Lucky Luciano

i can see trying to put a good spin on someone knocking your players when they are struggling, but this may be over the top. lovie... are you serious??? he asks us to look at the last game after stating we got some good pressure. good pressure on who? matt ryan was in a bubble the entire game. does he think we are blind, stupid or both?? if not he has some serious problems. haley... rounding into shape? he is back to his old self? our defensive line LOOKED like they were dancing with the stars the entire game!!! if harris is back to his old self and this is the performance we are going to expect from him throughout his career, this is another angelo bust. this is plain scary hearing nonsense like this from our coaches.

sorry, but NO we don't. let me clarify this... i am specifically talking about our defensive backs as should have been clear in my post. our d-line and backers are a different story. you certainly can't believe that half a defense (and even that half has some serious problems) that fits this scheme is considered adequate to play a cover 2. i don't care what angie drafted for since lovie arrived. the point is the corners and safeties are not adequate to run it effectively. corners: 1) peanut was NOT drafted to play in lovies cover 2 scheme. peanut was drafted to cover the big receivers in our division like moss and (names escape me at the moment) the big receivers in green bay. he did that job well. he was complimented then (supposedly) with quick fast corners like mcquarters who could play with and cover the smaller faster wideouts. then came the cover 2... the pluses with peanut is he is great against the run which IS a requirement for the cover 2, he is a very good tackler in open space also a plus in any scheme. the biggest problem with peanut is as our #1 cb he CAN'T play up on the LOS and jam the quick recievers. unless he has greatly improved and our coaching staff is hiding his talent, he doesn't get his hands on the receiver at the snap to slow up or change his route or for that matter turn and run with them. he has numerous times gotten toasted trying to do this as the receiver just jukes him and blows on by untouched into his route with peanut 2-5+ yards behind. 2) vasher can't play bump and run at the LOS either. he is an average tackler with average speed and again, unless he has improved greatly and our coaches just hide his talents, he gets ripped playing up against any fast receivers. safeties: 1) m. brown was also not drafted to play cover 2. a cover 2 defense is paramount in having fast, smart safeties that can cover large chunks of ground in coverage. in the past brown compensated for his lack of speed with football smarts. 2) fill in a name here... d. manning was drafted for his speed but certainly doesn't have the football smarts to play in this type of defense. payne? how good is he in coverage, how fast? an unknown at this point as he has some issues. steltz? so, which safeties in chicago, in your estimation, are adequate to play this type of defense if all the cover 2 pieces are in place? huh??? you say we have the players to play this type of defense but it doesn't show on the field? that doesn't make any sense. if it doesn't "show on the field" isn't it a logical conclusion we don't have the players to play this scheme as it was intended? or maybe you think our entire coaching staff is insane? if you don't believe this is a requirement in 'most' instances of a corner in the cover 2 to jam the receiver at the LOS and/or move him off his route and/or cover him until he either moves into another zone towards the center of the field or gets safety help on a deep route you are mistaken. i don't know of any defensive scheme that is construed to give up 5-10 passing yards in the flats or on slants uncontested every play except in deep prevent. common sense should tell anyone that when you give that kind of cushion you have literally let all receivers go completely unmolested in their routes because of the 5 yard rule!! the ONLY reason we can get away with it is if the d-line is getting serious pressure on the qb. in other words we are compensating for the failure of one point of our defense with above average play from another. you "question" that our corners are NOT bump and run corners??? i guess i don't understand. in one sentence you are talking about how big of a cushion they give and the next you say they are bump and run corners. are you saying lovie/babich specifically want to give that big of a cushion to wide receivers when their players CAN play bump and run defense? if that is the case lovie and babich need to be fired immediately for gross stupidity. about the NO playoff game. did you look at the tape of that game to see where our corners WERE playing in regards to the LOS? they could have played off and still been man coverage. we could have just plain played less cover 2 than normal. even if peanut did play up, which is in contention, does colston relate to the type of receiver that peanut CAN cover well up and what he was drafted to do? so look it up and tell me specifically how and where we played and not just that brees "said" we played man coverage. i don't know about you, but if our corners were good enough to put their toes on the LOS and jam the receivers at the line and follow them into coverage i would be extatic. the point is, unless you have some information otherwise, our corners aren't good enough to do it. as far as your statement of 3-5 yrds off. would it be better than what we are doing? yes if they didn't get burned consistantly. but... they would have to be moving toward the LOS to do it legally or standing still. that would be disaster as the quick wideouts would blow by them without slowing down. again i will state... if this coaching staff intentionally has our corners playing that soft IF they could play bump and run tight coverage they should be fired. PERIOD!!! huh again!! what benefits our safeties? that our corners can't play tight coverage at the LOS? or if they did that the safeties would be trying to get into position to cover wide open receivers in full stride by themselves because our corners are trailing them by 5 yards??? haven't you been watching the bears over the last 8 years? they HAVE tried bump and run. the reason we are running the soft corners is because they get BEAT like drums!!! if they could play tight they would be. even i don't think lovie is that stupid.

here is the problem with your analysis.... we don't have the personnel to run the cover 2 to utilize it to it's full advantage (if there is one anymore. i am not a fan of this either). you ask why we don't put our corners closer to the LOS. this is extremely important in this type of defense. the answer is they are not bump and run man corners. we have seen this in the past where peanut did play up and got his hat handed to him by quick/fast wideouts. the same thing WITH vasher. whether either has improved any since lovie has been here is unclear but clearly in the past they got toasted playing bump and run. can they be coached to compensate? i don't know. i would think it could be possible to adjust their technique but if it is, our coaching staff hasn't found the answer to it. second... we don't have safeties to play this type of defense. yet we continue to pound square pegs into round holes to run it. so that leaves our entire db's at a disadvantage running it.

not so sure... i did see tillman lining up as the R corner, i believe, to cover white specifically. whether this was done throughout the game or on specific occasions i can't testify to without looking at the tape. but it did happen.

this is not totally correct. the outside backers, and briggs if you like, job is to key on the fullback, the running back and tight ends (and throw in mobile qb's into this mix if they come up) 'generally'. what is happening in our scheme is the wide outs are blowing by any zone covered by the backers because the corners are playing so far off the LOS that by the time they engage it's 5-10 yrds past the LOS. if as you say the backers were to move to the sideline to cover these wideout slants and curls they would be totally out of position and the corners job would be to stick his thumb up his arse and watch every play develop in front of him. now.... your statement that we play 40% or less cover 2 is probably true though. which brings us to the brick wall we have run into since lovie has been in chicago. if we HAD picked up a primo 'cover' corner around 3 years ago like we sure as hell should have we wouldn't be having these discussions nearly so often. instead we let woodson go to our rival in green bay while we have 2 highly paid starting corners who CAN'T play bump and run man coverage because they plain suck at it.

QUOTE (balta1701-A @ Oct 13 2008, 12:19 PM) * Here's the question with that statement...if Norwood takes it at the goal line and returns it 50 yards, how much time does it take off of the clock compared to the shorter return from the squib kick? norwood must be the fastest human on the planet.... "January 29, 1988 in History Event: Canadian Ben Johnson breaks own 50-yard dash world record at 5.15" http://www.brainyhistory.com/events/1988/j...988_160858.html

i have said this before and will say this again.... the reason these slants and passes into the flats for 8-10+ yards nearly ALWAYS works is because we play our corners about 5 yds of the LOS. as soon as the ball is snapped they start backpeddling. this leaves the receivers with about 8 or more yards of free space. i would also like to mention that this leaves every receiver untouched in his route because we CAN'T touch him after 5 yds!! so, as soon as the ball is thrown our corners make their play (which is too late) and the end results are an easy completion that moves the sticks. for this god forsaken cover 2 crap to even WORK you need the corners to play bump and run at the LOS to slow up their routes and move the receivers into the center of the field. the reason we don't do this is because in the past both our starting corners CAN'T play bump and run without getting blown up by the quick and fast receivers. yet our coaches continue to use this approach game after game!! i would also like to make one comment... if our defense has given up 10+ yrds per pass throughout the game, why would you give them great field position with a squib kick and the chance to do it all over again? ESPECIALLY when both your starting corners with experience are out of the game with injuries!!!!!!!!!!!! EDIT: add to this fact that even our nickle players, mcbride AND d. manning were out with injuries along with peanut and vasher.

i agree but not in hind sight. gould has been putting the ball close to if not ON the goal line on his deep kickoffs. the clock starts when the returner first touches the ball. with 11 seconds in the game there are two possibilities on a deep kick: 1. the returner downs the ball with a fair catch or kneel at the spot of reception, in the endzone it goes to the 20, to give his offense the last shot (2 plays at best) to win the game deep in his own territory. the odds are extremely unlikely to move the ball 40-45 yards in 11 seconds and still have time to kick a field goal even with 2 timeouts. 2. the returner goes all out to score in a do or die situation. to run 100 yards is nearly impossible in a situation such as we were in. the odds are verrry high against doing so. if he goes all out strictly for the zone he more than likely gets tackled with time expired. in fact i can't even remember the last kickoff return for a td against chicago. so... if he goes for or is forced to revert to field goal position in his return and he receives the ball on the goal line, he has to run 60-65 yards (35-40 yard line of chicago) just to down the ball to set up for a field goal. the fastest 50 yard dash in history was run by ben johnson in 1988 at a time of 5.15 seconds. so even a world class runner on a STRAIGHT fast track would take about 6 seconds to run 60 yards. if there is a football player running through traffic that can run 60+ yards in less than 11 seconds in football gear i would like to know who it is. so that leaves the squib... falcons return man fielded the ball around the 30-35 yard line and ran 8-10 yards to around their own 45 yard line in 5 seconds. you just put the other team in a position to make one doeable 20 yard pass (rather than forcing a hail mary most likely out of any qb's range) and a timeout/out of bounds in 6 seconds. close but obviously not impossible. STUPID call lovie!!! end of game, end of story.

have to disagree noots on a few points: 1. the defensive line deserves a complete F- for their performance. there was nothing redeeming about this game from them in any way shape or form. they and the coaching staff lost this game for chicago!!!! we took a rookie qb and made him look like joe montana in his prime. he had open passing lanes all game long, he could have baked a freakin cake behind the line waiting for his receivers to get open (not like that was difficult due to the soft play from our corners). even on rollouts there wasn't a bear within 5 yrds of him when he released the ball 90% of the time. by the way, is tommie harris plain nuts or is he just pissed because of the week off? i don't think i have seen anything like that 'fumble', if you can call it that, in my entire life. lovie should have cracked his helmet open like an egg on the sideline. to think how much has been spent in salary and draft picks to put up what we saw today is simply mindboggling. 2. coaching staff.... F. being behind by SIX points late in the 4th quarter you decide to go for it on 4th and goal??? you decide to run it AGAIN when it didn't work on 3rd and goal??? you take the freakin POINTS unless the game is in the last minute or two of the game!!! do you think that after watching ryan chew up our defensive backs for 8-10 yrd chunks all day in soft zones they could tighten up their coverage?? obviously not. and speaking of mckie, did you see our great FB lead blocker laying on the ground in the hole he was supposed to clear for forte on 4th down? was it REALLY neccessary with ELEVEN seconds left in the game to squib kick it? REALLY lovie???? would it be too complicated for this staff to realize that with SIX seconds left in the freakin game and your opponent is on their own 40+ yrd line there is time for ONE deep play only and the LAST thing you want is to have a soft deep coverage called AND defend it to the middle of the field??????????????????????????? you HAVE to take the sideline away in a situation like that!!!!!!! we may be lost, but we are making good time. what a thoroughly disgusting game.

one concern in regards to the run is that payne has to start tackling better. for what ever reason he keeps trying to tackle backs and te's above the waist and gets dragged for extra yardage. this is something that our coaching staff should have addressed by game 2 but............

if you only look at stats i could possibly agree with your statements. the point is forte is the best looking back i have 'seen' play in chicago in quite some time. it's the elusiveness, the quickness, the speed and power that impress me. he has a rare and extremely important talent needed in a back called 'balance'. payton had it, neil anderson had it, and to some extent raymont harris had it also. the ability to get hit and not only stay on your feet but have the ability to drag tacklers along with him for extra yards. this is a critical component in a pro running back. as many have said it is a bit early in his career to make him an all-pro player but he certainly has impressed me so far. as far as the orton reference... i don't believe i have ever been unfair in his evaluation. he has improved steadily this season building upon good things and actually getting better with the problems he has faced. although it's too early to anoint him our franchise qb, he certainly may just become that if he continues to improve. we will have a better idea what we have in orton by the last few games of the season.

i think our offensive lines run blocking should be a concern more than forte. the holes just aren't there plus we aren't getting much push off the LOS. i give forte a lot of credit for just getting what he is getting.

i have to wonder.... how good this team would be if more than ONE first day pick in 7 years were starting on offense. not to mention, it took THREE first day picks at the same position in 4 years to fill that specific spot.

i have to disagree that every scheme can be good if players just execute. in my opinion any scheme is dependant upon players executing as you stated. that is a given. but... having the right personel to run it is paramount to any schemes success. if you run a cover 2 specific types of players are key to it's success. 1) you need tackles to push in the pocket and pressure the qb. 2) you need a good mlb who can cover a lot of ground and cover up the middle. 3) you need corners who can play tight on the LOS and move the recievers into the center of the field and who are also good at stopping the run. in this cover 2 we seem to want to run we don't have the corners to do it consistantly and it shows. our corners are playing 5-10 yds off the LOS because they CAN'T play bump and run with the quicker receivers. that is one reason why the slants and crossing routes make such good yardage against us all day long. i like peanut a lot and he excels at what he was drafted for... covering the big receivers like moss. his problem is he can't cover the speedsters, thus the big cushion. that is why over the years i have screamed for him to be moved to free safety and bring in a solid cover corner who CAN play bump and run at the LOS. vasher is another corner who can't play up because he gets eaten alive by quick/fast wide outs. and finally, good safeties are paramount in the cover 2... you need FAST and smart safeties who have the ability to make up large distances to either help your corner in coverage or lock down that zone on their own. this we DON'T have. brown was at one time smart enough to compensate for lack of speed. but has he lost even more due to his knee injury to where it just is not enough to be smart? i don't know. i do know all of our other safeties are seriously lacking in multiple area's. i also agree with your opinion that the cover 2 is used probably about 40% of the time. in fact i would say even less. this makes it even more critical to have corners who can cover man. so to me, this is where good coaching vs bad coaching becomes a factor. if he doesn't or can't adjust or change his "scheme" to the players he is forced to put on the field he, in my opinion, is a poor coach and has no business collecting a pro league paycheck. it is also true that even with the personel needed to run the type of "scheme" that he wants, he HAS to be able to make adjustments to compensate for real-time game situations. this not only means making adjustments at half time but throughout the game as it progresses. if he can't see or compensate for these real-time situations he is limiting the team's full potential to only one half of football or less. i think many could say that this is a real problem in chicago on both sides of the ball.

it's a bit early to throw the baby out with the bathwater. orton has started only five games (excluding his rookie year). like any young qb he has made some bad decisions and had some accuracy problems but i think it's way to early to sum up his career at this point. i disagree orton has to be able to throw deep balls for this team to succeed. what he HAS to do is be accurate in the 10-15 yard range, he has to hit his receivers in stride in the 5-10 yard patterns and let the receivers make YAK. one other thing i want to mention... i look at our arial attack and it seems to me that many if not MOST of our passing plays to our wideouts require the receiver to reach a spot, stop, turn and catch the pass (and usually be tackled immediately). they are not DESIGNED to hit a player in stride. they are not DESIGNED to give your receivers the best chance at YAK. although this may be fine to beat some zone coverages at times in a game, this to me is not how you want to set up the bastardized type of west coast offense we try to run. this also holds true on these horrible sideline passes we keep throwing game after game after game to no ones surprise. to sum it up, i think orton HAS shown some very good things. not enough to say he is a lock as a starting qb in the nfl but enough to show with some work it is POSSIBLE for him to become a #1. on a final note: i also am not convinced this coaching staff has scripted a complete game plan to help him out either.

this is dej a vu all over again. this whole game looked almost exactly the same as it has over the last 2 years without any improvement on our play calling. we get a lead or keep it close the first half only to completely collapse in the second on offense. i''m sorry but that is play calling and coaching. is there something i am missing, in that orton does not throw anything close to a high percentage ball down field at this point in his career, yet we waste 2 critical downs making THAT point the hard way? this game looked like it was schemed to have grossman as our qb and not orton. is there some reason we keep throwing these sideline passes to our wideouts for '0' yards time after time? if i recall correctly it was 5-6 times in this game we try the same play that got us nothing before with the same results. has anyone tallied up how many tackles paine has missed over the last 2 games? how about mcgown? with strong safety play like this is it any wonder we get run on? while i'm at it, where is paine on coverage plays? two to three yards in limbo. where is mike brown in coverage? is vasher even AVERAGE? special teams, returns, were absolutely brutal today. poor decision making and penalties killed us. our offense nearly started every down in the second half inside their own 10 yard line. what a thoroughly disgusting performance today.

well, then i WILL say it... CHEAP IS A POSSIBILITY!! i have not only argued it is a >>>POSSIBILITY to keep giving the worn out justification that this franchise is somehow a big money player by paying large amounts of signing bonus money is untrue. the nfl doles out the money every year to pay player salaries, including these large bonus's, period! it is also untrue to say we have ever paid a head coach BESIDES wanny big bucks (who incidentely was when MIKEY was running the show) is also untrue. it is also untrue to state that our scouting dept. is large or well paid and is undocumented and unproven. so go ahead and think that this franchise is cheap if you want to until 'REAL' facts prove you are wrong.

i agree he will never end up on the practice squad and another team will pick him up. there is no way the bears go with 2 qb's into the season if they have half a brain, and hanie looks very good as a qb to develop into a possible future starter. the only knock at all i had on him was him staring down receivers which is very coachable and comes with experience. other than that he looks like he has been doing it in the nfl for 10 yrs!!

1) this leads me to ask... was there any steroids prescribed for his recovery over the last 3 years? has he had cortizone injections and if so how many (there is a limit how many you can safely have in one area per year or even ever?)? will he need steroid therapy or other types of drugs after his surgery? 2) this leaves at LEAST a 5-10+% chance he will never play football again due to an unsuccessful disk operation. 3) this also leaves a 10% chance that another herniated disk will occur in this same area. does anyone know whether williams was even CHECKED for stenosis? was williams subjected to an MRI of his spine at the combine or after by the bears? did the bears hire neurological doctors to check him prior to the draft for any neurological damage? or was dr. angelo just hoping for the best trying to get another bargain? i would also like to emphasize the problems with this type of injury... weakness of the extremities such as legs, a reoccurrence of debilitating pain or other disk damage that ‘could’ last for weeks at a time, as someone else has stated this is the absolute worst position in all football for this type of injury. not only is heavy training such as lifting massive amounts of weights as required for offensive linemen not good for this condition neither is his actual job description in which he is bent over and lifting/pushing dead weight defensive linemen and not using his legs to bear the weight in most instances. it also is a requirement to lose weight for this type of injury and yet OL are expected to weigh over 300 lbs! his age is a plus for a “full” recovery but how hopeful is it to remain so in this type of work? case in point is if he worked through it in college why then the lapse that cause him to have surgery. in my opinion it was a very, very risky move by the bears to pick a player that high in the draft with those questions to be answered. maybe angie should have tried to move up in the draft for long and settled on not only the best OT in the draft but one who was healthy.

drafted some.... how many you ask? 1) in 7years angie drafted 2 projected LOT's in the 1st round 6 years apart. LOT was a critical need for this franchise the day he stepped off the plane at o'hare. anyone who thinks you can bring in a FA at that position that isn't at the very end of his career is dreaming. 2) in 7 years angie has NEVER drafted an offensive tackle of any sort in the 2nd round. our need for tackles on both ends has been in critical mode with the exception of tait in the fold who didn't even play at his probowl quality position (ROT). instead he let tait play an average game at LOT which negated the huge contract we offered him. yup real smart. angie also has NEVER drafted a guard in this round when this has been a critical need since he let villareal (sp) go in free agency and tucker was injured year after year. 3) angie has drafted ONE guard in round 3 SIX years ago and '0' tackles in 7 years. after 2 seasons metcalf could't cut it as a tackle or guard as plainly seen by anyone yet he was our drafted future starter/depth for this entire time. 4) angie drafted ONE guard/center in round 4 in 7 years and '0' tackles!! this was beekman in 2007. 5) angie drafted '0' guards or tackles in round FIVE in 7 years!!!! 6) angie drafted ONE guard or tackle in round 6 in 7 years!!!!!! this is beyond pathetic when your OL is considered not worthy of picks before the 7th round. to say angelo has drafted players at these positions and it could be a problem with our coaching staff is simply laughable. sure there are exceptions to the rule, but generally if you want quality tackles you draft them in the first three rounds. if you want average talented starting guards you draft them in rounds 4-5. if you want probowl quality guards you draft them on the first day. it's a total disgrace as a GM if you can't even draft guards!!! any coaching staff needs quality drafted players to work with. if you give them camp fodder from the 7th round to develop players from you have just tied BOTH hands behind their backs to start out with even if they ARE good coaches. what angie has done is bring in other teams proven players in FA to fill in the gaps because he DOESN'T draft them or know a good one from a bad one. this leaves us with either super high priced players like tait or cast offs because of age or injury like miller, brown, and garza. this gives us a 2-3 year window for our line to work together before the FA's are burned out. there is NO continuity of players playing together and it shows. ask kreutz. 1) coaching on the offensive side of the ball has BEEN a problem in chicago for 50 years!! we lowball defensive minded head coaches and hire cheap offensive coordinators to compliment him. can anyone be surprised our offensive coaches are 2nd or 3rd rate?? we have never even had an OC go to another team in the nfl and even be good enough to coach at the same position he did in chicago let alone become a head coach. it's a joke. 2) angelo a defensive genius? for XXX's sake we only have 3-4 defensive players he has drafted in 7 years good enough to start!! that's genius? also if you keep drafting the same position players over and over again in the first 5 rounds you are bound to find a few don't you think? 3) the difference between drafting offensive players and getting them through FA is critical. although the players you bring in may be proven they eat up your cap space for good young ones and limit your choice on others to lesser talent or aging or injured vets because they are cheap enough to fit into your cap scenario. if you get them through the draft you have players playing together over a period of years which is a major plus and if they are good + you have averaged their rookie contracts out with their high resigning money instead of just paying the maximum amount like we did tait.

beck turns 27 years old in 2 weeks. not sure if this is a good situation for us to be in with him unless he looks capable and ready, similar to a manning or palmer, to get thrown into the mix.

to me a good GM builds the core of his starting teams through the draft. he then uses FA to fill in holes either due to injury, missing those FEW individual positions in the draft, or to enhance a superbowl run at a specific skill position that may be a weak link. special teams: other than kickers you should be able to fill your special teams with players you are grooming to take over a starting spot in the lineup or get them in the 5th - 7th rounds in the draft and even the walk-ons. the reasons why we have done so well with special team players is that angelo is missing at drafting high quality starting caliber players and coming up with tweaners or 2nd rate talent in the bulk of his drafts. when you have first day draft picks maxxing out talent wise on your special teams it is NOT a good situation. i don't know if you realize it but angelo's drafting almost 50/50 on first day draft picks, offense vs defense, over his tenure in chicago. if you wipe out half of your draft picks (offense) that is an amazing statistic. 2002-2007 4 to 2 offense in the 1st round and yet we have not a single penciled-in offensive starter out of our draft picks over a 6 year period. one on defense. 4 to 2 defense in the 2nd round and we have one penciled-in starter in tillman. 4 to 3 defense in the 3rd round and we have one penciled-in starter in briggs. that's 19 first day picks over a six year period and we have 3 starters on defense!! these are the quality rounds that drafted players could/should be able to start their rookie seasons and be future starters, not fatten up your special teams.

i'm not so sure he could. they don't have him listed as being the starter or announced it that i heard of. if he were, why give clark a new contract this offseason?

i agree. in my opinion angelo's drafts are not spectacular and the hard facts lie in the roster below. offense: not a SINGLE player angelo has drafted in 6 (this doesn't even count the 2008 season) years could be penciled as a 'sure thing' deserving starter this season. defense: 2 DE's (who play the same position) alex brown and mark anderson; 1 DT - tommie harris; 1 linebacker - lance briggs; 2 CB's - charles tillman and nathan vasher that totals 6 starters on this entire franchise that angie drafted that would be considered as sure starters on not only the bears but on most teams. Chicago Bears 2008 Roster No Name Pos Height Weight Age Exp Acquired 78 St. Clair, John T 6'5" 315 30 9 FA 76 Tait, John T 6'6" 312 33 10 FA 74 Williams, Chris T 6’6” 312 22 R 1st RD- 08 69 Barton, Kirk T 6’4” 305 23 R 7th RD- 08 79 Balogh, Cody T 6’6” 303 22 R U.D. - 08 63 Garza, Roberto G 6'2" 310 29 8 FA 67 Beekman, Josh G 6'2" 310 25 2 4th Rd - 07 60 Metcalf, Terrence G 6'4" 318 30 7 3rd Rd - 02 68 Oakley, Anthony G 6'4" 298 27 3 FA 64 Reed, Tyler G 6'4" 307 26 1 6th Rd – 06 72 Adams, Chester G 6’4” 325 23 R 7th RD - 08 70 Poles, Ryan G 6’4” 290 22 R U.D. - 08 57 Kreutz, Olin C 6'2" 292 31 11 3rd Rd - 98 65 Mannelly, Patrick LS 6'5" 265 33 11 6th Rd - 98 08 Grossman, Rex QB 6'1" 217 28 6 1st Rd - 03 18 Orton, Kyle QB 6'4" 217 25 4 4th Rd – 05 12 Hanie, Caleb QB 6’2” 225 22 R U.D. - 08 86 Booker, Marty WR 6'0” 210 30 10 3rd RD - 99 16 Bradley, Mark WR 6'2"198 26 4 2nd RD- 05 23 Hester, Devin WR 5'11" 186 26 3 2nd RD- 06 85 Bennet. Earl WR 6’ 203 21 R 3rd RD - 08 81 Davis, Rashied WR 5'9" 187 29 4 FA 80 Lloyd, Brandon WR 6’ 194 27 6 FA 84 Rideau, Brandon WR 6'3" 200 26 2 FA – 06 83 Hass, Mike WR 6'1" 206 25 2 U.D. 15 Grice-Mullen, Ryan WR 5’11” 180 21 R U.D. 19 Monk, Marcus WR 6’4” 212 22 R 7th RD- 08 88 Clark, Desmond TE 6'3" 249 31 10 FA 82 Olsen, Greg TE 6'5" 254 23 2 1st RD - 07 87 Davis, Kellen TE 6’7” 262 22 R 5th RD- 08 49 Stone, Marcus TE 6’2” 235 23 R U.D. 89 Mines, Fontel TE 6'4" 244 23 1 U.D. 22 Forte, Matt RB 6’2” 216 22 R 2nd RD- 08 27 Jones, Kevin RB 6’ 228 25 5 FA 25 Wolfe, Garrett RB 5'7" 186 24 2 3rd RD - 07 29 Peterson, Adrian RB 5'10" 210 29 7 6th RD - 02 47 Pope, P.J. RB 5'9" 212 24 2 U.D. 37 McKie, Jason FB 5'11" 245 28 7 U.D. 39 Polite, Lousaka FB 6'0" 242 27 4 U.D. 93 Ogunleye, Adewale DE 6'4" 260 31 8 FA 96 Brown, Alex DE 6'3" 260 29 7 4th RD– 02 97 Anderson, Mark DE 6'4" 255 25 3 5th RD - 06 73 Bazuin, Dan DE 6'3" 260 25 1 2nd RD- 07 99 Baldwin, Ervin DE 6’2” 260 21 R 7th RD - 08 72 Clemond, Joe DE 6’2” 250 23 R U.D. 79 Osborn, Nick DE 6’4” 260 23 R U.D. 91 Harris, Tommie DT 6'3" 295 25 5 1st RD- 04 98 Dvoracek, Dusty DT 6'3" 303 27 1 3rd RD - 06 94 Harrison, Marcus DT 6’3” 310 24 R 3rd RD- 08 95 Adams, Anthony NT 6'0" 300 28 6 FA 71 Idonije, Israel DT 6'6" 275 28 5 FA 75 Toeaina, Matt DT 6'2" 307 26 1 FA 54 Urlacher, Brian MLB 6'4" 258 30 9 1st RD- 00 55 Briggs, Lance OLB 6'1" 240 28 6 3rd RD - 03 92 Hillenmeyer, Hunter OLB 6'4" 238 28 6 FA 53 Okwo, Michael LB 5'11" 232 23 1 3rd RD - 07 52 Williams, Jamar LB 6'0" 237 24 3 4th RD - 06 59 Wilson, Rod LB 6'2" 230 27 3 7th RD– 05 90 LaRocque, Joey LB 6’2” 226 22 R 7th RD- 08 58 McClover, Darrell LB 6'1" 226 27 5 U.D. - 07 53 Roach, Nick LB 6'0" 234 23 2 U.D. - 07 30 Brown, Mike FS 5'10" 207 30 8 2nd RD- 00 36 McGowan, Brandon SS 5'11" 207 25 4 U.D. 38 Manning, Danieal S 5'11" 198 26 3 2nd RD- 06 44 Payne, Kevin SS 6'0" 212 25 1 5th RD– 07 20 Steltz, Craig S 6’1” 210 22 R 4th RD- 08 43 Gattis, Josh S 6'1" 213 28 2 FA 45 Peters, Leonard S 6’1” 205 26 1 U.D. 33 Tillman, Charles CB 6'1" 196 27 6 3rd RD - 03 31 Vasher, Nathan CB 5'10" 183 27 5 4th RD - 04 26 McBride, Trumaine CB 5'9" 185 23 2 7th RD - 07 24 Manning, Ricky DB 5'9" 193 28 6 FA 21 Graham, Corey CB 6'0" 195 28 2 5th RD - 07 35 Bowman, Zackary CB 6’1” 193 23 R 5th RD– 08 32 Brown, Trey CB 5’9” 185 23 R U.D. 46 Majors, Leslie CB 5’9” 175 22 R U.D. 9 Gould, Robbie K 6'0" 183 26 4 U.D. 4 Maynard, Brad P 6'1" 188 34 12 FA

Longjohn Silver gets my vote. his pirating spin moves on a peg leg would be much smoother than miller's bullfighting spin techniques. thanks for the depth angelo. when you have to consider bringing back a dinosaur who nobody else even considered in the offseason, because he plays like crap at this point in his career, and you consider him better than any offensive lineman we currently have on our roster it is totally unbelievable. miller? uhhgg, i think i'm going to be sick.