nfoligno

To further complicate the question is the coaching factor. Toub is considered among the best special teams coaches in the league. For years we have seen considerable turnover, and yet the level of play has remained high. Over the years, we seen offseasons where our special teams aces departed, but another player always seemed capable of stepping in. I think Toub deservedly gets a lot of credit in this regard. So, w/ a coach like Toub, do you worry a tad less about losing good special teams players believing Toub is capable of making more? Maybe a reach, but look at the OL turnover in Pitt over the years. They had some of the best coaching along the OL (Denver would be similar). It seemed like player after player would leave Pitt (OL) and they would rarely appear to miss a step. Scouting is a big part, but so is coaching. I wonder if we have a similar situation in Chicago on special teams where we worry less about turnover due in great part to the belief that we have a coach and system in place that makes players a tad interchangable. Think about it. Just in the last year or two, we have seen some changing of the guards. Where AP was once an ace, Wolfe has surpassed. Where Ayenbedajo was once an ace, other LBs like Roach, McClover and Williams have taken over. Where Hester was all time, Daniell Manning stepped in. Will we next be saying, "where Rashied Davis was an ace, Iglesias (or pick your young WR) has now taken over.

I'll take Brandon Rideau, in the locker room, with metal spike cleats. The murder victim by the way was Rashied Davis.

Okay, so most have seen that we have re-signed McClover. Question is, what does this mean? Right now, Williams is dealing w/ a foot injury, and if McClover was simply added to compensate in the short term for an injured LB, than his addition means absolutely nothing, and he will be gone by September cut downs. If this was not the reason he was added though, the implications could be interesting. One, at the LB position, we kept 6 last year. Urlacher and Briggs are pure locks, and Pisa I think is a virtual lock as well. Williams would seem to be the next more secure. You then have Roach, Hunter and Freeman. If we keep McClover, I have a hard time seeing us keeping all three (Roach/Hunter/Freeman). Freeman would seem safe due to draft status, but has easily shown the least in camp. I am not sure I can recall mention of his even really being in on a play in camp that stood out. Roach is a player the staff really likes, was promoted over Hunter last year, and is a special teams ace. Then there is Hunter who many thought was on the way out, but IMHO seems to have worked himself back into the mix. There were times in the last game we went w/ 4 LBs, and it was Hunter who was our 4th LB (w/ Briggs, Urlacher & Pisa). I think Hunter is also viewed as the most capable backup MLB, thus adds versatility. So the question is, was McClover added to replace Roach, special teams ace for a special teams ace, or was he added to replace Hunter and give us two special teams aces. Obviously, if we "res shirt" Freeman, that would change everything, but w/o that..... Two, Does this have any implication for our WR debate? When we talk about what WRs to keep, there is no question special teams comes into play. If two WRs are equal, the one better on special teams has the advantage, as WR depth is expected to play teams. Question in my mind is this. Does the addition of McClover imply (a) the importance of special teams or ( compensation for the potential loss of a special teams player elsewhere? If you believe A, Davis would seem to have a huge edge, as the team by that argument places so much value on special teams. If you believe B, then the staff may be looking at Davis not being on the team, but adding McClover to replace his special teams play. Then again, maybe I am just bored at work and reading too much into a low tier roster move

Agreed. Like I said, it isn't that I necessarily disagree that Cutler is going to throw picks. It was w/ the reasoning and support Pompei used that I took exception too. Farve seems to always be used as the goto comparison for a gunslinger mentality QB, but there is a reason for that, and I agree it is fairly apt here. Cutler and Farve are different in many stylistic ways, but in the agressive/gun slinger mentaility, they are pretty similar. Cutler has an absolute cannon for an arm, and he knows it. He believes he can make any throw and do anything w/ the ball. That sort of mentaility is going to lead to some extra turnovers. At the same time, I am not sure that he is going to be some 20+ interception guy. Further, I think he is going to be throwing more TDs, and thus some extra picks are not going to be as relevant. Turnovers always hurt, but they hurt worse for teams that are not capable of making up for them. When you are a team lucky to score 10 or 14 points, a turnover can be decimating. When you are a team that has the potential to score any possession, turnovers are simply not as painful. They are simply something you live w/.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/mulligan/17...mully26.article Saw this on the Sun Times. Its an article about Davis. Now, Mulligan takes the position that Davis deserves more of an opportunity than he has been getting. At the same time, reading the article, it puts into question some things we have talked about. - Some other articles seem to put Davis closer to the lock position. This article very much puts that into question. This article says Iglesias and Knox are virtual locks based on (a) draft position for Iglesias and ( 40 time for Knox. He implies Davis' roster security is far more up in the air than some others have been saying. - Something I found a bit more telling though was the discussion of his reps. We have seen the games, and have seen how he doesn't get into the game until Hanie does. At the same time, we have seen Aromashodu (DA) and Rideau playing w/ Cutler. What was more interesting though was Mulligan implied that is how camp has been running as well, w/ Davis seeing the majority of his reps coming w/ Hanie rather than Cutler. That has to further beg the question as to how the staff views Davis. IMHO, it is between Rideau and Davis. I think Aromashodu has really stepped up and taken advantage of his opportunities. More and more, the staff seem to talk about him, and more important, he seems to be the first receiver Cutler always mentions, which the staff doubtfully hasn't noticed. Rideau seemed hot early on, but I really have not heard nearly as much about him. There is still time, but IMHO, the staff is trying to decide between Rideau and Davis. Davis may win out, due more to his special teams ability, but I simply believe it is between these two, rather than Davis v Knox or Davis v Aromashodu.

Pompei makes the argument that while Cutler has an incredible arm, he is also going to throw picks. In general, I agree w/ this. QBs w/ strong arms and aggressive instincts are simply put going to throw more picks. That is simply how it is. However, the idea is they will also throw more TDs, thus throwing (for example) one pick per game is not really that painful. What bothers me though is more in his reasoning than his argument in general. He makes the case that, to date, Cutler has played in 37 games and thrown a total of 37 interceptions. He then compares Cutler w/ Payton Manning and Tom Brady, and points out how Brady threw a pick every 42.4 throws and Manning every 36.1, compared to Cutler's average of 32.9. What bothers me about this though is he is looking at two of the most polished veteran QBs in the NFL, and comparing a QB who has starting only 2 full seasons (plus 5 games as a rookie) against them. I did a quick check, and in his first 37 games, Manning threw 47 interceptions and Brady threw 33. So is Cutler's 37 really so bad in comparison? Pompei seems to assume that a QB doesn't develop, and Cutler is doomed to always throw a lot of picks just because he threw interceptions in his first two years starting. Um, I think if Pompei were to do a little homework, he would see that most every QBs throws a lot of interceptions when starting out their career, but that does not necessarily mean they will throw a ton of picks for the rest of their careers.

Everyone seems to look at this as Davis vs. Knox, but I don't see it that way. Sorry, but I believe Knox is a virtual lock. As a draft pick, and one that showed promise already in two phases of the game, I just think Knox is safer than some are making out. IMHO, the question is whether Rideau and Aromashodu have impressed the staff as much as they have fans, and seem to have impressed Cutler. Remember last year? Nearly everyone on this board seemed to believe Rideau had earned a roster spot, and yet the staff didn't see it that way. In fact, most every year there are a couple players who become fan favorites, and then get cut. I would argue that if Davis makes the team, it will be at the expense of Rideau or Aromashodu, not Knox. Knox is a draft pick, and that alone gives him a very big edge at a roster spot. Then you add the potential he showed in OTAs, what he has been doing on special teams, and how the staff has talked about him, and I would simply argue Knox is far more locked in than some here are thinking. On the other hand, I think Rideau and/or Aromashodu are not nearly so secure. If Davis makes the roster, IMHO, it will come at the expense of one of these two. If I had to guess right now, I would say Rideau is the odd man out. He has been in our system the longest, but it just seems like Aromashodu has passed him.

How long does the draft take? What about a 6pm start time?

After the Cutler trade, for the Draft, I went to Michaels and bought a blue tee shirt and some press on/iron on lettering, and made myself a shirt. Said "Jerry Angelo is my BFF". $225 for an authentic Cutler jersey. $75 for a screenprint $110 for a premier style Home made Angelo is my BFF shirt. Priceless Seriously though. I think the expensive stuff is cool, but when one shirt is the same price as a full season of ballet practice for my daughter, or my son's karate, or ...... You get the point, I just can't pull the trigger.

Pix, Start by 8pm or over by 8pm. As that is Labor Day, and most likely have the day off work (unfortunately not all) I suspect a late evening (or whatever) draft time should be able to be worked out. So start by or over by? Wait a minute. Didn't you hand me my arce last year? I saw we start the draft around midnight. Anyone that can't make it can just set up their draft boards pre-draft and live w/ the consequences:)

Can't say I agree w/ the comment they were so active in the 1st two games. I would agree the DL looked better in this 2nd game, but they looked pretty bad IMHO in the 1st game. Buffalo's QBs seemed to have plenty of time to throw. As I said, this past week, they looked better, but I still wouldn't say they looked good. We still have a long way to go before I would agree our DL looks good, much less gets to a point where they are "just harrassing the QB"

Yea, I don't know why so many are talking about Knox to the PS. One. He had a pretty dang good set of OTAs. Two. If you listen to the staff, he not only seems to have a spot on the roster, but has a place in the offense. The staff talks about how the plans for him differ from Bennett. Bennett was made to learn all WR positions first. Lovie has said Knox will focus on not only one WR position, but may also be limited in the plays. Basically, the staff knows they have a speed demon who may take time to develop as a well rounded WR, but want to take advantage of his field stretching ability now. Three. Knox is often mention, and has shown positive things, in special teams. Especially w/ talk of reducing Hester role on special teams, combined w/ (a) DM's injury and ( DM potentially being a starter on defense, I think Knox is more and more going to be looked at as a return man. Knox may not be blowing it up in the games, but I really don't think there is a huge expectation for him to right away. If we tried to put him on the practice squad, there is little question in my mind he would be gone. Regarding Davis, I think this 3rd game could be pretty interesting. Usually your 3rd preseason game is when you want to really start to see the offense you intend to go w/. How soon and how often Davis gets on the field may give some insight as to the staff's thoughts w/ Davis. It could be argued up to now that Davis is considered a more known commodity, and the staff wanted to get more looks at Rideau and Aromashodu, but I would think the staff would want to see the players expected to make the roster more by the 3rd game. If we begin to see less of Rideau or Aromashodu, and more of Davis, that could really give us an idea what they intend to do at WR. I didn't mention our rookies, as IMHO, they are more locks to make the roster than any of the three mentioned above, but at the same time are stashed further down the depth chart as they are not expected to do as much as soon.

$225? They could mis-spell Cutler and I would still rather take the $60 version. For $225, that jersey better come w/ 2009 regular season game tickets.

I hate how often we're agreeing these days. I think getting Cutler has softened your hard ass up a bit and you're actually human now. Trust me. The more you and I agree, the more I have to question my position. I couldn't agree more, experience can either be good or bad. Our experiences with Davis are BAD. I don't give a shit if the guy has 50 years of NFL experience. And in this case, I think it may work against him that two very inexperienced guys (rookies) are holding their own in camp. I see Jerry as more likely to have a vested interest in them and since Cutler prefers them, Lovie will fold like a tent. The special teams needs can't be overlooked and Davis may still have a great showing in one of the remaining games, thereby earning a spot... But he hasn't done so yet. And anyone who thinks he has, including Larry Mayer, is high. Honestly, I don't think Larry Mayer, or most anyone, believes Davis has done anything to earn a spot. I think it is simply the believe that Lovie will not cut him. I might point to AP as another example. You would barely know he was in camp for the lack of talk. I am not sure I have read about his doing a positive thing in camp. In the preseason games, what has he done? 3.1 ypc against NY's 4th string is not very impressive. Also similar to Davis, AP was once our special teams stud, but last year stunk on teams and hasn't exactly been impressive this year so far either. But like Davis, there is a perception that they (a) add experience to a young position, ( add health as they have rarely been hurt while others at the position have and ( are Lovie's guys. Remember, "As long as I am w/ this team, Adrian has a place on it". While I am not sure I recall Lovie saying that same about Davis, i think there is the perception he has that same attitude w/ him.

Pix, Would it make a difference if he paid? Just thinking out loud, but if he wants to advertise, well, you usually have to pay to advertise. I am sure we can agree to post a small link to his little web site if he agrees to send each Bearstalk/talkBears poster $100.

Davis is our most experienced receiver, and I agree he is likely to make the roster, but I disagree that is the way it should be. Last year, we had experience in Booker, and I think most would agree experience didn't equal quality. If Davis earns a job, fine, but he should not simply get the job due to having more experience. And lets be honest. From all camp reports, our Arom and Rideau have done better than Davis in camp, and Iglesias/Knox are likely (and should) get the nod in their rookie years. Again, if Davis earns a job, fine. But I just disagree w/ the idea he is handed a roster spot simply due to having more experience.

Sorry, but no way. What play call in the world has a WR run 50 yards down field and hessitate? @#$% happens, but I think it pretty obvious Hester simply mis-judged the ball. Hey, that isn't the end of the world. He and Cutler have time to get their timing down. Something like that doesn't happen over night. But there is no way you can put that on Cutler. He threw a good back. Hester simply misjudged it, hesitated a bit, and wasn't able to make the play.

Um, Jason. I don't think anyone had posted on this thread in a couple days, and thus is was beginning to get burried with the rest of last weeks newpapers, until that is you posted that it should go away, which made it back to the top:)

To be fair, a lot of defenders bounce of Jacobs. Urlacher had the play where he litterly was knocked silly by Jacobs, but came back right after that and nailed him (along w/ Pisa) and on that play, you could see him holding Jacobs foot, even after Jacobs was down.

We have the QB. We have the RB. We have TWO TEs! I like what the WRs are doing tonight. OL has been okay. Massive hole on the TD run, and some other good plays, but so-so overall, though they are going against an elite DL.

I am not stating anything as fact, but really just giving my opinions. Thus I am not sure my cred applies. I get your joke, but hey, I like to argue jokes too. Seriously though. Is it your belief/position he was never offered a better deal than the one he ultimately accepted? I'll say this. Most often, the deal the DA offers after arraignment is not as good as one offered far sooner. It makes sense that the DA, months ago, would have offered a better deal in order to save the time and money. Once you get to this point, you are less likely to offer a very good deal as you have already gone through the time and money.

AGREED! While WR is not set, if I am looking at the list of concerns, WR is absolutely not at the top. OL - Not much to go off at this point, but our protection looked AWFUL. What really concerned me too was how bad starters looked against backups. Omiyale and Williams (among others) played well after Buffalo had benched their starters, and IMHO, our OL just sucked. Shaffer is supposed to be a great backup, but was awful at both LT and RT. DL - I have not given up, but that game looked no different than past seasons. Anderson was easily blocked as he took way wide angles. Worse, here is a guy we are expecting a lot from, and he played well after starters took a seat, yet could not even beat Buffalo's 2nd and 3rd string OL. Brown and Wale showed little burst. DTs were okay, but little more. W/ our secondary questions, we need our DL to really step up and pressure the QB. If they create pressure like they have the last two years, our defense may again suck. DB - So Vasher and Tillman are supposed to be our starters. Tillman is hurt and will continue to miss (Likely) the rest of preseason. Vasher has stunk up camp and looks like he has been demoted. Bowman was tearing it up, but as was the knock on him in the draft, he just can't stay healthy. Graham was good/decent for us last year, but the staff doesn't seem to have a clue where they want to play him. McBride seems like he is about to be cut one day and playing gret the next. Moore was a highly touted rookie, but to be honest, I have heard very little about him in camp. If we can create a solid pass rush, this group may still be okay, but if this group is combined w/ a weak pass rush.... Coaching - I put coaching next, even before concern of WR. I do not want to make too big of a deal about one preseason game, but the issue I have is so many "issues" were carry over from the last two years. Throughout camp we have read about how we have been practicing w/ our CBs pressing, and yet we get into a game and they are 10 yards off the LOS. Anyone notice what Urlacher was doing? Fake blitzing then trying to run back into position, which he failed to do, and easy slant passes were completed right in front of him. DEs were taking wide angles and easily blocked. No pass rush. These were "issues" that were blamed on Babich, but the idea was things would change under Lovie, and yet after one game, all I saw was more of the same. WR is far from set, and I am not saying it isn't a concern. At the same time, at best, it would rank 5th on my list of concerns.

Sorry, but what else is Burress' lawyer supposed to say. "Well, we were offered a sweet deal some time back, but said no, and how we are getting our arces spanked." The specifics of the deal are FAR from fact, but it seems to be pretty well believed that Burress had better offers on the table in the past. Those rumors "got legs" because the leak of the deal supposedly came from the DAs office and Burress' legal team did little to nothing to quash those rumors. If the DA came out and said Burress was never offered less than 2 years in jail, then I would have far more reason to believe it. But Burress' lawyer is simply not as credible IMHO.

Me too. Maybe it is relative as Harrison plays a position with so many "characters" and stayed out of real trouble, but in the last year or so, it really just seems like a lot of stuff kept hidden is coming out. I am not just talking about the gun/club issue, but how so many question his leadership and character in the clubhouse, which I never realized was even questionable.

One. It's the constitution. It is up to each state to write and enforce their laws. While you have federal laws, I don't think you are going to find many who want all laws to become federal. Two. I agree there is a problem w/ the judicial system. I think most would agree w/ that. I am not a fan of mandatory minimums either, but IMHO, they are there due to the judges. IMHO, that is where you find the inconsistency. It is my belief that our judges are the biggest failure of the system. The lawyers get the grief, but I think the judges are responsible. Laws are put in place to make sure judges don't allow "perps" to get a slap on the wrist because they may disagee w/ the laws the congress set.