nfoligno

Yea, I read that too on Afalava. My mistake to call him out, but I think the point is still valid. You can't bash the coaches too much for even that play. As mentioned, Afalava was moving up, but at the same time, Payne was supposed to be backing out to provide over the top support for Vasher. Thus, while there was no question the run was our expectation, we still had two players expected to defend the pass, but both failed.

Actually, we didn't stack 10 in the box. We did in fact have a safety, Afalava, but he bit on the playfake. Afalava was back outside the box, and would have been in a position to help Vasher, but he bit on the play action and Vasher slipped, thus a wide open 50 yard score. As for the fake punt, how is that on Lovie. That was 100% on Mannelly, who thought he saw something (wrong) and called an audible. There isn't a whole lot the coach can do on the sideline when a player audibles out of the play the coaching staff send in.

Sorry, I just disagree. Some picks, and/or near picks, are all on him. Others though I think the WR absolutely has to take a big share of the blame. Plenty often, the QB is throwing the ball on a timing route. The WR is not there yet, but he is throwing the ball based on where the WR should be. This is very common, and every team does this. When a receiver doesn't finish the route, they are not where they should be. Sometimes, the pass ends up going directly to a DB, and it looks like an awful pass, but that isn't always the case. If the WR runs the route, the DB is not in position to make a play, and the WR is. I have yet to see it, though I hope it is online, but Pix or someone said Marty Shot did a pick by pick review on NFL.com or NFL Network and showed how the receivers screwed the pooch. Honestly, I just don't get it. I guess its simply a tough loss to swallow, but it just seems like everyone wants to single out an individual to blame. Some want to say its all Cutler. Someone else saids Turner. Yet another says to just put all blame on Lovie. I saw an entire offense out of cink. Every aspect of that offense deserves blame, from Turner to Forte, who didn't look great either. There are individuals who share a greater burden of the blame, but no one holds it all.

Hey, Forte proved he can block last year. But I did see him make some bad decisions, as well as bad blocks. Not calling him out, but making the point just how widespread our problems were last night.

That's what I thought. And for all those who have been screaming that Wolfe needs to get more PT, this is why he has been on the bench. If you want to play, especially on 3rd downs, you have to be capable of blocking. Doing your bust impersonation of a hurdle ain't gonna get it done.

Like I said, just a messed up year. I mean, this is biblical messed up. Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes... The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria! And then, after all this, Crackerdog and I will agree. Oh God, take me now

Is the punt challenge on him though? On a play like that, would it not be logical that someone was telling him there were 12 on the field and to call a challenge? I doubt Lovie is counting players himself. It would simply seem like someone, likely a coach, told him to throw the red flag. Yea, he is the HC and responsible, but if that is part of the job. If your coaches tell you X, you likely have to believe them. Maybe Lovie is just an idiot. I have a feeling though that someone got their arce chewed behind closed doors, but we will likely never know.

All on Cutler. Come on man. What I saw, there was plenty to go around. When was the last time you saw a worse performance by an OL? WRs and TEs did a poor job. I'll even give the RBs a bit of grief as I saw some shoddy blitz pickups and blocks. And yes, w/o question Cutler is going to get plenty of blame. No one is saying Cutler didn't play poorly. The point, at least I have made, is that it was a bad effort all around. Just as a coach can't catch the ball, nor can the QB. As for the 3rd and short at the end, I am not sure I agree it was as simple as "they gambled it was a run." They had a safety outside the box, but that safety (I believe afalava) bit on playfake, thus putting Vasher on an island, and we saw the result of that. As for Vasher, IMHO if he gave a 20 yard cushion, he would have still been beaten.

This has been a wierd year. Angelo is my new BFF and I am actually defending Lovie. What next? I defend the business practices of Mike McCaskey?

Wow was that bad. Was there a snap Cutler wasn't having to run for his life? How many times did Forte have a hole to run through. The left side of our OL was "upgraded" but they were horrible. Pace looked slow and weak. On one play, it was to be a run between up the middle. Omiyale blocks down inside, while Pace is supposed to move/pull to the right and block the guy who was basically lined up in front of Omiyale. Pace is about 3 steps too slow, and (I think) Jolley simply has a clear path to hit Forte in the backfield. Another play, just to point out, Omiyale sort of tried to cheat a bit buy lunging at Jolley off the snap. It looked sad as Jolley simply side stepped him and headed for Cutler. Pace was so bad I almost wished St. Clair were back. Omiyale was so bad, I actually thought it a good thing when he went down, as I thought Beekman would step in. Williams on the other side struggled too. If Pace and Omiyale were playing better, Williams questionable play may stood out more, but as bad as the left side of our OL was, Williams play was sort of over-shadowed. Kreutz and Garza don't usually play that well, but again, w/ others looking so bad, they didn't stand out, either way. Besides the OL, do we have anyone that can pickup a blitz? I don't recall if it was Wolfe or Forte, but on that one play, the RB dove at the LBs feet as the LB simply jumped him like a hurdle and went after Cutler. Look, I am not excusing Cutler. Whether on the run or standing in the pocket, you just can't throw to a receiver drapped by 4 green jerseys. At the same time, I think it a mistake to only look at Cutler, or whoever else. This OL was supposed to be improved, but I honestly think they were worse than last year. Last year, our run blocking was below average, but pass protection was at least average. This year, after watching preseason, I sort of expected the opposite. I thought our run blocking would be good, but wondered if we would not have some trouble in pass protection. What I saw however was an OL that was flat out awful at both.

Did Clark quit on a route that was probably a TD? Yes. Did Clark possibly screw up and lead to an INT? Yes. Did Knox possibly screw up and lead to an INT? Yes. Did McKie (surprise) drop an easy dump off? Yes. Where are all the other screw ups that made the receivers so horrible? Clark had another play that ended up an incompletion, but was one of the ones that bounced off a GB defenders hands. It was yet another where he didn't break outside, but simply stopped and turned around, while the pass went to his left. Your right that it is possible Clark knows the plays and Cutler doesn't, but sure seemed like it was on Clark, and even the announcers were pointing out Clarks route. Olsen had one simply bounce off his hands. Pure drop. Bennett had one bounce off his hands in the 1st half (I think 1st quarter). Neither this one, nor the Olsen play, were the sort that it would have been a great play, but looked like an easy catch that was dropped. I will say this. In the 2nd half, I think our receivers got it together, especially Bennett.

Disagree. Look, I have never been a Lovie supporter, and most would call me a pure basher, but I can't bash him for last night. Sure, he made some questionable calls, but so does every HC. You talk about prep, but a big part of what a coach does is put players in position to make plays and win. Like Ozzie says, he can't go out and hit for the players. The OL was a sieve like I have never seen before. Especially the left side (Pace/Omiyale), they barely slowed down, much less stopped the other team. Receivers (TE and WR) cut off their routes and dropped balls left and right. Think about getting ready for a test. You can tudor a student day and night, and prepare the student as best you can, but at the end of the day, it is the student that has to take the exam. If that student chockes and forgets everything tought, you can't really blame the tudor. And how about what he did on defense. This was supposed to be an elite offense. Prior to that late 50 yard TD, our D flat out shut that offense down. They only TD came after an int return set up GB on the 1. Another FG came after that Mannally head scratcher. The DL that was absent last year harrassed Rodgers all day. We had two CBs that missed the last month of practice, and the 3rd just stinks, and yet their WRs did little damage. We lost one starting LB in the first series, and our pro bowl MLB in the 1st half, yet GB was not able to run the ball. I love to bash Lovie. Its a favorite past-time. Yet I can't really bash him for last night. At some point, players have to accountable. At some point, players have to execute.

I think Forte wasn't used as a receiver much due to having to stay back and block. They were not simply beating our OL, but killing our OL right off the snap. As for Olsen, he was actually targeted 6 times but only made one catch. You could tell GB game planned to take him away. And he also let one, or maybe it was two, bounce off his hands.

As bad as it was, IMHO, if we had Orton or Rex, it would have been even worse. Rex - Under that sort of pressure, does anyone believe we would have only given up 2 sacks? Rex would have likely been good for 6 sacks, a couple fumbles and a couple picks. Orton - One, I think he would have been sacked more. Two, even if he did throw it away and avoid sacks/picks, we might not have gotten 50 yards passing, and would not have been even in a position to win at the end.

I am usually the first to bash our coaches, especially Lovie, but I just can't do it here. On offense, I think you really have to look square at the players. Cutler is taking all the heat, and deserves plenty, but our WRs were also dropping balls left and right, and overall simply not playing well. If it was just Knox or Bennett, you might wright it off to inexperience, but Clark and Olsen looked like crap too. You might say that still falls on coaching, but you can only coach so much, particularly w/ veterans. At some point, the players need to go out and execute. They didn't. On defense, while there was a broken play here and there, particularly at the end, I think few expected our defense to hold GB as we did. We lost one starting LB in the 1st series, and our pro bowl MLB in the 1st half, and yet still held GB in check. I don't say this often, but I think our coaches deserve some props. Yea, there were some flat out bad decisions, but that can be said of EVERY coach for EVERY game. Overall though, I think our coaches did a good job of putting players in a position to win, but the players simply failed.

I have seen plenty of articles of posts ripping Cutler to shreds, and while I am NOT saying he didn't have a bad game, I also thought the receivers really made him look bad. Yea, there were numerous picks, and even more that could have been, but how often was it due to Cutler and how often due to the receiver. Some examples off the top of my head. Early on, there was a play which looked like an out route to Bennett, who rup upfield, began to cut, but then just stopped and turned around. I think that is called a button hook, right? Anyway, Cutler threw the ball as if Bennett would be running an out, and it basically went into (and out of) the hands of a DB as if that is who he was throwing too. But even the announcers talked about how that play looked like it was an out-route that Bennett simply stopped on. Clark - I think this one was a pick. Clark runs about 15 yards or so downfield, and just stops. The pass is well in front of him, and the safety steps in front for an easy pick. Announcers talked about how on a route like that, you are not supposed to simply turn around, but come back to the ball to position yourself. Clark simply stopping in place allowed the safety to get into position, but if he steps up after the turn, its a catch. Clark again - Red zone play. Clark runs into the endzone, turns and just stops. Pass is sent to his right, just out of his reach. IMHO, and the announcers again, it wasn't a bad pass, but Cutler simply again throwing an out pattern, while Clark is simply running into the back of the endzone and stopping. Knox - The was a really ugly pick, but IMHO, replays showed another story. Knox is running across the field, and about the time Cutler is letting it go, Knox suddently breaks back out toward the sideline. The ball goes to the middle of the field, where you see several green jerseys and no blue jersey in the picture. It was about as ugly as you get, and you wonder what Cutler was looking at. I mean, who was he throwing to? But then you see the replay, and you see that his pass was right where Knox was running to, but then Knox breaks off his route and goes the opposite direction. The above does not even factor all the drops we saw. I am not saying Cutler would have had a good game if not for the WRs. There were other plays I thought were just bad. Some of those quick WR passes were high, which lost the WR that split second needed to make the play work. Some passes too were simply just bad decisions. When you see one blue jersey and 4 green, even if you think you see a hole, it is not a good idea. The point here though is not to defend Cutler. I just have read quite a bit after the game, and most all of it has been flat out bashing Cutler, while not really pointing to the problems of our WRs. I saw that even Noots gave our WRs a B grade, based IMHO on final stats, but I think their stats don't tell the story. Not even close.

I have to ask. Who are our starting CBs? Is is official that Bowman is our starter opposite Tillman, or is Bowman the #3. Is Vasher still starting? I really don't know at this point. Still don't understand why we have not looked at Graham more. Honestly, he seemed to be our best CB in preseason (factoring Bowman and Tillman's injury) and I think by a long margin too. McBride and Vasher were between bad and awful. Not saying Graham was great, but better than the rest, and pretty good overall. Yet he never seemed to get much time at CB. Instead, the coaches kept playing him at nickel.

He wasn't a FB. He was just a big RB. He was the bulldozer in Texas' offense. I don't recall who their speed RB was that year. Rare for Texas, but they had a RBBC at the time, and he was part of that. It is possible he was listed at some point as a FB, but he never was. He would not have a clue about blocking. He was strictly a power runner.

What I think many forget is Melton was originally a RB for Texas. I think he played for two years as a RB before moving to defense. As a DE, he is very raw. he has athleticism, but as a DE, he is simply very raw and a long term project.

While I agree that, even w/ all new rules in place, injuries can still happen, I would argue the injuries would happen more often if the rules were not in place. It is a violent sport. No matter how many rules you put in place, that isn't going to change. At the same time, that doesn't mean you can reduce the number of injuries with such rules. 100% agree that the downside of so many of these rules is that you have ticky tack penalties that are called. I DE reaches out to get the QB, who then ducks, and the DE ends up touching the QBs helmet. By rule, if the QB's head is touched, it is a flag. The rule was put into place (and I realize you disagree w/ the rule itself) to proect the QB from DL double his size taking a roundhouse right at his head. But while that may have been the intention originally, it now is called a penalty if the DL grazes the QBs helmet w/ his pinky. I think you need to have more objectivity. I think more penalties should be like pass interference. Just because a DB touches a WR, that doesn't mean it is automatic PI. It is a judgement call for the ref. Refs need to have more freedome to make calls based on what they believe the intention was. Another example is when a DE hits the QB after the ball is released. Sometimes you have the situation where, after the QB throws the ball, the DL not only still hits the QB, but drops his full weight on him. It was for just this sort of play the penalty was created. The flip side is the other day when Alex Brown was basically in mid air when the QB made the throw. Brown came down on the QB, but it was obvious to all he tried to shift his weight and avoid really hitting the QB. Regardless of intent, Brown was penalized as if he sould pull a Superman and change direction once in the air. Disagree 100% that money is irrelevant. You use Brady's injury as an example, but how uncommon is that? How often do you see a QB of Brady's level go down, and then a no-name, no-experience QB like Cassel replace him so well? More often than not, when a franchise player of that level is lost to injury, the fortunes of the team tank w/ him. And I am not just talking about the potential couple game or even one season injury. What happens if Manning is nailed and his career is over. I get what you are saying, and to a large extent agree. My point is simply that it is about money more so than caring about the players. Final point. You talk about "destroying the game" and how fans will stop watching because the game is too "pussified" but the reality is, the game has never been more popular. Despite the rules, fans have flocked to the sport like never before.

Sorry, but it is a 16 game season, and one in which there are high hopes. Far too often players try to return too soon from injury, end up playing poorly, and making their prior injury worse. I want Tillman in there, but at the same time, if he isn't healthy, he may only make matters worse.

I've read the comments, and maybe I missed it, but I think the key point missed is money. The league, owners, etc make rules and talk about player safety, but come on. Its about the money. When you give a guy a $100m contract, and he goes down for the season, you don't simply suffer in the loss column. You suffer in the pocket book. Few want to think of it this way, but the NFL is a business. In any business, you protect your assets. In the old days, as so many want to talk about, it was not nearly the business it is today. Heck, in the really old days, professional football was a part time job, as players had to work other jobs to make ends meat. Now? Just think about it. Back in the day, our franchise began w/ a (I believe) $5,000 buy in. That is what it cost to begin a football team. Even as the decades passed, and it began to become more business like, it still didn't have the sort of money we see in it today w/ TV contracts and such. Owners want to protect their assets. I agree in general players are too often protected, especially the QBs. My point here is not to defend the rules, but to point out the real reason for them. It isn't about protecting the safety and health of the players. That is the PR reason given, but the truth is owners want to limit the risk to the assets.

No idea from my end, and as I don't think too many non-keeper league owners are reading this thread, you may need to ask elsewhere to get your answer.

Yea, this quote seems to be taken so out of context. If he wanted to take a swipe at the bears, he would talk about wanting to sign w/ a division rival so as to play us twice. No. His comment was a way of giving a compliment to the team that just cut him by saying that team would be in the SB. Sorry, but Davis showed pure class w/ that statement.

Why should we look sheepish. Just because we were upset we took that damn RB in the 2nd round instead of Brohm. What was the 2nd round RBs name again. Slips my mind.