
bradjock
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PFT just announced the Detroit Lions signed Bryant Johnson for 3 years 9 million. Yesterday, David Haugh reported Johnson was a guy the Bears might be interested in. So he's off the board. T.J. Housh is flying to Minnesota today or tomorrow to talk with them. How damn good will that offense be if they can sign him? Meanwhile the Bears, who have the worst group of receivers in the NFC North (or possibly in the league for that matter) don't appear to be interested in bringing anyone in. In Angelo's defense, getting rid of Engram helped pave the way for Booker. And in 2006, I was screaming for the Bears to sign a #2 WR, and not doing so helped open up the door for Bernard Berrian to shine. So it is possible that 2009 will be Earl Bennett's year. Yet at the same time, you really can't make the comparison since Booker and Berrian were both entering their 3rd seasons in the NFL, and both had shown flashes of brialliance previously. Although Bennett did look fine on special teams this year, and he might have caught the one pass Orton threw his way if it hadn't been 5 feet over his head. Either way, with only 3 viable WR options on the roster, (Bennett, Hester, & Davis) it's pretty damn important we sign a veteran to add to the mix, even if we plan on drafting a guy in the first round. It's always tough to be patient this time of year . . .
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I think we offered St. Clair something like 3 years and 15 million. I'm guessing Barnes will sign a deal for 6-7 years 50 million, which seems to be about the going rate for good starting o-linemen. That's really not that much for a starting tackle and a starting guard, especially when we still have 30 million to spend even after we signed Frank Omiyale. The nice thing about Barnes is that he's only 26 and he's been extremely durable. It's tough to tell how good or bad he was last year since Jacksonville's o-line was flat out devastated by injuries. The key thing IMO, is that harsh reality of how bad our guards really are. It's always tough to tell how good or bad o-lineman are, but I've never gotten the impression that we like Josh Beekman that much. He's ok, but realistically he's better suited to be a back-up. This is the first time I've ever heard our organization say we've been unhappy with Garza. To make matters worse, St. Clair is a down-grade from a healthy John Tait. If we sign St. Clair, on paper, our o-line is immediately worse then it was at the start of training camp last year.
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Disagree. St. Clair is 32, and in training camp he began as our starting LG. Even if we sign St. Clair, we could easily draft or sign another top o-lineman. The key is that St. Clair and Omiyale can play in or out. That, and neither Beekman's job or Garza's job is safe right now. Beekman works his ass off but the talent simply is not where we need it to be. How about an opening day line-up of Williams, St. Clair, Kreutz, Omiyale and Khaleef Barnes? That'd be one helluva a line-up IMO. We'd be bigger, more athletic, and more versatile.
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I hope you're right. The one thing that bothers me is Angelo saying, "We want St. Clair to be our starting RT." To hell with that. Why not, "We want Khalif Barnes to be our starting RT." Realistically, we could sign both of those guys, and we'd have great depth and a real solid group. Our entire starting o-line would be comparable to what Haynesworth is making.
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The problem I see is that while Alex Brown and Wale had bad seasons last year, there's really no free agents out there who are any better other then Julius Peppers.
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At this point I don't think we can believe a damn thing we read until after free agency and the draft. Our immediate most pressing need on o-line is: 1. A starting right tackle 2. A quality back-up LT in case Williams sucks is or injured. So we sign a quality back-up tackle with the intention of moving him to guard??? Does that make anyone else's head hurt?
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I'd be happy with both players, especially Phillips. After Yeremiah Bell, Phillips is probably the best free agent safety available. IMO, that's the Bears most urgent need at this point, since the only two we have on the roster who have a realistic chance of making the team are Steltz & Payne. Neither of whom are great. That, and when you consider are track record for drafting safeties has sucked lately, we need to get Phillips or someone in here. Although, Tampa Bay has a whopping 51 million to spend and if they want Phillips, they are going get him. I'm less excited Clayton. I'd much rather see us go after D.J. Hackett or Nate Washington. But we do need to add another body to the WR mix since right now we only have Hester, Davis & Bennett.
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Why does everyone hate Garza so much? Yes, he could be better, but the organization seems to like him, and they definitely feel that he's better then Beekman. Garza is only 29 (although he turns 30 in March . . . but Moore turns 29 in June, so there's a one year difference.) I'll be honest, I don't know a damn thing about Moore, but he's that great, wouldn't the Jets have found a way to keep him? It just seems that we have an endless amount of holes to fill that are far more pressing: O-tackle, WR, back-up QB, safety, and defensive end. Guard improvement is more of a luxury then a need. We need to fill the holes first.
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I did like reading that he seemed to struggle in Tampa Bay because they were playing him at corner and nickel, and not at safety. For years Angelo has drafted or signed defensive tackle after defensive tackle. At this point he needs to start taking this approach with the safety position. Damn near every year we draft a safety, and all we have left is Steltz & Payne. Steltz likely sucks, and Payne is a fringe starter. (I'm assuming we've learned never to start D Manning at Free safety again) Either way, I'm personally not thrilled with either Steltz or Payne starting. If one of them has to start, the other guy better be damn good. I don't think Wilson is that "damn good" player, but I'd take him over Steltz any day. Even if we signed him, IMO we'd still need to either sign a top safety free agent (although there's not much available) or draft one in the first 3 rounds. We should plan on finding a way to keep 5 safeties on the 53 man roster. We always need them.
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As per PFT, Jenkins ran slower then expected, and teams may view him as a safety. Which would drop him out of the top 10, which means he could be available at #18. How would you like him as our safety? Here's what PFT said: JENKINS COULD BE SLIDING Posted by Mike Florio on February 24, 2009, 9:54 a.m. Tony Pauline of SI.com reports that Ohio State cornerback Malcolm Jenkins ran 40-yard dashes on Tuesday ranging from 4.52 to 4.58 seconds. Per Pauline, a number of scouts believed that Jenkins needed to break 4.50 in order to stay in the top ten of the draft. He also predicts that some teams will now begin grading Jenkins as a safety and not as a cornerback. We’ll run a link to Pauline’s daily recap at SI.com when it’s posted later today. Coverage of the final day of workouts at the Scouting Combine begins on NFL Network at 11:00 a.m. EST.
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I don't know Jason, you're giving Bennett one helluva a lot of credit for never having done anything. And as for your "no wonder there isn't a viable WR who wants to come to Chicago" what's that supposed to mean? Moose was thrilled to come here, Booker was happy to return, and Brandon Lloyd could have signed with any team for the minimum. If the money is right, they'll come. A better question is why WR's get worse when they arrive here. Either way, the "we really like Earl Bennett" cause is gaining momentum. I point that out since we NEVER heard it about Bazuin or Okwo. We did here it about Josh Beekman who went on to have a damn fine year. Not playing him his rookie year didn't seem to stunt his growth. Bennett seems to be the heir apparant to the #2 WR job . . . now if we could just find a #1.
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That's why we're all here . . . to vent!!! I do believe JA is checking in on the guys you've mentioned, but it's the equivalent of going to the most expensive store in town. You're going to pay one helluva a lot . . . Peppers & Boldin will both cost around 15 million annually AND at least a #1 draft-pick. Peppers sucked in 2007 and Boldin is a very good, but not a great receiver. I see both guys underachieving in a Bear uniform. Housh is more realistic . . . the Moose signing has soured me on expensive possession type receivers who cost an arm and a leg.
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Tait is a class act. At training camp, no player signed more autographs then he did. I remember thanking him and he stopped, looked me square in the eye, and said, "thank you I appreciate that." We need St. Clair AND another offensive tackle.
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Neither signing would be great, but both good. It gives us valuable depth. I'm not sure how Hamilton makes the team if everyone is healthy, unless we keep 7 cornerbacks (Peanut, Vasher, Graham, Beauman, McBride, D Manning . . . ) I'm not sure if Nick Roach is any better then Hunter. Either way, depth is huge.
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It could be errant speculation, but I'm fairly certain the major papers have reported we've given St. Clair a contract offer. And 5 million is believe to be the low end for starting tackles. It's easy to bitch about St. Clair, but do you have a better immediate option for replacing Tait? Look at the list of available tackles http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/fa?sort=gra...p;positionId=46 Stacy Andrews was hurt all last season, the Philly guys are ancient, other players restricted. Realistically Jon Stinchcomb & Khalif Barnes are the only upgrades to St. Clair, and who knows what they'll cost? Even if we sign Stinkcomb or Barnes, St. Clair would still be our starting LG, and he's valuable because he's insurance in case Chris Williams sucks or is injured. Either way, we need St. Clair back. We have more then enough money to do it, and it gives us tons of flexibility at the o-line spot.
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ESPN has him ranked has Rashad Johnson ranked as the #2 safety overall, and nfldraftcountdown.com has him projected to go #37 overall. So he's way to early for #18, but if he's there when the Bears draft @ #49, we'd have to think hard about taking him. Here's what ESPN had to say about him: Overall Football Traits Production 2 Redshirted in 2004 and played in all 12 games on special teams in 2005. Played in 11 of 13 games (four starts) in 2006, missing the final two due to injury. Emerged as a fulltime starter in 2007, when he led the Crimson Tide with 94 total tackles and an SEC best six INTs (tied with Vandy's D.J. Moore). Height-Weight-Speed 4 NFL 'measurables' are below average across the board Durability 3 Missed the final two games in 2006 with an ankle injury but has remained durable otherwise. Character 3 Has emerged as a leader on the field and was named a 2007 team captain, but off-the-field incident is concerning. Johnson was charged with disorderly conduct for allegedly knocking down a security guard at a Tuscaloosa bar early in the morning on February 25, 2008. He was released on $500 bond and criminal charges will be dropped if Johnson meets the requirements of a plea bargain, which included community service and a public apology Defensive Safety specific Traits Recognition Skills/Toughness 2 A natural playmaker with very good overall instincts. Read-and-react skills continue to improve each season. Generally gets a good jump on the ball in coverage when reading the QB's eyes. Run support is not his primary objective but he is willing to fill once he's certain there's no threat of pass. While not a big-hitting DS, he doesn't shy away from contact. Closing Burst 2 Much better closing burst than 40-time indicates. Capable of making up a lot of ground when the ball is in the air. Fluidity 3 A bit high in his pedal and is occasionally a quarter-count slow to plant and drive out of it, as a result. Does not have a great deal of experience in man-to-man coverage and also gives up size to TE's one-on-one. However, he shows quick feet and adequate-to-good natural fluidity in his hips. Covers a lot of ground in deep-middle FS role. Ball Skills 2 Displays good overall ball skills. Generally gets an early jump and can close quickly when the ball is in the air. Times jumps well and will catch the ball at its highest point. Shows good overall hands when in position to make a play Run Support 3 Plays a lot from the high-point, so run support is usually the secondary concern. Does not project as a good in-the-box matchup in the NFL. Will get washed out rather easily by bigger blockers at the point of attack and needs to be protected to be effective. However, he is not afraid of contact and he does a solid job of wrapping up in space. Pursuit angles are solid and he finds ways to bring bigger ball carriers down. Trait Scale 1 = Exceptional 2 = Above average 3 = Average 4 = Below average 5 = Marginal
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Sorry, I must have double-clicked it.
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That's awesome Mad-lith! But I'd have to disagree with you about fixing the safety problem internally. Mainly because we have no freaking safeties!!! Payne is a fringe starter at best. Steltz???? Last year in the most important game of the season vs. Houston, they refused to let Steltz start at free safety, but chose to let Manning play nickel & FS. If we like D Manning over Steltz then, what has changed? With the lack of talent we have at the position, realistically we need to sign a starting safety and draft another one fairly high. If we don't, we'll continue to be in big trouble.
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Agreed MadLith. It's crazy what you have to give up to move up a few spots. Realistically, there ought to be a damn good player available when the Bears draft. The last two drafts JA has said he declined offers to trade down, sticking with Olsen & Williams. I believe that. Those are two players the Bears really wanted. If you looked back to the 2006 draft when the Bears traded down, there really wasn't much worth standing pat for. You guys are going to get sick of me mentioning this, but everyone would have loved for us to trade up for Vernon Davis. Hypothetically, if we'd done that there's no way we have Hester or Olsen right now. Right now I'm more anxious to see what problems we fix via free agency. Hopefully safety, O-line & back-up QB.
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That seems pretty damn reasonable. St. Clair turns 32 in July, and he's considered a very average offensive-tackle at best. I wonder who his agent is? Agents usually seem to have a finger on the pulse of what the market is. Is there a team out there willing to offer him more? When news of the contract gets out, it usually means the player has declined it. If another team offers just a little bit more money, he'll likely jump ship. I'd still love to see the Bears sign Khalif Barnes AND St. Clair. That would take care of the o-line and give us a lot more flexibility in the draft.
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Won't there be a player available in the 2nd round with great speed who can play WR??? We just need to make sure we take care of our D-line before we roll the dice with WR's. We spent 4 years waiting for Mark Bradley to flip the switch. Hopefully, other teams will jump on these WR's who have great speed, which will allow for a top DE or tackle to fall to us. It's always amazing how one player jumping up changes the entire complexion of the draft.
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Targets: Jermaine Phillips FS - He has played 7 seasons in our style D, productive at creating turnovers Phillips is considered a strong safety, not a free safety. TJ Housmanzadeh WR- yes he's 31, the top WR FA prospect, and nothing to get too overly excited about (like Moose), but we need a go to possesion WR and TJ has been that in Cincy for a while. If he can put up numbers with Fitzpatrick at QB and no running game, he'll be able to put up numbers here. With his age, I'd like to see a 4 year deal and nothing more. I'd also like to draft a RD1/RD2 WR and then maybe a late RD 6-7 flier. How much do you think it will cost to get him???? After the draft, I wait to see who we end up with then go: Khalif Barnes RT Brian Dawkins SS Correll Buckhalter RB Nate Washington WR Uh . . . you do realize the draft is April 25th, and free agency starts February 27th. That means Most of these guys will be long gone by April . . . hell, some will be signed by the first of March. Waiting is not an option.
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Sounds like Bears are trying to lock down St. Clair
bradjock replied to Connorbear's topic in Bearstalk
I had no problem with intending to start Williams since St. Clair was in the mix. If Williams was hurt or terrible, we had an ok back-up plan. If we're going to have not one but two totally inexperienced players, we'd better have at least one damn good back-up. -
First off with Housh, the Sun Times talkbed about letting Bobby Engram go, allowed Marty Booker to become a pro-bowler. IMO, there's no way we pay a ton of money to an older possession-type WR when we want to see Hester, Olsen, Bennett, and whoever we draft this year develop. It'd be different if Housh was a game-changer. You watch Larry Fitzgerald and Randy Moss, and they make some jaw-dropping plays. They are legitimate game-changers. Housh is simply a good WR. I'm not sure if he's as good as Bernard Berrian. It's a mistake to throw tons of money at guys like that. But we still need to sign a veteran WR. Right now we only have Bennet, Davis, and Hester. Which 2nd tier veteran do you like? With Suggs & Peppers off the market, there really aren't any DE's available who would be an upgrade over Wale or Alex Brown. This makes DE a top priority in the first round IMO. I'd be thrilled if we signed Khalif Barnes AND St. Clair. Barnes will probably cost 6 years 40+ million. At 26, he can start for us for the next 6 years. He's a proven player which is a helluva a lot better then drafting a guy in the first round and crossing your fingers that he's not a bust. We can sign St. Clair to start at LG and we have the flexibility of moving him to RT or LT if Williams sucks or Barnes gets hurt. Safety is a top priority. With the news that Peanut will remain at CB and Manning will remain at Nickel, we need to draft a safety AND sign one. The way we go through safeties, we should probably draft two. The other position is quarterback. I'm all in favor of bringing in Simms, Losman, Leftwich, or any other guy who is young but has experience.
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Agreed Chile. Especially since right now he's the best offensive tackle available. He's younger and considered better then St. Clair. The only argument for not making every effort to sign him would be that you want to draft an offensive tackle in the first round. The danger with this is: 1. According to some mocks there will be a run on OT's early, and there might not be one worth the pick available when the Bears draft. 2. You can never count on a rookie. Can you imagine if we were starting a rookie RT, and Chris Williams at LT? Yikes. It could work great, or it could ruin our season. On hindsight, I'd wished we'd have taken Barnes in 2005 in the 2nd round instead of Bradley. I'd be thrilled if we signed Barnes and St. Clair. Then we could focus on drafting a DE or WR in round one. There are quality offensive tackles we can sign right now, but there's not much for DE's or WR's.