BearFan PHX

Ben Johnson's amazing offense in Detroit is run first too. He throws off of play action and the defense is gutted because LBers have to come up and respect the run with their offensive line. Also, i dont think Vrabel is stuck in the past any more than tough guy Dan Campbell is? Vrabel might bring in a guy like Josh McDaniels. He understands modern offense, and was kind of like Johnson is now, a well touted OC under a strong head coach (Belichick) who went on to fail as head coach twice. Youd surely get experience, and unlikely hed be offered head coaching jobs right away either? Then bring in Saleh as DC and youve got three great coaches, each on the position they do best, with three head coaches worth of experience between them. That's the pitch anyway

true, but Poles stayed with bad coaches when better choices were available too? Id give him a mixed grade - some hits, some misses, but more inconsistent than youd like in a guy you want to trust but are good coaches critical? absolutely!

Here is a great video about how Ben Johnson uses plays to set up other plays. How he leverages a strong offensive line into wide open middle passing routes. I just want to say i LOVE Ben Johnson as an OC. I wont belabor the point that I am unsure of him as a head coach here, but he is a really great OC. Maybe he will be a great head coach too. I just dont have any evidence either way which is why I'm on the fence. But this thread is about good football, and this certainly qualifies. You have to follow the link to youtube to see it, but its worth it if you havent yet. It's what every offensive coordinator SHOULD be doing - using plays and formations to scout tendencies and then using what you learn to set up your opponent for failure later in the game. As you watch this, you may wonder why we never seem to be doing anything like this. Also, it's interesting to note that Ben Johnson's mentor was John Shoop.

without knowing any of the players specifically, this seems right to me.

for sure - we see how bad coaching makes decent players awful in a unit. A bunch of Bears OL castaways are starting on other teams, and not looking like they did when they were here. Daniels, Patrick, Leno, there are one or two others I'm forgetting too. They look like absolute losers for us, and then go on to be serviceable for someone else. WRs too.

it's the unfair advantage that comes with winning. hopefully we enjoy it some day too!

I dont think we disagree, maybe I didnt say it right. Im saying that good teams have an edge on bad teams, so the chaos gets somewhat absorbed by their advantage. If the Chiefs are 8 points better, but the other team tries hard, a few things go their way, then they end up losing to the chiefs by 3. It's not like either team had an equal shot at being on the winning side of that 3 points. It's that the winning team was better than 3 points better, and so it absorbs the effort and chaos that flow through every game. The good teams don't lose close chaotic outcomes as often as the win them. So I was just saying that the bears haven't been "unlucky", even when theyve seemed close at the end. Its that they werent already up 3 at that time that they didnt win. Sure in each case they had a shot, but it was a shot from behind that didnt pay off. Not because of luck, but because we are bad, and were behind LOL

I think if you're a good team, you arent winning by such thin margins, and magical things dont cost you the win. I think as an NFL team you have to be aiming at winning by two scores to moderate the influence of turnovers and flukes. If your margin for victory is razor thin, then you look unlucky, when whatyou really are is bad, and little things are enough to cost you tenuous wins?

Ill check it out, thank you. I dont usually start draft stuff until after the superbowl, but thats a good place to look.

OK! So instead of rehashing what an awful situation we are in, and how much I want Vrabel lol I thought I'd start a thread about good football. Good coaching, smart plays. So here's an awesome fake punt, and the backstory on how they got there is even better. THAT is coaching!

Oh I didn't mean you were making excuses, I'm speaking just to the evaluation that happens in all of our minds. I'm guarding against myself putting too much faith in the reasons (or excuses) why it isn't really Brown's fault. Because it isn't. But that still doesn't mean he would be excellent if he was HC of the team in August, it just means we cant know either way. And in the hole we are in, that isn't enough in my view. I didnt think you were disagreeing.

so true. and it damns Eberflus even more, because not only did he allow the hail mary, but he was unable to stop the bleeding after and get us back on track. Here's where a guy like Vrabel could help. A fancy offensive gameplan wouldnt make a difference to that kind of locker room momentum - only a head coach who leads men can.

right, thats how I took it too. Maybe in a few months I'll be arguing "this guy is terrible" or "what a value to get that guy so low" but right now theyre just positions to me, and with legendary trade downs (all these draft games let you do that more than is probably likely) you end up with a ton of players at positions of need and it looks really good.

I think Shanahan always had that energy? I dont know much about Siriani. Like I said it doesn't have to be some cartoonish alpha, Shanahan isnt that, but you can see that he isnt begging players to buy in, he's leading. I see films of Johnson where other coaches are condescending to him, teasing him, and he takes a submissive role as an answer. I see films of people teasing Vrabel, and he gets a huge smiles and gives it right back. As for the OC position, if he brings in McDaniels, he's not going anywhere. I just think we are making a mistake thinking we should hire an OC to be OC from the HC position? Johnsons is as good an OC as there is, I totally agree. I'd LOVE to have him as our OC, but HC isnt OC, and i think a lot of people like sportswriters etc are missing that.

I really hope they dont screw this up, or take too long talking about it and lose him to someone else. he really would be a perfect fit for this city. I could see him here for a decade or longer. Like a real team. With a real coach. At this point it's either we go up from here, or total destruction, and becoming basically an expansion team starting from scratch, because Caleb, Jaylon Johnson and others simply aren't gonna sit around for 4 more years of corporate nonsense.

What you'd never hear from Eberflus or Nagy

Caleb IS the seed of hope, but he has a lot to carry on his back. And his own growth to attend to as well. Without him, we would have nothing firm to build on.

I dont know the players yet to have an opinion, but the trade down was certainly godly, and the positions you covered were good. Like you said, I dunno if youd have the priviledge to take a DT first and still fix your OL and EDGE. You did it here. If you could do it in reality, I'd fire Poles right now.

Yeah and watch Bagent win the game and all hell breaks loose LOL Please dont get me wrong, Ill take Caleb over Bagent for our future all day long, but it is possible that at this moment, Bagent would be better, since he gets the ball out of his hands so fast. And if Bagent has success, this circus will go up in massive flames. It's a hell of a risk, even as it seems like it's removing another risk. Trying to do the right thing for this dysfunctional team is pretty much impossible right now.

I completely agree that Johnson is an excellent OC. But what makes us think he will be a good HC? I dont see the alphness or leadership qualities in his interviews or mic'ed up footage. He doesnt need to be jacked up like Vrabel, but I look at a guy like McVey, who has a similar physicality to Johnson, and the energy is really different. The confidence and power is big with McVey, and not Johnson. Whoever our next coach is has to bring these players back from the edge. At best it is a gamble to think the Johnson will be able to do that - meaning, maybe he will, but it is unknown. I understand that looking at the smart offense Johnson runs why we would want that for us, for Caleb. If we were talking about OC, it'd be a no brianer - Id rather have Johnson than anyone else - I love the way he uses the running game, and his rhythm in playcalling, how he sets people up. It's all excellent. But head coach is not the same as OC, so make sure you dont fall in love with his offense without considering his ability as a head coach. I think it's a real risk at a time where we shouldnt be taking one. Think of Josh McDaniels. Hes a great OC. Maybe our next one But he has been a terrible head coach twice. Head coach and OC are not the same job. I wouldnt want Dan Campbell as our OC, but he is a really good HC. The dolphins hired Adam Gase to replace Campbell who had been interim head coach.Gase hed been a hot OC, but was a terrible head coach. For me, it's Vrabel easily. For head coach, not OC.

I totally agree. For many years I've followed one losing season after the next thinking "when they are finally good, all this suffering is going to make the result so sweet" But there is paying dues, and then there is insanity. Between Sunday Ticket, and YouTubeTV that I need to buy NFLST, I pay over a thousand dollars a year just to watch this team. And it's terrible. Over and over again. I still think Caleb can be great. I think with the right coach, we might be able to turn it around. But it's going to take more than a few draft picks. Some talented players are going to have to go to get this team right. I wont try to guess which ones can be saved, but there are some very talented players that i just dont know if i can ever trust on this team. Darnell Mooney is about to get 1,000 yards. Many of our OL rejects are playing well for other teams. There is a virus infecting everything, and bringing in players isnt going to be enough if they catch this BS from some of the guys we have. Guys who will go on to be great elsewhere too. Bringing in Ben Johnson isnt going to do it. I dont even know if bringing in Vrabel and quality coordinators is going to be enough. I dont think Ryan Poles has the strength of will to fix this, and I dont think Kevin Warren is some kind of football visionary either. And our owners. We should have run them out of town with pitchforks 10 years ago. I have never considered giving up on this team, but now, after 40 years of suffering (who are we kidding, the double doink team was no champion, and neither was the team thatlost to the Colts int he SB) Im seriously considering giving up on them and football all together. I will probably watch again for one more year. If we sign a good coach, I probably have one more try in me. But f*ck the McCaskeys. How dare they destroy this franchise. Someone should organize an online movement to not buy any merch until the Bears have a winning season. Maybe a total boycott if such a thing is even possible. Something that lets these jerks know that there is no more $ for them until the remove McCaskey from the chaimanship, and they have a winning season. There's probably nothing I can do, but the worst of it is that my anger is turning into apathy.

good point. McDaniels would be unlikely to leave for a HC job anytime soon Daboll would be good too. What do we think about Saleh as DC? I dont love the guy, but under Vrabel, it could work. Edit - well he was pretty good as DC for Shanahan in SF, and he was on Carrol's legion of boom team as a quality control assistant. Ill tell you what, if he brings in the Pete Carrol "theres only 5 ways to tackle someone" discipline, im ALL for it. and he preaches turnovers too. If we had three former HC on staff, itd be a huge departure from what weve had before thats for sure. More and more Im becoming convinced that Vrabel is the right answer for us.

I was just going on a report I heard where some ousted GM (from the Falcons maybe?) is being looked at for NE, and he and Vrabel have a connection? But I just read that, I dunno know if it's true or anything. But whoever it is, if we want the guy, we should move now. An exhaustive search doesnt help you if at the end you decide the guy you wanted is already gone.

yeah DM is a hell of a player. Love his heart and how much he gives of himself. I hope he heals quickly and fully.

there is no doubt Brown was an improvement over Waldron as OC. Brown didnt abandon the running game. But why are we not rolling Caleb out more? Where are the slant routes and other timing plays? Where is the short play action game? Brown was better, but not good enough. And again, I don't fully judge Brown for that, because to do that, you'd have to have the team from August where you can install your own playbook, habits, timing, all of that. But just because there are resons or excuses why it isn't working doesnt mean it would be great if Brown had had the team since the summer. So like I said, the most charitable thing I can say is that he is an unknown. And surely, this mess is not all on him 100%