bradjock

Disagree. I would say this is a wash. LeFevour has proven nothing, and should not be considered an upgrade. Hanie has more experience reading playbooks and in practice, but I am not sure I would say the difference is enough to warrant an upgrade grade. To me, this is a wash. LeFevour looks like he has the tools to be a back-up NFL quarterback. Apparantly Hanie has those same tools. Last year we didn't have 3 QB's who could say that. Upgrade. Disagree. There are questions about Forte, but as he played through injury last year, it seems there is not great reason to knock him too much. And frankly, as he is the starter, does it matter if we are having a discussion about depth. Taylor is a large upgrade over KJ. IMHO, even if KJ were healthy, Taylor would be an upgrade. And don't get me started on the very average AP. Taylor alone gives the bears better depth than what we had last year. You're right. My only argument was that this is about sheer depth. One, I thought Pace would be a bust. That aside, Pace was a starter and not depth. To me, depth is little different as Shaffer was our top backup OT last year and this year. Beekman was our top OG backup last year, and likely again this year. I see little difference here. With Shaffer moving back to tackle, I'll say that positions the same. But who the hell's the starting LG? If Beekman's the starter, who's the back-up? Until Louis or the other guy proves they're not practice squad material, this position is weakened. Disagree. We lost Williams, but also added Shaw (late in season) and added Iwuh, a veteran who was rated ahead of Shaw on previous team. I am not sure either are really lesser depth than Williams. Not saying we upgraded, but simply not sure I would say we really downgraded either. Shaw is strictly a special teams guy. Jamar Williams is penciled in to start in Carolina. Iwuh's a special teams guy also. You could argue we upgraded our special teams, but our linebacker depth is not as good. Speaking of special teams, that is lessened with Idonije going back into the DE rotation. Big stretch IMHO. Jennings was added, but he is really a nickel. Last year we drafted Moore, and believed he would be a backup, but thus far looks like a bust. I would say we had little to no depth last year, and ditto again. Discussing the changes is minor IMHO. Weak before and weak now, with any differences (either way) to minimal to really bother with. We're talk about DEPTH. It's a small upgrade . . . small. The biggest improvement might be making Corey Graham the nickel back. Last year at this time he was a FS. Years agao, when Pompei was a draft guy with Sportingnews (back when their stuff was free and good) I really liked him and thought he did a very good job. Since joining the Trib as a Bears beat reporter, I have felt his stuff barely worth reading. Put a guy in the same locker room week in and week out and your vision is likely to be skewed. Not to mention, since Pompei writes strictly for Chicago, he probably can't be as critical as he should be. You can't piss off the guys you need quotes from . . .

I agree with pretty much everything you said. The bigger question is how deep are we compared to previous years? In terms of sheer depth, 2010 compared to 2009. By position, in 2010 we are: QB's--DEEPER: Hanie has more experience and LeFevour is a better prospect then what we've had RB's--SAME: I'll say the same because we have more questions about Forte's ability then we had last year. Chester Tayor's a definite upgrade over Kevin Jones, but we let AP go and Wolfe is coming off an injury. Bell does not impress me either way. TE's--DEEPER: Manumaleuna's the difference O-line--NOT AS DEEP: Last year at this time most of us thought Pace would be average at worst. We've done nothing to upgrade the position DT's--SAME: Not much has changed here. Another year of, "If Tommie's healthy . . . " DE's--NOT AS DEEP: We gave up 2 starters and replaced them with one. It's an upgrade, but it doesn't help depth. LB's--NOT AS DEEP: We have the same guys as last year except we traded Jamar Williams CB's--DEEPER: Slightly. Bowman's improved and we did sign Jennings (although he might not make the team IMO). Calling this improved is a stretch. Safeties--DEEPER: Chris Harris is an upgrade. By my count we are deeper in 4 positions and less deep in 3 others. Not a big change. Either way, I thought this was a fluff piece. Pompei is the beat writer for the Bears and there's not a helluva a lot going on.

Oh, he is a stud, but that is also the problem. If we are not willing to shell out what is necessary for Atogwe, there is no freaking way we are going to shell out what it would take to sign Mankins. And make no mistake. Anyone who trades for him has to pay him. We keep hearing good things about Chris Harris and how he is quarterbacking the secondary. Major Wright has tons of potential. I actually believe the team when they say D Manning can be successful at SS (yes . . . I'm an idiot). I'm just saying that even if we had the $$$, we likely wouldn't sign Atogwe. I know it kills everyone that there are players out there who could help, but the reality is, we have blown our wad. The spending is over. We are going to have to simply hope what we have is enough, and that coaching can elevate players as it rarely has in the past. Agreed. The good part is that we've made fairly significant changes on both offense and defense. For once we're not actually throwing the same group of players and coaches out there and hope to get better results. With all this said, I would like to point one thing out. Article after article has been written talking about how upset players are with this years FA. Players feel there has been collusion as owners have simply not been spending the big dollars in an offseason w/ no salary cap. Owners like Snyder, Jones and many others who always seem to go after the most expensive player have been relatively quiet. Anyway, the shocking thing is, the Bears actually spent money, and big money at that. I'm still confounded Dallas & Washington weren't major players. On a side note, they're saying that once a new CBA is reached, there will be tons of FA's. The great thing is the Bears heavily front loaded deals. Assuming there is a cap again, we should be in good shape. (if we'll keep spending the money). We may not have added everyone we wanted, or filled all the holes some of us would have liked, but we have to give ownership a bit of credit here. When most every other owner is counting their pennies in prep for future uncertain years, we have actually shelled out money caring more about today than tomorrow. Maybe now we'll quit hearing people complain about how cheap the McKaskey's are . . .

Wow. Apparantly Mankins is a stud. According to PFT, the Pat's offered him a 5 year deal averaging 7 million per year that would have made him one of the top 5 highest paid guards in the NFL.

I'm in LT! Even though last year I embarrassed myself with a 6th place finish. I bought a draft guide. (nothing better then reading by the pool . . . ) Fox Sports for $4.99. Not bad. Is anyone doing a money league? Which reminds me I still owe someone for last year's money league from Talkbears keeper 1. I bitched and moaned about who do I pay, and then when they finally told me, I completely forgot . . . I'll tack on some interest to whatever I owe. With $$$ leagues my only request is: 1. Rules & payouts be established in advance 2. Everyone pays before the draft (so assholes like me can't put it of . . . )

Good article. It would have been a great article if it was written 20 years ago. It seems dated.

First thought: "Isn't that a Martin Lawrence character?" Then I remember'd it was "Roscoe Jenkins." Not Logan Mankins. 2nd thought: Who the hell is Logan Mankins? Why don't the Pat's want to pay him? One thing that made them a dynasty is knowing exactly when to dump a guy. I'm thinking we didn't add a veteran back-up QB because we didn't want the addition $$$. I can't see us making this move.

I thought about that, but one thing I noted was the absence of much talk about Shaffer really being part of the competition at RT. If he is out of the mix at OG, it is obvious he will be moved back to RT, but at the same time, I really didn't read much about his being a legit part of a competition for RT. The way it read to me was more than he is a backup OT, and simply no longer in the running for OG. I think keeping Shaffer at tackle has to do with how thin we are at the position. We have no clue what to expect from Omiyale at tackle and Chris Williams is still relatively unproven at the LT spot. Your back-ups are 7th round draft pick J'Marcus Webb and James Merton. As important as the tackle spot is in Martz's system, it's critical we have depth. Shaffer provides that. I'd thought Shaffer would be better at guard then any of the other guys, not because he's great, but because they are lacking. Trust me when I say I am not sold. Our history of drafting OL talent is not so great. At the same time, I do believe coaching is a HUGE part of it. Teams all over seem capable of developing later round picks along the OL. We have not been able to, and most assumed it was due to Angelo not adding talent. That may be part of it, but I have always felt the lack of coaching was a huge key as well. I like to think Tice & Martz know what the hell they are doing . . .

There's another option we haven't mentioned: It could be that Frank Omiyale's looking awful at RT and now he's in a legitimate competition with Shaffer. We rarely are able to develop our own offensive linemen. Does anyone really believe that Asiata and Louis are that good? A 7th rounder and an UDFA? Maybe it's all about coaching, but I'm skeptical.

As said, we are switching for Bowman. I understand the thinking, as Tillman is on the downside and Bowman appears to be a solid potential player, but personally, I think this move is a year too soon. Bowman played decent, not great. If he proves himself for a 2nd year, then we can move him. Not sure I love the prospect of Bowman covering opponents #1 WRs. Agreed. It would help if I trusted the defensive staff. Seemingly every time we move a guy it's the wrong choice. For DM, I think the idea of him being a S in general should be abandoned, and just use him where he has proven a solid player, nickel/return. Nickel's the one spot DM has been successful. Our nickel spot is weak. Agree that we should just make Harris the SS. Declare Steltz as the the starting FS (he's neither good nor bad) and hope Wright can beat him out for the spot. The more shocking part of this is pointed out above. He failed at FS so we move him. He looks solid in Carolina as a SS, and we bring him back, only to again play him where he struggled rather than where he excelled? God I have a headache . . . As pointed out already, I think you mean Jennings. While he is likely a nickel, we lack depth at CB and are essentially forced to give most any potential CB reps there, regardless if that is where they end up. Dan Pompei pointed out today how that Jennings is 5'7" and he'd have to play against huge CB's. I think he could play nickel Yea, it has been a bit of a joke. Credit Idonije for the versatility, but how can we expect much from a player who is moved around each year, and asked to add/lose a significant amount of weight to do so every time. Even more shocking is how much he is part of the plans this year when he has never been (based on our coaches shifting him around) considered good enough to simply be considered a starting DE. IMO, he's only part of the plans because we had to save salary on Brown and couldn't invest more in the position. I think if the kid from Northwestern can do anything, he'll be given the nod over Idonije. I am not sure Gilbert was actually drafted to be a DT. I think he was drafted due to his athleticism, but w/o a real plan/position in mind. I think we looked at him as a replacement for Wale, but then we traded for Adams and moved Gilbert to DT. Adams passed way, and we talked about Gilbert again at DE, only to sign Peppers and move him back inside. This is what happens when you do not have a plan in place for a player to start with. Gilbert played DT in college and I'm pretty sure Gilbert played mostly DT in TC last year. We seemed to realize he wasn't any damn good at DT. Hub Arkush mentioned that Gilbert's been so bad he might not even make the team this year. I still don't get Melton. He's listed at 260 and seems ideal as a speed guy coming off the edge. How can we play him at DT??? Agreed, and I will go one further. While Anderson showed some flashes last year at DE, I would argue he showed less last year than he did his rookie year, and thus I do not understand why we believe he will do different this time as a starter than last. To me he looked slower but stronger last year. He seemed able to stuff the run but couldn't get to the QB. While I've never read it, I wonder if we asked him to gain weight in order to become an every down end. While he's far from great, I didn't notice a big difference between him, Wale, and Brown. IMO the worst DE on the roster died. Adams just flailed around and couldn't get past anyone. Either way, Peppers & Anderson is an upgrade over Brown & Wale.

Why does every damn move the Bears make on defense make us look like we're running in circles? 1. Peanut is our best CB & he plays on the most important side . . . but now we're switching him in favor of Graham? 2. Chris Harris is a SS and DM in theory is a natural FS . . . so we've switched them. DM has looked bad all over the secondary. 3. We trade Chris Harris to make room for Payne. Two years later we trade back for Harris and trade Payne to make room for Harris. 4. Tim Shaw is a natural nickel. So now he's a back-up corner and we're playing Corey Graham at nickel 5. Corey Graham looked good at cb 2 years ago. We moved him to safety, then to cb, then to the bench, now to nickel 6. Idonije beefed up and moved to tackle . . . only to be told to slim down and move back to end. 7. We drafted Gilbert to play DT & moved him to DE. Melton was a DE and we moved him to DT. I have no clue what the hell either one currently is. 8. Mark Anderson is promoted to start over Brown. Anderson sucks and Brown starts. Brown is cut so now Anderson is the starter . . . 9. Lovie fires Chico and replaces him with Bob Babbich, his hand-picked replacement. Babbich sucks, so he's demoted and Lovie is promoted . . . Lovie sucks, and is replaced by a new hand-picked replacement in Marinelli. Seemingly our defense sucks and we keep moving guys around and getting the same results. I can almost hear the damn Looney-Tunes song . . .

A few things: 1. Why is TO such a jack-ass? You want to work for the Bears so you advertise it by saying, "I'm drinking at a bar! Hey! There's Cutler & Olsen! We should be teammates!" Making an ass of yourself is no way to gain the trust of a potential employer. 2. TO can drink with Cutler, Urlacher, or that ball-boy who ran down the side-lines when Knox returned the kick. If he ain't talking to Martz or JA, it ain't happening 3. Martz just came out saying how thrilled he was with the WR but he wants a veteran QB. If he wanted TO, I think he'd push for it.

Nice. Considering we didn't draft until round 3, I'd bet the farm we sign all our guys before everyone else. I ask this every year: Why does it take teams so damn long to sign their late round picks?

I can't argue with that. Although the article says that Luiti will likely want a multi-year deal from whoever trades for him. I believe we've maxed out what we're willing to spend for next year. That being said, I have no clue as to his worth.

Omiyale was flat out bad at the beginning but okay after Williams moved to LT. How much of his being awful had to do with Pace being a damn statue? I'll take that one step further: didn't Pace getting benched make the rest of the line better?

I like the idea of getting a LG. Yet the article indicates that Arizona wants a player in return. Now that we've traded Williams, I'm not sure we have much to give. As for draft picks, it's too early for Arizona to just give him away. They'll want something. I want a full draft next year.

Really? Ask Daniel Manning his opinion on that, among others. I know it is a novel idea, but how about having our players practice and (are you ready for this) play at the positions they are best suited for. Lets see. Last year we signed Omiyale, a player who had developed since joining the NFL at OT. His play at OT was good enough for us to give him a pretty nice contract (considering the lack of experience). Where do we play him? OG, where he has no experience or development. Oh, and how about we take this kid we drafted to be our franchise LT, and play him at RT, the spot few scouts felt he could handle. Go back and read his draft/scouting reports. Well suited to play LT, but lacking the strength to play RT. Now, we take Shaffer, who I believe has always played OT, and we are going to move him inside to OG. On D Manning, we've made too much of how moving him around's hindered his development. For 4 years he's played mostly FS. He sucks at coverage. Period. St. Clair was okay outside, inside. Never great, but solid. I see Shaffer being the same. Guys who can play will get it done regardless. Omiyale was mediocre in. He'll be mediocre out. I do worry about who's calling the shots. It's like someone wants Omiyale to start because we paid him.

One. Your assuming Omiyale is one of our top 5 OL. Based on last year, that is a pretty huge assumption. True, but it's not my grade or your grade that counts. The team seems to believe he's capable of being a good RT. They thought this back before we signed Pace. There was talk we'd move him to RT before we ever signed Tice or Martz. For better or for worse, this move seems inevitable. Two. Has Shaffer ever even played OG? Maybe he has, but I have only known about him playing OT (RT and LT). Maybe he can play OG, but to me, his value is more at OT, and until Omiyale proves he can play OT, that is where Shaffer should be working out. Which tells me we're that unhappy with Beekman that we're grasping at straws. Beekman is definitely a player I would like to upgrade over, but I am more confident at this moment w/ Beekman starting than Omiyale. W/ Beekman, we pretty much know what we are going to get. It isn't great by any means, but he has not been our worst OL either. Omiyale on the other hand is a total unknown at OT. He was freaking awful at OG, and the hope is a move to OT will improve his outlook, but that is such an unknown, it is there I think we should focus Shaffer. Agreed. We need to sign another guard. Even if it's a bad player like Smiley that we hope can turn it around.

IMO we're putting our 5 best o-linemen on the field & Beekman ain't one of them. We missed on the guard from Seattle & the Times is saying we'll be interested in Justin Smiley. The draft was bad for guards. I'm guessing Shaffer at guard is better then Beekman. I get we want competition for Omiyale, but it's better to make your top 5 a priority.

http://sturminator.blogspot.com/2010/04/co...raft-board.html PFT posted this topic. While this is fascinating, I found it particularly interesting they had Corey Wooton listed as the 3rd best player in the 3rd round. Meanwhile, they had Major Wright listed as the 14th player in the 4th round.

Except Forte damn near won offensive ROY under play-calling. Why wasn't it so predictable then? You can't have it both ways.

IMO, this seems like a ton of hot air. I think this for 2 reasons: 1. What else is he supposed to say? Our LG position sucks ass! Help! 2. He basically saying he's a genious. He's saying, "If you give me a player, I'll make him good." So he'd rather have a bad player he's had time to work with then a more talented player with bad mechanics? Bullshit. I declare bullshit.

Damn, I didn't realize Kreutz hadn't made it back yet. Thanks for pointing that out. Either way it seems odd to me. Hypothetically, does this mean if Kreutz gets hurt during the season, we'd move our probable starting LG to center and our possible starting RT to LG? (I think Shaffer ends up starting at RT . . . maybe not on opening day, but eventually). Shouldn't we be entrentching players in the positions they're most likely to play?

That explains why teams are staying away from him. If he's that bad, I'm surprised the Dolphins are that determined to try and trade him. Why not just cut him?

This seems pretty damn logical to me. The last time he worked with Martz he went for over 1000 yards. I'm assuming he's a precise route runner, which is something Martz requires and is something most of our WR's are not good at. We'd offering him the minimum so salary isn't and issue and we can cut him if he doesn't work. He seems like an ideal guy to fill out the back end of the roster and probably replace Rashied Davis.