A missing element overlooked

[DrunkBomber]

We have three decent DEs who have all shown flashes but this team hasnt had a pass rusher that can take over a game in a long time. The closest thing I can think of isnt even a DE, its Colvin. If this team could get a guy who can actually make a team gameplan for him our defense would dominate. Our d line has been ok the past few years and this year looks good against the run but if we could get pressure on the qb I think our defense could generate ridiculous amounts of turnovers. Look what happened yesterday when we needed a stop, Griese was sitting in the pocket all day. I think a safety and defensive end should be needs for this off season along with OL, QB and possibly WR but I think DE might need to be made a bigger priority.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Good point! That's right. We aren't getting pressure! I look at teams like Dallas and they had 5 sacks the other day, without even looking that's probably more than we've had all season! We are doing good against the run but we need to actually sack the quarterback a few times to put their offense into 3rd and long situations intsead of 3rd and 3 or 5. Mark Anderson and Tommie Harris are supposed to be the main guys in the sack category but so far they've done nothing. I said it before, IMO Tommie Harris is done. Either rest him until he's 100% healthy or just give into the fact that he's going to be injury prone throughout the rest of his career! Dusty Dvorecek and Marcus Harrison have all played really well to start this season.

[azbearsfan]

We have three decent DEs who have all shown flashes but this team hasnt had a pass rusher that can take over a game in a long time. The closest thing I can think of isnt even a DE, its Colvin. If this team could get a guy who can actually make a team gameplan for him our defense would dominate. Our d line has been ok the past few years and this year looks good against the run but if we could get pressure on the qb I think our defense could generate ridiculous amounts of turnovers. Look what happened yesterday when we needed a stop, Griese was sitting in the pocket all day. I think a safety and defensive end should be needs for this off season along with OL, QB and possibly WR but I think DE might need to be made a bigger priority.

 

 

Well Alex Brown always has 2 or 3 stellar multisack games a year to make it look like he is very consistant. He has been doing that for years. Wale a little better but we have nobody that teams need to double on the edge.

 

I agree we dont have that stellar DE type. That would make this team a hell of a lot better.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

I do agree, we need a Julius Peppers, Mario Williams, Dwight Freeney, type of DE. Someone you have to game plan around.

 

Also:

The guys we have are decent, but for some reason I think they are held back by our scheme. Brian Griese knew this and he also knew our Cover 2 would give the middle of the field. He took advantage of this with 3 step drops, stepping up in the pocket and hitting the inside routes. 67 pass attempt wore out our DL as they could not get to him in time. I think if our DE could do more the try to run an outside contain, they can suprise the opposing offenses.

[BearSox]

We have three decent DEs who have all shown flashes but this team hasnt had a pass rusher that can take over a game in a long time. The closest thing I can think of isnt even a DE, its Colvin. If this team could get a guy who can actually make a team gameplan for him our defense would dominate. Our d line has been ok the past few years and this year looks good against the run but if we could get pressure on the qb I think our defense could generate ridiculous amounts of turnovers. Look what happened yesterday when we needed a stop, Griese was sitting in the pocket all day. I think a safety and defensive end should be needs for this off season along with OL, QB and possibly WR but I think DE might need to be made a bigger priority.

What? Tommie Harris has shown that in the past, Anderson was as dominating as they come his rookie year, and last season Ogunleye was one of the best DE's in the league. Granted so far it hasn't been like this year, but we have had some players with some dominating seasons as pass rushers recently. The problem is finding some consistency with these guys.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Yet when I bring up the possibility of drafting one, I get s***.

[AZ54]

The problem wasn't our DEs it was the lack of push up the middle. Tommie Harris has done very little up the middle in three games. Greise was always able to step up as the DEs came around the corner.

[DrunkBomber]

What? Tommie Harris has shown that in the past, Anderson was as dominating as they come his rookie year, and last season Ogunleye was one of the best DE's in the league. Granted so far it hasn't been like this year, but we have had some players with some dominating seasons as pass rushers recently. The problem is finding some consistency with these guys.

Like I said, they show flashes, but they havent been consistent. Harris hasnt been close to a dominant pass rusher since the first half of 06. Ogun is good but he doesnt change games and Anderson had a fluke season. Hes good, but hes not 12 sacks a year good.

[DrunkBomber]

Yet when I bring up the possibility of drafting one, I get s***.

Not in the first round, that should be OL or QB. I think safety might need to be addressed before DE too. I dont have a solution, those types of guys are hard to come by.

[BearSox]

Like I said, they show flashes, but they havent been consistent. Harris hasnt been close to a dominant pass rusher since the first half of 06. Ogun is good but he doesnt change games and Anderson had a fluke season. Hes good, but hes not 12 sacks a year good.

I'm not disagreeing with you about that. I disagreed about your statement about us not having a game changer pass rusher for a full season since Colvin.

[jason]

I think the talent is there. I think the scheme is horrible.

 

If the opponents know that the DEs are just going to rush around edge, then they can be singled out one on one and pushed around edge in a super wide angle. Meanwhile, the inside DTs get help from a RB, and the QB steps up to make the pass.

 

I don't really think a DT or DE is needed in the draft. The only real Defensive switch needed with the front seven is a different coach.

[nfoligno]

Couldn't disagree more.

 

Sorry, but adding more defensive talent would be a waste. You talk Colvin, and I realize he is just an example, but what would we do w/ Colvin in our system? Doubt much.

 

We have the talent on defense, but not the scheme. Adding more talent to this defense is a waste. We have a DT who is considered an elite pass rusher, but in our scheme? We have two of the best LBs in the game, but does anyone believe they dominate as much as they could? We have a two DEs who have posted double digit sack numbers, and a 3rd that was a pro bowl alternate. We have two near pro bowl CBs.

 

Talent on the defense is not an issue. I swear that if we had Peppers or Jason Taylor or Strahan (in his prime), they would not be close to the level expected. As Jason said, and I have said before, in our scheme, DEs are simply too easy to block, and thus DTs are easier to block as DEs don't require extra protection.

 

We have three decent DEs who have all shown flashes but this team hasnt had a pass rusher that can take over a game in a long time. The closest thing I can think of isnt even a DE, its Colvin. If this team could get a guy who can actually make a team gameplan for him our defense would dominate. Our d line has been ok the past few years and this year looks good against the run but if we could get pressure on the qb I think our defense could generate ridiculous amounts of turnovers. Look what happened yesterday when we needed a stop, Griese was sitting in the pocket all day. I think a safety and defensive end should be needs for this off season along with OL, QB and possibly WR but I think DE might need to be made a bigger priority.

[DrunkBomber]

Couldn't disagree more.

 

Sorry, but adding more defensive talent would be a waste. You talk Colvin, and I realize he is just an example, but what would we do w/ Colvin in our system? Doubt much.

 

We have the talent on defense, but not the scheme. Adding more talent to this defense is a waste. We have a DT who is considered an elite pass rusher, but in our scheme? We have two of the best LBs in the game, but does anyone believe they dominate as much as they could? We have a two DEs who have posted double digit sack numbers, and a 3rd that was a pro bowl alternate. We have two near pro bowl CBs.

 

Talent on the defense is not an issue. I swear that if we had Peppers or Jason Taylor or Strahan (in his prime), they would not be close to the level expected. As Jason said, and I have said before, in our scheme, DEs are simply too easy to block, and thus DTs are easier to block as DEs don't require extra protection.

I know you relatively addressed it, but ya, Colvin wasnt even really an example. He was more of a timeframe of the last time we had a consistent pass rusher. Im not saying we need a guy like Colvin specifically. We need a defensive end not an OLB.

[DrunkBomber]

Couldn't disagree more.

 

Sorry, but adding more defensive talent would be a waste. You talk Colvin, and I realize he is just an example, but what would we do w/ Colvin in our system? Doubt much.

 

We have the talent on defense, but not the scheme. Adding more talent to this defense is a waste. We have a DT who is considered an elite pass rusher, but in our scheme? We have two of the best LBs in the game, but does anyone believe they dominate as much as they could? We have a two DEs who have posted double digit sack numbers, and a 3rd that was a pro bowl alternate. We have two near pro bowl CBs.

 

Talent on the defense is not an issue. I swear that if we had Peppers or Jason Taylor or Strahan (in his prime), they would not be close to the level expected. As Jason said, and I have said before, in our scheme, DEs are simply too easy to block, and thus DTs are easier to block as DEs don't require extra protection.

Also, Im not disagreeing about our scheme, I hate it just as much as anyone. I just know we need a pass rush from the front four and were not getting it. Scheme or not.

[Zod]

I'm actually not worried about the pass rush. If a team has to pass 67 times to beat the Bears I'm okay with that because that means they are stopping the run. I think the pass rush will improve as the season progresses. It's only the third game and the Bears have been in every game. 3-0 would have been nice but fortunately the season is 16 games long.

 

I'm not writing off this team.

[nfoligno]

Also, Im not disagreeing about our scheme, I hate it just as much as anyone. I just know we need a pass rush from the front four and were not getting it. Scheme or not.

 

I know you relatively addressed it, but ya, Colvin wasnt even really an example. He was more of a timeframe of the last time we had a consistent pass rusher. Im not saying we need a guy like Colvin specifically. We need a defensive end not an OLB.

 

I combined your two posts here. I fully understand what you are saying, but my point is, I do not believe personnel is the issue, at least not on defense. IMHO, if we drafted Dwight Freeney, he would be an inconsistent pass rusher for us. I watch Freeney (and other great DEs) play, and they simply play different as much as better.

 

If Freeney were in our system, and told to simply attack the edge every time, his speed would allow him to get pressure here and there, but he would be no where near the force he is for Indy. Watch Freeney sometime. Yes, he has incredible burst and quickness, and will use to that beat the OT on the outside, but that is not the only thing he does. He will also use that quickness to get his OT off-balance, and then use a power move to knock the OT backward. He might face an OT 100 lbs heavier, but can over-power him due to getting him off-balance. Also, because the OT will often cheat to the outside against Freeney, Freeney will then use a spin or swim move to get inside position.

 

Now watch our DEs. All they do is attack the outside. You just do not see our DEs work the inside.

 

Now the question may be, is that our DEs or coaching? None of us know the answer to that for a fact, but I simply believe that is coaching. I base this off a couple things. (a) Wale, when in Miami, did use multiple moves. He would work the inside as well as the outside. But since joining the bears, he is an outside rusher. ( The staff has often talked about our scheme, and how we use our DEs to pressure the outside, w/ the idea that our DTs will penetrate and attack the inside. Nice in theory, but I think we have seen the results are very inconsistent.

 

That is why I think it would be a waste to draft another DL player. I think we have the talent to dominate in the trenches, but coaches and scheme hold them back.

[DaBearSox]

Also, Im not disagreeing about our scheme, I hate it just as much as anyone. I just know we need a pass rush from the front four and were not getting it. Scheme or not.

 

Have to create more mismatches on the line...the game against Indy it looked like we were doing that...make the opponents OLine question and committ to blocking someone...the D's plan has been bad compared to how they planned for the first game.