85 Bears vs 07 Pats

[madlithuanian]

'Nuff said!

 

This game just goes to show that the 85 bears could have easily beat the Pats. The Giants Defense shut em down. Imagine what the Bears would do. People don't get how close they were to shutting out every team in the playoffs. Are you kidding me? Can some of you not comprehend that. These are the best teams of the year in the playoffs and they couldn't score 1 point against the Bears Def?? They couldn't get in position to kick one fuckin field goal?? That fluke fumble at the beginning of the SB is the only reason that game wasn't a shutout. They would have easily kept that game scoreless if not for already giving up those 3 points. New England only ran 21 plays in the first half(only 4 of which resulted in positive yardage), -19 total offensive yards, 2 pass completions, 1 first down, and 3 points. Meanwhile, Chicago gained 236 yards and scored 23 points themselves.

 

I'm sorry Hester 3:16, but for anyone to say the Bears would lose by 2-3 touchdowns is just crazy. I mean if you want to argue it would be a close game...fine you can try and make that point, but to say the bears D would get dominated is crazy. Maybe you need to go rewatch the games. Take a look at how Montana and the prolific San Fran offense did against the Bears.

[AZ54]

This is no longer an argument. The 85 Bears pass rush was twice what the 07 Giants had. Brady would have been dumping off to Welker all game long and Moss would have been running the same 5 yard in routes that he ran in the second half yesterday. The only difference was our tackling was a heck of a lot harder than what the Giants did yesterday. Moss would have been using his gator arms by the second quarter and possibly gone back to his Raiders route running days in the second half (i.e. jogging so as not be open).

 

As stated above when you look at this years Patriots team they didn't dominate in the playoffs the way the 85 Bears did. Discussion over.

 

Now we'll wait to see if there's evidence they cheated before the Superbowl against the Rams. What kind of a penalty do you give the team for that? Especially after they were already penalized for the same thing afterwhich they said those 6 games were the only time they'd made the illegal videos.

[DaBearSox]

I think it was plain and simple....NE's old ass defense played 19 games

[BearSox]

07 Pats can no longer be considered one of the greatest teams in History, IMO. Sure they went undefeated in the regular season, but that doesn't mean shit if you don't win it all.

[madlithuanian]

Exactly.

 

Everything before this game is just a warm up...

 

07 Pats can no longer be considered one of the greatest teams in History, IMO. Sure they went undefeated in the regular season, but that doesn't mean shit if you don't win it all.

[selection7]

Exactly.

 

Everything before this game is just a warm up...

It's all a statement of opinion, so nobody can be wrong or absolutley right, but my opinion is that the other games aren't meaningless. It does matter if you had a winning record, it does matter if you won your division, and it certainly does matter if you won your conference (which in the old days pre-merger would have meant winning your league). A person may think that the winner's attitude is to say that if you don't win the Super Bowl, none of the other games matter, but I'm not one of those people. In fact, any player who thinks the Super Bowl is all that matters can only be left thinking that all the other games are "warmups", and these guys get paid too much to be allowed to think like that. Fans can think whatever they want, of course.

[madlithuanian]

Isn't the objective to win the Super Bowl? Yeah, if you win your division, it good, because you are going to the playoffs which could get you in the SUper Bowl. Winning the conference is great because it gives you the opportunity to go to the Super Bowl. etc.

 

Some teams can have small goals. And that can help them during the season, and bad teams can take solace in achieving certain goals. But great teams want to win the Super Bowl and nothing else is important. I don't want the Bears to be mediocre, I want them to be great. I'm not happy with anything but a Super Bowl win. I can look back at this past season and say it was fun to watch Hester and great to sweep Green Bay...but this year SUCKED! The team and coaching was awful and disgraceful!

 

In football, every game is important...otherwise you won't have a record good enough to make it to the Super Bowl. Yes, they are important...but it pales by comparison to winning the Super Bowl.

 

It's all a statement of opinion, so nobody can be wrong or absolutley right, but my opinion is that the other games aren't meaningless. It does matter if you had a winning record, it does matter if you won your division, and it certainly does matter if you won your conference (which in the old days pre-merger would have meant winning your league). A person may think that the winner's attitude is to say that if you don't win the Super Bowl, none of the other games matter, but I'm not one of those people. In fact, any player who thinks the Super Bowl is all that matters can only be left thinking that all the other games are "warmups", and these guys get paid too much to be allowed to think like that. Fans can think whatever they want, of course.

[Connorbear]

Some things to note. NE has some age, and it seems like as the season wore on they got worse. The NE Defense looked completely winded after that first series vs the NYG.

 

Think about how beat up SD was (Rivers, Gates, and LT all injured), yet the Pats barely beat them. They also didn't dominate the Jags like expected. It was almost like they were playing teams at just the right time. With a healthly LT, Rivers, and Gates, SD probably wins that game.

 

Regardless, the 85 Bears can still say they are the best team of all time.

I don't think the 85 Bears ever say (in public) they were the best team of all time. I think that is more a product of the media and the fans.

 

Peace

[selection7]

Isn't the objective to win the Super Bowl?

It true a goal (not the) is to win the Super Bowl. If you don't have any other goals, you're selling yourself short. If it wasn't a goal for Green Bay to beat the Bears or win their division (if hypothetically, it didn't increase their chances of getting to the Super Bowl), their fans should be dissapointed in them.

 

But great teams want to win the Super Bowl and nothing else is important. I don't want the Bears to be mediocre, I want them to be great.

I would feel duped and possibly angry at the Bears if they placed no significant importance on NFL week to week games that I get so worked up about...that fans spend so much money to see, making them millionaires. I've considered your point of view and I see where you're coming from. But having no perspective doesn't make them any more of winners in life than it did for Tom Brady, who just lost the Super Bowl and (he says) was still able to get some solace out of an AFC championship trophy. In my mind, if a player has to tell himself the Super Bowl is the only thing that makes any difference, it's mental weakness...like it's a crutch to make sure that he's properly focused and driven to the end, even though it's not reality. Of course, if it's absolutley necessary for that player, so be it.

 

I remember back when the '07 Pats were going for 16-0 I would hear their players say the politically correct (so to speak) thing about how game 16 doesn't matter if they don't win the Super Bowl. And they were of course trying not to get too high about probably achieving something significant when they knew they still had another big goal on the horizon. ...as well as trying to keep the nerves down so they could play loose and not feel distracted. So it makes sense. But there was a part of me that really wanted one honest Pats player to come out and say it. "Hell YES! 16-0 matters to me. Let's get real here. Every damn year some team wins a Super Bowl...and no, we don't always remember who won years later. But a team only goes undefeated once every 40 years in the NFL. Are you kidding me?"

 

Anyway, like I said. You or any other fan can feel that way, it's fine, but I wouldn't be happy to know the average Bear feels that way. It's their job to care deeply about every game.

[selection7]

I was also thinking, at least I'm consistent, because I'm also one of those people that feels like if you don't want an NFL team to run the score up on you, stop them from getting into the end zone. I didn't typically mind Belichek running up the score, because the way I see it, the fans payed to see 4 quarters of football, not 2 or even 3 and a half. So for me, it really is about it being their job to care and their job to play 4 quarters of every game, etc.

 

I will say, though, that putting in the second string, for example is ok. They're NFL players too, and I'd expect they'd put out a full effort especially since any playing time for them is another chance to impress the coaches and get some stats. Oh, and my opinion on running up the score doesn't hold for any other type of football that's non-pro like high school or college and whatever.

[madlithuanian]

You're talking semantics. The goal is to win every game and blow your opponents out 90-0. And sweep the playoffs and Super Bowl. Obviously, that doesn't happen all that often as the Patriots proved. There are tiny goals that lead to the big, eventual goal. You must have a plan. But the bottom line is that it's SUper Bowl or bust. Whether you have a 3 year plan or 1 year plan.

 

I never said there are no smaller goals...I just said that compared to the goal of winning a super bowl, it's irrelevant. You cannot win the Super Bowl unless you win games.

 

I honestly can't see how you'd think someone saying I'm disappointed in not getting the Super Bowl is a mental weakness? If you don't shoot for the stars you won't reach the stars. Brady can hug his AFC trophy all he wants, I'd be pissed off. I sure hope the Bears aren't thrilled happy campers that they have the NFC trophy. Yeah, it's nice. But the goal wasn't achieved. It's like getting the box of Rice a Roni on the game show instead of winning the million dollars. Saying you're thrilled with a dinner side dish over potential retirement is just silly!

 

Mentionined the statements players give is completely irrelevant. They are coached to say the politically correct thing. Few speak their minds, and those few usually get bashed for it in the media. As a fan, it'd be great to hear what they thought, but it just won't happen unless you personally know a player.

 

Again, if a team doesn't care about every game, they won't have even a remote chance for the Super Bowl. That's simply step one of the larger goal of winning the Super Bowl.

 

It true a goal (not the) is to win the Super Bowl. If you don't have any other goals, you're selling yourself short. If it wasn't a goal for Green Bay to beat the Bears or win their division (if hypothetically, it didn't increase their chances of getting to the Super Bowl), their fans should be dissapointed in them.

I would feel duped and possibly angry at the Bears if they placed no significant importance on NFL week to week games that I get so worked up about...that fans spend so much money to see, making them millionaires. I've considered your point of view and I see where you're coming from. But having no perspective doesn't make them any more of winners in life than it did for Tom Brady, who just lost the Super Bowl and (he says) was still able to get some solace out of an AFC championship trophy. In my mind, if a player has to tell himself the Super Bowl is the only thing that makes any difference, it's mental weakness...like it's a crutch to make sure that he's properly focused and driven to the end, even though it's not reality. Of course, if it's absolutley necessary for that player, so be it.

 

I remember back when the '07 Pats were going for 16-0 I would hear their players say the politically correct (so to speak) thing about how game 16 doesn't matter if they don't win the Super Bowl. And they were of course trying not to get too high about probably achieving something significant when they knew they still had another big goal on the horizon. ...as well as trying to keep the nerves down so they could play loose and not feel distracted. So it makes sense. But there was a part of me that really wanted one honest Pats player to come out and say it. "Hell YES! 16-0 matters to me. Let's get real here. Every damn year some team wins a Super Bowl...and no, we don't always remember who won years later. But a team only goes undefeated once every 40 years in the NFL. Are you kidding me?"

 

Anyway, like I said. You or any other fan can feel that way, it's fine, but I wouldn't be happy to know the average Bear feels that way. It's their job to care deeply about every game.

[madlithuanian]

I am glad you're consistent! Otherwise arguing with you would be frustrating! But, I believe I, and many others, are also being consistent.

 

I don't like when teams run up scores in certain fashion...much like the Pats did. But, I also have no issue with them doing it. I agree, if you don't like it, stop them. I just think that typoe of activity (running up the score) makes it far easier for the other team to cheap shot someone. It creates a very hostile envirnment in an already violent game. I was honeswtly surprised no one tried to take out Brady this year because of that.

 

If I were a coach, I'd basically do what Ditka would do. Run the ball and put in the second team to give them reps. Your'e prepping your team for future games and getting reps in your rushing attack. If you keep scoring, so be it. But, that's me.

 

I was also thinking, at least I'm consistent, because I'm also one of those people that feels like if you don't want an NFL team to run the score up on you, stop them from getting into the end zone. I didn't typically mind Belichek running up the score, because the way I see it, the fans payed to see 4 quarters of football, not 2 or even 3 and a half. So for me, it really is about it being their job to care and their job to play 4 quarters of every game, etc.

 

I will say, though, that putting in the second string, for example is ok. They're NFL players too, and I'd expect they'd put out a full effort especially since any playing time for them is another chance to impress the coaches and get some stats. Oh, and my opinion on running up the score doesn't hold for any other type of football that's non-pro like high school or college and whatever.

[selection7]

Yeah, I also look at big-lead games as an opportunity for an team to get better. For example, they have the ball on the 5 yard line about to score but don't get to try to put it in for 7 because that would hurt someone's feelings? Nah, not to me. You can practice the red zone all day, but nothing can replace what you get out of a real game situation. I guess if the other team has clearly given up, then it's different and then it's on them that you didn't play 4 quarters.

 

To respond to one of your last posts, I never said it's not ok to be dissapointed that you didn't win the Super Bowl. The way I look at it, you're supposed to be happy with the goals you did achieve and unhappy with the ones you didn't.

 

I'm not convinced spirit of what we're saying is exactly the same either, though it's closer than I originally thought. It seems the best example I could come up with is still only hypothetical...suggesting for example that the Bears are 14-0 and playing the Packers, who are sub-mediocre, in back-to-back games going into the last 2 games of the season. The Bears, with a 1st round bye and division lead secured, have nothing to gain from beating the Pack and in fact, might regress a tiny bit by playing them sincerely since they could regress into bad habits (such as with technique and fundamentals) that only work against poor teams. Yet, I would still be disappointed in them if they didn't place great importance on sweeping the Packers that year. This all assumes that the potential for injury isn't a factor.

 

Also, for what it's worth, there's nothing mentally weak about telling yourself only the SB matters as long as you actually believe it. I don't, so it would be sort of like voluntarily brainwashing myself to think otherwise, which I would be too self-aware of to get any satisfaction out of it anyway. Though the truth is oftentimes I wish I had less of that quality, or at least that I could turn it off and on at will. Actually, maybe not being able to turn it "off" is the real mental weakness. I've never thought of it that way before. Oh, that's too deep

[madlithuanian]

I think we are cloer to agreement than our verbiage seems to indicate!

 

 

...and hell yeah, I'd want to shoot for 16-0 if we could! I believe they tried in 85 and just fell a shade short!

 

Yeah, I also look at big-lead games as an opportunity for an team to get better. For example, they have the ball on the 5 yard line about to score but don't get to try to put it in for 7 because that would hurt someone's feelings? Nah, not to me. You can practice the red zone all day, but nothing can replace what you get out of a real game situation. I guess if the other team has clearly given up, then it's different and then it's on them that you didn't play 4 quarters.

 

To respond to one of your last posts, I never said it's not ok to be dissapointed that you didn't win the Super Bowl. The way I look at it, you're supposed to be happy with the goals you did achieve and unhappy with the ones you didn't.

 

I'm not convinced spirit of what we're saying is exactly the same either, though it's closer than I originally thought. It seems the best example I could come up with is still only hypothetical...suggesting for example that the Bears are 14-0 and playing the Packers, who are sub-mediocre, in back-to-back games going into the last 2 games of the season. The Bears, with a 1st round bye and division lead secured, have nothing to gain from beating the Pack and in fact, might regress a tiny bit by playing them sincerely since they could regress into bad habits (such as with technique and fundamentals) that only work against poor teams. Yet, I would still be disappointed in them if they didn't place great importance on sweeping the Packers that year. This all assumes that the potential for injury isn't a factor.

 

Also, for what it's worth, there's nothing mentally weak about telling yourself only the SB matters as long as you actually believe it. I don't, so it would be sort of like voluntarily brainwashing myself to think otherwise, which I would be too self-aware of to get any satisfaction out of it anyway. Though the truth is oftentimes I wish I had less of that quality, or at least that I could turn it off and on at will. Actually, maybe not being able to turn it "off" is the real mental weakness. I've never thought of it that way before. Oh, that's too deep