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Aaron Donald was a pressure guy, but teams knew you could scheme him bc of his size and run at him. Its hard to find the right guy. Zion Young has a build/size you want but doesnt have the "it" factor like Bain for pressure/sacks. I would like the Bears to find a guy that teams need to scheme against since we have Dayo who has the size opposote of Sweat.

well considering they arent even speaking, and Garrett doesnt want to be there, it might be less.

Yup. If we don't have that guy there, I can really see us trading back. The sweet spot of this draft is 25 through 100

You would think that CLE's defense would be at least a top 10 unit once with Garrett, yet since he entered the league in 2017, the highest the defense finished in scoring was 13th, twice, and ironically, the only two times they have been in the top 20. So without him, are they literally the worst defense in the league every year?

It's always easy to look at drafts after the fact. I preferred OL but Carter was intriguing. Picking at 25 it's a whole different perspective. You have to identify a player.

All kind of draft experts have him rated high. The key will be what scouts think of him. I think Downs and Theinaman are legitimate but I'm not an expert. I use Draft Buzz as the measurement just because it's easier that way. Theinaman is early 2nd round rated and E M -Warren is 51. I'm waiting for the Dane Brugler guide. In a March 4th mock draft he had Thieneman at 18 and Warren at 30. He's pretty consistent. One pundit said he is a Brisker clone.

It's always nice to dream but he's costing more than than just 2 first round picks. The GB trade for Parsons is the floor.

Wow. Apparently the Browns restructured Myles Garrett's contract, so if we traded for him, this would be our cap number for him: 2026 $9.1M 2027 $17M 2028 $21.3M 2029 $58M OR $5M dead cap to cut him 2030 $58M OR Nothing to cut him Those are three VERY affordable years for Myles Garrett, and a $5M out after that. This makes him very affordable for us. The only question is what will the Browns need in trade to eat all that cap. Very interesting.

Poles should be fired if he uses a first round pick on an average safety from the MAC. I do not understand the first round draft hype on this kid but if it convinces someone in our division to draft him in the first I’ll be happy. Hard to see how his 15% missed tackle rate last year gets better against NFL talent. In contrast Caleb Downs 11% and Dillon Thieneman 8.3% career against far better competition. To be fair EMW career missed tackle rate was 11% but I still can’t shake off the lower level of competition. He may adjust over time to the NFL but I want a starter or at least a player who can handle significant snaps right away at 25.

It wasn’t only the superbowl where Campbell had issues. His problems were throughout the season. Just put him at LG where he belongs and let him succeed. You could be right, Bain might be like Hendrickson and always struggle against the run. Will he hit that same ceiling on sacks? Part of Hendrickson success on sacks was playing behind a great offense which kept opponents passing and allowed him to focus on the rush. For me in a top ten pick, which was the basis of this thread, I want a 3 down player. Same reason I preferred Maxx over Trey IF, and only if, we were going to make a big splash at DE.

Campbell graded out well, superbowl wasnt great, but Patriots are not giving up on him yet as LT. Bain won't be a Myles Garrett, but can be a Hendrickson, Freeney, Jared Allen... who all had 32" arms. He has a motor and played against top college competition and produced. He plays for the right defensive coach, he can be special.

Same thing was said about Will Campbell last year.

This one turned out cool

Same. Once Poles went to Georgia and Carter couldn't do the workout, I was done. Them, he works out Wright and Wright says, “I'll never quit on you". Sold! I liked the Rome pick, but was pissed we didn't draft Verse.

AZ54, appreciate the response. I dont fully agree, but I understand what youre saying too. Its not like we are way off from each other. I agree with a lot of your analysis, just not how we rank them relative to each other. I also agree neither is a flashy speed rusher. I think Jacas has a better motor and Zion takes plays off.

For PhX: I took a look at some of the scouting and highlights of Jacas. Jacas might be the better pass rusher at this point in time but I think he is what he is and there isn't much more upside. I still think Zion Young is the better run defender and he's more capable of getting off blocks quicker. I'd say he's better moving laterally and that first step quickness also shows up once he breaks free of a block on pass rush. I think I said earlier that some of Zion Young's movement traits, and how he has to win as a pass rusher, remind me of Austin Booker. IMO that lateral quickness is missing from Jacas' game and that might also be why he struggles at times to get off a block and into a run gap. Zion likely has a little bit more room for upside to his pass rush but neither of these guys is going to be a sack leader in the NFL. I still think Zion is the better choice and more likely to be a 3-down replacement for Montez Sweat. One of these days we're going to need to find a true speed element to our pass rush but that could come in the form of a good 3-tech. In that case having DEs, ala Booker, who can release quickly from a block is a benefit.

I beg to differ because I wanted Darnell Wright over Jalen Carter and apparently so did Poles. I also think Rome Odunze had some supporters among our draft experts here for that second first round pick.

Caleb Downs. He closes so fast on run plays he'd make Brisker look like he's waiting at a bus stop. Safeties that can line up 10-15 yards deep and still make the play around the LOS are game changers. We saw what Kyle Hamilton did against us last year. On top of that he's got the coverage ability for either man or zone. I like Ruben Bain but arm length issue is real and one place it shows up is his 20% missed tackle rate. He's a hustle player who does not have elite athleticism. On pass rushes he's learned how to keep OT hands off him but that all gets more challenging in the NFL because the OTs are faster and longer. You have to match that with what he'll be able to do as a run defender and I'd gladly take Darnell Wright on him all day long. In the end I just don't see him as an elite 3-down edge defender. I think he'll have good sack production which fans focus on but defensive coordinators know the first order of business is to get the offense into 3rd and long.

I hope they bring in more. They need to find a long term solution, no more center shuffle.

Better not draft Micah Parsons, he has short arms. If a guy can play, and Bain can, I dont care of he has 20" arms lol🦖 If a small school prospect has short arms, pass.

I was trying to get more information on the arm length thing and saw where Matt Miller from ESPN sain no edge rusher drafted in the first round since 1999 had under 31" arms. The teams seemed to be united on arm length for edge players. Micah Parsons were 31 1/2" Bain is under 31".

I saw a podcast where they were talking about edge with short arms. There are no hall of famers edge that has short arms. Not my stat and I never checked that statement.

I didn't realize he was a T in college. He played center in high school. Him and Trey Juhn both played T in college. Trey did have 150 snaps at center last year. There's probably 12 draftable Cs in this years draft. BJ wants a smart center so I would expect the one we drive would have been interviewed. Hecht, Burton and now Parker are in that group.

I like this guy. He explains the arm issue with Bain as well.

Arm length scares me for Bain. Everything else is off the charts, but the 3rd shortest arms for a DE in combine history? Yikes.