nfoligno

What if neither (Rex/Orton) prove that good this year, and as a team, we are not winning. At the end of the season, would it not make more sense to give a couple starts to one of the rookies to see what they can do, rather than simply continue to throw Rex/Orton out there if we are out of the playoff hunt? I agree Orton has been more durable, but at the same time, while he may not have the questions of health, he does have the question of ability. I would love nothing more than to actually have one QB start every game this year, or have a 2nd w/ a couple short term starts. But I still think our history points to a 3rd QB getting PT or even a start. I would further argue that, while we have made improvements, our OL is still a big question mark, and that can lead to more QB changes, and in a hurry.

IMHO, we have seen numerous changes w/ Benson this year. His quotes are not to the level that many fans want to hear. Unless Benson came out and said, "I have sucked. I have been a bust for this team. No one is to blame by myself. My time w/ the team is not over, and I will use whatever opportunities remain to prove myself". Short of this, I do not believe most fans would be satisified w/ anything he says, but also would add that no player would go to the point most fans want. Benson did seem to be putting more on himself than I believe he has said in the past. That is a step. While I agree the the sentiment that he needs to backup whatever comments he makes, I would add that his actions on the field thus far do seem to support a turnaround. By showing up to camp, he showed an obvious level of offseason conditioning he has not shown in the past. That is action supporting a turnaround. By all reports, he has been running faster and w/ more attitude in camp. That again, is action supporting a turnaround. I agree we still need to see more, as he has not put the pads on, but I would argue that thus far, his actions have supported his turnaround comments. He simply needs to continue.

I think Hester will have around 45 catches, but for 800+ yards. I think his will show inconsistency this year as a WR, but at the same time, will have a very high ypc average.

There was a year, maybe 2000, when Simms went down during a blowout when he was playing awful, w/ a questionable injury, and Applewhite came in. I think it was against Colorado. Major led a comeback that fell short, but was considered a game hero, and got the start in their bowl game, which he won. But Simms had already played and lost to Oklahoma, and got the starting nod the next year. Major led Texas over Oklahoma in 98 and 99, only to lose his job to the more highly touted Simms, who was never able to beat Oklahoma. I looked it up. Texas, under Major, beat Oklahoma 34-3 and 38-28. Texas lost to Oklahoma under Simms, 63-14 and 14-3. That 14-3 doesn't look like a blowout, but Simms had 5 turnovers and killed the team. Also in that game, Simms stood at his own 2 yard line, and under pressure, tossed a pick to Teddy Lehman, who basically stepped into the endzone to finalize the game. Simms had the name. He had the pedigree. He had the size and the arm strength. What he lacked was the head and heart. Simms racked up a great win/loss record trouncing weaker opponents, only to lose to ranked teams, and was owned by Oklahoma who would blitz him w/o mercy knowing he was not capable of making plays under pressure. In the NFL, the only change I have seen from Simms is a greater injury history. Otherwise, he is the same player he was in college. If it were not for his last name and size, he I question whether he would even be considered an NFL QB at this point, backup or starter.

Based on our history alone, I would say not only is it likely both start at some point this year, but would add it is likely one of the undrafted QBs get a start as well.

I think it is more a simple acknowledgment that many QBs look good in practice, but only in games do you get a true picture. While preseason games are not equal to regular season, they are a step above practice. So how each QB looks when they get starts in preseason games will go a LONG way toward deciding who is our starting QB. I think a decision is made no later than the 3rd preseason game. The 4th game is worthless, as most teams do not keep starters in for more than a series or two at the most, as they are simply trying to avoid injuries. I think each QB gets a start in the 1st two games, and the one who looks better starts the 3rd. If that QB looks good again, he is the starter for the season.

That is possible. If you were to play Vasher and McBride, we would have a pair of starting CBs at 5'10 and 5'9. Ouch. At the same time, I would think you simply put in there the best player. Size aside, if McBride is better, I would think he would start over Graham. So while it could be many things, that Graham is getting reps starting seems like a good thing to me.

Not sure. Its being reported Tillman and Briggs were excused. Tillman for family matters, and Briggs to attend a funeral. I did not read about McBride.

IMHO, I think his injuries last year made him think about his future. While he is saying he is healthy, and that he will play for however long, I think his injuries last year were a bit of a slap in the face that his career may not last as long as he would like. IMHO, he wants to hit one final payday, and that means guaranteed money, now before he does go down for good, or his play goes downhill due to injuries. But while I believe that is his reason for suddenly wanting a new deal, at the same time, it is also a key reason why I do not believe we should be throwing guaranteed money at him. He is coming off a sub-par year, as is the entire defense. He is hitting an age when you often see a dropoff in play, and is coming off an injury riddled year. And that injury wasn't a simple "break", but an injuries labeled chronic, which implies it could return and/or be something he has to deal w/ in order to continue playing. Due to that, I question handing him a big guaranteed payday. IMHO, what Angelo offered was MORE than fair. He offered Urlacher some upfront guaranteed money, and additionally added some roster bonuses for each of his remaining years, thus providing the bears w/ some security if he doesn't last, and Urlacher w/ extra financial paydays if he does. Seemed like a good deal all around to me.

I have not seen this talked about, but w/ Tillman out the last couple days, Graham, not McBride, was getting the start. Does this not surprise anyone else? McBride is not injured, is he? McBride developed quicker than Graham, but Graham was the more highly touted prospect. Man, that would be a huge lift to our secondary depth if Graham were able to step up, while also having McBride.

I consider him a poor man's Ronnie Lott. If he'd have been healthy all of his career, I'm convinced he could be a HoF candidate. The player I tend to compare him to is Mike Singletary. I know it is a different position, but I still see the similarities. Like Singletary, Brown is not one of the best pure athletes, but each were very smart players, and always around the ball. And like Singletary, Brown makes those around him better. Urlacher makes those around him better because he is simply so good, but Brown is more of a leader who helps get players into the right position. He is the guy he can read an offense, and let those around him know what is coming. The Mikes are not on the same level. I know that. Legends were made of how QBs would break from the huddle, line up, and then hear Singletary calling out the plays and adjusting the defense as if he were sitting in the huddle. QBs would have told stories of this, and how deflating it would be to step up to the line, only to have the defense calling out the play. Brown is not equal, but IMHO, is presense has a similar effect.

The thing everybody brings up is that Rex does not step into the pocket but retreats under pressure. So obviously he sees it if he is retreating. Plus I think he got into some bad habits because of the pressure coming from the middle. Hard to step up when it it into pressure I would argue part of the problem w/ Rex is that he see's the pressure so late, he has few options to to simply retreat. If you see or feel the pressure sooner, you have more options, but Rex doesn't seem to see or feel the pressure soon enough. I just haven't seen Kyle do enough to annoint him this "pocket wizard". I have seen instances where he was rattled by pressure as well and thrown bad balls. Hang on. I don't think anyone has called him a pocket wizard, only that he has shown more pocket presense than Rex. That may well be like saying he is the biggest guy in a room full of midgets. I have seen him get raddled, sure. But I have simply seen more out of him in this area than Rex. Now a QB can have all the pocket presense in the world, but if he doesn't have the rest of the game, it doesn't matter. Orton still has so much to prove. Key for me is, whenever he has been in the game, we have seemed to dumb down the offense and get more conservative. That is fine for a game or two, but I do not think we can go the entire year w/ this game plan. So for Orton to win the job, he has to show he can play in a more open offense. Orton has plenty to prove, and you can even argue more than Rex. I have no idea whether or not he is capable. IMHO, most positive talk of Orton has more to do w/ negative feelings toward Rex, then sheer optimisim in Orton.

IMHO, for most, I think it comes down to pocket presence, which can not always be seen on the stat sheet. Rex simply doesn't seem to be able to see, much less feel the pressure. I have seen blitzed come right up the middle, in front of Rex, and he appears to not see the blitz until the last second. When the pressure is on the outside, it is worse. Orton simply seem more capable of seeing and sensing that pressure, and doing more than running backward to avoid it. That does not mean Orton is a better QB. IMHO, he has plenty to prove. But that pocket sense is why I think many want to see more of Orton.

A key for me is I want the staff to let Orton truly play the offense. No more holding him back and asking him to dink and dunk. Open up the offense w/ him under center. I have no clue if he can do this, but I think he has to show his ability in an opened up offense in order to win the job.

Agreed on Brown. Prior to last year, he was our best OL and did not show signs of age. Last year, he stunk, but then it was reported he was playing w/ one arm. The sad thing was, the staff believed a one armed Brown was better than alternative options. Not that option (Metcalf) is set to start. That is sad. I think we will wait until we get through some OTAs and practices to take a look at the young, and assuming none jump out, we could then take a look at Brown. The other thing to consider w/ regard to Brown is Williams. Having a solid veteran like Brown at LG would help Williams are great deal IMHO. If Brown is healthy, I think he would be a great addition.

Disagree. I have followed him throughout college, and the impression I had in college has seemed true in the NFL as well. If he is not pressured, he can be a solid QB. But under pressure, he is weak. Oklahoma owned him, and that reason was they knew he folded under pressure. Every year, Oklahoma would send everyone at Simms and basically say, "beat us". He could not do it. In the NFL, to me, his play has been the same. When he is pressured, he folds. IMHO, we already have a QB on the roster that fits this description.

I don't know about running great routes but this pretty much fits into what I always thought Muhammad was about. The Bears might miss him more than most fans think. Muhammad may have been singed in part to serve as mentor to younger Carolina receivers like Dwayne Jarrett, something he also did in Chicago. One. If we had not signed Booker, as low as my opinion of Moose is, I might agree, but I do not believe Moose brought anything to the table that Booker can not/does not offer. Two. I still disagree Moose did jack to mentor the younger bear WRs, and I would argue that if you take a look at the development process of the WRs we have had over the years, it does little to offer support to the idea Moose helped young Bear WRs develop. That isn't to say Moose was the reason they did not develop, only to argue against the idea his presence helped.

I have been ripping Urlacher, and the rest of those who are making massive demands and complaints, but I have held back on Hester. While I disagree w/ giving him what he "reportedly" is seeking, at the same time, he has simply not been out-spoken in the process. Even the big articles that were written a month or so ago were not based on what he said, but what Deion Sanders said. I have no problem w/ him believing he deserves more money, or that he is seeking to get paid that money. The keys are (a) showing up and ( not making it a distraction. Thus far, he seems to be doing the right thing. Maybe Urlacher should be taking notice.

Because we reached for him:) I guess it is time to take that off. Frankly, I didn't realize I still had it there.

Agreed. This is about guaranteed money, and frankly, I think the team has been MORE than fair. I think people forget that Urlacher was the first player the bears signed who still had 2 years remaining on a rookie deal. Not only did they re-sign him, but gave him the largest contract ever for a bear, and up there among the rest of the league's elite. Now, w/ several years to go, and coming off a year riddled w/ injury, the bears none-the-less stepped up and offered more money, both in guarantee and additional yearly money. They didn't simply tie the money to incentives, but flat out offered the money per year. IMHO, the team has been more than fair. And I don't get comment about "Urlacher stepping up". What has he done. He has shown up to MANDATORY practices.

Here is another site which provides a solid tool. http://www.drafthistory.com/teams_by_year.html You can sort by team, year, round, position, college, etc.

It's too bad we can not employ some mad scientist to create a combo of the two. From Orton, I would want his size and pocket awareness. From Rex, his arm and leadership. Then again, if we could employ a mad scientist to create a QB, I have to believe we could find better QBs to pick parts from.

While I voted for the first option, I also think he could hold out part of training camp.

I question how much of that is due to Moose. In 2004, the year before Moose arrived, consider what we had at WR and QB. That year, Hutch, Krenzel, Quinn and Rex all started games. Now that is the definition of ugly. Further, at WR, we had the likes of Wade, Terrell, Gage and though we had Berrian, he was a rookie who I think also struggled w/ injury that first year. In 2005, we added Moose, but also had one QB (Orton) starting most of the year, which is better than rotating between 4 QBs. At WR, how much did Moose really help? Moose had 64-750, and was just about our only option. Gage was our 2nd leading WR, w/ a whopping 31 catches for 346 yards. Berrian didn't develop very quickly that year, and no other WR did anything to speak of. So while we did benefit from Moose, how much was simply because he was the lesser of evils. It isn't like he did anything much that year, and I sure don't see how he helped our other WRs. In 2006, we had a better passing game, but was Moose really the reason? Rex played the entire season, while in itself may have been the biggest reason. Further, while Berrian did far better, it was also his 3rd year, which is when many WRs develop. Not much from the other WRs, and only Clark did anything as a receiver. So while Moose was on the team, to me, it had more to do w/ Rex starting a full season and Berrian being in his 3rd year, rather than Moose helping. In 2007, Berrian continued to develop (at least statistically) but the rest of the passing offense was backward, Moose included. I simply do not see how Moose benefited this team. He had his share of catches, but I am not sure that is really a testiment to his providing solid play, or providing leadership. No matter how bad your starting WR is, he is going to get some catches. For me, I look at it this way. How much did Moose really help the QB? Well, leading the league in drops does little to help the QB. While he would like to blame the QB on his low numbers, how much better would his numbers, and the QBs, have been if he did a better job catching the ball. How much did he help the other WRs? Berrian developed while Moose was there, but (a) would he not have developed w/o Moose and ( was his development at such a level as to really credit Moose. His development seemed slow and his play this past year seemed to actually go backward. Leadership - Moose was a litle to quick to throw the QBs under the bus. He preferred to blame the young QBs, rather than take blame on himself. I will never forget the game where he had numerous drops, and then said Orton wasn't putting the ball where it should have been. Well, maybe the passes were not perfect, but when they bounce off your hands, they should be catches, and blaming a rookie QB for not being perfect, while not taking blame yourself is far from the leadership I want to see.

It's a fair answer but, of course, inadequate. Pre-season games actually won't go that far in alleviating this concern because defenses are typically vanilla and there aren't many blitzes. As I've said before, I believe this job is Grossman's to lose and that Orton will need to be decidedly better to beat him out. This is one more reason why he might not be able to show it even if he is. While most teams do not throw complicated blitzes at QBs in preseason, I would argue there is still a big difference. A QB in camp knows that, even if his OT misses the block, he has that red jersey on and the DE will do no more than play some touch football w/ him. Therefor, the QB has no concern about the pass rush. The fear element is simply taken out. In a preseason game, while the level of pressure is not the same as in the regular season, there is regardless that potential fear factor as the DE will not be playing touch football. So while it may not be a full test, it is still a far better test than in camp. I do agree this is Rex' job to lose, and feel he is not likely to lose it. Rex often looks good in practice, as that fear factor is taken out. And before I get ripped by Rex fans, it isn't so much fear as much as an ability to feel pressure and make a play under pressure. If he doesn't have to worry about pressure (camp/practice) then he is usually a solid looking QB. But in preseason games, he does have to concern himself w/ pressure, and thus the test is on a greater level. So I think Rex likely has the leg up going into preseason games, but Orton does have a chance to make up ground once those games begin.