus Ware/Jammal Brown/Carlos Rogers/Logan Mankins. Hell, if Angelo was dead-set on a running back, we could have reached all the way down to day 2 and taken Frank Gore or Marion Barber or Brandon Jacobs. Those guys clearly wanted to play football, at least. I honestly don't recall so many red flags on Benson prior to the draft. It is hard to imagine today, but you make it out like it was well known that he was a flake in college, but I just don't recall reading close to such, and frankly, I followed him while he was in college. Finally, I think you are using a tad bit of hindsight 20/20 when talking about who we could have, should have drafted. Its easy to look deep in the draft for the best RB taken, or ignore needs and say we should have taken this player or that, but it isn't realistic. Here are the players taken after Benson: Cadillac Williams, Pacman Jones, Troy Williamson, Antrel Rolle, Carlos Rogers, Mike Williams That doesn't look that impressive.
-
You can have man coverage, while also playing double coverage. We had Tillman on Fitz in man coverage, but provided no help. That is putting a CB on an island w/ the WR. But you can also have a CB play man coverage, while ALSO adding support. You say that is double coverage, but the CB is still playing man. I agreed w/ your point that Tillman should have had help on Fitz. My point was simply that, while agreeing w/ that point, I liked that we played Tillman on Fitz in man coverage, rather than zone. Tillman should have had help over the top from the safety, but even if we slid the safety to that side of the field, and essentially had a double team on Fitz, that would not mean Tillman would no longer be in man coverage.
-
I blame the staff for much, but I still only place so much blame on them for these two players so much. Honestly, what more could the staff have done w/ Tank? The dude went to prison, and still didn't seem to learn his lesson. Some will disagree and say the DWI that never happened didn't mean anything, but to me, it showed that he still hadn't learned that when you put yourself into questionable situations, the results are rarely good. When you drink, even some, and then get behind the wheel at 2am, you are putting yourself into a questionable situation, and that is what he did, and very shortly after being released from jail. This staff gave him numerous chances, but at the end of the day, he simply didn't seem to learn his lesson. Similar w/ Benson. There are two areas I do question the staff. (a) I still do not believe we had the right scheme for a RB like Benson. Our blocking scheme was good for a RB like TJ or Forte, but not for a power runner like Benson. ( I still wonder if the staff could not have done more to intervene w/ the players. If Lovie brought in the team captains and told them this is our franchise RB, and they needed to try and do more to assist rather than the opposite, maybe things could have been different. At the end of the day, it didn't work out w/ either player, but I still struggle to really place all the blame on the staff.
-
I will admit that I may be extra harsh as I may be predisposed to be negative toward this unit. I didn't like this group entering the season, and like it less now, obviously. At the same time, as bad as Omiyale was, I also think the problems were far beyond just him. If Pace were simply getting beaten on the inside, then I might see an argument that an OT that pushes the DE inside usually pushes that DE into a clutter where the OG is blocking the DT. But Pace has, IMHO, been getting flat out torched on the edge. That really doesn't have much to do w/ Omiyale. I believe you have argued that if a better LG makes his block, then the QB has room to step up. While I agree that is true, at the same time, I disagree an OT is doing his job effectively if the QB has to move to avoid the rush of the DE. Our grades on Kreutz, Garza and Williams are really not "that" different. In fact, in each of those, we are only off by one degree. But there is just no way Pace gets any sort of a C in my book. He has been getting beaten way too often, not to mention getting hit w/ penalties, which is often a sign of an OL having to cheat to compensate for a lack of ability.
-
One thing that really bothers me here is the play of Harrison. Harrison was among those who many believed could really take it up a notch w/ the addition of Marinelli. In Harrison, you had a player who "fell" to us due to some red flags in the draft, but was otherwise considered a borderline 1st/2nd round pick. The thinking was, w/ a DL coach like Marinelli, Harrison would really develop. Thus far, not only have I not seen that development, but he has looked pretty bad IMHO.
-
If Lovie really believes this he should be fired.
nfoligno replied to butkusrules's topic in Bearstalk
Day one. A players base salary for that season becomes guaranteed prior to the first game. I do not recall the specific day, but it is either prior to, or at the time of, the first game. Thus, if a player is on the 53 man roster for the first game of the season, his base salary becomes guaranteed. This is why some teams will cut a player prior to the first game, only to resign them by the 2nd game. By doing this, they risk losing the player, but if they can re-sign him, his contract is not guaranteed for the season, and I believe he is paid basically on a per game basis. Also, something that should be noted is, a big chunk of the money Tommie got was in the form of a roster bonus. That was something like $8m or more, and that too is already guaranteed. -
Guilty as charged. At least on the debator part, not the soccer part. Can't stand the sport, and it pained me when my daughter wanted to play, and I even had to help coach. The phrase "slant and argument" is one I guess I don't understand. I know you are just having fun, but I honestly do not get it. If you are making an argument or a point, you make your case. The other side makes theirs. Either side will feel the points and arguments are "slanted" I suppose, but how exactly do you make your case w/o doing such? We discuss/debate opinions, and thus everything is slanted. Now, you really want to have fun, throw out some statistics, and use those same "facts" to argue to opposite sides. Now, that is some slanting
-
Didn't dodge the question. Honestly, I personally felt the deal was one sided enough that other factors would not make up enough of a difference. At the same time, you are right in that a team in dire need for a position will more often take a lesser deal in order to improve at a position. For example, your friend doesn't have an elite QB. Now, once again, the bears sure as crap made him look elite, but this year, Warner has not been as elite as he had in the past. Thus, if there was a QB in the deal which improved his situation at that position, yes, that would be a big factor. I assume your argument is he needed RB depth. He had Slaton and Grant, but his depth wasn't all that. Okay, I see the point. For me, need of RB depth is not usually such a great need as to trade away your best WR and best RB. Look, it really boils down to a couple things. I think more of Slaton than you. Thus when I saw a package where you received not only AJ, but Slaton, that seemed a bit hinky. It appears, from your end, the value of Slaton is simply not as great, and thus the value of the package you received is very different from my perspective. You think I showed too much info in the post, or too much w/ my opinion. At the end of the day, I think you simply didn't like your deal being called out, and frankly, there is no way I could have worded such a thread which would have made you comfortable. As I have said, I have no intention of name calling or any of that crap. I threw it out there for dicussion. Yea, I gave my opinion, but that is what you do in a discussion. I said all along I would apologize if it was a legit deal. After discussion w/ you, despite your taking this to a personal level, I regardless apologized. I said you got the better of the deal (congrats) but that after listening to you, don't think you or your friend were trying to pull a fast one. Thus I said I was sorry, and wanted to move on.
-
Saying no one has sucked near as much as Omiyale is not saying much though. Omiyale has been so bad he should be wearing a Cleveland Browns uniform and playing QB. LT - Pace - D minus - He has been called out for poor play, but I think the hate would have been even greater if not for the play of Omiyale next to him. LG - Omiyale - I would give an F minus grade, but would that even do justice to his play? Omiyale has been to the LG position what Derrick Anderson has been to the QB position this year. Saying a QB gets an F minus rating after posting a 0.0 QB rating doesn't do his play justice, and neither does giving Omiyale an F minus grade. C - Kreutz - C minus - He has been bad, but among this group, his bad play has not been nearly as obvious. RG - Garza - C - He has not done much in the run game, but at the same time, I have not seen him often getting blown up in the passing game either. RT - Williams - D+ - I just think his play has been this bad. Not only has he failed to open holes on run downs, he is often pushed backward, and in the passing game, he seems to be getting beaten early and often, and by both speed and power. I still tend to believe he is simply on the wrong side of the ball, but evaluating him simply as a RT, I think his play has been simply bad, and (common theme) only the awful play of others has kept Williams from the spotlight.
-
Again, at this point what you have already said makes me realize what kind of guy you are and that you are a sore loser and a whiner. I didnt need FF to see that either. Anyone on these forums has seen you bitch and moan about something at some point. Im not going to overlook you calling me a cheater in a league where money is involved because you think you know what these players values are more than me, the other team involved and yahoo. You went to the extreme of making this thread and put such a bullshit spin on everything to make me look like a cheater. Thats a shady/jag off thing to do and it was very easy to expose and good luck the rest of the way, youre going to need it. Man, I almost have to laugh. To begin, and for the record, I specifically didn't mention names in the trade. While those in our league would obviously know, I left off the names as our league is a minority of owners. I wasn't trying to call you out to everyone, but just trying to gain others opinions. I said from the beginning I would apologize if others felt my perception was off, which I did for the record, yet you continue to try and make this more than it was. Now, you even need to take this to another level and call me out as a whiner on our boards, and acting like I am some hated nay-sayer on the board. Now who is coming off as the whiner. Dude. I started a thread, asking for feedback. You say I began w/ a BS spin, but that is a joke. My original post is there for all to see, and it does little more than list the players involved. It was not until later I explained why I felt the deal was off. At the end of the day, I said I was sorry, which I said I would do at the beginning. I said I was wrong, that it was not a brother in law trade, but simply one you (in my eyes) got the better end of. Yet rather than accept an apology, you feel the need to continue an attack. So be it. Enjoy the attack. I guarantee you will do little more than come off sounding every bit like the whiner you are accusing me of being.
-
I can see the argument against the switch more for Pace than for Williams. Pace has never, that I know of, played RT. Maybe he could, but he does not have the experience on that side, and thus the transition might be more difficult. Williams on the other hand played LT in college, and that is where he worked last offseason and this offseason prior to the Pace acquisition. I don't think Williams moving over would be as dramatic. Shaffer was flat out awful in camp, but at this point, maybe it is worth inserting him at RT.
-
From what I read, at some point, either during that play or a prior play, Harris felt the OL tried to knee him (or do something) at Tommie's knee. It was written that Tommie is a bit sensative about his knee due to the previous injuries, and that OL is known as a fairly dirty player. So, however it came down, Tommie felt the OL was specifically targeting his knee. As for when the two were on the ground, it is my understanding that whatever the OL did had already taken place. From what the announcers said, Tommie was under the OL, then flipped him over (not difficult when the other player thinks the play is over) and while on top, took the sucker punch. I think the OL likely did something. As you said, players don't often sucker punch w/o cause. At the same time, it was still a bone-headed move.
-
Garza is done, his knees are shot. I haven't seen anything out of him. Also, considering Kreutz plays the much more important spot on the line and is an undisputed leader on the team, I'll take him. His knees are shot? I have not seen much of anything saying his knees were injured like that. Look, I am not saying he has played well. FAR from it. I have not seen him opening up holes for Forte to run through by any stretch. At the same time, I have not often seen him getting flat out blown up while his man put pressure on Cutler. I have seen all four of the other OL getting blown up each week. I am not making Garza out to be more than he is. At the same time, I simply have not seen him play as poorly as others. That isn't to say he has played well. Just not "as" bad as the rest. As for Kreutz, he is the undisputed leader of a sorry ass unit. Not much to credit there.
-
While I am not arguing that Cincy and Az have good offenses, we have made them look all-world. Further, not only were we pathetic against the pass, but we were also pathetic both weeks against the run. The worst rushing team in the NFL (Az) tore us up for close to 200 yards. Look, at this point, I can't stand Harris either, but I do think this is something that has to be considered. Maybe it is a bit like Urlacher. Urlacher seemed a shell of his former self, but even that shell was significantly better than the alternatives. Since we lost Urlacher this year, those holes over the middle have grown to the side of the grand canyon. No one questions that Harris is not as good of a player as he once was. What I wonder is whether that shell of his former self is still that much better than the alternatives. Understand, this is as much an indictment of the rest of our DTs as it is a potential positive comment on Harris.
-
RG? Garza has probably been our best OL this year. Now, I still don't think he is much more than average, but he is far from our weakest link. In order for me: LG - Omiyale was unbelievably bad. Beekman finally inserted, but if he is the future at C, then he isn't the future at LG. LT - Pace has been nearly as bad as Omiyale. RT - I still want to see Williams on the left, but on the right, I think he has sucked. C - Kreutz simply continues to do downhill RG - Garza has not been good, but has been the lesser of evils this season.
-
Bottom line the trade was extremely fair. I havent looked at the other trades in the league but I would easily say by the end of the year it will be the most balanced trade and will make both teams better. You left out all of the variables in the trade, accused me of cheating and waited until I played you to mention it instead of vetoing it or bringing it up before. I understand why people dont like trades like this because A. people value players differently and B. it makes both teams better and why would anyone want two teams to improve? One. I actually did veto it. Two. You say I waiting until we played each other, but talk about skewing the facts. The trade was simply made in the week you and I happened to face off. Lets not pretend this deal went down a couple weeks ago, and I just now brought it up. It was very obvious what your intentions were with this thread and Im not going to be accused of cheating by someone who is bitter. Your evaluations of the players I traded a way are a complete joke and you made it sound like I got four studs in exchange for nothing because you want people to agree with you. I'm not bitter at all. In fact, I am sort of laughing at how sensative you are taking all this. Yea, I think the deal is "off". At the same time, from the start, I have said that while that is my perception, I was asking for opinions because perception is relative. If you go back, I said from the start that I was posing the question, and if others disagreed, I would apologize to the owners. I said then it was my perception, but again, was open to my opinion being in the minority, and was prepared for such. Westbrook is coming back this week. In a PPC league he is an elite player. He very easily can score just as many, if not more, points than AJ on any given week. Hes not some bum that isnt coming back this season and is garbage, he was a game time decision this week and ended up sitting out but will be back. If you dont put a lot of value on Westbrook thats your problem because a lot of people know how valuable he is and what he is capable of doing in the second half of the season. I know well Westbrook, and the value in a PPC league. I have always felt Westbrook was a top 5 FF player in a PPC. But this is not the Westbrook of old. Even prior to his missing games, he was not his usual self. Then factor in their rookie has looked pretty solid in West's absence, and even the coaches have said McCoy will continue to play a big role once Westbrook returns. You try to make it out like I am clueless as to who Westbrook is, but you are wrong. I know well who he is, but his value this year is simply not what it once was. He only has one game this year, against Oakland, where he put up big FF points, and that even includes his game prior to injury. Sorry, but you try to talk about his past and relate it to the present. By that logic, if Larry Johnson was part of the deal, you would likely talk about his elite FF value too. Breaston is the number two WR in Arizona now AND he returns punts. Boldins relationship with ARI is falling apart and without question Breaston is the one who is going to benefit from it the most. Look what he has done over the course of his career when Fitz or Boldin are out. Boldin had just over 20 points this week. Do you think Boldins status wasnt discussed when negotiating the trade? Breaston is going to be a solid number 2 WR in FF and right on the cusp of being a number one. Without Boldin in Fit will see more double coverage, especially after what he did to the Bears, and Breaston is going to get a ton of targets. I believe I called Breaston a solid starting WR. I never made him out to be less or more. He isn't going to face Chicago every week, and despite how you try to spin it, Boldin will return too. Look, Breaston is a solid starter. Never argued otherwise. Bush returns kicks, gets some carries and now is starting to play WR. He had 7 catches this week. He is a good fantasy player and can get points lots of different ways. Oh, BTW he outscored Slaton this week, who got like 6 carries. Also, this wasnt a surprise to me. I much rather would have Reggie Bush but then the other guy wouldnt have accepted the trade, he initially wanted Ricky Williams instead which I turned down. Um, Bush is might get you around 10-12 ppg. Average player, little more. Manningham has had a very good year so far as well. He has 112 fantasy points which you dismissed pretty easily. Ill admit, Im not that high on him but I know he will get some targets every week and so far this year he has been putting up very good fantasy numbers. He was basically thrown in because I wouldnt give up Ricky Williams and because of that Beanie Wells was thrown in to keep rosters even. I love how you are quick to note how many FF points he has, yet gloss over the mediocrity of the others FF points. You say you are not high on him, but he is probably the best player among the group you traded. AJ doesnt need an explanation, thats why I was willing to give up what I did for him. Slaton. This guy was being shopped to everyone in the league because of him getting benched. I basically needed him as a body if I lost Bush because I would have no running backs left. I never looked at Slaton as a big piece of what I was getting. I dont put much value on him and neither did the guy trading him. He was on the trading block and was being shopped around so if you think he is that good you should have made a play for him (Ill trade him very easily) Both of us wanted Bush over him and I had to give him up to make him agree. You wanted Bush over Slaton? Slaton has 131 FF points, and several 20+ weeks, compared to Bush who has 87 points, a week high of 16, and 2nd high of 12. Who are you trying to spin this too. Slaton is a considerably superior FF player than Bush, and w/ Houston losing their TE, his value likely just went up. Beanie Wells was thrown in as I said to balance rosters. The guy has done nothing, is on a team that doesnt run much and isnt even the starting running back. He is basically worthless in our league. For you to try and say he added any value to the trade proves that either you have an agenda or you dont know the values of players in FF. As far as his upside. Im not holding my breath on him turning into Michael Turner in the next few weeks. Im not starting an NFL franchise here hoping he may develop in the offseason, Im in a FF league where the playoffs start in a few weeks. You want him too? Make me an offer because you obviously put more value on him than well...anybody No, I don't think he is all that. Unfortunately for him, he doesn't get to play Chicago every week either. Berrian is a decent FF WR but his value goes down in PPC leagues. Hes without question the least valuable WR involved in the trade and for you to compare him to Breaston is hilarious. Breaston and Manningham have both scored more than Berrian and are going to continue to. Berrian will get you decent points one week and zero points the next. Hes a risky play every week and I would much rather have either of the other 2 I gave up. I will have to play him because of all I gave up some weeks but it hurts my team. Yes, Berrian's value in a PPC is less, yet he is still a starting WR. I put my spin, and you put your spin. At the end of the day, you gave up a group of starters, I agree, but received in return a stud in AJ, and despite how you talk about it, a 2nd tier stud in Slaton. You dismiss his value, but his points speak loud and clear, IMHO. Again this is a PPC league with return yards where there are THREE flex players so all or most of these guys will be playing for both teams most weeks. Take AJ and Westbrook out of the equation. Which team do you think will get more production of the other players involved in the trade? Im sure most people will think the other guy will, especially considering I wont be using one of the guys I got (Wells) ever. Is Andre Johnson so much better than Brian Westbrook that its not worth the extra production you will get from the other three players? Is it not possible Westbrook can come back this week and outscore AJ alone? Im not even going to get into the rosters of both teams because any of the league members can see them but that also has to be taken into account. Theres a reason why he could afford to give up AJ and theres reasons why he needed to add some better depth to his team. This isnt a black and white trade. It took a while to agree on it because we placed different values on different players. One, yes, AJ is worth that much more than Westbrook. Two, you continue to dismiss Slaton, who has more FF points than anyone you gave up in this deal. Not a single player you gave up has as many points as the 2nd best player you received. Also, yes, this trade was done with my friend which wasnt a secret. It is impossible to negotiate trades through Yahoo because all you get offered is three garbage players for a stud and none of the offers are legit. You need to talk to people, look at both rosters and figure out a way to make it work for both teams which is exactly what we did. He will have three wins after this week and is only two games out of playoffs. He also put up almost 200 points this week and got more from what I gave him than I got in return and that is without Westbrook. This was why I posted about the trade of mine that was vetoed last season because it was so lopsided with me getting ripped off and in the end I would have ended up getting the deal of the season and made a great trade because of what I projected TO and Royal to do last year came to fruition but it got vetoed by people like you who cant look past anything and wont let anyone roll the dice if you dont agree on the value of the players. Question. This deal aside, should any trade go through? Should two owners be allowed to make a deal w/o anyone else having a vote. Nice thought, but in reality, BS trades are made all the time. You argue yours was not a brother in law deal. Fine. You argue w/ enough passion that I tend to believe you. I am not going to knock an owner from looking the better in a deal. I myself am not going to make a deal where I don't at least feel I got the better of it. I felt this deal was considerably more lopsided. Yes, I also thought it questionable the deal was done between friends, one of which had 2 wins. It seemed very fishy, thus why I threw it out there. Now, I tend to think you simply made the better deal, but that isn't to say it was a brother in law deal. Look, I am sorry if you were insulted. When a trade is made, it is going to be looked at. When a player like AJ is moved in that deal, it is going to be looked at that much more closely. I put it out there, asking for comments and opinions. I still think you hosed your buddy, but after discussion, don't believe it was a "brother in law" trade, if you understand the difference I mean.
-
Just thinking out loud here, but Harris missed two games this year. He missed one game when the staff benched him, and another yesterday after his bone headed move. The two games Harris missed happened to also be our two most humiliating losses of the season. Now, when I have watched, I have seen VERY little from Harris. At the same time, I do have to step back and ask. Is his presence more important to this defense than we want to admit?
-
If Lovie really believes this he should be fired.
nfoligno replied to butkusrules's topic in Bearstalk
I don't know. I think Shanny will very much still believe he is capable of doing both jobs, as many coaches believe. I don't see the situation happening where Angelo and Shanny shared personnel duties. Remember, Angelo refused to hire his friend Saban when Saban wanted "some" control w/ regard to the roster. That is Angelo's domain, and he is not going to give it up. -
Sorry, but I do not see Kreutz getting us that much. In the offseason, Kreutz will have one year left on his deal. We are not the only ones who can see how far he has fallen. And Kreutz final deal, I believe, is not cheap. So another team would be looking at a player who has been skiing down the backside of his career for a couple years, be in the final year of his contract, and be expensive. That is the sort of player who is usualy cut, not traded for a 3rd or 4th round pick.
-
If any of those guys want GM duties, I wouldn't hire them. Coaches can not double as GM's. It doesn't work. Holmgren knows that so he isn't going to ask for them and Shanny got in trouble in Denver when he took over as the Personell guy. They'll want say, but you need to have a GM. Regarding Holmgren, I personally am not that big of a fan. What did he do w/o Farve and Wolfe? W/o Farve, he ran an average team. W/o Wolfe, see prior comment. As for Shanny, you say he got into trouble when he took over as a personnel guy. One, when did that happen. Honestly do not know. But w/ that said, Denver seems like a team that consistently found solid young talent, so I am not sure (a) he did that poorly as a personnel guy or ( that he realizes he did poorly if that is the case, and would not demand such responsibility. I think Angelo's job is probably safer than Lovies and I've been a huge Angelo backer but this year has been a meltdown. Still, I liked the theory of what Jerry did and I put a lot more blame on Lovie for what has happened cause I think Lovie did a horrible job evaluating his talent on the field and Jerry listened to Lovie a bit too much. I think most often the GM is safer than the coach. I for a long time was all over Angelo, and while there are still units I think he simply has never treated as important enough (OL and S), I also think the problem has been more and issue of development and coaching, rather than talent. Chicken and egg argument, but I have come to believe that Angelo has found talent but Lovie and Co have simply been poor in developing that talent, and putting them in the best position to win. That said if your going to let Jerry bring in his guy at coach, it means your going to let him stay another few years cause you can't fire the coach and than fire the GM a year later (with a coach who he didn't pick running the helm...thats just bad business, imo). This goes back to something I have wondered. Is Angelo tied to Lovie? Does Phillips look at the situation and say, "Lovie is doing a poor job, but Lovie was Angelo's choice, and thus Angelo has to go down w/ Lovie." If that is the case, I think both are given another year, and if the team still looks poor, both will be gone. If they are not as tightly tied together, then I think it more possible than some believe that Lovie could be let go, and Angelo be giving one more opportunity to hire a new HC.
-
If Lovie really believes this he should be fired.
nfoligno replied to butkusrules's topic in Bearstalk
While everyone talks about money, I think the top hurdle to our getting Shanny, if we fired Lovie obviously, is Angelo. Shanny, I believe, was both GM and HC in Denver, and I think any new team he considers would have to offer him similar. I have a hard time seeing Shanny accepting a HC job w/o authority in personnel as well. Dallas is not going to give him the GM title. Even if they did, as they did w/ Parcells, it would be just this side of a joke, as Jerry numerous times forced Parcells to make personnel moves he wasn't on board with. You mention the SD job, but I believe they have AJ Smith, or whatever the GMs name is, so there again, unless the team dumped both HC and GM, I am not sure Shanny goes there.