AZ54

The Oline was impotent. How do all those free rushers escape observation?

We weren't going to do anything of note in the playoffs had we made it. Finishing 8-9 wasn't going to change anything on the coaching decision. I've often wondered if the strategy was to keep it simple in Wk 18. If we win, we win, but maintaining two top 10 picks is not a bad consolation prize. I hate losing to those arrogant pricks but kicking GB down to 19 in the draft (for the moment) doesn't bother me because it's outside the window of the top talent in this draft. Plus Jordan Love will be the same inaccurate QB under pressure he's always been and that 9th pick is prime pass rusher territory in this draft.

you could be right he might drop well into Day 3

Keeping Fields, double trade down first with AZ @ 4 then Tenn @ 7. Lately I tend to prefer Bowers (plus what I get in trade down) vs. MHJr in top 3. I get more value and I think Bowers is more of a unicorn that helps just as much in the running game as the passing game. Bowers can block LBs and DBs in space far better than MHJr. I can usually still add another really good WR2 prospect in this draft late 1st early 2nd. In this case Odunze fell to me at 21 so that's an easy win. I can also add a good WR3 prospect later. I love what Latu brings to the edge both in run game and pass rushing. He plays strong yet has lateral quickness very similar to Aiden Hutchinsen. He can rush from the inside too. Nubin to replace Jackson. Graham Barton is OG prospect but he's played some OC and that's where we move him. Brooks is a solid #2 RB with burst and good contact balance, plus excellent hands. He'll be a legit 3rd down RB for us. Hudson Clark looks like a good depth addition to safety as I'm not too enamored with Hicks. He's aggressive around the LOS and a little bit of a ball hawk in centerfield. He's also played special teams in college so he'll fit right in there to start in the NFL. Arizona's 1st in 2025 to keep the ball rolling.

...and yet nobody said give me more games with Siemian or Peterman because the offense is better.

I hope you are wrong.

SF and GB, plus a bunch of other teams, run offensive puppets behind their HC. Andy Reid did it for a very long time in Philly and KC before finally handing over play calling duties. I don't see complaints from team building experts about that.

I don't know where he got the data or evaluations on these QBs but I found it interesting that release time for Williams and Fields is nearly identical slow. Daniels concern is going to be his frame but other than that he seems like QB1. I don't know how well his shoulder holds up with 300lb DTs landing on it. While I know that's illegal per se but it still happens.

Oline is better in Houston, heck everyone's Oline was better than the Bears. We had one bright spot this year:

Makes sense for active roster on game day Whitehair has more position versatility and can backup all 3 interior spots. Maybe Carter was active too in that last game and didn't get the nod? Nah, just found it, he was inactive. I like the idea of getting a good OG prospect in the pipeline in this draft and I like Zak Zinter out of Mich. He had a badly broken leg late in the season, both tibia and fibula so his recovery is going to take a full year. Teams that need help this season will have to go elsewhere in the draft so he will drop. If the long term prognosis is good then we have insurance with Davis to hold down the fort until he's ready, even if that means a full season on IR. But we could have a stud at RG in 2025. If we get a comp pick #100 for Ian Cunningham leaving, then Zinter is my target there. Bears inactives WR Darnell Mooney RB D'Onta Foreman DB Greg Stroman Jr. OL Ja'Tyre Carter QB Tyson Bagent DB Quindell Johnson DB Jaylon Johnson

I find it interesting that all we are doing is searching for OCs. We don't even have a DC Search thread on this board. That is the priority but still odd and it makes me think Flus already knows who his DC is going to be. He doesn't have to rush that search since that individual might be busy in the playoffs. I have no clue who that might be if we ignore that the same logic should apply: Get on the DC search now ahead of other teams that are still figuring out GM/HCs. I say there is something to this that gives Flus enough confidence to let him focus fully on OC search now. Anyway, back to the OC search. I agree we must be almost fully sold on keeping Fields (which I agree with) and are trying to keep within the same or similar scheme with the new OC to maintain some continuity in the offense for him. These early candidates and their resumes make it so you just can't ignore that elephant in the room. What Waldron did in Seattle with Geno Smith is impressive. Of course he had some very good WR talent there but young Oline talent. I think he has to be the leading candidate and they were on the phone with him minutes after Carroll was fired (or whatever they called it). This college OC feels like a QB coach candidate, up and coming talent maybe not ready for NFL OC. Flus did some of that type of interviews / hires when he first arrived.

Adam Mason is back with a video on Fields. This is not the most comprehensive analysis by far but he does bring up some interesting points. Prior to seeing that, earlier today I was recalling how everyone was expecting Fields to have a breakout season like Jalen Hurts did in 2022. Except we all forgett Hurts has a Pro Bowl and maybe HoF center in Kelce and some other top Oline. At WR he's got AJ Brown and DeVonta Smith. Going into the season the Eagles Oline was ranked #1 by PFF... https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-2023-offseason (different sources) By midseason Eagles were still ranked #1 and the entire NFC North is in the top 10 except for one team. https://www.profootballnetwork.com/best-offensive-lines-nfl-rankings/ I can't read entire article but again end of season Eagles are #1. Its interesting to see Indy ranked #4 and it shows how you can make a QB like Minshew look good and win games with good Oline play. https://www.profootballnetwork.com/best-offensive-lines-nfl-rankings/

After giving a guy a fully guaranteed record setting deal no less. Imagine how you'd feel if you spent that $230 million only to see some dude come off his couch in the middle of the season and play better. That right there is why you should fire a GM.

The internet is undefeated. Stop using Google and explore the world. You can always find what you're looking for if you are a little persistent and creative.

Didn't Harbaugh start out at San Diego State or something like that? The Chargers aren't in San Diego anymore but I could see his ego loving the glamour world of LA. What constitutes a draft "expert"? What is that experts record?

I re-read my post just to be sure but I never said "generational franchise QB". I don't see that in these draftees. Doesn't mean one won't end up that way. "Historically there is always one good long term starting QB." IMO that is the most likely landing point with one of the top 3 QB draftees. That is the basis for my comparison to Fields. I also think Justin Fields can be a good long term starting QB. I think he's trending there based on his play in the 2nd half of the season but not there yet. I wouldn't put him in the generational talent either but that also doesn't mean he won't end up that way. If he gets there, it is going to be more along the path Roethlisberger followed. Interestingly Roethlisberger went to the Pro Bowl in 2007 when he only threw for 3100yds in 15 games. HIs first 4000 yd season was his 6th year.

I totally agree, Burrow had and still has some accuracy issues deep. Those concerns carried over to the draft. However, you can overcome that with the WRs he had at LSU and now in the NFL who are fantastic at adjusting to the ball. He's a much better processor of defenses than Fields and short to intermediate he'll slice you up. I don't see a similar talent in this draft. I think Caleb Williams is more of a creative QB at this point than pocket passer. Regardless, his mental toughness and leadership are my main concerns. Losing reveals character. Among the top 3, Maye might be closest to Burrow's style in the pocket but I think that's a stretch. Of course he also hasn't thrown to equivalent college receiving talent. I haven't watched but a single full game of Daniels since he left ASU so I'm mostly relying on input from this board to this point. When I watch all snaps of the Florida game (350yd passing, 200yd rushing) he reminds me a lot of Justin Fields. I don't see him throwing with a lot of anticipation. He bails out of the pocket sometimes unnecessarily and runs (great runner). Great deep ball. Oddly I find him to be the most intriguing of the top 3. Maybe because he could literally step right into the same offense as Fields and we wouldn't miss a beat. His slight frame is a concern in the NFL and we've seen how tough hits have been on Fields. All three have enough physical talent they will blow up the pre-draft process.

That is exactly the problem for me...there isn't a Joe Burrow, Andrew Luck, or Trevor Lawrence in this draft. Caleb Williams is supposed to be that guy. I haven't seen that in the games I watched but I didn't watch every USC game. Historically there is always one good long term starting QB from each NFL draft. Every 5 years you get two. As far as I can tell it's a reasonable gamble on any of the top 3 being that guy....which is just a 33% probability. Unless you believe there are two this year. Of course the most-excellent GMs in the NFL are all supposed to be able to figure out which one it will be. Yet even offensive geniuses like Shanahan in SF go after Trey Lance aggressively. Meanwhile Poles has had good success drafting talent at Dline/Oline and defensive backfield. WR is a clear miss IMO (at best an incomplete if Scott learns how to catch), RB is ok with Roschon but just ok. So what do we really know with Poles drafting offensive skill players? That's why after Fields' improvement in the 2nd half of the season I flipped away from the draft Jedis. I believe Fields has shown he can be a top 15 QB especially with the right OC. That also includes better talent in front of and around him. All draft picks have odds of success. Get more picks improve your chances of finding good players. We still need a lot of them. The one bet I'm willing to make: I'm 100% certain one of the top 3 QBs will be the guy and everyone will say we should have drafted him.

Run away from that.

Two years ago nobody with experience wanted these jobs (OC/DC). Flus had trouble finding his DC for sure and eventually settled on Williams but he was clearly never his first choice. This time around we have the phone ringing with people calling to be on the list and we start out of the gate with two of the top candidates on our wish list (not necessarily the same as Poles/Flus list).

I'm waiting on the combine to get a better sense of where Newton fits in. I have concerns about his length and he's not Aaron Donald elite with his athleticism to get around that.

A team typically carries 4 QBs in camp. Might not be anything more than that.

I'd phrase it differently but yeah: Do you know when to call/utilize quick slants? Against which type of defenses and what situations? What are your counter plays to the quick slants and when/why would you call those plays? I don't really care about B2B plays if they are effective. I know that's not practical in most situations but for all I care we can run off-tackle for 8 yds a pop all game long if they can't stop it. Last year, or maybe a couple years back, the Packers just ran screen after screen against our D and we couldn't stop it. Just don't go assuming the next opponent has the same weakness or that it's your strength against everyone. Would you call the same play if you weren't gaining any yards? Would you call those WR screens and put your 175lb rookie receiver as the primary blocker? This is where on-the-field talent has to match up with game plan/scheme. Bad memories.

Yeah but watching some film, usually of other players like Dexter, he seems to get pushed around an awful lot. Sometimes 5 yards downfield. Seems like it's hit or big miss with him. OTC says he's worth $6mil/yr again like his recent deal with us, but I'd rather find someone young with more upside for that position. I'd take a shot on Chris Jones if he remains available and he's still asking around $20mil/yr. If you prefer an ideal Poles target check out Madubuike, 26yr old entering his prime. He's got the quick first step you need at 3-tech and has some power to his game. The Ravens have just $17mil in cap space for 2024 and that's with only 44 players rostered and no easy big money cap cuts. They can free up maybe $10-15mil if they cut a few players but the rookie pool will eat up $10mil. Rostering 9 (or 12) players with $17mil gets eaten up fast and their FAs are some of their good players not the least of which is Patrick Queen. OTC has Madubuike valued at $15.5mil/yr but popular FAs always get overpaid, and pass rushers with 10 sacks are in demand, so he'll likely get closer to $18mil/yr. Paired up with Sweat on the outside, Dexter on the nose, and a top 10 DE at RDE and no QB is going to have much time to throw. Just need to add a good safety and the D is complete. With Madubuike and the DE that need drops a bit. Plus there appears to be some decent vet FA options we might be able to fill with a $5mil/yr deal. You got 1 draft pick for DE and all other picks can be offense if you want. Rookie pools: https://overthecap.com/draft https://overthecap.com/free-agency/baltimore-ravens