Antrell Rolle

[clnr]

McBride isn't on the roster anymore! He was waived/IR:ed and has signed with the Cards. So that just adds to the fact that CB is a need.

 

[defiantgiant]

McBride isn't on the roster anymore! He was waived/IR:ed and has signed with the Cards. So that just adds to the fact that CB is a need.

Damn, how did I miss that? Well, it's not like he was a potential starter or anything. He was never any higher than a dime back when everybody was healthy. But yeah, the Bears could use a quality depth player at corner.

[nfoligno]

You mention Rolle, but I have seen some who have watched him question whether he is even that good. I mentioned in a prior post, I really have not seen him much. I thought the Cards were pretty disappointed in him overall. Not to say he sucks, but that he never lived up to expectations. But I don't know. If he isn't that good though, I want to see what sort of money it would take to get him.

 

I agree 100% FS is a greater need. As you said, while I argue Robinson would be an upgrade at CB (starter and depth) we at least have two potential decent to solid starters in place. We have nothing at FS. At the same time, that doesn't mean you overpay to get the best available if the best available isn't all that good.

 

My opinion here more is about Rolle. If for example, Atowge were an UFA, I would be singing a different tune. But I am not sold on Rolle, and some posters on this board who have watched far more of him than I have a pretty weak opinion of him. To sign him, you are talking about a long term deal for pretty decent money. Is he not only an immediate upgrade, but a long term solution? I don't know. Robinson is a player though who I believe would be an immediate upgrade and a long term fixture.

 

That is why I pull toward Robinson over Rolle. Not because I believe CB a greater need than FS, but because I believe Robinson a much stronger player than Rolle.

 

I agree, we've got paper-thin depth behind the starters, and that's a problem. But that's a different problem than needing a starter or even needing a nickel. We need a guy who, if all goes well, won't see the field except in dime packages. That's not a lot of snaps. Meanwhile, at free safety, we need a starter to play every defensive snap. That's got to take priority, as nice as it would be to get a third starting-caliber corner like Leigh Bodden or Dunta Robinson.

 

If it were me and I had to choose between getting a new starting corner or a new starting free safety, here's what I'd do: sign Rolle, draft a developmental corner like Walter Thurmond, then sign a lower-tier FA corner like Rod Hood as a backup. Then maybe we cut McBride and Turenne. That way, we upgrade a deficient starting position, have a little cheap insurance against Tillman or Bowman getting hurt, and hopefully have a developmental guy waiting in the wings to take over for Tillman eventually. That's much better, in my mind, than adding a starting-caliber corner and neglecting the huge hole at safety.

 

I mean, it's not going to matter how well our corners play, as long as teams can keep sending a TE or a slot receiver down the seam a million times a game. If the pass defense is going to improve, we need a free safety who can take those guys away, and we don't have one on the roster. It's been a major weakness for a while, other teams know it, and they exploit it. Brian Griese, of all people, absolutely torched our secondary by just hitting that seam over and over again. Who were our safeties for that game? Mike Brown and Kevin Payne. Who were our starters at corner? Tillman and Graham. From watching that game, I think it's pretty clear which position was responsible for Brian freaking Griese throwing for over 400 yards.

 

[nfoligno]

Thats what I thought, but ESPN has him listed on our roster, so I thought I was mistaken. After reading your post, I checked w/ the Bears site and you are right. As I recall, in camp, I was ticked off because we gave CB reps to him over Graham, and railed about it after Mcbride was released.

 

McBride isn't on the roster anymore! He was waived/IR:ed and has signed with the Cards. So that just adds to the fact that CB is a need.

 

[Mongo3451]

You mention Rolle, but I have seen some who have watched him question whether he is even that good. I mentioned in a prior post, I really have not seen him much. I thought the Cards were pretty disappointed in him overall. Not to say he sucks, but that he never lived up to expectations. But I don't know. If he isn't that good though, I want to see what sort of money it would take to get him.

 

I agree 100% FS is a greater need. As you said, while I argue Robinson would be an upgrade at CB (starter and depth) we at least have two potential decent to solid starters in place. We have nothing at FS. At the same time, that doesn't mean you overpay to get the best available if the best available isn't all that good.

 

My opinion here more is about Rolle. If for example, Atowge were an UFA, I would be singing a different tune. But I am not sold on Rolle, and some posters on this board who have watched far more of him than I have a pretty weak opinion of him. To sign him, you are talking about a long term deal for pretty decent money. Is he not only an immediate upgrade, but a long term solution? I don't know. Robinson is a player though who I believe would be an immediate upgrade and a long term fixture.

 

That is why I pull toward Robinson over Rolle. Not because I believe CB a greater need than FS, but because I believe Robinson a much stronger player than Rolle.

I think we'll have a better likelyhood of getting Rolle. Our staff simply thinks pass rush is the key to the kingdom. So, if any premium money is spent, it's likely to be on a DE. FS being an ongoing need is also cheaper. I can see a CB drafted with our 1st pick though. Not how I'd do it, but I'm not JA.

[nfoligno]

But,

 

- No argument DE is tops, and there are a couple to look at, but simply put, we may be on the outside looking in. The money talked about for robinson, or most any other, likely is not remotely close to what someone like Peppers will likely command. I would love to be wrong, but I see no way we get Peppers. I don't think he would prefer to come here, if he had a choice, and I don't think we will offer him a deal that blows away everyone else, which is what it might take. Kampman? Honestly, I just don't know what his market will be coming off the injury.

 

- I think we all agree FS is a huge need. But if we are talking "what would Jerry do" what has he ever done to make you think he would go after a big ticket FS, or even a FS like Rolle? Jerry and Lovie seem to like the idea of getting a SS and moving him to FS. DM is a rare exception, but during Angelo's time here, when has he ever gone after that centerfielder?

 

- If its Peppers or Robinson, yes, it would be Peppers. Kampman or Robinson, again, likely the pass rusher. But what if we can't get either? Robinson or Rolle? I don't know about that. I am not sold on Rolle, and question whether he is even the sort of DB Jerry covets.

 

I think we'll have a better likelyhood of getting Rolle. Our staff simply thinks pass rush is the key to the kingdom. So, if any premium money is spent, it's likely to be on a DE. FS being an ongoing need is also cheaper. I can see a CB drafted with our 1st pick though. Not how I'd do it, but I'm not JA.

 

[defiantgiant]

That is why I pull toward Robinson over Rolle. Not because I believe CB a greater need than FS, but because I believe Robinson a much stronger player than Rolle.

I'd probably go along with you on that, I just think you have to balance BPA with need. Rolle was a disappointment as a corner, which is where he originally played, but he's been OK as a FS from what I've heard. Not as good as Robinson, maybe. But we don't need a corner half as much as a safety, and the difference between the two players isn't big enough to make me think we should go for the lesser need.

 

Like you said about Atogwe: if Asomugha were a free agent, I'd be singing a different tune. But I think it'd take a pretty awesome CB to be a better pickup for the Bears than even an above-average FS.

[Guest TerraTor]

But,

 

- No argument DE is tops, and there are a couple to look at, but simply put, we may be on the outside looking in. The money talked about for robinson, or most any other, likely is not remotely close to what someone like Peppers will likely command. I would love to be wrong, but I see no way we get Peppers. I don't think he would prefer to come here, if he had a choice, and I don't think we will offer him a deal that blows away everyone else, which is what it might take. Kampman? Honestly, I just don't know what his market will be coming off the injury.

 

- I think we all agree FS is a huge need. But if we are talking "what would Jerry do" what has he ever done to make you think he would go after a big ticket FS, or even a FS like Rolle? Jerry and Lovie seem to like the idea of getting a SS and moving him to FS. DM is a rare exception, but during Angelo's time here, when has he ever gone after that centerfielder?

 

- If its Peppers or Robinson, yes, it would be Peppers. Kampman or Robinson, again, likely the pass rusher. But what if we can't get either? Robinson or Rolle? I don't know about that. I am not sold on Rolle, and question whether he is even the sort of DB Jerry covets.

 

I think DE is a bigger need also considering a better pASS rush creates a better lookin secondary. Please never mention DM, god i hope hes gone

[Mongo3451]

I think DE is a bigger need also considering a better pASS rush creates a better lookin secondary. Please never mention DM, god i hope hes gone

I'd actually like to see D Manning stay as a special teamer. On the other hand, I totally agree with you on seeing him the secondary. He as gifted as I've seen, but dumber than a fencepost. If other step up on kick returns (IE:Hester, Knox) We should send Manning packing.

[Guest TerraTor]

I'd actually like to see D Manning stay as a special teamer. On the other hand, I totally agree with you on seeing him the secondary. He as gifted as I've seen, but dumber than a fencepost. If other step up on kick returns (IE:Hester, Knox) We should send Manning packing.

 

 

Ya see thats what i always said. People mention him as such a good KR. Well in case this joke of a staff doesnt remember, we have the best KR of all time wasting his career at the WR spot. I happen to recall his returns single handedly winning games. Hes never gonna do anything like that at WR. And thing is, D Manning isnt even as good on Defense as Hester is on Offense, and thats saying something.

[nfoligno]

Sorry, but DM has plenty of value. The problem with DM is not so much DM, but how the coaches have mishandled him for years. He was swapped around between FS and CB, and never developed at either. He was then moved to nickel, and frankly, but very well at nickel. In fact, I think there is a very easy argument that he is our best nickel, and by a sizable measure. The role of a nickel is significanltly different from FS or CB, and he simply seems to fit in that role. Yet, even though the team finally found a role he did very well in, they regardless once again moved him to a position he has always struggled in (FS). That isn't his fault.

 

DM is a solid nickel DB, and w/ our extremly thin group of DBs, that makes him very valuable to us, so long as we use him properly.

 

Further, he is a damn good returner. In fact, I would argue he is as good or better than Hester, and I am talking about Hester in his heyday. Hester was incredible, but where he was the most dangerous was as a punt returner. As a punt returner, he exploded for 3 and 4 scores and had great ypr averages. But while yes, he did score twice both of those two seasons, his average on kickoff returns was not nearly so great (26.4 and 21.7) DM only had 1 score, but his averages of 29.7 and 26.5 were simply better. Hester as a punt returner and DM as a kick returner would create a freakishly incredible combo. Also consider Hester has simply been bad in the return game for the last two years, and even if he again focuses on that area, there is no guarantee he finds that early success.

 

So while I agree we should not be considering DM at FS or CB, as a nickel and kickoff returner, he has tremendous value.

 

Ya see thats what i always said. People mention him as such a good KR. Well in case this joke of a staff doesnt remember, we have the best KR of all time wasting his career at the WR spot. I happen to recall his returns single handedly winning games. Hes never gonna do anything like that at WR. And thing is, D Manning isnt even as good on Defense as Hester is on Offense, and thats saying something.

 

[nfoligno]

I guess that is where the difference lies. I simply am not sold that Rolle is that good, and I do believe the difference in talent between Robinson as a CB and Rolle as a FS is in fact that great. Again, as I have said, I may simply be ignorant of Rolle. I have not seen him play much, and have not read or heard that much about him. But on this board, some members who have watched him due to living in and around Az, the opion is not high. In fact, Az has said he is really no better than what we have, which is pretty damning. That is why I like the idea of Robinson over Rolle. I simply question the value of Rolle, while I do not question the value of Robinson.

 

I'd probably go along with you on that, I just think you have to balance BPA with need. Rolle was a disappointment as a corner, which is where he originally played, but he's been OK as a FS from what I've heard. Not as good as Robinson, maybe. But we don't need a corner half as much as a safety, and the difference between the two players isn't big enough to make me think we should go for the lesser need.

 

Like you said about Atogwe: if Asomugha were a free agent, I'd be singing a different tune. But I think it'd take a pretty awesome CB to be a better pickup for the Bears than even an above-average FS.

 

[madlithuanian]

Agreed. As a starter he's a liability. But in nickel & dime...he' an assett. Plus, with hester fragility, it's nice to have another solid guy returning. I want Knox out of there. he should focus on being a WR...

 

Sorry, but DM has plenty of value. The problem with DM is not so much DM, but how the coaches have mishandled him for years. He was swapped around between FS and CB, and never developed at either. He was then moved to nickel, and frankly, but very well at nickel. In fact, I think there is a very easy argument that he is our best nickel, and by a sizable measure. The role of a nickel is significanltly different from FS or CB, and he simply seems to fit in that role. Yet, even though the team finally found a role he did very well in, they regardless once again moved him to a position he has always struggled in (FS). That isn't his fault.

 

DM is a solid nickel DB, and w/ our extremly thin group of DBs, that makes him very valuable to us, so long as we use him properly.

 

Further, he is a damn good returner. In fact, I would argue he is as good or better than Hester, and I am talking about Hester in his heyday. Hester was incredible, but where he was the most dangerous was as a punt returner. As a punt returner, he exploded for 3 and 4 scores and had great ypr averages. But while yes, he did score twice both of those two seasons, his average on kickoff returns was not nearly so great (26.4 and 21.7) DM only had 1 score, but his averages of 29.7 and 26.5 were simply better. Hester as a punt returner and DM as a kick returner would create a freakishly incredible combo. Also consider Hester has simply been bad in the return game for the last two years, and even if he again focuses on that area, there is no guarantee he finds that early success.

 

So while I agree we should not be considering DM at FS or CB, as a nickel and kickoff returner, he has tremendous value.

 

[AZ54]

I guess that is where the difference lies. I simply am not sold that Rolle is that good, and I do believe the difference in talent between Robinson as a CB and Rolle as a FS is in fact that great. Again, as I have said, I may simply be ignorant of Rolle. I have not seen him play much, and have not read or heard that much about him. But on this board, some members who have watched him due to living in and around Az, the opion is not high. In fact, Az has said he is really no better than what we have, which is pretty damning. That is why I like the idea of Robinson over Rolle. I simply question the value of Rolle, while I do not question the value of Robinson.

 

Just to clarify: Rolle as a FS is often late to the play, and as Bears fans we know what that's like. Most of his INTs are the result of tipped passes not from him reading a play and jumping a route. He's more consistent that DManning for sure but he's also not nearly as athletic so he can't run with the faster WR. Did I mention that he oftens completely misses on tackles? Would he be an upgrade for us seeing as we don't really have a FS right now? Yes, but only if it's for a reasonable salary for a mid-level player. He is not anywhere close to the long term option we'd all like to see at FS.

 

I tend to think he's asking for way more money than I feel he's worth and that fact the Cards aren't even trying to negotiate with him seems to validate that. If he's hanging around weeks after FA begins then he'll come down to earth and might accept a more reasonable contract.

[nfoligno]

I am in the same camp of thinking. It is not that I do not want to consider him, or that I do not see him as an upgrade over what we have. What we have is so pitiful that even a below average FS would be considered an upgrade. What I do not want to do though is invest heavily (upfront and long term) in a FS that is below average, or even average, and I just have not heard enough to convince me Rolle is more than that.

 

Rolle was a top 10 draft pick, and for that reason alone, his name is pretty well known. But I think his reputation, which may still be more based on his draft ranking than field production, creates a false sense. I wonder if we were to talk to a bunch of Card fans what their opinion would be.

 

If he is on the market a while, no better options appear available for us, and his asking price is reasonable, then fine. But the key for me is the money. Not because I fear our owners going broke, but more for football reasons. If a team pays a player a high salary, they are going to view him as a starter for a while. If Rolle is nothing more than average (or worse) I don't want to have the false sense that he is the long term solution. Short term starter, fine. But not a long term solution, and if we give him a big contract, that is what he would be viewed.

 

 

Just to clarify: Rolle as a FS is often late to the play, and as Bears fans we know what that's like. Most of his INTs are the result of tipped passes not from him reading a play and jumping a route. He's more consistent that DManning for sure but he's also not nearly as athletic so he can't run with the faster WR. Did I mention that he oftens completely misses on tackles? Would he be an upgrade for us seeing as we don't really have a FS right now? Yes, but only if it's for a reasonable salary for a mid-level player. He is not anywhere close to the long term option we'd all like to see at FS.

 

I tend to think he's asking for way more money than I feel he's worth and that fact the Cards aren't even trying to negotiate with him seems to validate that. If he's hanging around weeks after FA begins then he'll come down to earth and might accept a more reasonable contract.

 

[Guest TerraTor]

I am in the same camp of thinking. It is not that I do not want to consider him, or that I do not see him as an upgrade over what we have. What we have is so pitiful that even a below average FS would be considered an upgrade. What I do not want to do though is invest heavily (upfront and long term) in a FS that is below average, or even average, and I just have not heard enough to convince me Rolle is more than that.

 

Rolle was a top 10 draft pick, and for that reason alone, his name is pretty well known. But I think his reputation, which may still be more based on his draft ranking than field production, creates a false sense. I wonder if we were to talk to a bunch of Card fans what their opinion would be.

 

If he is on the market a while, no better options appear available for us, and his asking price is reasonable, then fine. But the key for me is the money. Not because I fear our owners going broke, but more for football reasons. If a team pays a player a high salary, they are going to view him as a starter for a while. If Rolle is nothing more than average (or worse) I don't want to have the false sense that he is the long term solution. Short term starter, fine. But not a long term solution, and if we give him a big contract, that is what he would be viewed.

 

I imagine hell be a better option then the guy we draft in the 5th and redshirt as ZOmbie calls it

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Good call NFO. You mentioned something and than I saw where Lovie mentioned how the Bears could really use a safety. I'd be exstatic if we could land a Peppers and Rolle for our defense. Those would be two MAJOR MAJOR upgrades.