lemonej
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Posts posted by lemonej
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I keep seeing comments about redzone targets the Bears should go out and get. What the heck is Olsen and Clark? After seeing Cutler highlight TDs with Tony Schefler don't you think we have 2 decent redzone targets on the roster? I love the thought of Cutler drilling the ball in the endzone to either one of these guys. This team played with two TEs a lot so I don't see them going completely away from that. Olsen split out wide would be the same as Jurevicuos except with younger legs and better health. The issue with Plaxico is not the suspension its his sentence for having the unregistered gun that carries minimum 3 year jail term and the New York mayor making noise about no one is above the law. That doesn't sound like he's getting off scott-free.There will be pressure on prosecutors to bring back a conviction with jail time.
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First, on Melton, I just do not understand why everything thinks of him, and compares him to, pass rushers.
If anyone wants a player to compare or think about, how about Alex Brown. Did you know the two are identical in size? Both were considered elite in terms of athletic talent leading up to the draft. Brown fell due, in large part, to questions of desire and committment, not to mention attitude. Melton fell due to being raw and a lack of production. But in terms of style, I personally see similarities.
For all the perception, Brown really isn't much in tems of pass rush. He has a couple good games a year where he ups his sack totals, but those players are not the standard. Brown is actually, despite his size, a pretty dang good run defender. His athleticism does not seem to translate to the pass rush, but he does use his athleticism well to stop the run. I would say that is similar to Melton, who was actually pretty decent against the run (Texas as a whole was very good against the run) but against the pass, he was dang near absent. He has a solid lower base and power in his lower body, which helps in levelege and run defense, but the athleticism simply does not translate to pass rush.
If Melton developed in Alex Brown, I think everyone here would be happy. I personally don't think that will happen, but just saying. My thing is, I just don't understand why everything thinks of him as a pass rusher. Michael Johnson was considered a raw talent, but when on the field, the one area he looked great was rushing the passer. Melton? He just never looked good rushing the passer.
Agreed many on the staff should be on notice.
IMHO, Drake should already be gone, but agreed that w/ 3 rookie WRs, as well as still young and developing WRs in Hester and Bennett, Drake has a lot of colors to work w/, but needs to prove he can paint the picture, rather than continue w/ the finger paint job he has been doing.
Lets see. Turner now has a franchise QB, much improved OL, upper tier RB, loads of young talent at WR, and an upper tier TE duo. I am not going to say he has to get our offense into the top 10 instantly, as it may take some time w/ so many new pieces, but our offense needs to be pretty damn good, or we need to find an OC who can make the offense look good.
Marinelli - Not sure he is as on the spotlight. But agree Lovie sure is.
I have to disagree about your thoughts about Alex Brown. Coming out of Florida Alex Brown was a great pass rusher and was considered lacks in the run game. I can remember watching him wearing number 13 constantly staying in the backfield. I you are comparing him to Brown now you get no arguement out of me. Brown was an all SEC player and Melton is strictly a project and I can't really compare him to any current NFL player who scored touchdowns his first two years at college and then went to defensive end.
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Okay, a friend and I were talking about our picks, and what NFL players we might compare them too. Understand, I am not saying our picks will become, are as good, or will end up like those they are compared to. I might see similar traits, or actually feel the upside is comparable. Anyway, here are some thoughts.
Jarron Gilbert
The player that comes to mind for me is Richard Seymour. Gilbert is 6'5 290. Seymour is 6'6 310, but as I recall, Saymour was lighter coming out of college, and gained weight to play in a 3-4, which Gilbert could easily do. Seymour was always considered very athletic and very versatile. I remember the belief that he could play as a true 4-3 DT, 4-3 LDE or a 3-4 DE. I have read the same about Gilbert, who has experience playing all over the DL, and moving to the NFL, could play just about anywhere. He has the frame to easily add some weight to play a position that stresses power, or maintain/reduce weight to play outside. In our system, which stresses ligher/quicker DTs, he likely doesn't need to do much w/ his weight. Seymour shows excellent combination of burst and strength, and I think Gilbert does the same. While the two will play different roles in the NFL, I see similarities in they athleticism/power/versatility.
Juaquin Iglesias
I had been thinking Iglesias somewhere between Booker and Boldin. He has the traits of booker (booker of old) in that he is a great route runner w/ sticky glue hands who always seems to find space, but I think he has better YAC ability than Booker, though not as much as Boldin. Then my friend threw out the name TJ Housyourmama, and it sounds about right.
TJ is 6'1 200, while Iglesias is 6'1 210. Both are considered very good possession or possession plus WRs who lack elite speed. TJ is incredible in route running and hands, and tracks the ball very well. Also, while he is not a threat to to every pass to the house, he does well running after the catch, using both power and field awareness to find space. This is just how I would evaluate Iglesias.
Henry Melton
While I think Melton has a LONG way to go, the player I think about is actually already on the Bears. Alex Brown. Melton is considered very athletic, but due to being so raw and the lack of production, he fell to the 4th round. Brown too was considered very athletic, but due to questions of motivation and committment, as well as attitude, he fell to the 4th round as well.
I have never felt Brown was all that in terms of pass rush. He ends up with 5 or 6 sacks, but often those sacks seem to come in bunches. He will have a game here and there where he does well attacking the QB, but is not what I would consider a consistent pass rusher. Despite his size, Brown is actually solid against the run though. Brown's athleticism translates far better in run defense than in pass rush. I think the same is true for Melton. Melton has a very strong lower base. Just think about a RB. Usually have a solid and strong lower body, especially power runners like Melton was. That can translate to the run defense, where you are using leverage and lower body power to fight off your block and make a play against the ball carrier. His athleticism does not translate however to the pass rush. Despite what he does in shorts, on a track surface, that explosion just wasn't there when the pads went on. Against the run, Melton did pretty well, and was part of a very good Texas run defense. In terms of pass rush though, rarely could he beat his man. He just didn't have the burst to beat his man on the edge, nor the ability to get inside. Solid when the play comes to him (run defense) but just not much when he has to move to the ball (pass rush).
If Melton became Alex Brown, I think everyone would be thrilled. I simply (a) do not see him being the pass rusher many try to make him out to be and (
think he will take considerable time to develop (if at all) due to just how raw he is. DJ Moore
This comparison was from my friend, but I like it. Cortland Finnegan (Tenn). Finnigan is listed at 5'10 190, but most say that is a generous 5'10, and more likely in the 5'9 and change range. So while he may be a hair taller, the difference is minimal, and the overall body for the two are very similar.
Finnigan plays a very physical game, despite his size. He plays strong against receivers, and is strong in run support. While short, he plays bigger than he is. All of these are traits I have read about for Moore. Finnigan is a playmaker, as Moore is considered as well. While i am still not 100% on Moore's wagon, I like the comparison, see similarities, and would be absolutely thrilled if this is the sort of player Moore could become for us.
Johnney Knox
The comparison I would make is Devery Henderson. Both are 5'11, and while Henderson is a bit heavier, I believe he too was in the 185-190 range coming out of college. Both are elite speed threats who lacked route running refinement entering the NFL. Henderson has never developed his route running very well, and is still today simply a deep threat WR, but what a threat. This past season, for example, he had only 32 catches, but for nearly 800 yards and nearly a 25 ypc average. Henderson may never be a consistent WR, but as a deep threat, he is tremenous. I think Knox is similar. He has played at a JUCO, and then a DII school, and was able to beat DBs w/ his pure speed, but in the NFL, will have to develop his route running better. Right out of college, he can add a deep dimension to our team, but will likely be a role player, at least initially. One major difference between the two is, Knox is considered to have solid hands, while Henderson drops a lot of balls. Further, while Henderson never really developed his game, Knox I think does have the potential to do so.
Right now, I think Henderson is a good comparison. Deep threat WR who is not consistent. If Knox can develop better as a route runner, the comparison I might throw out there is Joey Galloway, also 5'11 and similar weight/speed. Knox must develop to be like Galloway, which is why I compare him now to Henderson, but whether he turns out to be Henderson or Galloway, either way, I think he could make an impact for us.
Marcus Freeman
Honestly, don't know. Freeman has tremendous athleticism. In fact, he was originally a SLB, but was moved to WLB because (a) he struggled to shed blocks and (
the team wanted to better utilize his speed and athleticism. I just am not sure who to compare him too, as frankly, many LBs seem to fit such a description.Al Afalava
Archuleta? Both are nearly idential in height/weight. Both are considered box safeties who lack coverage skills. Arch was essentially a 4th LB on the field. I don't know if Afalava has that sort of upside, but I think their size and playing style are similar.
Lance Louis
No idea. It really depends on what we intend to use him as. Will he be a FB? A blocking TE? An OG?
Derek Kinder
Hines Ward? I guess it depends on whether or not he can return to pre-injury form, but prior to the injury, this is the WR I think he would have compared to. Both 6' 205-215 range. Both lack elite speed, but play a physical style. Solid route running and great hands. While Kinder is coming off a less than stellar season, I love the mental makeup of a kid trying to play coming off an injury. He wasn't 100%, but gave 100%. If he gets back to pre-injury form, this is a comparison I would make (though he would be Ward light). If he can't revert back to pre-injury form, he won't be on the roster, and it doesn't matter.
Nfo I can pretty much agree with your assessments I might tweek just a couple by comparing Iglesias to Mark Bradley by saying he is not is fast but may be tougher and a better route runner maybe even simlar to another former Sooner Mark Clayton.
When I think of Freeman I think of N'all Diggs another former Buckeye.Btw this pick seemed oddly similar to Lance Briggs also.I hear a lot of talk about moving other players but do they think Briggs can play the SLB? I do.
Melton still has me wanting to compare him to Texans 2nd round pick Conner Barwin who has about the same amount of experience at the position
DJ Moore reminds me a lot of Ahmad Plummer
Johnny Knox reminds me of a prospect that came out a couple of years ago out of Hampton named Jerome Mathis who the Texans took in the mid rounds an he made an impact as a rookie in the return game.
I can only hope that the Bears have found a John Lynch in Afalava.
If Kinder can duplicate Marcus Colston numbers I'll be happy.
I had to think about this a bit but Gilbert reminds me of B-Rob. I always thought he should have played inside and never at DE because he wasn't quick enough and he seemed to take plays off at times which seems to be one of the knocks on Gilbert(He doesn't bring it on every play) Thats kind of a similar comment to what was said about Alex Brown coming out.
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I agree.
I think Santa brought the kids a lot of new toys, and if they can't have fun with them, Santa will bring in some new kids to play with 'em. Or at least, I hope so.
Mad L thats what I'm saying.I think its put up shut up for the whole bunch. If I had to make a judgement on one in particular its Drake the WR coach who I think is stealing. I look at his prized pupil Roy Williams and see his development in the NFL and understand why the Bears are having trouble developing WRs. I also point to Turner also who had trouble earlier when he was here with Wannie. Marcus Robinson was not developed under Turner and he turned out to be a game breaker.
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Jets talking to Plaxico. What if we still could get Plaxico Buress to sign with us would we be a better team? IMHO we just need a big body type with the size of Plax for Cutler to throw two.We have a lot of 6 ft guys who can't be used in the red zone with the fade routes.Olsen is the main option. We also have the 6'7 TE Davis but we never use him or the 6'4 Ridaeu. With what we drafted on the defensive side of the ball we should be a better team on D so it will give us more chances to score. With the addition of Plax it gives us bigger targets and creates mismatches all over the field
I'll put it this way Plaxico is very talented but it is not clear that he won't be locked up or free. Until that is decided it is pointless to talk about him. There is going to be speculation on whether he will be suspended by the commish etc. This team doesn't need that kind of attention on it. All eyes are going to be on Cutler to begin with let him get his number one WR from college up to speed and see what happens. I just remember what happened with Tank while he was on trial and it basically was a circus.
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I wanna see how Melton's career goes versus Mr. Versatile Conner Barwin who is also a guy who has limited experience at his drafted position. I think these are similar players who's careers have followed similar paths.
The other thing I want to say is that quite a few on the Bears coaching staff are on notice in mye eyes.
Turner just be cause of the arrival of Cutler
Drake because he really hasn't developed any WR in his tenure and now has 3 more prospects under his tutelage
Marinelli because every one is expecting him to be the D-line Messiah
Lovie who is taking over calling plays this year should have the bullseye on all year.
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Since CBS has been regularly showing SEC games usuaully you get to see one or two Vandy games nationally a year but last year's game against Auburn was a good one to watch.
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First of all I have to say that I think that Rashied Davis should be on the bubble when he arrives at TC. After he dropped so many catchable passes last season he needs to compete for a roster spot.
Second I believe that the quickest way for a rookie to make an impact is on returns and that is why my pick is Johnny Knox. He is one of the guys that I thought the Bears would target all along so I have to stick with him.
Third and final I do believe that Lovie was not happy with the product of the SLB which is why Hunter was replaced by Roach when he was injured. Usually starters never lose their jobs due to injury. Hunter did. I felt Roach was nothing special so I think that a prospect like Freeman has a chance.
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Yeah,
I think the starters will be Earl and Bullocks, with the backups being Payne and Alfalfa(sp). I think Steltz needs to beat out Alfalfa. The good thing is that there will be alot of compitition at some of the back up spots. Louis vs Davis at 3rd TE. I think Gilbert vs Dusty. The trio of WR vs Davis, Rideau, etc. Melton vs Baldwin. Freeman vs Hilly, Roach, and Williams.
Good stuff to look at during training camp.
I'm trying to figure out why Louis would be competition for Davis when he was an OG in college which means he would be a project at the position.
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Because for some bat shit reason, our staff actually likes McKie. God I hope we grab Southerland as a UDFA.
Sutherland is coming off a broken foot and must prove he is healthy. I would like them to go after Javorskie Lane. Who can be a relief as a ball carrier for Forte.
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more sense to move Vasher to FS and leave payne at SS. Keep tillman at CB with Mcbride and stick the kid at Nickel, he is a ball hawk. Anything will be better then manning at the position. At least a very good upgrade. Manning and Hester and Knox on KR " Which way did he go, Which way did he go?"
I would prefer to see a younger player learn the position than switch one of these veterans. The Bears seem to be trying to keep in mind that they go up against teams that are going to be using 3 WR sets. They have drafted 4CBs in the last 3 drafts which tells me they are trying to do something to a couple of veterans on this team.
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I agree with you.
The fact that one of the best talent evaluators in the NFL Belichick moved down often in this draft told me that something was wrong with the talent in this draft.We passed on some guys but so did a lot of other teams did too. Watching Quan Cosby with Bill Cosby on ESPN not get drafted was really uncomfortable to watch.
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After the season, I look forward to this day, and then after, feel so wore out from all the intelligence that has bombarded me. I have an opinion, but it only matters to me. Is it a good draft, I hope so, but nobody will know for a couple of years. The facts; some will hit and some will miss, and I hope its enough to raise my team to something of a glory day I once felt. Since the Cutler trade, I have renewed trust and excitement, that I will be happy most sundays. I dont care if they drafted 8 DTs with our picks or who the hell we get in the 7th round. Whether we added the right piece in FAgency or as a draft pick, it only matters when we win and a 4th round draft choice three ago, happened to play well. Its about winning, and these coaches and GM will be responsible, or they will leave in the very near future. My glass is half full and will always be that way, even when they screw up, becuase their is always a new player and a new coach to get excited about.
I couldn't have said it any better.I took the weekend off just to watch this and talk with family and friends about this draft and I feel like I have been at work instead.
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I completely agree. In the first year I want him to just be able to get on the field for a handful of plays per game. This is 1 kid I have really high hopes for.
I know what you mean. I have a lot of respect for JA in the 4th,5th and 6th rounds for the guys. Regardless of what we want one of JA's 4th rounders netted this team Jay Cutler. and that's Orton.
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Seriously, why did we go with Louis and Kinder when guys like Canfield and Cadogen were there? Both guys were projected to go anywhere from the 2nd-4th, but were there in the 7th.
I understand we upgraded significantly via FA on the OL, but when guys like these 2 are there, you take them.
My question to you is, how often has JA drafted o-linemen? Not very often. He chooses to go after veteran guys on the o-line. What happened today is nothing new. After over 40 years of watching Bears drafts and wondering what the Hell they were doing. We all think that JA is bad but Papa Bear made a lot of questionable moves and until his son Mugsie got involved bringing in Jim Finks we would have been struggling for decades. Lets take this for what it is until we see the players on the field. Btw Louis was an OG in college and the Bears projsect him to TE.
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I like the pick because
(a) as you said, we have a QB who can help the develolpment of a downfield WR, rather than hinder,
(
we have worked to upgrade the OL, which buys a WR time to work deep routes, and © we drafted a possession WR earlier, and thus he Knox will not be forced into action too soon.
Honestly, I think Knox has potential, but will take 2 or 3 years to develop. Anyone expecting much this year I think will be disappointed.
I'll put it this way,Devin Hester made an impact immediately on returns and I believe Knox is going to be utilized there first. I also remember Berrian catching a TD from Krentzel in his first year. If Knox gives 2 or 3 TDs his first season I think that would be more than I expect.
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He is a little haevy for a guard and there has been speculation that at his size teams are looking to kick him outside but his conditioning is mostly what's in question.
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This is one of the kids I thought the Bears would target because they seem to try to find these diamonds in the rough. I watch this guy workout and he can absolutely fly. I like this pick and the Moore pick. I wonder what the Bears are becoming Vandy North?
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I like wrs Iglesias, Barden and Knox ,DE Sidbury and Johnson,LBs Jason Williams, Kaluka Maiava OG Green S Johnson, Underwood and Vaughn OT Parrish,Kropog.
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As a Bear fan since 1966 I have to say this is the biggest trade since I have been following the team.We have always traded for the Mike Phipps of the world or signed the Kordell Stewarts of the league and today they actually pulled the trigger and I couldn't begin to say what I feel because Iam numb.
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The only way I look at a chicken is with a beer can stuck up the center half filled with BBQ sauce on my grill.LOL
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Well, first off, women are humans. Pretty much everyone agrees a humans life is more important than an animal. Also, unless there are women being forced to fight against each other AGAINST their will until death then it is much different.
I admittedly dont know much about chicken fighting, which is why I thought it was the closest comparison you made, because it is animals being forced to fight each other against their will. However, dogs are looked at differently than chickens by most people. Now, thats not a fact, but youll be hard pressed to prove to me that chickens are looked at the same way as dogs are.
Now, Im not a hunter but as long as its legal, its different. Same with bull fighting, which isnt the same circumstance anyway.
Either way, what Vick did was bad enough to earn time in a federal prison. Nobody, including Pacman or Chris Henry came anywhere close to that. If you have a problem with the laws and/or punishment thats a different issue.
Some psychologist suggest that in the case of some mass murderers their behavior can be tied into the way they may have treated the family pet.If a murderer was abusive to animals or pets as a child they tend to not have any value for life at all Human or animal as an adult.
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I'm going to be sick. When is Angelo going to learn, and when are the rest of us? Why are we in the freaking position we are today? Because Angelo has ignored OL in the draft so damn often. He drafts OL only when his back is against the wall, and otherwise stocks up on 6th and 7th rounders to take flyers on OL prospects. But we are in our current situation (talking just about the OL) because every year, Angelo looks to add bandaids when the problem calls for a body cast.
Think about what we have done and are talking about. Just a few weeks ago, many/most on this board agreed our OL sucked and needed a total overhaul. We signed an OT, who has one start in 4 seasons w/ two teams, and who we intend to play at OG. We signed an OT, coming off a bad year, who was called "turnstyle" by his former team, and who many here even say is a young version of St. Clair, who we thought was worth no more than a whopping $1.5m. Now we are talking about Orlando Pace, one of the true great LTs of his time, but who today is what? He is the Marvin Harrison of LTs. Yet fans here want to sign him immediatly and start him over Williams. Huh?
How are these moves different from signing Reuben Brown, Garza, Miller? They play good/ decent for a year or so, and then fall off a cliff. And then we are back in the same place we began because we didn't draft shit, and thus had no one developed and ready to take over. But no worries. In a few more years Walter Jones may be slowing down, and I am sure we will then be interested.
So many here like to talk about the well known definition of insanity, but to me, that is exactly what this offseason has been thus far w/ regard to our OL. More bandaids to try and cover up a massive wound.
Nfo is this more an indictment of JA or the offensive line coach who has yet to develop any of the Bears OL they have drafted?Lots of teams take late round lineman and turn them into seviceable players but Heastand(sp?) doesn't.Beekman is the first guy drafted by the Bears to actually make the starting lineup.I still get sick seeing Colombo do okay in Dallas and then the very next time JA takes a first round OL he gets injured.Would you be so gungho about going after another guy so soon?At 18 what will be available at OT the 4th rated prospect at the position.Isn' that similar to what we got last season in Williams?With this offensive staff this might be the only way to go because all rookies have trouble seeing the field with Forte being the exception.
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Usually I would agree with you, but in this type of discussion its relevent as a maturity and ignorance issue. Think back to when you were in school. Surely some of your views and beliefs have been changed by life experiences and interacting with different types of people.
Hopefully he can learn something from you.
Maybe that's me being a little naive since I attended a racially mixed high school I learned about diverse cultures at 14 years of age.
Who do our rookies compare to?
in Bearstalk
Posted
Supposedly in the Cover 2 the perfect trio would be 3 WLB type LB's according to Lovie. They are supposed to be interchangeable as is the safeties. Thats what I'm getting at. I once remember you saying that if Briggs wasn't playing next to Urlacher he wouldn't be that good. I guess you've changed that stance.
I not trying to go contrary to your thoughts but agree with just a litlle different spin on things. For instance you tried to match up body types and 40 times I tried to take players from the same program or a similar draft position or the prototype for the Bears' scheme. Like Iglesias,Bradley and Clayton all former Sooners and Freeman and Diggs from Ohio State. Afalava to Lynch who along with Bob Sanders are both the Best safeties who have recently played in the cover 2 and Kinder and Colston who were both drafted late in the 7th round.
As for B-Robs athletic ability all I know is when the Bears went to Green Bay the weekend of Payton's death he was athletic enough to block a kick and preserve a rare win at Lambeau during those days. Being athletic at San Jose State or in a swimming pool doesn't translate to Richard Seymour IMO.
Mathis couldn't do jack because he got injured.
Barwin's sacks were in the Big East which to me had only a couple of good teams with Cinci being one of them. Maybe I should find out how he fared against OT prospect Beatty at UConn. I think both he and Melton should be interesting studies in the coming years. This doesn't mean that I think that was a good pick because I don't. If they are looking for insurance against losing one of the DEs on the roster then I think they should have gotten a more game ready player.
Lets also add Illinois' Will Davis to the list of guys that switched from offense to DE. This one started off at WR and TE and was awesome in their Rose Bowl year but slacked off in his senior year because teams knew more about him and schemed for him.