I’m Fascinated to see . . .

[dawhizz]

It's out: https://www.chicagobears.com/video/scouting-the-future-inside-the-bears-2025-draft-1920-football-drive

Some immediate takeaways: You always get the impression that "this is exactly what we wanted to happen" in these videos, but there's not quite as much video from prior to the picks here, so there is some wiggle room here where you don't see the clear "I hope he's still there in a few picks" that we did with, say, Odunze.  There is a quote somewhere early day 2 where they say "we're staying at [pick] 39", which seems to contradict report that they tried to trade up to 38 to take Treyveon Henderson.  Maybe that quote was from after the trade attempts fell through, but it doesn't really feel that way.  There is a place where Poles pretty clearly maps out: we want another pick to hit LB, DB, RB, and OG for day three, which is exactly what they do, so it certainly seems like, for whatever reason, they didn't see edge as as much a need as pretty much everyone else did.  It's funny when they take Hyppolite, Poles is like "are they going to have highlights for him?" recognizing that he might be seen as a reach.

 

[Stinger226]

I like these kind of videos that let you see the backroom of these teams. 

 BJ saying he played the highlight film right before the draft tells me they were targeting Loveland all along. 

It seems like all the position coaches had a lot of input into the picks. 

It seems they stayed at 39 when Burden was available and projected the next 2 players they wanted and got them in the trade back.

BJ was all in on the picks and obviously he had input into those selections. 

Eric Beinemy seemed like the only one very excited to get Monangai. 

I would say they got done what they wanted to in the draft ,at least, they like who they got.

 

[Mongo3451]

That's my kind of hype video.  I really enjoyed the dialogue and forethought of how the draft would shake out.  It shows a knowledgeable and disciplined plan.  I feel that they hit on Loveland, Trapilo, Stewart, Hyppolite, Newman and Monongai.  Burden and Frazier have something to prove, before I get high on them.

[BearFan PHX]

35 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

That's my kind of hype video.  I really enjoyed the dialogue and forethought of how the draft would shake out.  It shows a knowledgeable and disciplined plan.  I feel that they hit on Loveland, Trapilo, Stewart, Hyppolite, Newman and Monongai.  Burden and Frazier have something to prove, before I get high on them.

Burden has a ton of talent, and with the right guidance I hope he turns into a real weapon - he has it in him!

But the reason he slipped to the second round is that he shows much sharper cuts when he's running with the ball than he does when he's running his routes, and he is a bit of a head case. Now to be fair, most stud WRs have giant egos and are head cases, so it's hopefully not a fatal flaw, but if he is coachable, he does have a ceiling to become a top WR in the NFL.

[BearFan PHX]

Ok, so I watched the episode. Lots of great highlight film on players. I was especially happy to see Turner's film. I think he was a steal. He should help us a lot.

I do think the beginning where they say "Let's start with Loveland" was a little bit suspect. It's not clear that they started with him out of the gate, or if they were doing tight ends there, or what.

We have heard from Courtney Cronin that the Bears would have taken Jeanty, Campbell or Banks over Loveland if any of them had been there, so I dunno if the film really says anything - it was edited tightly to the beginning of those words, and there is nothing from the draft before the pick.

Still and all, the Bears were obviously very high on Loveland, and pleased that he was available for them. He's gonna be a great player for us, I believe.

But I don't know that this film really does anything to dispel the idea that Poles miscalculated on HB availability through several trade downs. That's not to say that the players they did get were bad - they arent. It looks like a solid crop of rookies that can help us, including the HB we eventually did get, Monangai who looks great. I just don't think everything went perfectly according to plan on draft day either? Or at least, this film isn't proof that it did.

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

Ok, so I watched the episode. Lots of great highlight film on players. I was especially happy to see Turner's film. I think he was a steal. He should help us a lot.

I do think the beginning where they say "Let's start with Loveland" was a little bit suspect. It's not clear that they started with him out of the gate, or if they were doing tight ends there, or what.

We have heard from Courtney Cronin that the Bears would have taken Jeanty, Campbell or Banks over Loveland if any of them had been there, so I dunno if the film really says anything - it was edited tightly to the beginning of those words, and there is nothing from the draft before the pick.

Still and all, the Bears were obviously very high on Loveland, and pleased that he was available for them. He's gonna be a great player for us, I believe.

But I don't know that this film really does anything to dispel the idea that Poles miscalculated on HB availability through several trade downs. That's not to say that the players they did get were bad - they arent. It looks like a solid crop of rookies that can help us, including the HB we eventually did get, Monangai who looks great. I just don't think everything went perfectly according to plan on draft day either? Or at least, this film isn't proof that it did.

Since none of them were available, we will never know. After they made the draft pick, the next day BJ said he showed a  highlight video before the draft to show a little insight in where they were going with the pick to the war room. At 9.45 . It was Loveland. Through out the draft they seemed like they guess who people were taking and were pretty spot on, so they knew none of those other picks would be there. CC has no inside information other than they liked those players. Im sure they liked Carter and Hunter to but knew they wouldnt be there.

[BearFan PHX]

22 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

Since none of them were available, we will never know. After they made the draft pick, the next day BJ said he showed a  highlight video before the draft to show a little insight in where they were going with the pick to the war room. At 9.45 . It was Loveland. Through out the draft they seemed like they guess who people were taking and were pretty spot on, so they knew none of those other picks would be there. CC has no inside information other than they liked those players. Im sure they liked Carter and Hunter to but knew they wouldnt be there.

CC reported that Bears employees, including director of player personnel said they wanted players that were gone before they picked, and specifically Jeanty, Banks and Campbell, and Henderickson later. She named her source, and also exactly when he said it (immediately after the draft)

So either you think she is lying, or youre just trying to ignore these facts because they dont fit your "everything is perfect" narrative.

Now even if the Bears did get out maneuvered on the board, it doesnt mean the draft was a failure. Poles may have miscalculated who would be there at times, but we still stayed true to our board and got value. So this isnt me saying he was awful either.

But reality is messy, and is almost never "they got it exactly how they wanted it, its perfect"

[Stinger226]

35 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

CC reported that Bears employees, including director of player personnel said they wanted players that were gone before they picked, and specifically Jeanty, Banks and Campbell, and Henderickson later. She named her source, and also exactly when he said it (immediately after the draft)

So either you think she is lying, or youre just trying to ignore these facts because they dont fit your "everything is perfect" narrative.

Now even if the Bears did get out maneuvered on the board, it doesnt mean the draft was a failure. Poles may have miscalculated who would be there at times, but we still stayed true to our board and got value. So this isnt me saying he was awful either.

But reality is messy, and is almost never "they got it exactly how they wanted it, its perfect"

I read the remarks after the draft, can you show me the video where she states it before the draft? I have seen interviews where Poles talks about all three of those players, of course he liked them, but other than the first pick in the draft no GM is going to broadcast who they are taking. 

Actually it doesnt matter because they were not available and they didnt move up to take any of them or even talked about that. 

[BearFan PHX]

28 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

I read the remarks after the draft, can you show me the video where she states it before the draft? I have seen interviews where Poles talks about all three of those players, of course he liked them, but other than the first pick in the draft no GM is going to broadcast who they are taking. 

Actually it doesnt matter because they were not available and they didnt move up to take any of them or even talked about that. 

OK youre missing two very important details.

1) It was said AFTER the draft, not before. CC says she spoke to the dir of player personnel after the draft, and he said Loveland wasnt necessarily their first choice, that if Banks had fallen, for example, they would have taken him. I believe CC is not a liar. I feel like it may even have been partly on video, so you could see hm say it - Jeff something.

2) It matters who was available when, because we did trade down multiple times. *IF* we traded down thinking we would get a certain targeted HB at a lower pick, one who was still available on the board BEFORE the trade down, and we could have just picked them then, but instead if we traded down and then someone got in front of us and took the HB, then that means we read the situation poorly, and missed out on HBs we were targeting more than Monangai. If it happened multiple times, then it is fair to criticize the draft process as having misread the board, and missed out on players we mistakenly thought would be available later, got greedy, and missed the HB that was targeted.

And even if that did happen, I'm not unhappy value-wise with the players we DID pick either, but if you're going to be evaluating the team, you gotta look into the places where they failed too. Is it fireable? No it's not. But that doesnt mean it isnt important. It's important in the continued evaluation of Poles who has done some amazing things, some good things, gotten lucky some, made some very questionable moves, and a few flat out bad decisions too.

For me, right now, Poles is getting a B. Maybe a B+, and most of that is due to Caleb and Johnson, two massive pieces we got VERY right. But Caleb was luck as much as anything, and Johnson picked the Bears because of Caleb. So Poles could easily have lost both of them, if the Texans don't score a last minute touchdown in the last game of the season that didnt matter to them.

For me, that all adds up to: Poles is worth keeping an eye on. I'm not totally sold on him or Warren. Not the way I am about the coaching staff, for example.

[Mongo3451]

32 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

For me, right now, Poles is getting a B. Maybe a B+, and most of that is due to Caleb and Johnson, two massive pieces we got VERY right.

That's a big reach of a statement.  Neither are proven at their profession as of yet.  Does it look good on paper?  Hell yeah!  Does it look good on the field?  Haven't seen it yet.  I very much agree we got it right, but I'm not betting a nickel on it until I see it happen.  Been burnt too many times...

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

That's a big reach of a statement.  Neither are proven at their profession as of yet.  Does it look good on paper?  Hell yeah!  Does it look good on the field?  Haven't seen it yet.  I very much agree we got it right, but I'm not betting a nickel on it until I see it happen.  Been burnt too many times...

that is SO fair. Im trying to bend over sideways to not be negative, so maybe I went too far positive LOL

maybe I could spin it like this? Poles got the two best candidates out there for these jobs. So he succeeded. Now whether they work out, is another thing?

But yeah. Im not sold on Poles. I'd really like to know whether he was allowed to fire Flus last year or not. If he was, then he is definitely suspect. But maybe he wasnt, and I'll probably never know.

Let's see how Dalman and Jackson look on the OL. We are assuming those holes are plugged now, but I thought Nate Davis' tape was awesome too.

Youre right - lets wait and see. Like you said - looks good on paper, cant wait to see it on grass.

[Stinger226]

21 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

OK youre missing two very important details.

1) It was said AFTER the draft, not before. CC says she spoke to the dir of player personnel after the draft, and he said Loveland wasnt necessarily their first choice, that if Banks had fallen, for example, they would have taken him. I believe CC is not a liar. I feel like it may even have been partly on video, so you could see hm say it - Jeff something.

2) It matters who was available when, because we did trade down multiple times. *IF* we traded down thinking we would get a certain targeted HB at a lower pick, one who was still available on the board BEFORE the trade down, and we could have just picked them then, but instead if we traded down and then someone got in front of us and took the HB, then that means we read the situation poorly, and missed out on HBs we were targeting more than Monangai. If it happened multiple times, then it is fair to criticize the draft process as having misread the board, and missed out on players we mistakenly thought would be available later, got greedy, and missed the HB that was targeted.

And even if that did happen, I'm not unhappy value-wise with the players we DID pick either, but if you're going to be evaluating the team, you gotta look into the places where they failed too. Is it fireable? No it's not. But that doesnt mean it isnt important. It's important in the continued evaluation of Poles who has done some amazing things, some good things, gotten lucky some, made some very questionable moves, and a few flat out bad decisions too.

For me, right now, Poles is getting a B. Maybe a B+, and most of that is due to Caleb and Johnson, two massive pieces we got VERY right. But Caleb was luck as much as anything, and Johnson picked the Bears because of Caleb. So Poles could easily have lost both of them, if the Texans don't score a last minute touchdown in the last game of the season that didnt matter to them.

For me, that all adds up to: Poles is worth keeping an eye on. I'm not totally sold on him or Warren. Not the way I am about the coaching staff, for example.

1) I watched 5 CC interviews and never does she say King told her they were takng Banks if he was there. Im on her X account and cant find that statement. Point being every interview I have seen, its always her opinion they were trading up for Jeanty (to expensive)or going to take Campbell or Banks. The interview with King only said they were interested in 3 other top 10 draft picks. I have no problem with her opinion many people made those statements but there was never an insider saying they were doing that. That doesnt make her a liar. Every interview she gave before the draft was talk about RBs, LT and DT. Every interview she has stated this is a BJ driven draft. 

2) Of course it matters who's there. Last year Poles was willing to trade a few spots to get Odunze and Cunningham told him to be patient. So if they want someone they would trade at least a few spots to get them. Any team would want Jeanty so the thought they might traded for him was always in play. but with with Banks at 9, nothing. I think they targeted Loveland. Another indicator was BJ played a Colston highlight film before the first round to the rest of the war room. I think they had intentions of always trading one of the 2 2nd rounds picks because of several positions to address. So they may have wanted Henderson but didnt trade a few spots to get him. They seen Bruden available and decided he was worth keeping on that pick and took what they could get with  41 to still add a OT and DL, both they deemed needs. They had to know chances are Ersery not being there at 56, he went at 48. Between 41 and 56 4 edge players, 2 DT, and 2 LTs went off the board. I think when they traded back they had both Ozzy and Shemar on their radar and got who they wanted. Just as easy to say they got who they targeted instead they misjudged the board. C

Cant say about any of the other picks but I think they got 3 of what they planned to get with the first 4 picks. Burden was the outlier, being available they went to plan B or even C with getting a RB, they passed on  Henderson with what  would have been an easy trade if they wanted him. They liked Bruden better. 

In round 4 , Scattabo went at 105 and they easily could have moved up to get him but instead moved back because they got a couple players available they wanted. 

In the 7th round I think they maybe liked either Brashard Smith or Damien Martinez but went before their pick. Monangai was available and that's who they ended up with. We have no way of knowing of how they ranked their RBs , Kyle may have been 4th or 5th on their list. If we go by attention they paid before the draft.

1) Jeanty  ( cost to great)

2) Henderson

3) Scattabo

4) Brashard Smith 

Everyone has an opinion on how the draft should have went, I think they pretty well got the  players they wanted. Kyle Monangai will prove valueable. We wont know what is right or wrong for a couple of years. 

[BearFan PHX]

CC absolutely interviewed Jeff King on camera, and he said half of this, and the other half she attributed to him later in her own interview. I saw it with my own eyes, i feel like I even pasted to it on this board.

You can say it didnt happen. Whatever. You win because things that happened never happened. Cool.

As far as trading down, Poles took a gamble a certain player would be there later and they werent multiple times. Thats not a win for Poles.

it IS OK for the Bears to not be perfect you know? Its Ok to criticize the bad stuff and praise the good stuff. Nothing is going to happen if we think the Bears had some stumbles in the draft. I dunno, maybe you're superstitious, but our comments cant hurt the bears, and it is OK to look at the good and the bad both. It's even ok to cut, trade or fire people who might be replaced by people who would be better. That's good for the team.

[Stinger226]

28 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

CC absolutely interviewed Jeff King on camera, and he said half of this, and the other half she attributed to him later in her own interview. I saw it with my own eyes, i feel like I even pasted to it on this board.

You can say it didnt happen. Whatever. You win because things that happened never happened. Cool.

As far as trading down, Poles took a gamble a certain player would be there later and they werent multiple times. Thats not a win for Poles.

it IS OK for the Bears to not be perfect you know? Its Ok to criticize the bad stuff and praise the good stuff. Nothing is going to happen if we think the Bears had some stumbles in the draft. I dunno, maybe you're superstitious, but our comments cant hurt the bears, and it is OK to look at the good and the bad both. It's even ok to cut, trade or fire people who might be replaced by people who would be better. That's good for the team.

I goggled it and could not find it. I have watched 6 CC interviews, can you link it to me? Its not on her X account and Im not on TikTok or Snapchat Im not calling you a liar, I just cant find it. I spend an hour looking for it. I even suffered thru 2 TTNLs videos looking for it. She mentioned talking to him on two videos but never mentioned ( they were going to draft Banks on it). 

 

[BearFan PHX]

4 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I goggled it and could not find it. I have watched 6 CC interviews, can you link it to me? Its not on her X account and Im not on TikTok or Snapchat Im not calling you a liar, I just cant find it. I spend an hour looking for it. I even suffered thru 2 TTNLs videos looking for it. She mentioned talking to him on two videos but never mentioned ( they were going to draft Banks on it). 

 

LOL you do get credit for watching TTNL videos! Ill look and see what i can find, cant promise ill find it, but Ill try.

[BearFan PHX]

I havent found it yet - it was from Halas Hall, with Jeff King, who was standing to the left of CC from our perspective (CC's right) I remember the setup very clearly. Ill keep looking.

In the meanwhile, here is CC saying it without attributing it. She says it in a definite way, so shes not expressing a guess. She had already said these were facts in the video Im not finding, but at least you can hear her say it with some authority.

Go to 50:30
 

 

[BearFan PHX]

Yeah I am not finding it at all - which is weird. I know it happened on April 26th, the last day of the draft, after it was all over, and I know it was CC at Halas Hall with Jeff King. I remember they were standing. I remember first seeing it in a vertical clip on youtube. I remember being surprised that Jeff King was so forthcoming about getting played on the trade downs. He used softer terms, but he admitted targeting several HBs and seeing them go before they picked after tradebacks. I think it might have been a remote for ESPN?

Ive used google filters to limit to the day, and with those names, it should come right up.

Possibly the Bears asked to have that removed because of what it said? i remember at the time I thought "holy crap thats a headline!" but it was just in the conversation and didnt get focus at the time. Just kind of "oh ok, thats what happened"

Later, in the TTNL clip I posted above, a few days later, she spoke authoritatively about it.

If you look at her twitter from the 24th to the 26th you see she gets a lot of quotes from underlings - scouts, asst directors of scouting etc. So she was in the building at Halas Hall talking to people on those days. Both covering press conferences, and getting quotes from people like Jeff King. She also still has tweets up with other quotes from Jeff King, so we know she interviewed him then too.

Crazy that it's missing, unless the bears requested it to come down?

[AZ54]

The only thing I've seen is how happy Ben Johnson was when they drafted Colston Loveland.  When he met Loveland at Halas Hall he said "I turned on your tape yesterday and little did they (the scouts and coaches in the room) know it was just a little insight into where we were headed."   That didn't look or sound at all like a consolation prize.  Contrast that with some of the later round picks all the way to Monangai where he's just making matter of fact welcome to the team statements.  Link is marked to start on the quote: 

 

[BearFan PHX]

14 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

The only thing I've seen is how happy Ben Johnson was when they drafted Colston Loveland.  When he met Loveland at Halas Hall he said "I turned on your tape yesterday and little did they (the scouts and coaches in the room) know it was just a little insight into where we were headed."   That didn't look or sound at all like a consolation prize.  Contrast that with some of the later round picks all the way to Monangai where he's just making matter of fact welcome to the team statements.  Link is marked to start on the quote: 

 

yeah its obvious that BJ was thrilled with Loveland.

On that day I said i suspected he knew he ought to get a LT, but wanted the TE instead, when Loveland was the guy, he was overjoyed, not having to do the boring conservative thing, but to add firepower.

But mostly, despite the only quotes i had happened to find, i was more talking about about whether we traded back too far and missed HBs we wanted with those tradebacks, and that it happened more than once. Probably Kaleb Johnson and Cam Skatebo.

Now I cant say Im unhappy with Kyle Monangai either. And if Trapilo ends up starting, and Monangai ends up a big contributor, then im gonna say our board was pretty smart and deep.

But none of that says that Poles didnt miscalculate the trade downs either?