'TD'

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3241124 Updated: February 11, 2008, 4:06 PM ET * Comment * Email * Print MIAMI -- Quarterback Trent Green was acquired by the Miami Dolphins last year as part of a plan to turn the franchise's fortunes around. Trent Green Green Not surprisingly, Bill Parcells' ideas differ from the previous model. In the Dolphins' first major player purge since Parcells took charge of Miami's football operations, the team parted ways with Green, wide receiver Marty Booker and seven other players Monday -- ushering in the start of what's expected to be a massive offseason roster shakeup by the rebuilding franchise. "This is never easy, especially since all of these players worked hard during their tenure here," new Dolphins' general manager Jeff Ireland said. Other notable cuts by the Dolphins included tackle L.J. Shelton and massive defensive tackle Keith Traylor, both of whom were starters. Miami also waived tackle Anthony Alabi, defensive tackle Anthony Bryant, tackle Marion Dukes, defensive tackle Marquay Love and tackle Joe Toledo. Most of these moves were expected, and more will undoubtedly follow over the coming weeks as Miami looks to retool following its 1-15 season. The Dolphins haven't made the playoffs in six seasons, the longest stretch in franchise history. Green was placed on injured reserve in October after his second severe concussion in 13 months, and the 37-year-old may contemplate retirement. Traylor suggested at times last season that his 16th season may be his last. Booker caught 50 passes in 2007, but managed only one touchdown for the second time in his four seasons with the Dolphins. Shelton started all 32 games during his two-year stay with the Dolphins and had two years left on his contract in Miami. "I want to thank all of them for their contributions to the Dolphins and wish them good luck," Ireland said. Parcells has already reshaped the front office, firing general manager Randy Mueller and other members of the team's player personnel staff. The coaching staff was rebuilt, most notably with Tony Sparano brought in to replace Cam Cameron. With the start of free agency Feb. 29, Parcells' eye has clearly turned toward the roster. "In the case of each of the veterans, it's especially difficult to release players who have been productive and valued members of the organization," Ireland said. "However, we feel these decisions are in the best interest of the team." Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press

"Then, during the 2003 season, Ed McCaskey died, thus spreading out the shares he had, and allowing the other McCaskey children to take the majority share away from Virginia and Michael McCaskey. Thus this led to Angelo finally being elevated to full GM and powers (instead of name only). It also signaled the end of Dick Jauron, who was fired at the end of the season." I wasn't even thinking, but Ed McCaskkey turned over the reigns long before he died. In 99 they brought in Phillips to run things. Virginia votes all of the stock for their family 80%ish, and there was never a consortium of the "Other kids" that over through Michael and Virginia. In fact, I think Ed didn't even own stock. Plus, Ed didn't die during the "2003 season". He died in the beginning of April. That blows up that guys whole story.

I never knew that. I actually did look around prior to questioning him, but didn't find anything. I may have been searching wrong. The closest thing I found was that he couldn't fire Jauron immediately. I'm not completely sold given the source of wiki. Does that mean Jauron was responsible for Briggs, Tillman and Brown?

I'm not calling you wrong, but I've never read that Angelo was a Paper GM before. I thought the only limitation JA had was he couldn't fire Jauron his first year. I always took it as he was drafting more for Jauron's Defense then the one he wanted (Tampa 2). I know he is more on the same page as Lovie then Jauron, but I'm pretty sure he had control over the players.

I got bored and went through the drafts and got the Bears picks. Its possible I missed something, but wanted to try to put it together. EDIT: I Forgot 2002 2002 1st Marc Colombo (OT) 2nd Roosevelt Williams (CB) 3rd Terrence Metcalf (G) 4th Alex Brown (DE) 5th Bobby Gray (S) 5th Bryan Knight (LB) 6th Adrian Peterson (RB) 6th Jamin Elliot (WR) 6th Bryan Fletcher (TE) End Edit 2003 1st Michael Haynes (DE) 1st Rex Grossman (QB) 2nd Charles Tillman (CB) 3rd Lance Briggs (LB) 4th Todd Johnson (S) 4th Ian Scott (DT) 5th Bobby Wade (WR) 5th Justin Gage (WR) 5th Taron Lafavor (DT) 6th Joe Odom (LB) 6th Brock Forsey (RB) 7th Bryan Anderson (G) 2004 1st Tommy Harris (DT) 2nd Tank Johnson (DT) 3rd Bernard Berrian (WR) 4th Nathan Vasher (CB) 4th Leon Joe (LB) 5th Claude Harriott (DE) 5th Craig Krenzel (QB) 7th Alfonso Marshall (DB) 2005 1st Cedric Benson (RB) 2nd Mark Bradley (WR) 4th Kyle Orton (QB) 5th Airese Currie (WR) 6th Chris Harris (S) 7th Rod Wilson (LB) 2006 2nd Danieal Manning (S) 2nd Devin Hester (CB/KR/WR/PR) 3rd Dusty Dvoracek (DT) 4th Jamar Williams (LB) 5th Mark Anderson (DE) 6th D.J. Runnels (FB) 6th Tyler Reed (G) 2007 1st Greg Olsen (TE) 2nd Dan Bazuin (DE) 3rd Garrett Wolfe (RB) 3rd Michael Okwo (LB) 4th Josh Beekman (G) 5th Kevin Payne (S) 5th Corey Graham (CB) 7th Trumaine McBride (CB) 7th Aaron Bryant (OT)

It's not about getting a quarterback that can come in and tear it up right away. It's about getting a stong canidate to be that guy that can tear it up in the future and win then. That's the best you can hope for out of any position. While some are best suited for immediate starters, none are expected to tear it up. If you want to keep relying on defense, set an all time record for QB turn around, and complain about the offense every year, then by all means ignore QB. If you want a chance at the next best thing, or atleast good enough, then you go draft a guy. Very rarely do teams let good QB's go.

It's sort of pointless to discuss it with you if you can't see a need at QB. There's not one team in the NFL that would sign either Grossman or KO to be their undisputed starter. The best they could hope for is competition, and I couldn't say either would be favorites to win. WR sounds like a sexy pick. It really doesn't really matter tho until the Bears get someone to throw to them. RB sounds nice, but with a good line any team can run. JA will be bringing someone in FA or mid rounds of the draft to compete. I really don't see how this will effect drafting a QB. Safety is no where near as important as QB. An adequate replacement can easily be filled in FA.

I'm not saying they aren't good in their rolls on the team now. Most of their rolls tho is back up or special teams. That's good, but the bears do not need a back up right now and QB's don't do special teams(other then kick holder). The Bears need a starting QB. While I didn't doom him because he's from a small college, I credited Romo, I still think for a QB, the step from I-AA to NFL is huge. He most likely wouldn't get away with all of the running around in the pocket he does in the highlights if it was the NFL.

Why exactly? This year will be the same. Neither Woodson, nor flacco will start. Flacco most likely taking longer to develop, with the higher chance of failure. I'm not going to say he will be, but if the Bears spend a second round pick, they will stick with him till he develops or fails. An offensive lineman will likely not start this year. If he does, he will most likely be a liability until next year. I fail to see how a first round QB would doom the team next year. I also fail to see why Woodson is a worse project for the next 4-5 years then Flacco.

With Tillman being the only starter. The rest being back ups or special teams.

I just think a trade down is pointless. Odds are atleast Otah and Woodson will be available at 14. There's a strong possibility another tackle and/or QB will drop too. With the Bears not having a true LT in years or QB ever, it would be idiotic to trade down IMHO. I know the Bears have holes to fill, but sometime JA has to man up and go quality over quanity.

I could see JA drafting him. I just hope he don't turn out as most of JA's small school prospects do (D. Manning). His highlights are obviously against rather small schools. It's impossible to tell how that will transfer on an NFL field. I'm not saying he is doomed, Romo came from an I-AA, but historically I-AA success hasn't carried over well. I also hope he won't be an Alex Smith who was drafted on a good combine and prototypical build for a QB. I won't say I don't want to see him drafted. It depends on how the draft and FA shapes up. If Brohm, Ryan, and Woodson are all gone at 14 for some unforeseen reason, I wouldn't mind seeing him drafted in the second or third. If the Bears go OT in the first, while only Woodson is available, I might be able to live with him drafted in the second or third If the Bears go any other position then OT or QB or trade down in the first, and one of those 3 are available , even Woodson, I'll be irate.

I disagree that OLine will contribute any sooner than a QB from the draft. They need time to develop, very few are solid additions their first year. In fact, with the shake up people are wanting with the line even veteran additions will take time. A line can take a year or 2 to "gel" in itself when this many additions are expected.

Roethlisberger had the second highest QB rating this season(104.1). He was third in the league with 32 TD's, and only had 12 int's. That's a little better then average imo. He had arguably the best season at QB this year next to Tom Brady. Jay Cutler didn't lead his team to the play offs this year. Denver's D let up over 400 points this season(2nd worse in the AFC). His only other year in the league, they missed it but he was a rookie, and played in the last 5 games. He's still, to the best of my knowledge, had a higher QB rating than anyone in bears history. That's exactly what Grossman has did with this team, held it hostage. It's time to stop having him hold the team back with is poor play, and move to the next experiment. Yea, I want to win now. I also want to win in the future. There's just no QB available in FA that will guarantee a win now situation. That's why I want to get someone to win in the future, and find someone that can get us by until then. Had San Fran not drafted a QB based soley on the combine, they may not be in the position they are in. They would still suck, as the rest of their team does, but have something at QB in Rodgers. If Woodson or some how Brohm drops, I think you have to draft one of the guys at 14. It's not likely Brohm will drop, but no one thought Quinn would drop as much as he did last year. I think Woodson wil be there for sure.

double post

I agree, I just don't see McNabb as a possibility. I want to see a plan in place this year. That's why I'm so hard core, draft a QB. I want it one in the first, as it has the highest success rate, but still a big gamble. My personal favorite would be to sign Losman, draft a first round QB, and keep Griese as insurance until it's cap friendly to cut ties.

An average NFL QB would be a God in Chicago. When is the last time Chicago had a QB in the upper half of the league in QB rating? According to your top 10, undrafted does match first rounders, but every other round combined only has one more then the first. This team needs a QB. It's not going to come in FA. I would also rather stake the Bears future on a first rounder then a Random UFA. The number of UFAs far outweigh the number of first round picks selected. Of course a couple are going to shine through. Maybe I missed the point of your post, tho. You started out by listing Manning and Grossmans career stats. They both suck, ok. You then compare him to 2 second year QB's, "not hand picked". Well let's look at the drafts back to Mannings. Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, and JP Losman were drafted the same year as Manning. Big Ben is a Top QB in the league. Rivers has had a nice start to his career. Losman, while not great, has still outperformed Grossman and Manning. If you want to throw in Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers, fine. Smith has been horrible so far on a horrible team. Rodgers had a 100 QB rating this year and looks to be a solid replacement for Farve. Jason Campbell took over for the Skins this year and played well himself compared to Grossman/Manning. Vince Young in his second year is bad as a pure QB. That was sort of expected, but the stuff left out is what made him a probowler. Matt Lienart hasn't came around. That was sort of unexpected, but I'll give you that. However, you left out Jay Cutler. Cutler has an over 88 QB rating so far. I still don't see why that would give the Bears a reason not to draft a QB. You don't want an average QB, but Grossman has been below average. No better then average QB's will be available in FA. You don't want to draft a QB in the first. What's your plan for solving the QB situation?

That's only 3 games. Plus, Minny wasn't on Griese. He brought the team back. The D, Minnies AP, and the coverage on the last kick off costed us that game. I don't see how you can cost a team the season as a back up and you only played in less then 6.5 games. I think I laid out 10 better reasons we lost this season then Griese. Griese was used wrong this year anyways. Out of the 6 games he played a majority of the game, he only threw for under 40 attempts once. That was the win in Green bay. Vs. the Lions he had 40 and 52 attempts. Vs. Minny he had 45 attempts. Vs. Philly 41 attempts. Vs. Wash 45 attempts. The exception was the win in Green Bay when he only had 25 attempts. The Bears are going to lose when they have to pass that much. The Bears lost every game this year when they threw over 35 times except for vs. Philly. That also doesn't fit Griese. Once again, I am not defending his play. He sucked, but not as bad as the other QB's.

It really doesn't enforce it in my opinion. Right now, here's a break down of the top 20 rated QB's this season. First round: 8 2nd round: 2 3rd round: 1 4th round: 2 5th round: 0 6th round: 3 Undrafted: 4 You picked bad QB's to enforce your point. Bad, is bad, is bad. That's all there is too it. In the long run, more QB's turn out from the first round then they do any other round. The first round dominates that break down.

I think any of the top 3 prospects are worth the gamble at 14. I think Tait will be fine at LT, and a few FA could make the line good again. A QB is a need this team won't be able to fill anyway but the draft. It may not be an immediate fix, but neither will a drafted lineman.

I said he sucked. I just don't think he sucked as bad as the rest. Grossman has a better arm, but sucks despite it. Orton didn't show much progress after 2 years on the bench and a year of starting. They all sucked. I just think Griese sucked the least of the 3. Hence, I don't think he was the cause of the bad season. I don't agree with the list in his sig. I would have to go with this.... 1) Lovie - He's the head Coach. He did poorly, and responsible for the staff. Doesn't see mistake in Turner. Fired Rivera for Bablich. Wanted Arch. 2) JA - He got complacent and made no productive offseason moves. Got cocky in the draft (Wolfe) Responsible for Lovie and his staff. Doesn't see mistake in Turner. 3) Turner - He had a horrible year. I want to put him first, but I think the 2 guys responsible for him should be first. 4) The Offensive line. nuff said. 5) Bablich - Probably only Lovies yesman, had injuries, but the D took a major dip. 6) Rex Grossman - Played horrible enough to lose his job in 3 games. Forced to go with Plan B and later Plan C. 7) Harry Hienstand, Luke Butkus, Charles London, Darryl Drake, and Tim Spencer- Every single offensive position coach minus the TE one. His players played well. 8) Rusty Jones and Tim Authur, Strength and conditioning, and his assistant. Too many injuries this year. 9) Lorenzo Neal for the cheap shot on Mike Brown that took him out for the season 10a) Arch and any one involved with his deal thats not yet listed. 10b.) Cedric Benson

You think Griese cost us the season? He had a highest QB rating on the team. He completed the highest percentage of passes by far(61.2% to 54.2%RG and 53.8%KO). He had the most yards (1800+) and yards per attempt on the team(6.9BG, 6.3RG, and 6.0KO). He had the most TD's and 2nd best TD to TO ratio( KO 3-2, 10-13BG, and 4-10 RG). He was sacked 3/5ths of the times as Grossman. I'm not saying he was good, he wasn't. He sucked. The rest of the QB's on the team sucked worst. The only QB without a losing record this season was Kyle Orton, and both wins were meaningless. Plus, he wasn't even supposed to start this year. You can thank Grossman for that.

What UFA QB is worth anything this year? There is absolutely nothing worth having. There rarely is. When there is, there are teams fighting for them. I hate to say it, but the Bears will never win that fight. The history on offense isn't attractive. If the Bears want anything more then a game manager, it's going to have to be in the draft. That's why I want the Bears to draft a QB at 14 if one of the big 3 slips. I think one or two will. A line can be built through FA. Safety can be filled for much less then a first round pick. This team needs to take a gamble for a Franchise QB. The draft is the only way they will get it. It will take a couple years to see if it pans out. That's nothing new to the Bears tho. They have never had a franchise QB.

We need to keep bringing in prospects till we hit pay dirt. That means Orton and Grossman must go, neither are going to be able to fill the role. Grossman has had 5 years and should be there by now, but still isn't close. Orton just looks like he'll never be there. Griese can stay if nothing is available in FA. He's not great, but he was a good mentor to Orton. I would drop him for something better. This year has good prospects at QB, and if we don't get one, that's just another year we'll have to wait added to development time. There's some good OT's available, but they will need as long as a QB to develop. This team isn't paticularlly great developing OLmen either. They are successful at bringing in FA's for the Oline. The Bears have never had a franchise QB. It's time to do all they can to get one.

To me that is the problem, Orton wasn't exactly hot. McKee isn;t exactly a great receiver. It was a stupid gamble in my opinion, because of the potential for bad execution.