The John Shoop Factor

[CrackerDog]

I just found out the Shoopster is the OC for NC. Yeah, that would be the NC football team that went 4-8 this year. I know they aren't generally considered a football powerhouse or anything, I just wanted to let all the Shoop haters out there know bad things continue to happen to him.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I would be surprised if North Carolina didn't make there way into a bowl game this upcoming year and into the top 25 within two years. Butch Davis has been doing a fantastic job recruiting there and Shoop is a good offensive mind. He didn't work out in Chicago but he was very well respected by Jon Gruden in Tampa.

 

Than again I never thought Shoop was a bad coach, I just didn't think he was ready for the job the Bears gave him. Had you had him working with a veteran good offensive mind and groomed him a bit better the Bears may have had a high quality OC on there hand. Of course I was one of the few people (despite me crapping all over Turner most of this year and being about the first to call for the firing of Shea) who was never too big on the Shoop worse thing in the world bandwagon.

[CrackerDog]

Than again I never thought Shoop was a bad coach,

 

I wouldn't let him scrub the locker room floors much less let him coach. He might be OK as a high school coach... Maybe. For like a girls school just starting a football program...

[DrunkBomber]

I thought he was on the Raiders coaching staff.

[Da Bears 88]

I thought he was on the Raiders coaching staff.

 

[DrunkBomber]

he was last year

[Da Bears 88]

he was last year

Ron Turner must be his twin brother, then.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I thought he was on the Raiders coaching staff.

He went from the Bears to the Raiders, than the Bucs and is now in North Carolina.

[DrunkBomber]

He went from the Bears to the Raiders, than the Bucs and is now in North Carolina.

Wikipedia said he was the interim OC for the Raiders last year. Was he in Tampa before Oakland?

[Da Bears 88]

Wikipedia said he was the interim OC for the Raiders last year. Was he in Tampa before Oakland?

From Wikipedia:

 

John Shoop (born August 9, 1969 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania) is the offensive coordinator and quarterback coach for the University of North Carolina. Previously he has served as the offensive coordinator for NFL's Oakland Raiders and the Chicago Bears. He has coached 12 years in the NFL also serving as a positions coach for the Carolina Panthers and Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Shoop played college football at the Sewanee, The University of the South in Sewanee, TN.

[nfoligno]

Crowton also back in college football, and running the offense in LSU.

 

Shea was hired this past year by Miami to be their QB coach.

 

Thought I would point these two out as well since we are talking about who is where today.

 

I was never a big Shoop fan, but at the same time, I never felt he had much to work w/, and do not feel any of the rest were worth jack either.

 

I would take Shoop over Crowton and Shea.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Crowton also back in college football, and running the offense in LSU.

 

Shea was hired this past year by Miami to be their QB coach.

 

Thought I would point these two out as well since we are talking about who is where today.

 

I was never a big Shoop fan, but at the same time, I never felt he had much to work w/, and do not feel any of the rest were worth jack either.

 

I would take Shoop over Crowton and Shea.

Those are my sentiments as well.

[DrunkBomber]

Shea might have been the biggest disaster in the history of the position...

[adam]

Shoop will probably be a HC in 5 years. Hopefully within the division.

[jason]

I'm amazed at the short memories of Bears' fans.

 

I realize that we've had to endure some horrible offensive coordinators without imagination or gameday skill/knowledge, but for you all to forget the travesty that was John Shoop is just unforgiveable.

 

This man's OWN TEAM was YELLING AT HIM!!!

 

He was, is, and forever will be, the worst OC the Bears ever hire. Period. This is not up for debate.

 

As for having nothing to work with, I call BS on that. He had a stud OL to begin with: LT Blake Brockermeyer, LG Rex Tucker, C Olin Kreutz, RG Chris Villarrial, RT James "Big Cat" Williams. Also, Jim Miller was a decent NFL QB capable of putting up good numbers if given time. Also, let's not forget the fact that Shoop had no clue how to use TEs or WRs, evident by the fact that Dez "Stone Hands" White continued to start. Oh, perhaps everyone forgot about A-Train, who is still putting up stats when given the chance on the Bills.

 

Did you forget about the 3-yd pass on 3rd and 12?

 

Did you forget about the fake to the exact same place the play went to?!

 

Did you forget about the 3-yd pass on 3rd and 12?

 

Did you forget about the ubiquitous bubble-screen?

 

Did you forget about the 3-yd pass on 3rd and 12?

 

This is the same guy who would protect a 6 point lead in the second quarter! Maybe a few of you forget, but there was not such vehement hatred for a coach in these parts in a long time, and the clown would have been fired if not for being lucky and hitching a ride aboard the dual-Buddha led defense that allowed Urlacher to roam free, and the team to virtually stop all opposing scoring.

 

Some others may have been bad, but there is no way in hell any Bears' OC has been worse, or will be worse than John Shoop. Never. When the team has an on-field mutiny about Turner, give me a call.

[Connorbear]

"He was, is, and forever will be, the worst OC the Bears ever hire. Period. This is not up for debate."

 

Glad you made that pronouncement...lol.

 

Peace

[kyyle23]

As for having nothing to work with, I call BS on that. He had a stud OL to begin with: LT Blake Brockermeyer, LG Rex Tucker, C Olin Kreutz, RG Chris Villarrial, RT James "Big Cat" Williams. Also, Jim Miller was a decent NFL QB capable of putting up good numbers if given time. Also, let's not forget the fact that Shoop had no clue how to use TEs or WRs, evident by the fact that Dez "Stone Hands" White continued to start. Oh, perhaps everyone forgot about A-Train, who is still putting up stats when given the chance on the Bills.

 

While I agree with pretty much everything else you said, I am gonna call shenanigans on Anthony Thomas

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/anthonythomas/c...ts?id=THO027279

 

Thomas hasnt been productive in the NFL since 2003

[nfoligno]

Sorry, but this is very debatable.

 

"As for having nothing to work with, I call BS on that. He had a stud OL to begin with: LT Blake Brockermeyer, LG Rex Tucker, C Olin Kreutz, RG Chris Villarrial, RT James "Big Cat" Williams."

 

Funny how Brock is considered so good now, but was ripped every year he was a bear. Tucker was able to remain about as healthy as Mike Brown. Big Cat was on the downside of his career, and the last time played well, so did the offense. This was FAR from a stud OL.

 

"Also, Jim Miller was a decent NFL QB capable of putting up good numbers if given time."

 

Really? What did Miller do prior to, or after the bears. It seems to me the only time Miller ever looked good was in Shoop's system, so I would think Shoop would get some credit for that.

 

"Also, let's not forget the fact that Shoop had no clue how to use TEs or WRs, evident by the fact that Dez "Stone Hands" White continued to start."

 

Or how about looking at who he had to work w/. At TE, I believe he had Fred Baxter. Wow, there is a great TE. At WR, Booker was his best WR, and Booker was a 100 catch, 1,000 yard receiver in his system. You rip Dez White, and no argument there, but look at what WRs Shoop had beyond Booker. Dez White. David Terrell. Or the oft-injured Marcus Robinson. Sorry, but you while you say he didn't know how to use his WRs, I would argue that he didn't have much to work w/.

 

"Oh, perhaps everyone forgot about A-Train, who is still putting up stats when given the chance on the Bills."

 

Your kidding, right? A-Train has been w/ three teams since leaving the bears, and has done nothing w/ any. In Dallas and NO, he was an after-thought. In Buffalo, you say he puts up stats when given a chance. Really? His 3.5 and 2.5 ypc averages beg to differ. The reality is, Shoop was given a 2nd round RB and turned him into the ROY. Under Shoop, A-Train had two 1,000 yard seasons, and has not have a combined 1,000 yards since. You make it out like A-Train is a good player, but he was only good in Shoop's system.

 

"This is the same guy who would protect a 6 point lead in the second quarter! Maybe a few of you forget, but there was not such vehement hatred for a coach in these parts in a long time, and the clown would have been fired if not for being lucky and hitching a ride aboard the dual-Buddha led defense that allowed Urlacher to roam free, and the team to virtually stop all opposing scoring."

 

I think you also forget that he ran a system as instructed by Jauron. I recall prior to 2001 how Jauron flat out said we would run a ball control, field position offense. The reality is, we didn't have much talent on offense, and ran a system that tried to win TOP, field positions and control the ball.

 

Shoop was not a good OC. I am not saying otherwise. But I think you are absolutely wrong when you try to say he had talent to work w/. The players he had have done nothing since leaving the bears. The only time they looked good was under Shoop, which tells me (a) they were probably never that good to begin w/ and ( Shoop got about as much out of them as possible.

 

Sorry, but I look at how Angelo has tried to add to the offense since Shoop and Jauron's departure, and see players brought in that Angelo never added. When Jauron was here, I think our top FA was Clark. Wow. Since then, Angelo added Tait, R.Brown, Garza, Miller, TJ and Moose, while drafting Rex, Berrian, Bradley and Benson. The reality is, Angelo did nothing to provide Shoop w/ talent to work w/, and instead asked our offense to not lose games.

 

To me, Shea and Turner have been worse because they were given more talent to work w/, and failed regardless.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Sorry, but this is very debatable.

 

"As for having nothing to work with, I call BS on that. He had a stud OL to begin with: LT Blake Brockermeyer, LG Rex Tucker, C Olin Kreutz, RG Chris Villarrial, RT James "Big Cat" Williams."

 

Funny how Brock is considered so good now, but was ripped every year he was a bear. Tucker was able to remain about as healthy as Mike Brown. Big Cat was on the downside of his career, and the last time played well, so did the offense. This was FAR from a stud OL.

 

"Also, Jim Miller was a decent NFL QB capable of putting up good numbers if given time."

 

Really? What did Miller do prior to, or after the bears. It seems to me the only time Miller ever looked good was in Shoop's system, so I would think Shoop would get some credit for that.

 

"Also, let's not forget the fact that Shoop had no clue how to use TEs or WRs, evident by the fact that Dez "Stone Hands" White continued to start."

 

Or how about looking at who he had to work w/. At TE, I believe he had Fred Baxter. Wow, there is a great TE. At WR, Booker was his best WR, and Booker was a 100 catch, 1,000 yard receiver in his system. You rip Dez White, and no argument there, but look at what WRs Shoop had beyond Booker. Dez White. David Terrell. Or the oft-injured Marcus Robinson. Sorry, but you while you say he didn't know how to use his WRs, I would argue that he didn't have much to work w/.

 

"Oh, perhaps everyone forgot about A-Train, who is still putting up stats when given the chance on the Bills."

 

Your kidding, right? A-Train has been w/ three teams since leaving the bears, and has done nothing w/ any. In Dallas and NO, he was an after-thought. In Buffalo, you say he puts up stats when given a chance. Really? His 3.5 and 2.5 ypc averages beg to differ. The reality is, Shoop was given a 2nd round RB and turned him into the ROY. Under Shoop, A-Train had two 1,000 yard seasons, and has not have a combined 1,000 yards since. You make it out like A-Train is a good player, but he was only good in Shoop's system.

 

"This is the same guy who would protect a 6 point lead in the second quarter! Maybe a few of you forget, but there was not such vehement hatred for a coach in these parts in a long time, and the clown would have been fired if not for being lucky and hitching a ride aboard the dual-Buddha led defense that allowed Urlacher to roam free, and the team to virtually stop all opposing scoring."

 

I think you also forget that he ran a system as instructed by Jauron. I recall prior to 2001 how Jauron flat out said we would run a ball control, field position offense. The reality is, we didn't have much talent on offense, and ran a system that tried to win TOP, field positions and control the ball.

 

Shoop was not a good OC. I am not saying otherwise. But I think you are absolutely wrong when you try to say he had talent to work w/. The players he had have done nothing since leaving the bears. The only time they looked good was under Shoop, which tells me (a) they were probably never that good to begin w/ and ( Shoop got about as much out of them as possible.

 

Sorry, but I look at how Angelo has tried to add to the offense since Shoop and Jauron's departure, and see players brought in that Angelo never added. When Jauron was here, I think our top FA was Clark. Wow. Since then, Angelo added Tait, R.Brown, Garza, Miller, TJ and Moose, while drafting Rex, Berrian, Bradley and Benson. The reality is, Angelo did nothing to provide Shoop w/ talent to work w/, and instead asked our offense to not lose games.

 

To me, Shea and Turner have been worse because they were given more talent to work w/, and failed regardless.

Great post Nfo.

[jason]

Sorry, but this is very debatable.

 

"As for having nothing to work with, I call BS on that. He had a stud OL to begin with: LT Blake Brockermeyer, LG Rex Tucker, C Olin Kreutz, RG Chris Villarrial, RT James "Big Cat" Williams."

 

Funny how Brock is considered so good now, but was ripped every year he was a bear. Tucker was able to remain about as healthy as Mike Brown. Big Cat was on the downside of his career, and the last time played well, so did the offense. This was FAR from a stud OL.

 

"Also, Jim Miller was a decent NFL QB capable of putting up good numbers if given time."

 

Really? What did Miller do prior to, or after the bears. It seems to me the only time Miller ever looked good was in Shoop's system, so I would think Shoop would get some credit for that.

 

"Also, let's not forget the fact that Shoop had no clue how to use TEs or WRs, evident by the fact that Dez "Stone Hands" White continued to start."

 

Or how about looking at who he had to work w/. At TE, I believe he had Fred Baxter. Wow, there is a great TE. At WR, Booker was his best WR, and Booker was a 100 catch, 1,000 yard receiver in his system. You rip Dez White, and no argument there, but look at what WRs Shoop had beyond Booker. Dez White. David Terrell. Or the oft-injured Marcus Robinson. Sorry, but you while you say he didn't know how to use his WRs, I would argue that he didn't have much to work w/.

 

"Oh, perhaps everyone forgot about A-Train, who is still putting up stats when given the chance on the Bills."

 

Your kidding, right? A-Train has been w/ three teams since leaving the bears, and has done nothing w/ any. In Dallas and NO, he was an after-thought. In Buffalo, you say he puts up stats when given a chance. Really? His 3.5 and 2.5 ypc averages beg to differ. The reality is, Shoop was given a 2nd round RB and turned him into the ROY. Under Shoop, A-Train had two 1,000 yard seasons, and has not have a combined 1,000 yards since. You make it out like A-Train is a good player, but he was only good in Shoop's system.

 

"This is the same guy who would protect a 6 point lead in the second quarter! Maybe a few of you forget, but there was not such vehement hatred for a coach in these parts in a long time, and the clown would have been fired if not for being lucky and hitching a ride aboard the dual-Buddha led defense that allowed Urlacher to roam free, and the team to virtually stop all opposing scoring."

 

I think you also forget that he ran a system as instructed by Jauron. I recall prior to 2001 how Jauron flat out said we would run a ball control, field position offense. The reality is, we didn't have much talent on offense, and ran a system that tried to win TOP, field positions and control the ball.

 

Shoop was not a good OC. I am not saying otherwise. But I think you are absolutely wrong when you try to say he had talent to work w/. The players he had have done nothing since leaving the bears. The only time they looked good was under Shoop, which tells me (a) they were probably never that good to begin w/ and ( Shoop got about as much out of them as possible.

 

Sorry, but I look at how Angelo has tried to add to the offense since Shoop and Jauron's departure, and see players brought in that Angelo never added. When Jauron was here, I think our top FA was Clark. Wow. Since then, Angelo added Tait, R.Brown, Garza, Miller, TJ and Moose, while drafting Rex, Berrian, Bradley and Benson. The reality is, Angelo did nothing to provide Shoop w/ talent to work w/, and instead asked our offense to not lose games.

 

To me, Shea and Turner have been worse because they were given more talent to work w/, and failed regardless.

 

I think our differences of opinion on the line will have to stand. Aside from Brock who was average, the rest of the line was pretty damn good. Big Cat may have been on the way down, but he was dominant. Add a young Kreutz, a mean Tucker, and Villareal and you have a very good line.

 

You're just plain wrong on Jim Miller. Please see the end of the 1999 season when he tore it up under Crowton as proof. Also, remember if it weren't for injuries - which I can't deny - he would have remained the starter and probably put up some more good games. Hell, Miller only had one 300+ yard game under Shoop, and he threw 49 times - clearly indicating that this wasn't the common Shoop game - to be honest, I don't know what happened during that game. I can't remember. But there is a good bet that either Shoop was sick, kidnapped, or mute that week.

 

I think you misunderstood me on ATrain. I didn't mean to imply that he was tearing it up when I said "putting up stats". I meant to imply that he is still a good NFL player, a serviceable NFL player. I would also like to add that Shoop gets no credit in this. The formula is not rocket science. When ATrain got the ball a lot, he ran well for a lot of yards. It's not surprising. He did so the few times Crowton gave him a chance. Hell, he put up a few good games last year with Buffalo! Simply calling X number of running plays is not something for which credit is deserved. To speak of Shoop's system is fallacy. It's simply "hand the ball off"..."hand the ball off"..."bubble screen"..."bubble screen". Repeat ad nauseum.

 

As for running what Jauron said, this may have some validity. Although, Shoop hasn't exactly lit it up since his time with the Bears either. I don't know how much of the plays Shoop called, how much of the gameplan he was responsible for, but I do know that Jauron eventually had to take the axe because of his loyalty to Shoop. Had Shoop been dumped, Jauron would have saved his job.

 

Last but not least, the free agency. Well, there is nothing to debate here. We agree. For some reason there was a point at which the Bears organization just said, "Screw it. We're not going to be cheap any more. We're spending."