Lucky Luciano

how bout YOU doing the work you are relying on as FACT. how bout YOU back up your mouth with facts and compare what your OPINIONS regard as the ultimate truth. i personally don't give a shite. you bring up these statements as facts like there is no other player on our roster to be used for comparrison who does this or this is the reason that his tenure in chicago is no big loss. do YOUR job and do an accurate assessment of our receiving corp and player comparisons. if he is the only player on our entire roster who takes plays off so be it. just show me or shut the F up.

ok, i have made my opinions on keeping moore in past threads. i don't have the time or resources to go through a 3 year span of his games in chicago but if this is the argument that he quits on plays or is too expensive then someone needs to do the 'receivers' comparison to realistically back up your opinions or they are just a knee jerk reaction. 1. MONEY: this is nearly a mute point with me. good franchises find ways to keep their systems working under the cap every single year. added to this is on every good roster there is at least one high paid receiver. the other 'replacement' receivers are ALL on rookie contracts. our QB is still on his rookie contract. our RB's are low cap hits. so is the savings really that drastic that we replace him? with what? the cap balance is in place for the next 1-2 years. this is how it's done. 2. HEALTH: as i stated in the past, he is tougher than nails. can you guess how many games he has missed since his time in chicago? "0" games missed in THREE YEARS. in his entire career there are only TWO games he has not played in. those were his second and third year in carolina. that makes him a CONSISTENT weapon EVERY game for a qb to count on. he has been battered and bruised and still comes out and plays to a high degree. back injuries, which if anyone knows about them, is no small deal. groin injuries that he was hospitalized after the game in washington, knee injuries plus in my opinion possible concussion from the head slams twice in a row and probably a lot more i didn't list. every one of these would contribute to onfield problems and endurance. so yea, he may take some plays off that supposedly aren't coming to him. i wonder why with all the injuries i listed above? if he screwed up that particular play so be it. a learning experience or just a result of injury conserving himself for a play designed in his direction. now for all you stat monsters out there.... give me the printout of the replacement receivers game logs. we are basically talking about dunze and burden correct? none other come to mind. odunze: missed FIVE GAMES in his 2nd season. foot injury. burden: missed TWO regular season games and limited in some others. concussion, ankle injury, quad injury. have ANY of these receivers proven they can play an entire season yet let alone at a high level? potential? yea, but not proven in the real world. 3. PRODUCTION: face it, he is a clutch receiver when the chips are down. he has good+ hands. can get open on a regular basis. he is a very good WR blocker. he can be used as a RB on sweeps. in other words he can do everything you hope a WR can do and does it well. is he perfect? no. find me ANY WR in the history of the NFL that is perfect every play, every game, every season of their career. to keep him for 1-2 years more while the other receivers and qb are on rookie contracts shouldn't even be a chore to figure out. be fair, go through the game films. did these other players EVER take plays off or slow down on routes where the ball wasn't regulated in their wheelhouse? let me know how those film studies turn out then we can talk turkey. please post your results of indepth analysis of our replacements consistant, never take a play off, results.

not sure if that would work. What if it was a 4th down pass? they would lose possession.

statman: what is the average increase in salary cap per year and the average high end salary for core players by position? every year we see cap strapped teams resigning their key players when we think there is no way possible for them to get under the cap. if they can, why can't we? screw the salary cap. that said... look at mahomes when the quality of his WR's declined to a great degree because they dumped his go to players. the chiefs WR's dropped more balls than anyone i can think of during these seasons. he relied mostly on kelse his TE. if we can't slot two or three key defensive players into our current cap for the future while caleb is in his rookie contract keeping our receiving core we are not trying hard enough. i say we keep our core of receivers and tight ends and think of how our offense would operate if we didn't and a key WR/TE is injured or has a career ending injury. we won't have the higher draft picks to replace them. also, we are not paying a RB top dollar compared to the best in the league. that has to count for something. add to this, we have a starting quality backup QB. if we couldn't get a first round pick out of him in the future i would be amazed.

now i think about it you could be right

i really don't recall. just watching farve during that freezing game was enough to know his career was done. he just huddled up on the sidlines looking like he didn't want to go back in.

it was an elite offense against our elite defense. the cold never slowed down the niners and it looked like it effected us more than them. i have to say... there was a game in soldier field that exemplifies exactly your point. in the final years of brett favre, he played in chicago on a super cold day with tons of wind. he looked like he wanted to be anywhere but on the field that day. it was the beginning of the end for his tenure in GB. it was beautiful to watch.

the weather can be a false reading. i say this as i remember the 49ers coming to soldier field for a playoff game and it effected them not at all. they kicked our ass back in the 80's

i've seen this coming for some time now. these greedy B;stard owners and corporate NFL are making this sport a pay-per-view item. they enjoy tax benefits from us but that is not enough, they want more. soon, all local games are going to be broadcast on some pay channel with the 'possible' exception of the ability to watch out of conference games just like they did with college football. all playoff games will be PPV. soon you will even have to pay to watch the SB. if something isn't done soon you can kiss watching NFL games over the air in local broadcasts in your area goodbye. below is an email i sent to God-ell and his cronie Anna Isaacson. if you agree with this write to them and your representatives in washington and even local state reps. if you feel motivated to copy and paste or revise some of the email i sent on every sports board you frequent. enough is freaking enough!!!!! EDIT: i am also going to send my displeasure to the bears and their owners who must have ok'd this crap. you should do the same. ============== support@nfl.com - Contact Roger Goodell NFL Commissioner Anna.Isaacson@nfl.com - NFL's VP of Social Responsibility How Much Greed Is Enough For You People? Roger Goodell; Anna Isaacson; This is the way you treat your fans of decades by jamming it down our throats to pay to watch the NFL? The fans that brought you to the pinnacle of professional sports you just wipe your feet on for more personal gain? If you want to turn the NFL into a cash cow for the big streaming corporations then it's ALSO time for the corporate NFL to be turned off of the taxpayers dole. $3.2 billion in federal taxpayer dollars has been used to finance professional sports stadiums since 2000. This dole is for some of the richest corporations and highest paid CEO's in the United States. Yet our tax dollars aren't enough to satisfy your/their draconian greed? The Tax Reform Act of 1986 wanted to end the exemptions for private use, including stadiums. Instead, the bill inadvertently created a loophole allowing stadiums to be backed by tax-free public bonds. It's time that loophole was CLOSED. Let the billionaire owners and corporate NFL pay their share instead of us. I know a letter/email is going out to my representatives in Washington to shut off any and all taxpayer support or funding that the NFL may glean. As for myself? I have stopped watching Major League Baseball because of the greed and stupidity. I have stopped watching College Football since they now require me to pay a cable company to watch local teams. I have watched and promoted the NFL for over 65 years. I have purchased thousands of dollars over this span of time in merchandise and game tickets. I will never purchase any Pay-Per-View venue to watch the NFL. I will never purchase a pennies worth of NFL sponsored products. I will never purchase another game ticket and I will boycott all advertisers on your broadcasts after informing them of the reason why. So welcome to the average persons cost of doing business as you float around on your yachts. Thanks for nothing, xxxxx xxxxx

all the time our offense was on the bench could have been scoring opportunities for us and not them. while 19 points sounds reasonable, and is, it's the riding time and the stupid play calls by their coach. add one freaky intto that also. add this to the equation... opponents moving the ball at will definitely will alter our offensive play calls during the game. there is no way that does not enter the game plan.

not sure what johnson's problem is. if injured and will come back healthy next year 'maybe' a keeper. if not seriously injured he is the top of the list for a trade or cut. he looks pathetic out there. right now he could be replaced by macloud and that is saying a whole lot. i know everyone wants moore traded etc..... to me he is one of the keepers. if nothing else he is tough as nails and plays which i can't say for the rest of our receiving squad. think of the games missed by every receiver but him. during an entire season that adds up. he is earning every dollar he makes. that said, i think he is nursing some injuries and that cheap shot by the packers surely didn't help. i rate kmet in the same category as moore. can take a licking and keeps on ticking. reliable starter.

yea, they did lose it. nearly double time of possession means your offense is sitting on the sidelines while the other team just moves down the field at will. one punt? during the entire game will rarely ever give you an opportunity to win. there is not one player on this defense that is not tradeable or couldn't be cut.

the officials determined the outcome of this game, period. the NFL knows and allows it.

this is the same ole shite we get from the refs. i would like a better look at it but it did NOT seem to be anything close to flagrant. incidental and short lived that probably happens dozens of times on both sides a game. just they chose a critical time to call it to influence the score and outcome. anyone who believes the fix is NOT IN in the nfl is whistling past the graveyard. just another game changer by crooked refs who seem to be on organized crime payrolls. this same ref crew is consistently influencing scores and game outcomes during the season. the 12th man on the field. on top of THAT, their NON CALLS for PI and holding against the bears is so obvious i can't believe the NFL is not aware of it. amazing we should draw that crew in this critical of a regular season game? i think not.

that was really entertaining.

still sorry but that is PI. absolutely no different putting your arm around a players neck and impeding his forward momentum than hanging onto his jersey. no different than hanging onto a players arm to impede momentum to make a catch. no different than if a ball is in the air and a defender jumps on a players back or pushes the player from behind to hinder his ability to make a catch. that is pass interference. if the nfl has changed this concept that has been around football for over a hundred years then it is complete BS.

it is that. one comment... you are wrong about that not being PI. that has been pass interference for 60+ years. look where he places his left hand... he draped it over tj's shoulder and was using it to impede moore's momentum to the ball. that is NOT reaching for an equal right to catch the ball, that is holding any day, every day, of the week. even if you say he was reaching for the ball and has an equal right to do so, you are wrong again. you do NOT have a right to go after the ball by climbing onto a receivers back to do so before the ball arrives. it is just not done, period.

i am with you, i am/was not his biggest fan. it's just strange (or not so for a kicker) that he runs hot and cold. misses easy chip shots one game and makes the incredible on others. that said.... his game was superb last night. when he lined up for a 51 yarder i said not possible with that wind. he proved me wrong.

speaking of TERRIBLE, the fattie #97 is truly wasting a roster spot. nearly every play billings is getting turned sideways and blocked out of the hole on running plays, it's ridiculous. on passing plays they just stand him up at the LOS. vs packers: 2 solo tackles and 1 assist. he should at least be a solid rock in the middle to stop running plays. brisker? wow, what a difference between this season and last. he has looked terrible. say adios. the worst? absolutely NO pass rush. any qb, and i mean ANY qb will look like HOF quality if you can just stand behind your line and pick and choose who and when to throw it. with this bad of a pass rush no team can compete. that said, we have to have set another record for bad in nfl history for length of field TD's in less than a minute. i have never seen a team consistently give up TD's that fast multiple times in a season. one last note, if the defense puts williams in motion out of the pocket he looks bad. way to many happy feet instances. he needs to fix that problem along with having no touch on his passes.

agree, we have to keep at least one of those LB's, either edmunds or edwards. with a poor DL it's imperative one is here to shore up the run defense. everyone wants to trade dj moore. i do not. this guy always finds a way to get open and usually has good hands. in truth he is probably the best offensive playmaker on this team. that is one reason our 2nd round pick was stupid. that said, other teams always find ways to pay their best players. it's time we did also. i would rather have moore than dunze or our rookie.

unless i am not seeing it, billings has mailed it in this season and last. if they resign him next year for more than league minimum they are crazy. he had a decent game yesterday. before that he just stands around watching the plays go past him. seems lazy and uninterested. his tackle count looks dismal (11 solo and 8 assists in 12 games? yikes) when you consider the amount of opponents running plays up the middle for big yards every week. barely gets any penetration on passing plays. ford doesn't look much better if any. i want to comment also on a topic i posted before.... gambling or at least the fix from refs. the refs, the league and the talking heads are pushing certain teams into the playoffs with piss poor calls on the field and nonsense hype. they want the cowboys in the playoffs and are determined to get them there. if anyone watched the cowboys chiefs game there can be no doubt that the refs are in someones pocket. it was so FREAKIN obvious i can't believe it's not headline news. 3-4 mins left to play and the boys are trying to move downfield and eat the clock. chiefs down by 3. not one, but TWO bogus pass interference calls on the defense giving the boys first downs instead of punting and moving them into chiefs territory. if you watch these two plays it is pass interference, but on the offense. this was so obvious that i can't even believe the booth didn't jump in. another bogus offensive holding call on the chiefs earlier in the game killed a drive. that was a call so minor as to be nonexistant it was mind boggling. the league and fans are sick of the chiefs in it so this is how they are killing them from the playoffs. mcholmes is taking a non call beating and tit for tat penalty calls that used to go in their favor are boomeranged. I dislike the chief organization and truly despise jerry jones and the cowboys but man, if this is what we can expect in the future, welcome to an EVENT and not a sport.

this is a problem i have been having with the bears coaching staff myself. going for it on 4th down is fine if it's late in the 4th quarter and you are down, or if you are down multiple scores in the 4th midway through and time is a factor. but going for it around the 50 or even in our own territory to me is bad play calling especially when your defense can't stop anybody. in this game they conceded points to the vikes by doing this. in the first 3 quarters if you are in field goal range you TAKE the points. this has been going on league wide and it's semi pro or amateur football that never would have flown 25+ years ago.

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well, i guess i wasn't hallucinating from anger. that is an amazing stat. it has to have set a record for pathetic in NFL history.