nfoligno

They have the right to take your blood, w/o your permission, w/o a court order? Sounds like a constitutional violation to me. Even cop friends of mine say, you do not ever blow if you have had anything to drink. They tell me that a single beer can be enough, if for example you have had nothing to eat, or whatever. Point is, you may believe you are no where close to drunk, but legally, you may not be correct. I remember a bar I used to go to in college that had a breathalizer set up at the door. On your way out, you could blow to check and see if you were cool. The good in this was obvious. The bad was guys who would blow after every drink, pushing the limit as much as possible. Anyway, I think it would shock many how much/little it takes before you are drunk in the eyes of the law.

I'm not going to claim to know the laws in AZ, but the DAs office did say they were considering charging Tanks w/ a lesser crime of slightly impaired. Some states have recognize a difference between DWI (driving while intoxicated) and DWU, or some similar form, which usually means driving under the influence, or something like that. In the case of the later, it is more about the judgment of the police officer. The law is set as to what level a typical person would be deemed drunk, but if an officer believes an individual, who is just under the legal limit, is regardless showing signs in their driving, they have the leeway to charge the individual regardless. Not all states have this, but some do, and all the articles regarding Tanks sure gave that impression as it was the DA talking about charging Tank, even if he was below the legal limit, as he was showing signs of being impaired.

Personally, I said prior to the draft that I have changed stances, and now believe reaching slightly for a player you want and/or for a position of need is perfectly acceptable. Some argue we can trade down, but if there is a player you simply love, it is worth taking the risk trading down for the player and losing him? I continue to point to Indy and Freeney. If there is a player you love, who you feel is simply going to be great for your team, get him. If that means slightly reaching, so what. If you are right on your evaluation of the player, a couple years down the road, NO ONE will talk about reaching and only talk about being lucky in getting the player. Who today (other than maybe me:)) remembers or thinks about how much of a reach Freeney was? All that is thought about is Indy having one of the best pass rushers in the league.

How am I avoiding the point. We gave those players you mention 4 years. Benson has had three. You say you just know after how ever many years, but they continue to give Rex chances. Sometimes you just know, but other times you suspect, but also still think there is a chance the player turns around, which I think may be the case w/ Benson. You are assuming drafting Forte automatically means the staff has given up on Benson, but w/ his injury, it is also just as possible they are drafting a player who is insurance if (a) his injury doesn't allow him to continue and ( injury aside, Benson doesn't step up. Further, the staff may feel that Forte could provide the team the competition and 1-2 punch we had w/ TJ/Benson. You assume Forte is simply an indictment on Benson, but it may just as easily be an admission they made a mistake trading TJ last year.

It may be more than just Steltz. IMHO, the staff may feel McGowan or Payne would be equal to Arch, and are further hoping Steltz is an upgrade to those two. If the staff felt Arch was lower on the depth chart than Payne and McGowan, then this move makes more sense. I think it should also be pointed out the staff tends to try and release players sooner rather than later, as a show of respect for the player as that player has a better opportunity to find a job elsewhere.

He refused, on advise from his attorney, to take the breathalizer. I have said this before, but that is what pretty much any attorney here in Texas would advise if you have had anything to drink at all. No clue how boating is different, but if you are driving and pulled over, and refuse the test, it is an automatic suspension of your drivers liscense for 6 months, and I believe fines may be involved, but you avoid the DWI charge. I believe this has been discussed before, and I want to say some have said in states like AZ, if you refuse, the cops can force you take take a blood test, or maybe refusal is equal to guilt, but not here.

Seems to happen more and more since having kids. You always hear about how beer kills brain cells, but I contend kids do it far faster.

I would argue AP is not a 3rd down back. He is a better receiver than Benson, but I would argue Benson is a better runner, and frankly, I think Benson is a better blocker. AP freaking sucks as a blocker. AP is a special teams ace and #3 backup RB who was elevated higher than he ever should have been. I agree, but I am not Angelo. Angelo has been VERY outspoken in ripping the OL. He let two OL go, and openly talked about moving our LT to the RT side, which is essentially a demotion. As for OG, while I disagree, I imagine he simply believes St. Clair and/or Beekman are solid. Come on. There is a difference betweening being happy w/ what you have, and having so much confidence in what you have that (a) you ignore the position in the draft and ( you pass a player you were very high on going into the draft. We drafted Harrison in the 3rd. Does that mean we Angelo doesn't like Harris and/or Dusty? We drafted Steltz next. So we don't like Payne, McGowan or DM? Heck, I read where Steltz said he might play FS, so maybe Angelo doesn't like Brown? Come on. Obviously the team isn't thrilled w/ Benson. That's a news flash? Not only that, but there are also questions regarding his injury. But Angelo flat out said he was not happy w/ pretty much the entire offense. Are you going to sit there and say Angelo was happy w/ our OL play or QB play?

No. I would actually say he went w/ option #5. He did put on the weight, as requested. And before the comments/jokes, he didn't appear to me like some fat arce. I found a couple pictures, which I will attempt to attach. Benson doesn't look ripped, but he doesn't look like the wide body some are making out either. Further, I believe you theorized the staff didn't rip him for the weight because they asked him to put it on, but I would contend that if he added weight w/o working out at all, and came to camp looking flat out fat and out of shape, I think the staff would have been all over his arce.

No results because no test taken. I read in one of the stories that Benson, upon advise of his attorney, did not take the breatalizer test. And before anyone assumes to much, that is pretty much going to be the standard advise. I think we have had this discussion on this board before, but here in Texas, it is still my understanding that if you do not blow, while there are reprecutions, you are not automatically guilty of being drunk. Even friends who are police have told me to refuse the breath test if you have been drinking pretty much anything at all. In a potential DWI situation, better lose automatically lose your liscense for 6 months (penalty for not blowing) compared to a DWI conviction. Of you can jump out of the car and avoid the police for a day. See Lance Briggs.

Bomber, you didn't move the thread, but at the same time, you are an admin and said to drop it and discuss in another forum if desired. So while not moving the thread, when you throw stuff out there as you did, as an admin, you have to understand who it can be taken.

Agreed. One. There have not been but a handful of posts all day, so a little off-topic isn't the end of the world. Two. Police corruption can easily be considered relavent. Some have already condemned Benson on the word of the arresting officer. They believe that an officer should never be questioned, end of story. Others are not as trusting of officers, and are making their case, which in turn can support a case of "wait and see" w/ Benson. Thus, police corruption can easily be tied. Three. I recall we had a poll, and while I do not really recall the final judgment being given, it was my belief the poll shows the vast majority of posters wanted to either be very liberal in allowing posts to remain in this threat, or simply leave it totally open. So unless that poll was for nothing, or my understanding of the polls results are incorrect, I don't see the need to continually talk about moving discussions.

Gotta call out Drunkbomber on this one. You pulled this yesterday too, and I have to kind of call you out on it. Yesterday at 3:56, you said to me, Leinart was at his own house and as far as I know I havent heard anything saying those girls were definitely minors. This is such a different situation. As far as the Cop discussion goes lets just drop it. Its not the point of the thread and doesnt have any relevance in the conversation. If need be we can make a thread about it in the water cooler but I dont think that is a good idea either. I really was never part of the good cop v bad cop issue, so I had no problem leaving it alone. I thought it odd that you seemed to be among the main antagonists in the subject, and are telling me to drop it, but as I said, I didn't care much. But then I noticed that while you are telling me to "drop it", you then continue to debate the very same issue, one you really got going. I believe this whole discussion began when you said, Thats true but cops like that idiot who beat up that girl in the bar give a lot of them a bad name. Honestly, despite them risking their lives at work, with all the corruption Ive seen personally and all the stories that come out every day about cops abusing their power i really could give a shit. As a whole they are the most corrupt people in the world. and then continued later, I didnt say theyre all like that. However, there are enough corrupt ones to give the group a bad name. I personally have seen off duty cops driving drunk, rear end someone, kick the shit out of him and then have other cops come and arrest him for resisting arrest. Theres the story about the cop who beat up that tiny bartender in Chicago and then had other cops go in their and threaten her. There was that video that surfaced less than a year ago where a kid actually put a camera in his car because he was getting harassed by cops and then he actually got the cop on camera threatening him. Giving people the kind of power police officers have is very dangerous and when there are so many examples of the power being abused it is very easy to lose sympathy for the group as a whole and thats the point I am at. I know theyre not all like that but until something is done to try and clean it up thats how I choose to perceive it. At 4:55 yesterday, an hour after telling me to drop the subject, you said, Those were just a few examples. If you like Im sure I can type "police officer corruption" into google and give you a few thousand examples very easily. Not exactly words of a poster looking to drop a topic. Then after basically starting the topic, telling me to drop it, then talking about it again, you go back to telling a poster to drop it, The argument about police isnt even the topic of the thread. Lets just stick to the topic. Sorry, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either drop the topic and just leave it alone, or stop telling posters to drop the topic.

Doubt it. While most every incident of police corruption, abuse, or the like, gets top billing on the news, police bravery (an everyday event) gets little media. Far too great of a search project for me, but I would bet the negative stories in the media far outweigh the positive. That doesn't mean there are more negative than positive in real life, only showing what the media chooses to reflect. Complete turd? Have to say, I think that is a bit much. Not the player we all wanted? No argument. Has issues? Fine. But complete turd? Since joining the team, has he ever been in trouble w/ the law? Does he do what the staff tell him? Does he attend voluntary workouts and the like? Whether true or not, he felt when he joined the team as the hated guy there to take the job away from a popular veteran. Instead of going out of his way to make friends, he closed himself off, and that only made the situation worse. Many/most of his stupid comments go back to that, IMHO. But I also would argue we have seen his maturity grow. When he was on the sidelines in games last year, I saw him jumping around like a cheer leader. I have heard him defend the OL, when he at one time would have not. I have read stories of his doing things w/ players, social, he never would have before. Complete turd? Sorry, but on a team w/ plenty of turds, I do not agree Benson is one. Bad w/ the media. Sure. But a complete turd? No. IMHO, the team has plenty of "popular" players who are far closer to the complete turd definition than Benson. As to your point though about who fans believe. First, I would argue few I have read simply believe Benson's story 100%. Not even close IMHO. I think there are a group defending Benson who feel the police officers comments/actions raise some questions, and thus are taking a wait and see approach. Others are not willing to allow time to sort things out. It is a police officer v Benson, a bust, and Benson should be released immediately. I do not believe everything Benson has said, but nor do I buy the officers version 100% either. I absolutely put more weight in the officers word, at least initially, but upon reading all the reports, I simply begin to question some things. So I do not simply take Benson's word over an officers. On the other hand, I have questions regarding the officers actions/words as well, which has me simply wanting to see what further info comes out.

Yes, I meant Alex Brown. Damn. Talk about head up arce syndrome.

I always liked that plan, but tell me this. Which would be better. For the player to be under Rusty or go off on their own w/ an independent outfit/trainer? Here is how I would rank the options, w/ #1 being best. 1. Stay in Chicago, and workout under strict guidance of Rusty. 2. Workout w/ an independant trainer/company approved by Rusty. 3. Workout on your own using a program drawn up by Rusty. 4. Workout w/ an independant trainer/company not approved by Rusty. 5. Workout on your own, w/o a trainer or Rusty provided guide. Basically, go to the gym and workout to try and stay in shape. 6. Do little to nothing in the offseason, believing that is what camp is for.

I wasn't 100% on the starts, but point is still he had 4 years to Benson's two, and IMHO, DT had more opportunites to step up. We were desperate for a WR back then, and there was no one standing in his way but himself. Like you said, he was sharing time w/ Dez White. Benson on the other hand came to a team w/ a solid RB. When he finally got his chance, he ran behind a garbage OL. To be honest, I am surprised in your take on this. You were never a big Benson fan, but prior to the draft, you were adamant that you believe upgrading the OL would see a big boost in Benson's play. You said that by upgrading the OL, you believe Benson could be a very good RB. So while many others already wanted to just cut Benson, and see this as another reason to do so, you (I don't believe) were in that camp, and yet you feel we should cut ties, or am I misunderstanding. Even if everything the police said is true, I am still not in favor of releasing him. He would be way in the wrong, but at the same time, is what he did really that much worse than what some others did. I still view Briggs issue as worse, though I admit that is w/o evidence. In my eyes, the only reason for Briggs to flee the scene was he was drunk. Driving drunk is FAR worse in my eyes than Benson partying w/ his family. Even the police issue, when did he put the public or anyone in harms way, as did Briggs IMHO. Now if Benson were in fact driving the boat drunk, then my tune would be different.

Benson aside, I would love to read how many players do stick around Chicago in the offseason and are part of Rusty's program. Too often in sport I read about players doing it on there own, and too often the results are not good. It doesn't always mean the player didn't try, but make a poor decision in not allowing the teams expert to manage. An example I always think about, while not even football, is the White Sox Jenks. Last year, he showed up to the Sox camp not in the sort of shape the team wanted. It wasn't that he slacked in the offseason, but he put himself on a strengthening program, which tightened him up too much, not good for a pitcher who needs to be loose. I would bet Benson did workout in the offseason on his own, and felt he was doing what the staff wanted in gaining weight. He made a stupid decision in not working w/ Rusty, but at the same time, that does not mean he simply dismissed the staff's desires to add weight and bulk up. So I fault Benson for not working w/ the team, but credit him for adding weight as the team asked. I think Alex Smith is another example to use. Brown spent an offseason adding to his weight after the team asked him to get bigger, only to drop weight a year later after his new size didn't work. I think similar happened w/ Daniels, who the team asked to drop weight, which didn't work, and he then had to put it back on.

Cracks me up you say AP is a very good blocker. IMHO, he flat out sucked last year. Benson missed assignments by blocking to the wrong side, but while AP knew where to block, he could not block his man. I watched AP do one of two things last year. He either tried to block high, and got bulled over, or he went for the pass rushers knees and the rusher just leaped over him. Prior to last year, I thought AP was supposed to be a good blocker, but I tried to take more notice last year, and simply never saw anything close. IMHO, AP is a worse blocker than Benson. Also sort of cracks me up how you say AP is solid overall. I believe he had the same 3.4 ypc average you bash Benson for. If the OL is not an excuse for Benson, should it be for AP. AP has had 6 seasons in the NFL, w/ the same team, and despite what fans want to believe, is simply a backup. Nothing more. He is a good receiving back, I have no problem giving him that, but if Wolfe is as advertised, does AP give you anything in that regard? AP is a special teams standout, but as a RB, he just is not that much to speak of. He was a solid receiving option out of the backfield, but if Wolfe steps up, how would AP fit in.

Couple points. Terrell had 4 years w/ the Bears to Benson's three. Terrell also had two full seasons as a starter, to Benson's one. Not every player breaks out right away. In fact, the GREAT Thomas Jones was labeled a total bust after his first three years. Think Az would like to have his services back. While not a success story, Rex hasn't seem to "get it" after 5 years, and yet the team is giving him yet another chance. Bradley has had two years and shown even less than Benson, and is not only getting another shot, but the staff even talked about him as a starter. Point is, I think is wrong to simply assume a player has no shot because he didn't earn his stripes sooner. Finally, I think you sort of avoid the point. Maybe he will not get better, but as mentioned above, some players do get better and our staff seems all about continuing to give players a chance to prove themselves. I just do not see the point in not waiting a couple more months to find out. If he doesn't "cut it" at camp, then you cut him. No questions asked. But I just do not see the point is cutting him now. Again, as said before, you need more than just 3 RBs heading into camp. Too often a player gets injured, and you need that 4th RB. Also, as we have too often seen, that well hyped rookie doesn't turn into the stud fans expected. Give Benson the rope to hang himself. If he sucks and will always suck, as you say, then he is gone. So one but Benson is hurt. But if he does step up, or Forte doesn't, then we have a solid option still on the roster, rather than hoping to find scraps off the waiver wire to fill out the roster.

The question is what was aggressive? Was Benson shoved in the back (to direct him of coarse) and Benson turned around, thus was aggressive? I wasn't there, I have no problem w/ you simply believing the cop. That's fine. I simply am not as quick to believe either. I want to read more facts. Frankly, even if the facts come out against Benson, I am not totally sure it will matter. I do not see anything happening for a while. He has a hear date set in a couple weeks, but that I assume is a simple trial setting, or the like. I doubt anything like a trial will happen for a while. Guilty until proven innocent, right? Yea, right. For me, I still look at it this way. At worst, the Cop is 100% truthful, and Benson is hit w/ 2 class B misdemeanors. We have let players ride for wose, and while you can say we are trying to change, I do not agree that we are. At the same time, if it is deemed Benson is not just lying about everything, this could be all about nothing. I still think he goes to camp and competes. Either he does well and has a spot on the roster, or he doesn't and is gone. Pretty much that simple, and IMHO, the way it should be.

Hey, I understand what you are saying. To be honest, when I first heard the story, I automatically assumed he was drunk and hauling A on his boat. But the more I read the more I questioned. His boat was at anchor, and not moving. There is no evidence Benson was driving drunk, or intending to drive drunk. He owned the boat, but that does not mean he is the only one that could drive it. While it was first reported about how he was partying w/ friends, you then begin to read he was w/ family and friends, including his mother. Sorry, but maybe this is w/o reason, but to me that makes a difference. If he were just out at his old college stomping grounds w/ a bunch of friends, I would be more prone to disbelieve him, but out w/ a bunch of family and his mother? I just have a hard time seeing him getting shit-faced w/ his mom and all. Maybe. But I think this does put the story a bit more in question. Also, I wonder about the statement that he has been boarded every time he has taken his boat out. Thousands of boats go out, and a small percentage actually get boarded. To get boarded every time out (if that is true) again, just raises questions. I do not fully believe Benson. At the same time, there simply a lot about this story that makes me feel like there is more to it. Back to the "presented himself in an aggressive manner" I believe the cop when he said he gently touched Benson to steer him in a direction about as much as I believe Benson when he said he continued to be polite through out the incident. I have a feeling, just my own, that Benson was likely drunk and not extremely cooperative, which is not good, yet at the same time also believe the cop was likely considerably over-aggressive in his actions dealing w/ Benson.

I have no problem w/ a team trying. At the same time, we took some character flags in the draft, which just happened. That is why I again have to call out the staff if they cut Benson due to this incident. If you want to erase troubled past, and cut ties w/ Benson, fine. But drafting character flags a week earlier? Sort of mixed messages there. Agree 100%. I do not buy 100% Benson's angelic story. I would have much preferred if he came out and said he was drinking, and may have been intoxicated, but had a designated driver, which is all too possible w/ a bunch of family on the boat. To say he wasn't drunk, after refusing a breath test, and saying he was soooo polite the entire time is a bit much for me. At the same time, it also seems like the police were a little too quick to take it to an un-necessary level. I don't know about this one. While I can see Drake sticking up for Benson, at the same time, he alluded to the LCRA police having a potential reputation/history, which is totally un-necessary to simply stand up for Benson. That isn't defensive, but offenseive. I have no reason to disbelieve him if he makes that statement.

Gracias. That is why it is killing me that so many bears fans are saying we should cut Benson due to this incident, and then sign Rhode. The only upgrade I see is in rap sheet.

Miami, In Grouchy's defense, did you read the comment he was responding too? I don't think he is saying all police are perfect, but he was replying to the comment, "As a whole they are the most corrupt people in the world.", said in reference to police. I bet he would agree many cops are bad apples, and that too often those bad apples spoil the look of the bunch, yet at the same time to catagorically say police are the most corrupt people is in the world is a bit extreme, to say the least. I would put politicians well ahead of the police Regarding our very own boating incident, I too tend to believe/dis-believe both sides. I have a hard time believing Benson was soooo polite after getting pepper sprayed and abused (his allegation). At the same time, the officers version seems riddled w/ holes/question marks that just beg for further review. For me, one of the biggest things I come back to is Benson's family and even mother were on the boat. My initial thoughts were of Leinart, partying w/ a bunch of minors near his old stomping ground. In that situation, I think a person is simply more likely to act far more irresponsible and immature. Basically, back to college mentality days. On the other hand, you are on a boat w/ some friends and family, including your mother, and it is to me simply different. While some would not see the difference, I have a difficult time seeing him just getting trashed and out of control w/ his mom there, not to mention other family. For the record, I have met his mother. I sat next to her during a Bear/Texas pre-season game last year. She was extremely friendly. Not saying I "know" her, but she did not seem like the type that would be getting drunk w/ her boy.