Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Muhammad has a great year, comes here, sucks, gets released, and has a 900 yard year. Maybe it's just no WR will strive here. Would trading what could potentially be our future (1st and a 3rd + his $10+ million extension) for Boldin be a waste? Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I dont think so considering his age and the fact that hes already developed. I still dont think it will happen, but I wouldnt mind giving up a first and third for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I would not trade those picks but I'd trade a 2nd Rd pick. I've watched him play since his first game in the league and he's exactly the type of player Bears fans will love, tough, fights for every yard and he's strong going after the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I would not trade those picks but I'd trade a 2nd Rd pick. I've watched him play since his first game in the league and he's exactly the type of player Bears fans will love, tough, fights for every yard and he's strong going after the ball. I would love to see him in a Bears Uniform, if for the right price. I would give up a 2nd and maybe even another conditional pick depending on how he performs. I also don't see this happening though as I don't see us making a big splash in FA. A couple of guys here and there maybe but no significant signing like a Gross or Boldin or Peppers or who ever else we have been discussing for a while now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 So Dallas gives up a 1st, a 3rd, a 6th, and a 7th for Roy Williams, and twig and AZ54 are saying that they'd take Boldin for a 2nd? There's no way in hell the Cardinals make that trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clnr Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 So Dallas gives up a 1st, a 3rd, a 6th, and a 7th for Roy Williams, and twig and AZ54 are saying that they'd take Boldin for a 2nd? There's no way in hell the Cardinals make that trade. I agree with you. My guess is that if we would offer this years first and next years first or second pick, they'll listen to us. Boldin >> Roy Williams! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 So Dallas gives up a 1st, a 3rd, a 6th, and a 7th for Roy Williams, and twig and AZ54 are saying that they'd take Boldin for a 2nd? There's no way in hell the Cardinals make that trade. Your right and if I was the Cards I wouldn't even listen for anything less than a 1st and 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danimal99 Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Boldin is a pipe dream for some BEARS fans. No way is he coming to Chicago and you can put it on the board ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Agreed... I'd consider a first only if we got something back like a 2nd... I would love to see him in a Bears Uniform, if for the right price. I would give up a 2nd and maybe even another conditional pick depending on how he performs. I also don't see this happening though as I don't see us making a big splash in FA. A couple of guys here and there maybe but no significant signing like a Gross or Boldin or Peppers or who ever else we have been discussing for a while now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I would tend to agree... Boldin is a pipe dream for some BEARS fans. No way is he coming to Chicago and you can put it on the board ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 While I agree, I would point out the following. (a) Roy Williams was not a huge distraction. If Boldin makes a big stink trying to force a trade, Az is not as likely to get full market value. ( Det traded RW during the season, to a team desperate. IMHO, the market is going to see a higher price for in-season deals than offseason deals. I doubt Az would agree to just a 2nd round pick, but also am not sold they will get as much as Det got, even though Boldin is a better receiver. So Dallas gives up a 1st, a 3rd, a 6th, and a 7th for Roy Williams, and twig and AZ54 are saying that they'd take Boldin for a 2nd? There's no way in hell the Cardinals make that trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 While I agree, I would point out the following. (a) Roy Williams was not a huge distraction. If Boldin makes a big stink trying to force a trade, Az is not as likely to get full market value. ( Det traded RW during the season, to a team desperate. IMHO, the market is going to see a higher price for in-season deals than offseason deals. I doubt Az would agree to just a 2nd round pick, but also am not sold they will get as much as Det got, even though Boldin is a better receiver. Not to mention that Jerry Jones is the new Al Davis. That was a toooo huge of a trade for Roy Williams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 To go one further on the "not to mention", he was a total flop for Dallas this past year. W/ 10 games as a Cowgirl, he averages less than 2 catches for less than 10 yards per game. To be honest, I have no clue what he will get. There are always the idiot owner/GMs who defy the market w/ crazy deals. Danny boy last year offered Cincy two #1s for Chad Johnson. The only thing more idiotic than the offer was Cincy turning it down. Think they would take two #1s for him now? I doubt it would work, but what if we offered our 2nd, one of our 3rds, and Vasher? Especially w/ two #3s this year, I think he is easily worth the two picks. His value is in fact great, but maybe Vasher still has enough good reputation to get the deal done. We would eat the cap hit, but also have the cap space to afford that. Also, we have the cap space to sign Boldin to a new deal. I think boldin is most likely to get a 1st plus in trade value, but when push comes to shove, who knows. What I can really see happening is a 2nd round pick this year, and a 1st rounder next year. Not to mention that Jerry Jones is the new Al Davis. That was a toooo huge of a trade for Roy Williams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 So Dallas gives up a 1st, a 3rd, a 6th, and a 7th for Roy Williams, and twig and AZ54 are saying that they'd take Boldin for a 2nd? There's no way in hell the Cardinals make that trade. Just because Dallas made bad deal doesn't mean we must follow in their footsteps. Consider also that Dallas had a ton of draft picks and at the time of the deal they still felt they were a team capable of competing for a Superbowl. In other words they aren't looking at adding a bunch of young talent to their roster. JJ figured Roy would put them over the top, Bears fans knew better. Read carefully...I didn't say they would do that deal I said I'd give up a second round pick for him and but if it were to make Rod Graves smile we could throw in a 6th and 7th because IMO those picks as pretty much inconsequential. I agree this is a deal that is not likely to happen if only because we have too many holes to fill on our roster. Because of that, right now I'm not willing to give up more than our second round pick and perhaps those late round picks. If you want to start a thread about what the Cards will ask for Boldin I'll tell you it's a minimum of a first round pick. Boldin has two years on his contract so most likely they will make him a decent contract offer but not great and tell him take it or leave it. Fitzgerald also stated the other day that he'd restructure his deal to help resign Boldin. However, sometimes s*** happens and in this case there could be a lot of acrimony between these two sides. If the Cards truly feel Boldin might brecome a huge distraction who knows what they'd do last minute to cut a deal. To make things more palatable for both sides perhaps the Bears would trade first round picks with the Cards and then I'd be giving up a 3rd and maybe 5th pick. I'm not sure where all that would be on the value chart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 First, let me throw out boring numbers: Moose had 750 yards, 64 catches, & 4 TD's his first season here in 2005. On one hand, he failed to live up to expectations from what he'd done in Carolina the previous year. On the other hand, considering in 2004 we were arguably the worst offense the NFL had ever seen, and he was getting the ball from a rookie QB, it wasn't that bad. He did follow that up with 860 yards, and 570 yards in 2006 & 2007. Hell, I'd have loved to have had a repeat of his 570 yards last season. Hester led the team 664 yards. The two guys who replaced Moose were Lloyd with 334, and Booker with 211. Rashied Davis was actually #2 with 445 yards. While our crappy offense is usually blamed on Orton, Turner, and our bad WR's, why isn't anyone bitching that it was a horrible mistake to let Moose go? I mention all this, because Boldin would make this team one helluva a lot better. Yet at the same time, if you're going to give up a #1, #3, and #5 PLUS 10 million per, you'd better make sure it's for a top-tier QB, and not just a guy who's going to make your QB look better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 While our crappy offense is usually blamed on Orton, Turner, and our bad WR's, why isn't anyone bitching that it was a horrible mistake to let Moose go? Mistake? Hardly. Moose threw 2 of his teammates under the bus and he was the one continually dropping the ball. Screw him. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Just curious. Are you comparing Moose w/ Boldin? No question our offense failed this year, but I don't think that minimizes our need for a WR. The key is, we need more than just one WR, regaredless how good. We need to drastically upgrade our OL too. That has been my issue all along w/ the idea of adding Boldin. I would absolutely love to see him in a Bears uniform, but if adding him comes at the expense of being capable of upgrading other aspects of the offense, I am not sure if it is worth it. Still, I do believe adding a WR like Boldin could have a dramatic effect on our offense. In our offense, Hester is our #1 WR by default. IMHO, if we were to add Boldin, Hester is dramatically upgraded as well. Further, w/ a greater passing attack, it is harder for defenses to (a) stack the box and ( blitz the QB. But again, it comes back to our ability to make other necessary upgrades. That brings it back to what it would take to get him. If we could get him w/o giving up our 1st, and we could use that 1st round pick on OL, I think the 1-2 punch would create a huge boost to our offense. First, let me throw out boring numbers: Moose had 750 yards, 64 catches, & 4 TD's his first season here in 2005. On one hand, he failed to live up to expectations from what he'd done in Carolina the previous year. On the other hand, considering in 2004 we were arguably the worst offense the NFL had ever seen, and he was getting the ball from a rookie QB, it wasn't that bad. He did follow that up with 860 yards, and 570 yards in 2006 & 2007. Hell, I'd have loved to have had a repeat of his 570 yards last season. Hester led the team 664 yards. The two guys who replaced Moose were Lloyd with 334, and Booker with 211. Rashied Davis was actually #2 with 445 yards. While our crappy offense is usually blamed on Orton, Turner, and our bad WR's, why isn't anyone bitching that it was a horrible mistake to let Moose go? I mention all this, because Boldin would make this team one helluva a lot better. Yet at the same time, if you're going to give up a #1, #3, and #5 PLUS 10 million per, you'd better make sure it's for a top-tier QB, and not just a guy who's going to make your QB look better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xvflutop Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Does anyone else notice how a lot of people on this board wouldn't give up a number 1 for Boldin, but there is a lot of people who think we need to go WR at #18? I say if the staff wants to get a WR at #18 then why not give it to AZ plus a second or third round pick in compensation for knowing Boldin isn't a bust. Its either that or flip that coin to see if we get a good WR. However if the staff doesn't want a WR at #18 then there is no way a trade could be made for Boldin. I know that if I felt inclined to take a WR in the first round I would absolutely give up a 1st and 2nd or 3rd round pick plus a 6th or 7th if it came down to it, just to know that I would be getting a quality player as opposed to a gamble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Point well made! Does anyone else notice how a lot of people on this board wouldn't give up a number 1 for Boldin, but there is a lot of people who think we need to go WR at #18? I say if the staff wants to get a WR at #18 then why not give it to AZ plus a second or third round pick in compensation for knowing Boldin isn't a bust. Its either that or flip that coin to see if we get a good WR. However if the staff doesn't want a WR at #18 then there is no way a trade could be made for Boldin. I know that if I felt inclined to take a WR in the first round I would absolutely give up a 1st and 2nd or 3rd round pick plus a 6th or 7th if it came down to it, just to know that I would be getting a quality player as opposed to a gamble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 While I agree, I would point out the following. (a) Roy Williams was not a huge distraction. If Boldin makes a big stink trying to force a trade, Az is not as likely to get full market value. ( Det traded RW during the season, to a team desperate. IMHO, the market is going to see a higher price for in-season deals than offseason deals. I doubt Az would agree to just a 2nd round pick, but also am not sold they will get as much as Det got, even though Boldin is a better receiver. Roy Williams was not a huge distraction, but Boldin is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Does anyone else notice how a lot of people on this board wouldn't give up a number 1 for Boldin, but there is a lot of people who think we need to go WR at #18? I say if the staff wants to get a WR at #18 then why not give it to AZ plus a second or third round pick in compensation for knowing Boldin isn't a bust. Its either that or flip that coin to see if we get a good WR. However if the staff doesn't want a WR at #18 then there is no way a trade could be made for Boldin. I know that if I felt inclined to take a WR in the first round I would absolutely give up a 1st and 2nd or 3rd round pick plus a 6th or 7th if it came down to it, just to know that I would be getting a quality player as opposed to a gamble. I have a feeling if you polled the people who want a receiver in the 1st, you would find the majority would trade our 1st for Boldin in a heart beat. I think what you are running up against is a large contingent that thinks there are greater needs than reciever in the 1st or simply better value with other positions of need. I would go out on a limb and say I would rather have OL, DE or CB before WR in the 1st. (those positions are more of an immediate premium and feel that any reciever we bring in will suffer until Orton gets the time he needs to throw) That being said, I wouldn't complain if we got Boldin with our 1st, as it would be a great question mark erased. In conclusion, it seems to be apples and oranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 I am not in Detroit, and maybe don't know the entire story on RW, but Boldin was screaming for a trade last year, and is expected to only scream louder this year. I don't recall such from RW, but as I said, may simply not know. Roy Williams was not a huge distraction, but Boldin is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Exactly! If I knew we were going to spend our 1st on a WR, then I too would rather simply get Boldin. The problem for me is, as great as our need for a WR is, we have numerous other needs as well. Thus why I talk about how I would trade our 2nd and 3rd (for example) if we would also use our 1st on OL. In that, we would see a huge upgrade at WR AND OL, rather than just WR. I think that is the problem most pro Boldin for a 1st guys are facing. We have many needs on this team. No question WR is one of them, but far from the only one. Most would love to have Boldin, but at the same time, see so many other needs that giving up so much just for WR is questionable. I have a feeling if you polled the people who want a receiver in the 1st, you would find the majority would trade our 1st for Boldin in a heart beat. I think what you are running up against is a large contingent that thinks there are greater needs than reciever in the 1st or simply better value with other positions of need. I would go out on a limb and say I would rather have OL, DE or CB before WR in the 1st. (those positions are more of an immediate premium and feel that any reciever we bring in will suffer until Orton gets the time he needs to throw) That being said, I wouldn't complain if we got Boldin with our 1st, as it would be a great question mark erased. In conclusion, it seems to be apples and oranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 I am not in Detroit, and maybe don't know the entire story on RW, but Boldin was screaming for a trade last year, and is expected to only scream louder this year. I don't recall such from RW, but as I said, may simply not know. Roy Williams has the attitude of a 6 year old in a store when he's on the field. He doesn't give a shit about anything but getting the ball. He may not have done it in public, but RW was a terrible teammate. I live in Michigan for school...they hated him. On the other hand, Calvin Johnson = God up here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 I'm one of the guys willing to draft WR in Rd 1 (Maclin) but I also would like to add Boldin but don't want to give up our 1st Rd pick. The difference for me is the $8-10 milllion/yr salary Boldin wants. It's not that he's not worth the salary that Berrian got, he is. But giving up a 1st rd pick plus giving up all that cap space when we have so many needs is not something I favor. In particular if we added Boldin I really want to use #18 on Oline in a strong draft for 1st Rd OTs. Bottom line is the old economics idea of opportunity cost. It's not necessarily what it costs to get Boldin but what I lose the opportunity to add when I do that. If I were to simply draft Maclin I would not have a WR as capable as Boldin, at least not at the start but I will also have enough extra money available to get the best FA FS on the market. Breaks down like this: Boldin + 2nd Rd Oline IS NOT GREATER THAN Maclin + 2nd Rd Oline + best FA FS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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