nfoligno

I think you may have misunderstood the post. I don't think you were being told not to bash the staff. I think the point being made was simply that many are bashing the coaches, but maybe we should bash the players too. Frankly, after a loss like the last, and the downhill turn of this team over the last few years, everyone from the Prez to the waterboy can and should take some bashing. In terms of leadership, I think that comment goes back to a thread which comes up fairly often, and which I often champion myself. Most every great defense I can ever think of has leadership on the field. Even the best defensive coaches need leaders on the field to carry out their orders. I have argued in the past that, even when we had talent, we lacked leadership, and I am not talking about "lead by example" leaders, but field generals. Mike Brown was the closest thing we have had in recent history, and even he was quite a few years ago as he said himself he stopped being a leader after the injuries and didn't have confidence in himself to continue the part. I think most are calling out the staff, and rightfully so. I think the post you responded to simply was saying the players need to feel the heat as well.

Regarding the OT swap. Would a move for Williams now be that different than if we had started him at LT in the beginning? Our signing of Pace was fairly late, and the plan/prep for Williams prior to that was on the left side. Further, if Pace went down, don't you think we would move Williams? I would argue that, while Pace may be healthy, his play has been so bad we can treat it similar to there being an injury there. Williams has struggled on the right side, so I understand the thinking that he could struggle even worse on the left. My rationale is this. - I believe a big part of Williams struggles on the right side are power based. I have seen him eaten alive by the bull rush. This was a knock coming out of college, and I think is still a problem today. He is getting beaten at times on the outside/edge too, but I think that is due to first being set up w/ the power/bull rushes. Now, I am not saying RDEs are weak, but they are usually not as powerful as the LDEs, so the left side may simply be a better fit for him. - I also think the move could benefit Pace. For me, Pace has been the opposite. Pace has done better than i think most realize when opponents try to simply bull rush him. Pace's key problem is, IMHO, he just doesn't have the footspeed he used to. He is getting beaten off the snap, and DEs are turning the corner too quickly on him. He just does not have the quickness, burst or athleticism to play against those speed rushers on the right side anymore. A move to the left could really benefit him at this stage of his career. Baltimore felt the same way. If just one of the two played better, wouldn't that still be a significant improvement? Right now, I would argue we suck at both tackle positions. Some would argue "suck" is too strong of a term, but I don't think so. I think they have been consistently beaten and just bad. I believe only Omiyale playing so bad has saved their image a tad. If the swap saw just one of the two improve, and we had one side solidified, that would be a pretty big upgrade in my eyes. If neither work out after the swap, then so what. It can't get much worse. And we might know a bit more about the long term potential of Williams at LT if we give him a 1/2 season to work their now. W/o making the move, and not considering short term issues, I would argue we only hurt ourselves moving forward. Right now, I think most would agree Pace is one and done. We are going to need another OT next year. If we make the move now, we may at least know if we have a LT on the roster. If we don't, we are only guessing.

To be fair, while I have been among the many calling for Beekman to start for a while, I don't knock Turner for being publically supportive of Omiyale, while at the same time benching him. Omiyale bombed, but he is young and was only a couple months ago given a nice enough contract from us. Even though we are sitting him, you can bet there are still hoped he can develop. Now, Turner got a little silly and went too far in his comments, but did anyone really expect any from our staff to say, "Omiyale sucks. Probably wouldn't start for more HS junior varsity teams."

I am sure you were, but that is less likely than a change to our scheme Besides, what is the point of listing the coaching I would change. I would just write the phrase, "all of them" and be done w/ it. I went ahead and edited it though so others don't get their hopes up

Personnel changes I would like to see: I should first point out that for many of these changes, there is no chance, while others have already been announced. Still, this is a list of moves I think should be considered or done. Also, while scheme and playcalling could add to this list, I am just looking at personnel changes. Offense: - Flip flop Pace and Williams. Williams was expected to play LT this year until we brought in a former pro bowler, and Williams was moved to RT w/ the belief that we added a player too good not to start at LT. Well, that is far from the case. To me, there is no reason to continue wasting potential developmental time for Williams at LT. Further, I would argue such a switch may better match the two players to their strengths. - Beekman for Omiyale - Frankly, Beekman should have never lost his job, as few felt Omiyale won it in camp. - Clark starts in place of Olsen - I would still play Olsen a lot, but he has simply not stepped up his game this year. His blocking is still poor, and hurting both our QB and RBs. Clark would be an upgrade here. Further, Olsen has dropped too many. Clark may not be the potential playmaker Olsen is, but at this point, I think he is more reliable. Again, I would still use Olsen plenty, and would like to see him outside more, but I would start Clark. - I debated Knox as a starter, but still like him in the slot and don't want to put too much on the rookie. Also, I don't think Bennett has played poorly, and has been a good receiver for Cutler. I also debated McKie, but the problem is, stats show Forte is a better runner w/ a lead blocker. I would like to have a better FB, but I can only move around personnel we have. Defense: - Stick w/ Adams over Harrison. I say this because I think we are about to see Harrison get the starting nod over Adams with Harris back in the lineup. I just don't feel Harrison has earned it, and further, Adams is more solid vs the run, which we saw in Cincy, is an area we can not afford to so easily give up. - Hunter to MLB and Roach to SLB, which reportedly will happen. I think few would question Roach is more talented, but he just seems mentally slow on the field, which negates his athleticism too much. I think Hunter is a better leader in the middle. - Graham in for Bowman - To this day I do not understand our attitude for Graham. Bowman has been pretty bad, and far worse than I recall Graham being last year. I would insert Graham at CB. - DM moves to nickel. Lets get back to what worked. DM was a very good nickel last year. While I do not think he has been awful at FS, he hasn't done anything that good either to speak of. I would put him back at nickel where (a) he has shown his best play and ( to a position that moves him closer to the LOS, giving us a good blitz option as he has shown to be one of our best blitzers. - Vasher to FS - I know this move was tried a bit this last game, and many will balk, but why not. I am not sure Vasher would be worse than DM, and may even give us something we haven't gotten thus far. Payne goes to the bench, and sits there. We have a better option at SS in Afalava, and he is simply not good in coverage, thus isn't an effective FS.

I know you were not called me out, but wanted to respond anyway. I do believe some are a bit quick to look for any reason to bash him, while also being a tad slow to give him credit when deserved. At the same time, I also think some give him a little to much benefit of doubt and blind trust. You say he is trying to shild players and take the blame, which he has done in the past. Maybe, but he has also thrown players (as a whole) under the bus in the past. While he is willing to shoulder blame, IMHO, he often would throw players under the bus in order to take heat off Babich. So many times after a game I heard Lovie say the problem was in execution, and specifically say the scheme (his) and playcalling (babich) were fine. I don't know that Lovie is trying to be noble and protecting the players. I think he is just pissed off. I think he is pissed the team is losing. I think he is pissed everything isn't going as planned. But right now, I think he is pissed because (I believe) Angelo has gone to Lovie and told Lovie to make some changes that Lovie may not want to make. And when the media presses him about such changes, he doesn't want to talk about it because he is still pissed about for having to do it.

By the way, I commend the Bears for going to Beekman, hopefully it helps. Huh? You commend the bears for making a move most have called for for weeks? I am not just talking about us board yahoos, but the media, as well as the analyists, many of who are ex-players, coaches, etc. A guy is sitting reading a book in the evening. As it gets darker outside, it becomes harder and harder to read. After about an hour of squinting his eyes to read the words, producing an splitting headache, he finally gets up and turns on the light. Would you commend him for turning on the light? This is a move that was expected. It is a move that has been called for the last several weeks. I do not commend that at all for the move. Yea, I am glad it happened, but no way I will commend them for finally making a move that is over-due.

Sorry, I just think he comes off looking foolish. If Urlacher was down w/ a minor injury, and there was question whether or not he could/would play, I can see the reason for deception. If Forte, or a weapon on offense is question, fine. But do you honestly believe Cle alters their prep based on whether Omiyale or Beekman play? Seriously, for Cle's camp, this just doesn't seem like an issue that matters for them. The idea we gain an advantage because of the deception is a joke. To me, it isn't even about the deception of it. You read/listen to the press conference. Lovie doesn't sound to me like someone strategically choosing to keep something secret. He sounds like an upset kid pouting. "I don't want to talk about it" Why? Because I don't." I can just picture Lovie then telling all he would hold his breath until they stopped asking such questions, with his face puffed way out.

I am sure Lovie cares. He doesn't show it, which makes it look worse, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care. After the GB game, Cutler was shredded for his press conference where he "appeared" apathetic. I think most would agree he cared, and was very unhappy w/ both his performance and the loss in general, but he just didn't show it, and was blasted for it. Similarly, I am sure Lovie does care, but people are going to go off on him for not showing that emotion enough. For me, there are plenty of issues to bash Lovie w/o questioning whether or not he cares. I think he cares, but what I question is whether he can do anything about it. As for the players no longer buying into the system, to be honest, I am not sure they ever did. Urlacher was always pretty vocal about his feelings of the system. He just never liked it. I have also heard Vasher and Alex Brown flat out bash the hell out of the system. I recall also Idonije questiongin the system, though he tried to backtrack after realizing what he was doing.

This staff has never liked Beekman, at least not in regard to playing OG. Last year, in camp, I recall our staff being asked about Beekman playing OG. At the time, we had not suffered all the injuries, and Beekman was not even getting a look at OG. Our staff said very flatly that he didn't have the size to play OG. When injuries forced the issue, the staff still never really backed him, and continued to talk about Beekman as no more than a short term bandaid at OG, continuing to point to his size. Then Beekman plays the entire season, and while not great, not our weak link on the OL either. Yet sure enough, his position was among our key areas to address in the offseason. They talked about how it was a competition, but was it really? Every reporter who attended camp talked about how well Beekman was playing, and how poorly Omiyale looked, and yet the staff still gave Omiyale the start. Since game one, Omiyale has stunk. He has a play here or there in the run game where the flat out blows up his man, but those plays are very few and far between. Yet the staff was still VERY slow to make the change. Even now, as shown in these statements, it just does not seem like our staff likes Beekman, at least not as an OG.

Frankly, you can look past two years. Shea was Lovie's pick by all reports, and he was an utter failure. The only coordinator that saw success was Rivera, and every report shows Rivera was essentially forced on Lovie, and he let him go as soon as possible, promoting his friend, who bombed. Beyond just the coordinators, Lovie was also responsible for the assistants we have brought in, and our firing basically everyone on defense last year has to be an indictment on Lovie.

Honestly, I can not agree w/ all this. While I am not going to say our OL was great, I would say that our OL when Benson was here was better than it is today, and actually pretty good for a while. Kreutz was still pro bowl. Ruben Brown had not yet begun to suffer the injuries. Tait was still solid. The OL Benson ran behind was not nearly as bad as we have had the last two years. Also, regardless of the OL, Benson simply is a totally different player today than he was w/ us. Just look at him. By all reports, the guy is fairly ripped now, as opposed to when he was here, and he appeared to even have some baby fat. His workout habbits today are far superior to what they were w/ us. He is far more in condition, and frankly, has shown more burst and speed than he ever did w/ us. Back to the OL though. Lets not pretend our OL was any good last year. Better than this year? Sure. But last year's OL was pretty bad, but we had a RB in Forte that could simply do more w/ less. If Benson were our starter last year, I do not believe he would have done well, and would not have won the respect and love of his fellow teamates. Thus he would still be miserable, and the circle would continue. Simply put, he was miserable w/ us, and is happy w/ Cincy. When you are happy at your job and enjoy what you are doing, your productivity simply goes up. Benson was never happy w/ the Bears. I would also point out that we just didn't/don't run a blocking scheme that was right for Benson. Our scheme is better designed for a RB like TJ or Forte, but not so much for a pure downhill runner like Benson. I blame many for Benson's failure w/ the bears, and w/o question that included Benson. I think our staff is to blame as well, and further, I blame our players and leadership (or lack thereof). It is typical to have a veteran in place, yet to draft a high draft pick. Usually what you read about is the veterans taking the rook under the wing and helping him, but by all accounts, it seemed like the opposite happened. Frankly, I put a lot of it on TJ. While many veterans choose to help young players and let the chips fall where they may, I don't think TJ has ever been that sort. In Az, I don't think he was ever tight w/ the other RBs, and viewed them closer to being an enemy than teamate. While w/ the Bears, there is little question he and Benson always had a cold relationship. Now in NY, you read little by way of TJ being a player who tries to help the other RBs and young guys. He doesn't simply try to elevate himself through his play, but also by stepping on the competition.

Lovie really has a way of coming off looking like an ass. When Cle was playing games before game one about which QB would start, most all seemed to think it was a joke. And that is at QB. Does Lovie really believe it gives the bears an advantage if Cle doesn't know whether Omiyale or Beekman will start at LG? Give me a break. I agree w/ the Hunter in the middle move. Roach has more athleticism, but simply lacks the knowledge, and I think that lack of knowledge simply negates his extra athleticism. As much as I agree w/ the player changes, if we heard we would have scheme changes, then I think fans would get excited.

Benson needed to get slapped to wake up, he just didnt get "it" here. by the bears releasing him, he woke up cuz his paychecks stopped coming There were a lot of issues there. Honestly, I don't think it was nearly as much Benson needing a slap or wakeup so much as Benson simply needing to be in a place where he was liked, or at least not hated:) Benson simply seems mentally (and emotionally) soft. Thus, regardless how true it was, if Benson is in a situation where he feels isolated and dislikes, he simply is not a person who will do well. At the same time, the coaches I think have more responsibility. I have often said I think our staff allows the players to run the asylum a bit too much. I personally go back and forth on this, but at some point, can the coach not bring in some of the team leaders and tell them to back off? I don't know. But I just do not feel Lovie did a whole lot to help. Also, while all the above has made a difference, so has the system. Benson is in a very different system, but it is one that fits his style. Our system was simply not a good fit for a power runner like Benson. any qb would look good with the time orton is getting and wr's making plays on his balls You don't have to mention OL to me. But even if we had Denver's OL and WRs, I would argue we would not see the same results. It is more than just the talent on the field. In Denver, there is a system, and it just happens to be a system Orton fits very well. Even if we had all other parts equal, I do not think we would see the same results. turners play calling is horrid and i dont think the Lovie HC and DC thing is working. I defended Turner early on, and while I do not think he is as bad as some think, I also do not think he has done a lot positive either. At the same time, our defense is more disappointing to me. with what you said about best utilize such talent cutler roll out?? the guy is running for his life anyways. could help the shit oline we have, give him more time to set play up No argument what so ever. This was a play he did VERY well in Denver, and is one many teams use to help protect against the rush. wolfe why r we running him up the middle?????? Honestly, I think some make too big a deal out of this. No, I do not want Wolfe up the middle on 3rd and 1, but I have no problem w/ Wolfe getting a shot inside here and there. I saw him go up the middle the other week, and frankly, he showed more inside running ability than I have seen from Forte this year. If Wolfe can't handle an inside run, than I am not sure I want him on the team. Again, that doesn't mean I want him in the power set, but I don't want to become predictable by only running him outside. olsen is he still alive???????? How is this Turner's fault? If anything, I at times feel we are forcing it to him. Two games ago, he had 4 or 5 catches, but led the team in targets. We have used Olsen all over the place. Problem is, Olsen has simply not stepped up as most expected. why have we not gone deep with hester once a qt???????????? he have a qb with a huge arm get him the ball..could open the run You sure about that. I think we have gone up top w/ Hester. But the reason we have not gone deep w/ Hester often, or anyone, is simply because when your OL protects like ours does, your QB needs to get rid of the ball in about 3 steps, and that is not often enough to go deep. why have we not ran hester and knox on flys every freakin play, they r the 2 fastest player on the field every game???? See above. Either we pass blind, w/ no idea of coverage because we are throwing it 50 yards downfield when the WR is still around the 15, or Cutler gets lit up holding the ball too long. Hey, I want to utilize Cutler's arm too, but with our OL, every tick Cutler has to hold the ball increases his chance of getting killed. why not try hester in the wildcat with forte in backfield??? im not a fan but freak lets try it.....lets try something our run game has been horrid We have tried the wildcat, but honestly, we just don't have the players to run it. For us, we might be able to try a trick play here or there, but we can't do this much. We just don't have the bevy of options or ability to do it. I watching Miami and was simply amazed how well they ran this system, but they have two very good RBs in Brown and Williams, as well as solid FBs. Also, I think Miami has a pretty decent OL, and the wildcat is tough to run w/o good OL play. why is that piece of shit still playing LG??????????????????? r u kidding me I've only been saying that since camp, when he was given the job. Still curious who is making the call on this one. Forte out of the backfield worked great last year in the passing attack, where is he this year????? Forte looked great in many areas last year he has simply sucked this year. Honestly, his vision and blocking have been so weak, I have wondered if he needed contacts. Not saying that is the case, but making the point of how poor his play has been. But are you blaming this on Turner? Maybe, but if you are going to blame Turner for Forte's struggles, then don't you have to credit Turner for Forte having a rookie year like he did? I am by no way absolving Turner. There are things, some of which you mention, I just do not understand why we have not seen, or seen more often. But on offense, I just can't help but to look at the OL. When your OL is as bad as ours is, honestly, there is only so much an OC can do. On defense, that is where I really call out coaching. We run a system based on pass rush from the front four, and yet even when we were getting pressure, we were blitzing a ton. We simply do not have the players to run Lovie's system, and yet it doesn't matter as we continue to do so. IMHO, that is because that system is the only thing Lovie knows. We all want Lovie to change systems, but has anyone considered that Lovie simply doesn't know another system, or not well enough to coach it. When was the last time he was in a non-cover two system? That is one reason why I liked Rivera. He had been exposed to many systems, and added another when he left us and went to a 3-4. That means if something isn't working, you are in a better position to adjust. But w/ Lovie, or when we had Babich, the knowledge was more limited, and the ability to change the scheme may simply not be there.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I am not saying I agree with everything Angelo has done. Not by any stretch. Simply put, I just do not think he truly values the OL. If he valued the OL half as much as I believe he does the DL, good things could happen. No, my point is not to totally remove blame from Angelo, but at the same time, I just more often question if we totally lack talent, or simply lack coaching to develop and utilize such talent.

Then again, why should Lovie be any different? Think about it. How many players did pretty well (or better) and pretty much as soon as we paid them, they tanked. If you think about it, very very few players we have re-signed to big contracts actually continued their same solid level of play, much less improved. Why should Lovie be different from any of the rest.

But when you start saying that the opinions expressed on the board are actually worth something outside of the board, then I call BS. Unless someone posts that works in the NFL, our opinions dont have much value beyond the debates and banters of the board. And I guess this is the part I either am not sure what you mean, or just question in general. If you mean my opinion has no value for the organization in the sense that I can not sign or cut players, etc., then sure, I agree. That is pretty obvious. But I otherwise disagree. I am sure you watch ESPN, or one of the many other sports media channels. Or you read the on-line stuff. Or you pickup the sports page. In most any, you are going to read/hear opinions. Yes, I realize many (most) are more educated than mine, but would you argue none of those have any "value". I really just don't get the value aspect of your comment. Or is it that any who get paid for their comments have value in their opinion? Or is it only those w/ NFL backgrounds. I honestly just don't get it. I often relate sports to politics, especially when talking about opinions. I don't work for the government, but I have an opinion. Does the fact that I have a vote mean my opinion has value? If so, does not the opinion of a fan have value as the fan is some ways has a vote. Fans can stop buying tickets. They can stop buying concessions or parking. No more jerseys. Etc. Or make is more simple. You think if Halas Hall was absolutely flooded w/ emails, letters, etc from fans of the same opinion, it wouldn't carry weight? Sorry, but I think my opinion does have value, as does yours and everyones. Gotta take all opinions w/ a grain of salt, but that doesn't mean they are w/o value.

Lovie is the league's highest paid coach? Are you kidding me? Is that for real?

While I am not going to argue on the scouts, I do think it important to point out a couple things. One. Lovie has a lot more say than you give him credit for. Sure, it is ultimately the decision of the GM, but when you say it isn't Lovie's fault that we add this player or that, I think that is simply wrong. Two. chicken and eggs argument. Is the problem that the players Angelo adds are w/o talent, or is the problem that our coaching staff is simply inable to develop and utilize that talent. This year, I think it kind of looks bad for Lovie. While there are many reasons for Orton to be looking better in Denver, does anyone think we would have ever seen that w/ Lovie/Turner? If Lovie or Turner were in Denver, and all other things equal, I doubt Orton would look so good. Ditto w/ Benson, who didn't just tear us up, but has looked pretty damn good all year. And then there is our WRs. While I am not specifically calling out Lovie here, but I would make the point that Hester, Bennett and a rookie are looking pretty good. Yea, I get that Cutler is a huge aspect of that, but it does sort of hurt the argument that Angelo hasn't added talent. Frankly, I always bashed Angelo, but more and more I have come to believe that our problem is not nearly as much Angelo and our talent so much as our coaching staffs inability to develop and best utilize such talent.

As always with this subject, I think you misunderstand the point. It isn't that I, or anyone here, believes we could or should be a NFL GM or coach. No, the point is really just that just because we are not, doesn't mean our opinions are w/o reason. Current case in point. Our staff continues to start Omiyale. I am sure you would argue this must be the right move because the GM and coach say so. My argument though is that it isn't simply some full of himself fan w/ a differing opinion, but this also seems to be the opinion of many others who may not today be in the NFL, but are former head coaches, GMs, players, and scouts. So the point is, sometimes even we as fans can see things, supported by others who even you would have to agree are worthly, yet our staff doesn't agree. Another I would point to is Pace. 31 teams didn't seem to believe he could anymore play LT. Heck, most didn't believe he could still play at a starter level. The one team that did seem to believe he could still play and start felt he could only do so on the right side. Yet our team seemed to believe they were smarter than the rest. Does it mean our staff was right just because they get a paycheck from the McCaskey's?

Unfortunately, this board too often seems about a year ahead of our staff. And before anyone starts w/ that crap about how we are not worthy because we are not paid by the NFL, stuff it. Every writer seems to be calling out Omiyale, as well as those in the media who are former NFL players, coaches, GMs and scouts. So the fan opinion here is not as worthless as some would like to believe. And yet, despite seemingly everyone knowing, Omiyale continues to start. Maybe he does finally get the hook at some point, but the larger issue, IMHO, is that once again, the staff just seems to see what everyone else sees a step (or ten) later.

Mongo, Your barking up the wrong tree. Jason just doesn't see the value of the OL. He things we should have added stud WRs and they would make the OL look better. Just joking Jason I was never on board w/ the signings of Pace or Shaeffer, and wasn't a big fan of Omiyale either. I liked that we were addressing the OL, but not so much how we were doing it. Pace - I just never understood this one. Nearly no team in the NFL wanted him, and lets not pretend OL is an area every team is loaded with. That right there was a red flag. And the one other team that did show interest viewed him solely as a RT. We were the only team in the NFL that felt he was still an NFL LT. That should have sent up fireworks rather than a red flag. When your staff believes they are smarter then the rest of the league, you just have to wonder. I was never a fan with the idea of playing Pace at LT and moving Williams to RT. And I am not even a big Williams fan. But the kid was drafting in the 1st round to play LT. That is what our scouts felt he was. And we were moving him to the other side, which didn't seem a natural fit. So we were moving our 1st round pick to RT (out of position) in order to play a veteran at a position no other team in the league felt he could still play. Shaeffer flat out stunk. I mean, that team thought St. Clair was an upgrade to Shaeffer. Whether that was the case or not, that their team thought so little of him should have sent up red flags. Nope. Again, we are just smarter than they are. As for Omiyale, it isn't that I didn't like his potential. What I didn't like was (a) we gave him a contract more in line, IMHO, w/ a player more proven than he was and ( we were essentially going to put him at LG, and there was never much of a competition. The battle was a joke, as most felt Beekman won, but Omiyale starting proved there was never a legit competition. Its one thing if we are talking about a more proven veteran addition, but Omiyale is a player who should have to earn/win the job, not be handed it.

I'll start by saying I do not see them practice, and don't know how he has been looking. All I can go off is what I read/heard/saw prior to the season. All reports seemed to pretty much bash him from camp. For myself, I got to see him in several preseason games. I think we often kept several starting OL in longer than we did the rest of the starters as (a) I think we wanted to see what our backup QB and RBs could do and ( we had so many new faces, we were trying to develop our starters more. So often when he did get into the game, it was not until later, and against opponents lower string. So even though Shaeffer was considered a starter when we brought him to the Bears, and even though he was going against guys who were deep depth chart, and some likely out of football all-together, even with all this, I thought he looked awful. He was getting killed. Pace and Williams have been bad, IMHO, but at least we can say they are facing starters. Shaeffer was equally as bad, or worse, against much weaker levels of competition. Often when things are bad, we as fans want to make a change w/ the belief, "it can't get worse." But too often it does. We said it couldn't get worse than St. Clair/Tait, but I would argue it has been much worse. How many QBs have we played and said, "it can't get any worse," only to see it get much worse? Again, I have not seen him in practice. Maybe he is looking good in practice. However, going off what I last saw, I don't think he is an option. Further, he is a pure RT, so if he was to play, I think it would be at the expense of Pace (w/ Williams moving to LT) , and I have a hard time seeing us sit Pace.

We absolutely agree on one thing. Omiyale sucks. I think everyone pretty much agrees with that. But do you think our OL problems are that simple? Most seem to believe (as do I) that Garza is playing pretty decent, at least relative. Kreutz is inconsistent, but I have heard few who believe he is key in our problems. In fact, I think if most were to rank our OL in terms of problem areas, I think most would rank Garza last and Kreutz 2nd from last. Omiyale would not only be first, but would be well in front of the next worst. But I think most would place Pace and Williams as the #2 and #3 problems on our OL this year. are you serious? watch any offensive tackles and where they are putting the DE's on good blocks. what you are suggesting is rarely ever happening unless the DE's is just plain getting dominated by the tackle or getting help from a RB/TE, the defense's pass rush plain sucks or maybe in video games. on a 5-6 step drop it's absolutely normal for a qb to step up and throw the ball!!! that is what a pocket is for and why it's important to have one. Huh? Your comments seem to imply you think I expect pancake blocks every down. That I expect the OT to stuff the DE at the LOS, and not give an inch. FAR from that. What I expect from an OT is to force the DE to take a wider angle than one that would otherwise put them square in the path of the QB. You ask if I am serious. You seriously think the job of the OT is to allow a path to the QB? Huh? If the QB has to step up in the pocket to avoid the pass rush of the DE, than the OT did not do his job. The OT is supposed to force the DE to take a wider angle, and thus the DE simply misses the QB. Just watch how our DEs rush every down. They are simply not fast enough to beat the OT off the snap, and thus are forced into such wide angles as they are rendered ineffective. That is what an OT is supposed to do against an edge rushing DE, but that is not what our OTs are doing. Our OTs are getting beat at the snap, and allowing DEs a path to the QB. That is forcing Cutler to move up in the pocket, which has already collapsed thanks to Omiyale. But that doesn't mean the OTs did their job. As for who decides whether Omiyale starts or not, that is simply up for debate. I am not saying there is no chance it isn't Turner's call, but I question the thinking that the coach has no control or say in the matter. You say Lovie doesn't know enough about the offense. How much does he have to know to see Omiyale getting beat? I would argue that if it is Turner keeping Omiyale in there, then Lovie is failing to do his job as a head coach. If it is not Turner, then Lovie is failing just the same. The ONLY side of this that gives Lovie a smaller share of the blame is IF Angelo is factored. Whether we as fans like to admit it or not, players who get big contracts or are drafted high are sometimes put into the starting lineup, even if they didn't earn it, and as often as not, it is the GM who is making that call. Just look at the recent story in Tenn, where Bud Adams is reportedly telling Fisher to start Vince Young. That is just an example, but it is seen all the time. A GM's rep is on the line after drafting or signing a player, and that GM knows it is going to hurt personally if his additions prove to be busts.

pass protection: this i don't totally agree with. pace has been getting beaten at times but what you suggest is he is getting consistently eaten up on the *edge which not true. he AND williams are 'looking' worse than the reality of the situation indicates because of the collapse of the interior pocket, stunts, overloading one side of the line, blitz's and quite frankly much of this is due to poor preparation, scheme and play calling. the same can be said of williams. yes at times williams is getting overpowered and pushed back but this is not consistent. the more serious problem is our TE's have been extremely poor at blocking and in my opinion this is giving the tackles some of the bad wrap they don't deserve. olson and davis don't have a clue out there and are responsible for complete whiffs of what SHOULD be their blocking assignments. they aren't even getting chip blocks right. Sorry, but I just can't disagree more. It is not "just" blitzes and interior that is getting to Cutler. Pace and Williams are getting beaten pretty consistently. Undertand. That doesn't mean every down. Not even Omiyale gets abused every down. But Pace and Williams are getting beaten plenty enough for me to say consistently. To make the point, have you noticed how, in several games now, there are times when our opponent is playing something close to a prevent, rushing only 3 down linemen, and blitzing zero, and yet they are still getting to Cutler. You often see this late in a half or late in a game. I saw it first in GB, but thought it was the 3-4 scheme. But then I watched this happen in the Seattle game, and again in the Cincy game. Even the commentators have harped on this. When an opponent rushes on 3, against our (minimum) 5, Cutler should have all day. But too many times he has not also been pressured, but 2 of the 3 have actually penetrated our front. That is flat out pathetic, and yes, our "bookends" are absolutely a part of this. Omiyale has been the worst. No one is going to question that. But IMHO, Omiyale has at times taken the heat off Pace and Williams, who are also playing flat out awful, but they are getting less hate due to Omiyale. Now, I will agree that our TEs, and I would add our backs, have looked awful also. Whether they are supposed to chip block the blitzer or help the OT, they are doing a weak job. That does for Forte as well, who I think has looked flat out bad in blitz pickup this year. But that does not excuse the OTs. *when our tackles are moving the DE's out and around as is normal there is no place for our qb to step into. the left guard is getting pushed back 2 yds at the snap and our center is not far behind. so what is happening is a pincer move where the DE's are meeting our qb in the middle with him having no place to go except into the wash and pick his way through jumbo bodies. But if the QB has to step up in the pocket, sorry, but that means the OTs did not do their job. The OTs are supposed to push the DEs wide (like we see always done w/ our DEs) but our OTs are not doing this. I agree that Cutler has no where to move up because of DTs penetrating (especially on Omiyale) but if the QB has to move up in the pocket, that in itself means the OT did not do his job. The is not supposed to allow the DE a path to the QB. He is supposed to push that edge rusher wide outside, but our OTs are not doing this. Our OTs are simply getting beaten on the edge, allowing the DEs a path the to QB, which is made worse by our interior getting beaten and Cutler having no where to step up in the pocket. agree, i have no problem trying this out either. neither are having close to a stellar season so why not? you would have to keep in some protection plans so cutler doesn't get killed until you could see if williams can play on the left. I just question whether Williams would actually be any worse than Pace. While I never agreed, I understood why we moved Williams to RT. The belief was we added a very good LT, and thus moving Williams "seemed" appropriate. Now, it simply appears Pace can no longer play LT, thus the reason for Williams to be on the right side simply is no longer valid. with all that said, we are still not improving our lines interior without the beekman move. i can't believe lovie has any say in how this works out as he is clueless about offense. so ramp it up turner!! I think both Lovie, and even Angelo, likely have a say here. Sorry, but every report provided had Beekman outplaying Omiyale in camp, and it wasn't even close. I question whether the OC would make the switch. The move to start Omiyale was about (a) contract and ( putting in the player who was viewed as having more long term upside. Both of those reasons are reasons the GM and coach usually are part of. The coordinator will usually simply go w/ the best available player if given a choice, but I think he was not given a choice. I think this is all Angelo/Lovie.