Lucky Luciano

i agree, it IS a rollover. but... when your team is in need of good players in at least 4 positions and you decide to "rollover" a major portion of your cap in hopes of WHO KNOWS what you do with the cash next season, that to me is a travesty!! and all that for a 7th round cb draft pick who was WAIVED??? unbelievable. we needed desperately offensive line help in guards AND tackles this season. we needed desperate help at the safety position this season. we needed DESPERATE help for a#1 wide receiver this season (even his second round draft pick at receiver is projected as a #2).

i have seen some really bad games over the years but i think this game ranks up there as maybe the worst performance ever. when there is absolutely no redemption in any aspect of the game it's truly mindboggling!! this is not disapointing it's tragic that any coaching staff could general a game like we witnessed. some ramblings: 1. defensive line... i don't ever in my lifetime remember a whole defensive line being pushed back 4 yds into the endzone in a slant block like i saw yesterday. it was like at practice shoving the sleds. every D lineman in the nfl should see this as a training film on what not to do if you expect a career in the nfl. if anyone wants to make a statement about dusty today and how he compares to tank johnson feel free to jump right in. in 2-3 + plays i saw him personally getting stood up and shoved back 2-5 yards from the LOS. this from our "run stopping" defensive tackle?? if he can't turn his play around by the end of the season it's yet another angelo BUST who will play second or third in rotation if lucky. 2. linebackers... if anyone thinks roach is a special player and our next starting linebacker you better take a very good look at the game film. url? in my opinion if we had a real defense that utilized his talents the way they should be he would be just fine. briggs? the best backer on our team and plays like an all-pro. in fact one of the few players on the entire defense who is playing for crap. 3. safeties... brown was the ONLY player out who actually played with emotion and pride. it's too bad he is nearing the end of his career. and all the love for payne?? this guy is atrocious. his angle of attack is poor to say the least and his tackling technique is some of the worst i have ever seen. if this coaching staff can't teach this guy to actually wrap up and tackle a player instead of trying to wrestle him down above the waist while losing 5 yds every tackle he should have a great career in the arena league. 4. corners... vasher is toast. he can't even do the job playing 8 yds off the LOS. his angles are flat out bad and his tackling is pathetic. vestee jackson's clone. peanut? our best corner is average at that position in MOST circumstances. he would flat out excell as a free safety but our clueless leaders haven't seen it. surprise. 5. offensive line.... if anyone thinks this line is good ten games into the season just shout it out. tait is a dinosaur and got his ass handed to him by kampmon all game long. st. clair barely holds the corner. our guards you ask? where is the push to give our running backs room to move through? how really good is our pass protection? pitiful, just plain pitiful. COACHING... this is one pitiful excuse of a coaching staff with the exception of our special teams coach and he only gets a bye because we decimate his ranks every year and leave him with crap to work with. you know, a coach has to be able to teach and reinforce his players the basics of football. these people have no clue at all how to make players better than when they were drafted. finally, if what i heard said in interviews about how much extra time they spent preparing for this game is true, all i can say is.... WOW!!!!!! ANGELO... i can't believe nobody mentions this. if anyone can say this guy is a genius i'm dumbfounded. this is where most of our problems COME from!!! we have pissed away 7 years of drafts where we could have really strengthened our offense instead of drafting the same crap over and over at the wrong positions. we fired a defensive coordinator who had a top 5 defense in chicago to get what we now have. amazing. yes, i am 100% in the rivera corner now especially after watching the bolts in pit. good job angie. we signed a $10 mil 7th round db draft pick who is waived and in the meantime we watch an all-pro guard in faneca sign someplace else. we don't even have a #1 WR on this entire team AND our safeties are suspect at the start of the season to say the LEAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i am now definately in the get rid of these guys, as a whole, camp. the sooner we see the end of this regime the better off we will 'probably' be.

thanks for the info. i do have to say this concerns me that we basically killed $10 mil this season when we had serious pressing needs on our offense like guard. anybody that was rooting for free agents like faneca or any other high priced offensive talent (tackle, guard, wide receiver) should be collectively groaning. if angie was trying for a rollover of cash for 2009 doesn't that say he already threw in the towel for this season? hmmm i think this can also conclude any argument regarding free agent signing bonus money coming out of mccasky's deep pockets that has been argued in the past.

WAIT A MINUTE.... after rereading this it doesn't make any sense. it states in the article that he was waived by the bucs and THEN says " it's a product of the contract Hamilton signed with the Buccaneers and the Bears inherited when they claimed him". if you are "waived" by a team how does the contract rollover to a team that picks you up? if it DOESN'T then angie just gave him the same type of contract tying up THAT much cap room? for a 7th round draft pick that was waived and who NEVER played a regular season down in his only year in the nfl????? come on cap people, talk me off the ledge.

i have this question for those who follow the cap: in order to obtain hamilton in a trade, don't you HAVE to have that $10 mil in cap room to start with just in case he meets incentives? in other words can you sign a player you traded for whose contract is still viable with the other team without having the cash in cap room your new acquisition may or may not get paid? if so we had $10-12 mil in cap space and used it on this guy? that would be an amazing revelation considering the needs we had this offseason.

i would think on passing plays they use the TE, FB, HB to help block on the outside if the tackle is getting whacked by the end or some creative qb calls. the guards and center are holding the middle. i agree our d-ends are not playing as well as the past and is as you, me and other say it probably has to do with our scheme. same goes for the rest of the d and includes using stunts as a way to break up the rhythm and predictability as we have talked about. but.... end play also has a lot to do with pressure up the middle. if there is a solid pocket to step up into or open passing lanes it makes it much harder for the ends to get to the qb or hurry him. just to note, i don't believe tank was an all-pro player and didn't collapse the pocket every down. but i do think he worked extremely well with t. harris and did have to be accounted for by the offense in a passing situation. he was quick off the snap and had a lot of power which did create a lot more problems for o-linemen than anyone currently starting in chicago. this did have a very positive effect in our pass rush compared to what we have now. the comparison between babs and rivera have to do with scheme and in my opinion not about the quickness and power of tank vs whoever. all of our tackles now and then play the gap type defense and come off the ball to push up the middle basically the same. the difference to me is one pushes the pocket in more consistently than the others flushing out the qb or at the least not leaving room to move up. there is the true comparison i was making. i agree this is NOT the complete reason for our slide to mediocrity. but i feel tank helped out our pass rush up the middle. whether the other aspects of our defense would become better because of it i can't say. i can only assume it would at least in some important aspects.

i am not sure what you mean by the ends getting blocked by guards thus freeing up the dt's. i think you need to rethink that statement. as far as de's not being used correctly? i have no argument with you on that. finally: yet again you quote me on statements i NEVER made. did i ever say if tank was here we would have the best defense in the nfl? simply put, no. what i have stated and will continue to state is that tank had more push up the middle than any of the tackles mentioned. don't just keep telling me it ain't so, LOOK FOR YOURSELF!!! do some research, watch some games tank played in and compare his rush to any #2 tackle on this defense currently playing. EDIT: as far as this dallas nonsense.... it can't be compared because it's not only a different team but a different type of defense with different philosophies, different coaching agenda's, and different players.

it's NOT the difference between babs and rivera that determine how much penetration a tackle gets per individual play. it's different physical and mental aspects each individual player executes in the same situation!!! go back and look at how they compare getting pressure on the qb.

this is laughable. do you KNOW why boone AND scott were usually rotated in? not only to stay fresh but because they were RUN STOPPING widebody tackles used mostly on rushing down situations!!! also are you now going to tell me haynes was a DT? or idonije in 2004-2006???? just to be clear on the stats issue, i used them as reference to support not only my opinion but my observations of actually WATCHING these tackles play. are you going to tell me you didn't see any/little difference in the push up the middle tank got compared to boone, scott and now dusty?? really? i will say it yet AGAIN for the final time... i NEVER stated tank is/was a stud. i SAID he is a good #2 tackle and is/was better than any tackle we currently have on this roster as our #2 rushing the passer in a gap type defense lovie smith runs in chicago!!! i don't give two $&!($ what he does or doesn't do in dallas now or forever!!! in our type of defense tank was better than ANYONE you have mentioned in consistently creating a push into the pocket. when scott/boone (and now dusty/harrison) came in they were basically plugging up the line rather than attacking the qb because they got virtually no consistent push up the middle!! if you don't believe it go back and LOOK at the games and compare the players. today our defense forms a picketline around our opponents qb's in which they can stand there all day. if our de's actually DO pressure them they simply step up into the pocket because NOBODY is there to stop them or flush them out. so if it's not the difference in the quality of pass rushing tackles what is it?

what ever... this is EXACTLY what you said - "I simply don't believe the dropoff (if any) between Tank and our current DTs is really much." who you crappin? then why are YOU? you are saying there is little difference in our pass rush by dusty/harrison? all i can say is... wow. where are you getting this stuff? show me ANYWHERE i EVER said we don't/didn't utilize a rotation.

as i have stated repeatedly tank is a good #2 tackle who excelled in the gap type of defense we run in chicago because of his strength, speed and quickness. that is why angelo drafted him! how his talent relates to another type of defensive scheme i can't say. but believe me or not when i tell you certain players can excel in one type of defense and can be mediocre in another. if you don't believe that i am not going to argue the point with you.

first, i am not defending babich in any way. i completely believe rivera had a more aggressive and creative type of defense whether he ran more stunts or not. i think he certainly ran more man coverages and was more creative in his blitz packages. but... it also can be said that of late babs has run more line stunts than he has in the past and we are still seeing the same results. so how does that relate to your assumption it is all on our dc as to how much pressure our defensive tackles put on a qb? second, in regards to our db's playing off the line. this has virtually nothing to do with how much penetration our tackles are getting. also, i am not seeing what you say you are observing. our corners have been playing off the LOS for years and certainly post mcquarters. it WAS tried putting peanut AND vasher up in bump and run until they got burned so bad and so consistently they moved them back off the line. do i think they are playing out of position by giving that much cushion? absolutely. it has and will continue to kill us ESPECIALLY since we get no pressure on the qb.

did you take into consideration how many games tank was suspended or didn't play in for that season? let's look at this in perspective... over 3 years dusties sacks = 0. over 3 years tanks = 9 there is no way you can compare what isn't there. the fact is tank got push up the middle, tank DID sack the qb AND stop the run. the last i heard getting to the qb is the MAIN problem with our defense!!! the statistics >>>CLEARLY you can spin this however you want but the facts don't lie. dusty DOES NOT push the pocket backwards and tank DID and the sack stats prove it. a coincidence that our defense is flat out bad? i think not.

first of all he is/was behind another starting tackle in dallas if i am not mistaken. second and most important.... this is NOT the same type of defense we run in chicago. there is NO comparison between what they run and a cover 2.

first, i never said tank was "elite". i said he was a good #2 tackle and better than what we have and in my opinion it is a large PART of the reason we get no push up the middle. and who disagreed with you or nfo? now, are you saying rivera stunted more than babs and that's the reason why we get no push up the middle anymore? if so show me the game stats that there was more stunting by rivera and that has caused a drop off of pressure from our tackles on the qb.

hold that phone a little tighter, YOU'RE the one who said there was not much drop off from dusty to tank! does the unreliability of dusty staying healthy skew the actual fact that production from dusty doesn't equal that of tank over a 3 year period? so then what you are saying is that it takes TWO of our tackles to equal one tank? one to stop the run and one to rush the passer? if harrison is so great why isn't HE starting? my bad on missing the two. i am doing both. first: it was stupid letting him go (i DON'T want to start that type of thread again so take it for what it's worth) second: if it takes TWO players to equal one, that's not a loss to you?? that's like saying that mark anderson and alex brown equals richard dent.

huh?? that makes NO sense at all. don't you think the production of key players are reflected by the guys in the trenches next to them?? you say our de's were not better because of tank. i contend that one of the major problems of our de's is they are NOT getting any help by our tackles push up the middle!!! the qb's are NOT getting flushed out of the pocket so our de's can GET their hands on them. as it stands qb's have a solid ring of offensive bodies forming a pocket to step up INTO!! look up the sack stats since tank left. a. brown: 2004 - 6 sacks 2005 - 6 sacks 2006 - 7 sacks 2007 (no tank) 4.5 sacks 2008 9no tank) 3 sacks after 1/2 season walley: 2004 - 5 sacks 2005 - 10 sacks 2006 (injury year?) 6.5 sacks 2007 - (no tank) 9 sacks 2008 - (no tank) 1.5 sacks anderson: 2006 - 12 sacks 2007 - (no tank) 5 sacks 2008 - (no tank) 0 sacks could it be that tank and tommie together got enough penetration to, at the least, harass the qb? hmmm sorry, but this has nothing to do with the push your tackles get in the center of the line. you are entitled to your opinion as am i. but i think there would be a difference with a tackle that has that initial quicknes/burst of speed along with the power to push your guards and tackles back into the pocket. with dusty we just haven't seen it.

ok, what is the biggest problem on defense this season? if you said rushing the passer you get a cigar. let's look at tanks stats in chicago: 2004 - 1 start played in 16 games - 12 tackles, 9 solo, 3 assists - .5 sacks 2005 - 4 games started and played in 16 - 25 tackles, 19 solo and 6 assists - FIVE sacks with 2 passes defended 2006 - 14 games and 10 starts - 26 tackles, 22 solo, 4 assists - 3.5 sacks, 1 safety, 1 pass defended hmmmmm that's NINE sacks in 3 season and THREE passes defended!!!!!!!1 now let's look at our friend dusty: 2006 - 0 games played 2007 - 1 game played, 1 game started - 1 tackle, 1 solo - 0 sacks 2008 - 8 games played, 8 games started - 22 tackles, 18 solo, 1 assist - 0 sacks hmmmm, NO sacks, NO passes defended now, tell me WHO was the bigger contributor to what ails this franchise?

sorry but i just have to disagree on multiple aspects. i DON'T believe dusty is even close to the production we got out of tank as our #2 tackle. tank was good not only at stopping the run but putting pressure on the qb. he not only had pretty good speed for a guy that big but was quick off the snap and had a lot of push up the middle. how many times have you seen dusty knocking down an opponents thrower? so to me that makes dusty a one dimensional tackle, at least at this point in his career, and one not even as good as keith traylor at stopping the run. rivera? what does rivera have to do with quickness and power coming out of the blocks for a defensive tackle to get push up the middle? it's not like we are playing a totally different scheme since rivera left and especially the tackle position. we still are putting them into the gaps. as far as the d as a whole i agree. we need/ed a dc like rivera who isn't a yes man and has more options in his bag of tricks.

to me fisher is the real deal and in my opinion the best head coach in the entire nfl. the guy can coach teams with and without talent, not to mention he can actually coach players to be better than they are. after the superbowl they were in cap hell and had to dump all their money players yet fisher got the absolute most out of the talent he had. he also seems to be able to bring in talented coordinators and coaching personnel that just plain get the job done. sighhhhh..... at the time we were looking around for a HC and ended up with jauron, i believe, i was hoping there would have been a way we could have offered fisher the moon to leave the titans. i think that is the same year they re-upped his contract.

i really don't want to bring up the tank debates again but i have to say i think it was a mistake letting him go. some food for thought... could tank missing in action in chicago have anything to do with how our d-line and especially t. harris has played since he left? hmmmmmm, i wonder.

i really hope you are right but i wouldn't count on it. the titans have a real defense that can not only get to the qb but plays the pass well. they will be sending the dogs and unless our o-line has a pro-bowl day look for a lot of pressure and/or sacks. this is the worst case nightmare scenario for any qb coming into his first game of the year. man do i wish fisher was the HC in chicago.

i agree... the talking heads, including hampton, are off base on this one. who gives two $%!&'$ WHO spikes the freakin ball.

here's the deal... at this point grossman is one of the best backup, #2 qb's, in the nfl. this is not competition for our starting job anymore. everyone should really be happy we have this quality of a backup in chicago. especially when we look back at the quinn's and burris's that have started here. that said, he is in all probability going to play like a #2 and have ups and downs like any other backup qb in the league. to boo him or complain about a #2 qb's play etc. unless it becomes consistently atrocious is just plain silly. if it comes to that point, our coaching staff should get the boo's for not replacing him by that time with another backup, not grossman.

i have to disagree with *reservations. if you look at our needs as a team vs. individual positions drafted, 2007 is a poor draft for the health of our franchise. round 1 i expect very good to excellent starters. round 2 i expect good to very good starters. round 3 i expect good+ starters/backups who may take a year or two to develop into quality starters. here is why i question this... offense: linemen - without any doubt we were at critical mass to draft offensive linemen. we virtually had no left tackle, our left guard remembers the maine, our center is aging fast, our right guard has played average, and we have a good+ right tackle playing the wrong position (LOT) and is himself getting up in age. it's innexcusable for a gm to not to take this into account!! to draft ONE lineman in the 4th round, a smaller replacement projected to play center in probably the strongest position on our aging offensive line, is mindboggling. if you want quality players you draft tackles in rounds 1-2 and quality guards in rounds 2-3. rounds 4-5 for project guards and good depth. quarterback - was also a real need. we were going into the 2007 season with an eratic, oft injured grossman whose contract was UP at the end of the season. his backup was griese, an aging vet nobody would project as a quality starter for the long haul, and orton a young qb who had played average at best the previous year. a first day pick, if the quality was there, was certainly warranted. if you want quality players you draft qb's on the first day. wide receiver? - the only real threat to play #1 was on the last year of his contract. it could be said this would have been a wasted pick without any real qb in our future and maybe so. running back - we were set with our 5th pick in the draft and even let a producing free agent running back, jones, leave. so that left us solid at that position with peterson and any ham and egg free agent to fill in at #3. tight end: fairly solid but not spectacular at that point. usually picked in rounds 3-4 unless one is exceptional. defense: defensive ends - good to very good DE's with plenty of depth. brown, ogy, anderson, odoniji. no need what-so-ever. tackles - all pro harris, tank a good+ tackle plus a lot of depth. no need there for a first day pick. linebackers - probably the most solid position on our entire team. all-pro's briggs and url with an average hilly, and plenty of depth even if briggs was in the final year of his contract. safeties - this was the only position on defense that warranted a first day pick. manning was failing to fill in the free safety spot and brown was always injured. this is a critical position in the defense we run. cornerback - again a solid starting crew in vasher and peanut. no first day priority. that leaves us with offensive need at the top of the list and safety for the first day. and what do we do? other than olson, a no brainer pick in the first round, we draft at every position of strength on our team. we draft bazuin, an injured de from a small school in round 2, a position we are in no need at all, we draft okwo in round 3 a physical reach at a position we are strongest in, and our 2nd pick in the 3rd round we pick a small runningback from a small school who projects as a special team player due to his size in another very strong position on our team. this does not lead to "panning out very well", in my opinion, when you ignore completely the real needs of your team on the first day. - Olsen + (looks to be breaking out) - a solid pick but a no brainer as he dropped further than expected for this good of a player. - Bazuin - (el busto) - a complete mistake drafting not only a player of this calibre from a small school but a defensive end at all. - Okwo - (el busto but Angelo did go get Nick Roach who has looked very good on special teams) - a REACH for a player of this talent into a position of strength on our defense. - Wolfe + (leads special teams in tackles this yr; just scored his 1st TD) - again another reach for a player whose physical aspects project him as a special teams player or at best a #2 runningback. in my opinion, you DON'T draft first day players to be special team players or for depth!!! these should be the quality potential all-pro pro-bowl calibre talent. 2nd day picks: i question angelo on trading down from higher picks to draft these late round players in the 7th round when we usually just cut them. where is the value in that? anyway... - Payne + (starting and leading the team in tackles and interceptions) a decent 5th round pick at a need position. so far he is playing average at best with a lot of room for imporvement. - Graham + (has started last 3 games and is a special teams stud) - another decent 5th round pick. the problem does rise as to whether we needed another defensive back or offensive lineman more. - McBride + (started 9 games last yr and did a very good job in relief last week) - again a good pick at this position in the draft (7th round) so on a final note, first day picks round 1-3 are critical picks to get right. not only is this where you are putting up major portions of your salary cap, but is where you find the best athletes you expect to be QUALITY starters. this is where angelo has failed to a major degree. *it's too early to give any of these players a true grade as to their value at this time.