Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Who do we take? I say Clady or Oher... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 OT - Clady, Baker, Otah (in that order). I think 14 is a tad high for Otah, but just about right for Clady and Baker. S - Kenny Phillips - S from Miami. Could be gone, as he could be a top 10 pick, but if there, he would be tough to pass on. Miami seems to pump out great S' and TEs. After adding Hester and Olsen, Phillips could be another great pickup. QB - Ryan, Woodson, Brohm - I don't know a ton about these guys, but they are all considered top 15 picks. I have seen any of the three listed as high as top 5 to closer to 15, so who knows. There are a couple good things that I see so far. (1) This appears to be a good to great year for OTs, and LTs in particular. I think most would agree this is a small need of ours. (2) When you look at most mock drafts, DL and CB is so littered at the top half of the 1st round that Phillips and some OTs may we drop. If it were not for some of those players, the OTs go sooner. Right now, I think Clady is my top choice, followed by Phillips, then Baker, then Otah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 OT - Clady, Baker, Otah (in that order). I think 14 is a tad high for Otah, but just about right for Clady and Baker. S - Kenny Phillips - S from Miami. Could be gone, as he could be a top 10 pick, but if there, he would be tough to pass on. Miami seems to pump out great S' and TEs. After adding Hester and Olsen, Phillips could be another great pickup. QB - Ryan, Woodson, Brohm - I don't know a ton about these guys, but they are all considered top 15 picks. I have seen any of the three listed as high as top 5 to closer to 15, so who knows. There are a couple good things that I see so far. (1) This appears to be a good to great year for OTs, and LTs in particular. I think most would agree this is a small need of ours. (2) When you look at most mock drafts, DL and CB is so littered at the top half of the 1st round that Phillips and some OTs may we drop. If it were not for some of those players, the OTs go sooner. Right now, I think Clady is my top choice, followed by Phillips, then Baker, then Otah. I have to agree we go with the best OT available. Although what surprises me is that I keep hearing people say that we'll draft a LT, and immediately move Tait back to RT. That's great in theory, but isn't there a huge learning curve? I'd much rather draft a LT and start him at LG for a year before making the switch. Especially since in the past Tait has wanted to know well in advance if he'd be switching positions. As bad as our 0-line play has been this season, it could be even worse with a bad rookie. As for the QB, we have to many other offensive wholes to fill before we address that spot. In other words, with a bad line, bad WR's, and bad RB's, our QB will suck reguardless. Hell, with the money guards are being paid, drafting a good replacement for Ruben Brown at #14 would be great. Supposedly there are good tackles who will be available via free agency. Either way, we need to fix the line before we can fix the rest of our offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 I have to agree we go with the best OT available. Although what surprises me is that I keep hearing people say that we'll draft a LT, and immediately move Tait back to RT. That's great in theory, but isn't there a huge learning curve? I'd much rather draft a LT and start him at LG for a year before making the switch. Especially since in the past Tait has wanted to know well in advance if he'd be switching positions. As bad as our 0-line play has been this season, it could be even worse with a bad rookie. As for the QB, we have to many other offensive wholes to fill before we address that spot. In other words, with a bad line, bad WR's, and bad RB's, our QB will suck reguardless. Hell, with the money guards are being paid, drafting a good replacement for Ruben Brown at #14 would be great. Supposedly there are good tackles who will be available via free agency. Either way, we need to fix the line before we can fix the rest of our offense. One. Sure, it is no guarantee a rookie could play LT, but you have to take a shot. I would say if the rookie wasn't ready to play LT, he would more likely start at RT. But I believe several rookie OTs started as rookies on the left side in the last couple years, and several did quite well. Two. I do not believe many expect to draft a rookie QB and play him right away. I believe most who want to draft a rookie QB are looking beyond 2008. You get him now, and let him begin his development, while you at the same time fix other areas. Then when he does start, you hopefully have holes filled before he takes over. Three. as for drafting an OG in the 1st, I have not seen any studs who are considered top 15 picks, while there are as many as 4 OTs who are. Further, while the price for OGs can be high in FA, OTs are even more expensive, and frankly, harder to find that top talent. Hutchinson is an elite OG. How often do you see an elite OT in FA? They are rarely available, and thus if you want a stud, you need to draft one. I think we would be better off drafting an OT like Clady, and then spending money on an OG like Faneca. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears4Ever_34 Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 If those two offensive tackles are gone before we pick then we go Kenny Phillips and if he's gone then the best available player.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixote Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 1st, FORGET QB in the first, a luxury we can not afford. The only player who may possibly be available at 14 that would tempt me NOT to draft a LOT first would be Phillips. With the depth of the draft for OL, and our need to solidify our Safety position, unless we pick up a player like Hamlin in FA, Phillips would be hard to pass on if available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Ryan Clady and Jeff Otah are the only real OT prospects worth the 14th pick. Sam Baker, I could see him falling to the 3rd and he is in no way worth the 14th pick. I'd rather reach on Duke Robinson (if he declares) with the 14th pick. QB, we still need a guy for the future... Safety, perhaps... My big board is: 1. Ryan Clady 2. Jeff Otah 3. Kenny Phillips 4. Duke Robinson 5. Brian Brohm 6. Andre' Woodson Ryan Clady would be the ideal pick as he would be able to start at LT right away for us and shift Tait to RT. Otah on the other hand, would likely have to start at RT before being moved to LT, and that's only if the org. feals he can play LT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Why do you have Baker graded so low. Most everything I have read not only has him as a 1st round pick, but higher than Otah. I think Otah went into the year graded higher, but since, Baker seems to have passed him on most boards. So why do you believe Baker is not only behind Otah, but could drop a couple rounds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iguana Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 1st, FORGET QB in the first, a luxury we can not afford. The only player who may possibly be available at 14 that would tempt me NOT to draft a LOT first would be Phillips. With the depth of the draft for OL, and our need to solidify our Safety position, unless we pick up a player like Hamlin in FA, Phillips would be hard to pass on if available. Agree 100%, Pix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixote Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Football's Future (a good draft website) has Baker as the number 2 OT prospect and high on their overall board. I am not speaking first hand here as I have already admitted not having time to watch the college scene this year, but this is what they have to say about Baker: Sam Baker OT 6'5 305 USC By: Robert Davis Baker redshirted his first season at USC, and has been in the starting lineup since stepping on the field. He was a freshmen AA in 2004, then became an All American his sophomore and junior years as well. He enters as one of the top tackle prospects in the nation, and is a Playboy AA. Baker is an excellent all around offensive tackle prospect. He is a four year starter at left tackle for USC, and has done an excellent job keeping John David Booty and Matt Leinart clean. He is a solid athlete, with the ability to move well laterally, keeping defenders away from his QB in pass protection. Baker is also sound at the point of attack, and can push defenders around to clear out room in the running game. It is hard to criticize Baker’s game, but if pressed, it is that he does not have any one truly amazing physical trait. He is not a mammoth offensive lineman that can just drive defenders into the ground, and he’s not the athletic freak that can mirror every end he faces. He also had knee surgery in January, and will need to prove everything is clear with that as the season approaches. Sam Baker is a well known prospect, and enters the year as a solid first rounder. He has a chance to rival Jake Long as the first tackle selected, but should be taken in the Top 25 in any circumstance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Why do you have Baker graded so low. Most everything I have read not only has him as a 1st round pick, but higher than Otah. I think Otah went into the year graded higher, but since, Baker seems to have passed him on most boards. So why do you believe Baker is not only behind Otah, but could drop a couple rounds? He is soft, isn't a good run blocker, still needs to bulk up, and there is still question to him being a T or a G. Some people think he is a 1st round prospect but others think he is a 2nd or 3rd round prospect. I'm in the later... he really should have came out after his junior year, the extra year just gave scouts more time to see his flaws. Also, coming into this college year Baker was rated much higher then Otah, but Otah dominated throughout the season and is now rated a lot higher by a lot of scout. PS, the best draft website is www.nfldraftcountdown.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chwtom Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 I'd rather take Phillips or Johnathan Stewart in the first, and sign a tackle through free agency, and some other linemen in the 2nd-3rd round. OT and WR take too long to develop to justify taking them in the first round imo. I'd rather take someone like a safety or RB who can step in right away and make an impact. Unfortunately, short of cutting Benson, there might not be room on the roster whith A-pete and Wolfe around. I think Carloina has Jordan Gross and another tackle potentially hitting the market, the Steelers will lose Starks and Faneca, and the Cowboys might lose Hotel Adams. So there is talent out there ready to step in immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenom283 Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 PS, the best draft website is www.nfldraftcountdown.com Yeah its the most accurate and the least retarded of most of the other Draft sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Question w/o inteding insult. Do you watch the USC games, or are you just going off NFLCountdown. For the record, I have that website in my favorites, and it is one I use as well. I would not say it is the best. Since Buchbaum dies, frankly, I do not find any one so far an above the rest. I simply try to use them all. Anyway, I ask because your comments very much mirror NFLCountdowns. I personally like both, but feel Baker is in fact a solid 1st round LT prospect. Further, while I like Otah, there are aspects about him that make me question his value for us. One. I see him being a RT. I realize he is a solid athlete despite his size, but he does tend to have trouble w/ speed rushers, and I think his size will only grow. I see him as a RT in the NFL. That is a need for us, but ideally, we would be far better served finding a LT and moving Tait over. Two. One site talks about how he is still a fairly raw player and will need good coaching to develop at the next level. Sorry, but I have little confidence in our staff in this regard. I tend to believe players that develop on our squad are players that would develop anywhere, and those who need the extra coaching turn out like Daniel Manning. So I still grade Baker between Clady and Otah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixote Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 PS, the best draft website is www.nfldraftcountdown.com Not sure, but any site who has us taking QB Woodson (12th ?) in the first with OLT Clady still on the board loses a little "flavor" for me. Looks like a good site, but never did like seeing all the boards (and there are many) showing us taking Woodson. I would not like that selection at all for us in the 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flea Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 pix yya got a link to that draft site? I miss all the draft links on the front of bearstalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Problem is, while you can find RTs and OGs in FA, stud LTs simply do not hit the market. Sorry, but it is not that difficult to get yourself a S or a RB in FA, but it in order to get a franchise LT, you almost always have to do so through the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixote Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 pix yya got a link to that draft site? I miss all the draft links on the front of bearstalk BearSox likes nfldraftcountdown.com I personally like FootballsFuture.com Not sure which link you were asking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flea Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 the 2nd thanks Pix, have draftcoutdown saved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixote Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Let me know how you like Football's Future site. I like the reviews, the mock seemed solid (had us taking Clady at 14th), had current NFL news, and FA prospects. Seemed to me like one of the better sites I have visited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Question w/o inteding insult. Do you watch the USC games, or are you just going off NFLCountdown. For the record, I have that website in my favorites, and it is one I use as well. I would not say it is the best. Since Buchbaum dies, frankly, I do not find any one so far an above the rest. I simply try to use them all. Anyway, I ask because your comments very much mirror NFLCountdowns. I personally like both, but feel Baker is in fact a solid 1st round LT prospect. Further, while I like Otah, there are aspects about him that make me question his value for us. One. I see him being a RT. I realize he is a solid athlete despite his size, but he does tend to have trouble w/ speed rushers, and I think his size will only grow. I see him as a RT in the NFL. That is a need for us, but ideally, we would be far better served finding a LT and moving Tait over. Two. One site talks about how he is still a fairly raw player and will need good coaching to develop at the next level. Sorry, but I have little confidence in our staff in this regard. I tend to believe players that develop on our squad are players that would develop anywhere, and those who need the extra coaching turn out like Daniel Manning. So I still grade Baker between Clady and Otah. I have seen him only a little to be honest... looking forward to watching how he plays today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Let me work on getting the chat room up in the next day and than I'll get a drop down section with draft links on the top of the forum that can be easily accessed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted January 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 If those two offensive tackles are gone before we pick then we go Kenny Phillips and if he's gone then the best available player.. I agree w/o a doubt. Lovie and JA get criticized for sometimes taking the best player available but it works out pretty well for the most part, for example- Devin Hester, but with an exception to Daniel Manning. I think if Phillips is there when we pick we take him. That's just my gut feeling, although I still want an O-Line man, and I still feel that's our biggest need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flea Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Likin the look of it so far Pix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Iirc, Oher is staying. Has Boone or Loadholt made a decision yet? The more tackles, the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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