Lucky Luciano

1. hester - he is a BAD receiver, a BAD corner, and he has turned into one of the worst return men in the entire NFL. what he did for 2 years doesn't get a pass for a career player picked that high whether stunted by idiot coaching or not. 2. vasher is/was average at BEST. he was never a good cover corner and benefited from good safeties and great line play. he also has no speed and is a poor tackler. 3. payne is one of the poorest safeties we have had for some time. he is one of the worst tacklers ever, he takes poor angles of attack, and puts himself out of plays continually. his lack of technique shows this coaching staff is completely inept at coaching players or he is a complete cretin. just for curiosities sake.... if you were an owner of another franchise, which player would you give up a first round pick for in a trade? a second? 4. EDIT: tillman is not an above average corner unless he was matched up with specific players. he is way below average with any receiver who has any speed or quickness. that is why he plays so far off the LOS. as far as safety, i have been saying this for years. he would excel. as it is we have done the same thing with peanut we did with tait.

well let's see... SEVEN 1st round picks - quality/average starters - tommy harris, and greg olsen. both picks were no brainers. if we didn't get harris we would have gotten dt vince wolfolk. olsen fell from the middle of the first round to our 31st spot. the unknown, bad or just plain gone: columbo, grossman, haynes, benson, williams (no idea what he is like but put him in the scratching your head catagory because of serious back injury before we drafted him). SEVEN 2nd round picks - quality/average starters - forte (a good pick after picking 2 first day RB picks and two second day RB picks prior to him. sooner or later one has to stick?), tillman (average corner but would have made all-pro safety if anyone in this organization had the slightest clue) the unknown, bad or just plain gone: bazuin, d. manning, hester with reservations (too high of a pick for special teams player who crashed after 2 seasons), bradley, tank NINE 3rd round picks - quality/average starters - briggs the unknown, bad or just plain gone: metcalf, r. williams, berrian, dvoracek, okwo, wolfe, m. harrison, bennett (how bad is he if he can't crack THIS lineup?) so that adds up to 23 first day picks with 3 above average starters in harris, briggs, and forte. not sure about olsen whether he is our #1 or not. SECOND DAY PICKS: NINE 4th round picks - quality/average starters - orton, a. brown, and POSSIBLY beekman who may be average at best. the unknown, bad or just plain gone: steltz, j. williams, vasher, joe, todd johnson, ian scott TWELVE 5th round picks - quality/average starters - NONE the unknown, bad or just plain gone: gray, lafavor, gage, wade, krenzel, c. harriott, currie, m. anderson, corey graham (unknown at this time), payne (really bad at this time), k. davis, bowman EIGHT 6th round picks - quality/average starters - NONE the unknown, bad or just plain gone: runnels, reed, c. harris, odom, forsey, a. peterson (good sp player), elliott, fletcher TEN 7th round picks - quality/average starters - NONE the unknown, bad or just plain gone: b. anderson, a. marshall, r. wilson, a. brant, mcbride (unknown), monk, barton, larocque, c. adams, baldwin so that leaves 2-3 (IFyou consider beekman even average) starters drafted on the 2nd day out of THIRTY NINE picks!! can anyone tell me again why we trade down for more picks on the first day?? THIS is jerry angelo's legacy in chicago

hmmmmmmmmmmm ..... they did? read on. “Though the officials later said they made a mistake in calling back the touchdown, the official score remains 11-10, and even if the NFL changes it, Nevada sports books paid off on the final score from Sunday." - http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3707245 "The referees later said that they made a mistake, and that the touchdown should have counted. Here is the play for those of you who missed it." - http://steelerstoday.com/?p=1271 "Since most bettors put their money on the Steelers to win, sports bookies ended up saving about $32 million that they would have had to pay out if Polamalu's touchdown was allowed. --An estimated 100 million dollars was wagered worldwide on the Pittsburgh/San Diego game, according to RJ Bell of Pregame.com. Approximately 66% of that money was on the Steelers; with only 34% on the Chargers. ------------------------------------- The Controversy: Steelers' TD by Dan Clasgens 17/11/2008 11:12:00 from NowPublic.com "If the touchdown was properly upheld, Steelers bettors would have won about 32 million dollars instead of losing big. This admittedly incorrect call resulted in a 64 million dollar swing in favor of the bookies," said RJ Bell of Pregame.com. - http://www.getsportsinfo.com/post/2008/11/...teelers-TD.aspx ------------------------------------- Pete McEntegart "The officials, of course, overturned the score -- incorrectly, it turns out -- so the game finished in an 11-10 Steelers victory. That also meant that Pittsburgh failed to cover the point spread, which caused an estimated $64 million to change hands in Las Vegas." - http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/the_10_spot/posts/24381 ------------------------------------

does anybody that watched that game doubt for a minute that las vegas made the call? as time expired on a kickoff return the bolts were lateraling the ball and polamalu tipped one backward lateral and ran it in for a td. the results made no difference in the outcome of the game and only effected the actual score and gambling spread. it was so plain, so obvious (even the field ref called it a td) that the only conclusion in my mind is that gambling/vegas influenced or paid off the review judge. never in my entire life have i see a play reviewed by booth or otherwise after time expired which would not influence the final outcome of the game and certainly reverse a call that was without question correct. this brings into account yet again the nfl's credibility and honesty in regards to illegal gambling influence in the premier american sport. you should not only write your displeasure to roger GODell but to your reps in washington to guarantee the sport stays clean. POSSIBLE email: rgoodell@nfl.aol.com OR Roger.Goodell2@nfl.net SAMPLE - here is what i emailed to our fearless commissioner: Dear Commissioner Goodell, Could you please send me a copy of the games that are fixed by gambling interests this week? After watching the Steelers/Chargers game last week I would like to know what games this week are influenced by gambling interests so I too can enjoy betting on NFL football. Thanks,

TD wild bear board participant son.... you put a smile on my face i didn't think it possible after a game like yesterday but you did it. Lucky Luciano Says: you get a permanent extension on whatever bear board you inhabit

here is just my opinion only and i could be wrong... i don't believe this coaching staff is stupid (bad yes but not stupid). i believe they know what the problem is but don't have the skill or experience to change it into something that is drastically different from lovies main experiences as a defensive coordinator. in other words he is a one trick pony. i think one of the mistakes in letting rivera go was you had two philosophies involved and rivera had an alternative mindset that pushed the way we played defense. if it didn't work he changed it or retooled it (or tried to). i also think he had more respect from the players than babs because of this instead of just a yes man to lovies cover 2 like babich with his limited experience. we saw the same ring true when in 85 we lost buddy ryan. then we had the talent but a completely different philosophy on what to do with it. i know, i know, some are going to point out we had great/better stats in 86 than 85 but... we lost the creativity in an attack defense which turned into a read and react defense and we CERTAINLY lost the disipline and accountability when tobin took over the reins as DC. in other words buddy was strong enough to bounce any critical oversight of his philosophy by ditka and i don't think tobin was. maybe in a roundabout similar situation as rivera to lovie. just a thought

one of the biggest problems is that this coaching staff knows it too but doesn't have a solution to fix it. that is truly frightening.

i never said i believe our defensive line would or wouldn't suck if tank were still here as our #2 tackle. i have said that in my opinion tank is better than dusty/harrison and i still believe it emphatically. after that performance by our starting tackle (2 tackles and 1 assist in a TWO HUNDRED and FIVE yard rushing day ALONG with a 227 yard passing attack) i just can't even consider dusty at this point in his career as even a remotely close 2nd to tank. that said, if you believe dusty is the better tackle you are entitled to your opinion and i mine.

i agree, it IS a rollover. but... when your team is in need of good players in at least 4 positions and you decide to "rollover" a major portion of your cap in hopes of WHO KNOWS what you do with the cash next season, that to me is a travesty!! and all that for a 7th round cb draft pick who was WAIVED??? unbelievable. we needed desperately offensive line help in guards AND tackles this season. we needed desperate help at the safety position this season. we needed DESPERATE help for a#1 wide receiver this season (even his second round draft pick at receiver is projected as a #2).

i have seen some really bad games over the years but i think this game ranks up there as maybe the worst performance ever. when there is absolutely no redemption in any aspect of the game it's truly mindboggling!! this is not disapointing it's tragic that any coaching staff could general a game like we witnessed. some ramblings: 1. defensive line... i don't ever in my lifetime remember a whole defensive line being pushed back 4 yds into the endzone in a slant block like i saw yesterday. it was like at practice shoving the sleds. every D lineman in the nfl should see this as a training film on what not to do if you expect a career in the nfl. if anyone wants to make a statement about dusty today and how he compares to tank johnson feel free to jump right in. in 2-3 + plays i saw him personally getting stood up and shoved back 2-5 yards from the LOS. this from our "run stopping" defensive tackle?? if he can't turn his play around by the end of the season it's yet another angelo BUST who will play second or third in rotation if lucky. 2. linebackers... if anyone thinks roach is a special player and our next starting linebacker you better take a very good look at the game film. url? in my opinion if we had a real defense that utilized his talents the way they should be he would be just fine. briggs? the best backer on our team and plays like an all-pro. in fact one of the few players on the entire defense who is playing for crap. 3. safeties... brown was the ONLY player out who actually played with emotion and pride. it's too bad he is nearing the end of his career. and all the love for payne?? this guy is atrocious. his angle of attack is poor to say the least and his tackling technique is some of the worst i have ever seen. if this coaching staff can't teach this guy to actually wrap up and tackle a player instead of trying to wrestle him down above the waist while losing 5 yds every tackle he should have a great career in the arena league. 4. corners... vasher is toast. he can't even do the job playing 8 yds off the LOS. his angles are flat out bad and his tackling is pathetic. vestee jackson's clone. peanut? our best corner is average at that position in MOST circumstances. he would flat out excell as a free safety but our clueless leaders haven't seen it. surprise. 5. offensive line.... if anyone thinks this line is good ten games into the season just shout it out. tait is a dinosaur and got his ass handed to him by kampmon all game long. st. clair barely holds the corner. our guards you ask? where is the push to give our running backs room to move through? how really good is our pass protection? pitiful, just plain pitiful. COACHING... this is one pitiful excuse of a coaching staff with the exception of our special teams coach and he only gets a bye because we decimate his ranks every year and leave him with crap to work with. you know, a coach has to be able to teach and reinforce his players the basics of football. these people have no clue at all how to make players better than when they were drafted. finally, if what i heard said in interviews about how much extra time they spent preparing for this game is true, all i can say is.... WOW!!!!!! ANGELO... i can't believe nobody mentions this. if anyone can say this guy is a genius i'm dumbfounded. this is where most of our problems COME from!!! we have pissed away 7 years of drafts where we could have really strengthened our offense instead of drafting the same crap over and over at the wrong positions. we fired a defensive coordinator who had a top 5 defense in chicago to get what we now have. amazing. yes, i am 100% in the rivera corner now especially after watching the bolts in pit. good job angie. we signed a $10 mil 7th round db draft pick who is waived and in the meantime we watch an all-pro guard in faneca sign someplace else. we don't even have a #1 WR on this entire team AND our safeties are suspect at the start of the season to say the LEAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i am now definately in the get rid of these guys, as a whole, camp. the sooner we see the end of this regime the better off we will 'probably' be.

thanks for the info. i do have to say this concerns me that we basically killed $10 mil this season when we had serious pressing needs on our offense like guard. anybody that was rooting for free agents like faneca or any other high priced offensive talent (tackle, guard, wide receiver) should be collectively groaning. if angie was trying for a rollover of cash for 2009 doesn't that say he already threw in the towel for this season? hmmm i think this can also conclude any argument regarding free agent signing bonus money coming out of mccasky's deep pockets that has been argued in the past.

WAIT A MINUTE.... after rereading this it doesn't make any sense. it states in the article that he was waived by the bucs and THEN says " it's a product of the contract Hamilton signed with the Buccaneers and the Bears inherited when they claimed him". if you are "waived" by a team how does the contract rollover to a team that picks you up? if it DOESN'T then angie just gave him the same type of contract tying up THAT much cap room? for a 7th round draft pick that was waived and who NEVER played a regular season down in his only year in the nfl????? come on cap people, talk me off the ledge.

i have this question for those who follow the cap: in order to obtain hamilton in a trade, don't you HAVE to have that $10 mil in cap room to start with just in case he meets incentives? in other words can you sign a player you traded for whose contract is still viable with the other team without having the cash in cap room your new acquisition may or may not get paid? if so we had $10-12 mil in cap space and used it on this guy? that would be an amazing revelation considering the needs we had this offseason.

i would think on passing plays they use the TE, FB, HB to help block on the outside if the tackle is getting whacked by the end or some creative qb calls. the guards and center are holding the middle. i agree our d-ends are not playing as well as the past and is as you, me and other say it probably has to do with our scheme. same goes for the rest of the d and includes using stunts as a way to break up the rhythm and predictability as we have talked about. but.... end play also has a lot to do with pressure up the middle. if there is a solid pocket to step up into or open passing lanes it makes it much harder for the ends to get to the qb or hurry him. just to note, i don't believe tank was an all-pro player and didn't collapse the pocket every down. but i do think he worked extremely well with t. harris and did have to be accounted for by the offense in a passing situation. he was quick off the snap and had a lot of power which did create a lot more problems for o-linemen than anyone currently starting in chicago. this did have a very positive effect in our pass rush compared to what we have now. the comparison between babs and rivera have to do with scheme and in my opinion not about the quickness and power of tank vs whoever. all of our tackles now and then play the gap type defense and come off the ball to push up the middle basically the same. the difference to me is one pushes the pocket in more consistently than the others flushing out the qb or at the least not leaving room to move up. there is the true comparison i was making. i agree this is NOT the complete reason for our slide to mediocrity. but i feel tank helped out our pass rush up the middle. whether the other aspects of our defense would become better because of it i can't say. i can only assume it would at least in some important aspects.

i am not sure what you mean by the ends getting blocked by guards thus freeing up the dt's. i think you need to rethink that statement. as far as de's not being used correctly? i have no argument with you on that. finally: yet again you quote me on statements i NEVER made. did i ever say if tank was here we would have the best defense in the nfl? simply put, no. what i have stated and will continue to state is that tank had more push up the middle than any of the tackles mentioned. don't just keep telling me it ain't so, LOOK FOR YOURSELF!!! do some research, watch some games tank played in and compare his rush to any #2 tackle on this defense currently playing. EDIT: as far as this dallas nonsense.... it can't be compared because it's not only a different team but a different type of defense with different philosophies, different coaching agenda's, and different players.

it's NOT the difference between babs and rivera that determine how much penetration a tackle gets per individual play. it's different physical and mental aspects each individual player executes in the same situation!!! go back and look at how they compare getting pressure on the qb.

this is laughable. do you KNOW why boone AND scott were usually rotated in? not only to stay fresh but because they were RUN STOPPING widebody tackles used mostly on rushing down situations!!! also are you now going to tell me haynes was a DT? or idonije in 2004-2006???? just to be clear on the stats issue, i used them as reference to support not only my opinion but my observations of actually WATCHING these tackles play. are you going to tell me you didn't see any/little difference in the push up the middle tank got compared to boone, scott and now dusty?? really? i will say it yet AGAIN for the final time... i NEVER stated tank is/was a stud. i SAID he is a good #2 tackle and is/was better than any tackle we currently have on this roster as our #2 rushing the passer in a gap type defense lovie smith runs in chicago!!! i don't give two $&!($ what he does or doesn't do in dallas now or forever!!! in our type of defense tank was better than ANYONE you have mentioned in consistently creating a push into the pocket. when scott/boone (and now dusty/harrison) came in they were basically plugging up the line rather than attacking the qb because they got virtually no consistent push up the middle!! if you don't believe it go back and LOOK at the games and compare the players. today our defense forms a picketline around our opponents qb's in which they can stand there all day. if our de's actually DO pressure them they simply step up into the pocket because NOBODY is there to stop them or flush them out. so if it's not the difference in the quality of pass rushing tackles what is it?

what ever... this is EXACTLY what you said - "I simply don't believe the dropoff (if any) between Tank and our current DTs is really much." who you crappin? then why are YOU? you are saying there is little difference in our pass rush by dusty/harrison? all i can say is... wow. where are you getting this stuff? show me ANYWHERE i EVER said we don't/didn't utilize a rotation.

as i have stated repeatedly tank is a good #2 tackle who excelled in the gap type of defense we run in chicago because of his strength, speed and quickness. that is why angelo drafted him! how his talent relates to another type of defensive scheme i can't say. but believe me or not when i tell you certain players can excel in one type of defense and can be mediocre in another. if you don't believe that i am not going to argue the point with you.

first, i am not defending babich in any way. i completely believe rivera had a more aggressive and creative type of defense whether he ran more stunts or not. i think he certainly ran more man coverages and was more creative in his blitz packages. but... it also can be said that of late babs has run more line stunts than he has in the past and we are still seeing the same results. so how does that relate to your assumption it is all on our dc as to how much pressure our defensive tackles put on a qb? second, in regards to our db's playing off the line. this has virtually nothing to do with how much penetration our tackles are getting. also, i am not seeing what you say you are observing. our corners have been playing off the LOS for years and certainly post mcquarters. it WAS tried putting peanut AND vasher up in bump and run until they got burned so bad and so consistently they moved them back off the line. do i think they are playing out of position by giving that much cushion? absolutely. it has and will continue to kill us ESPECIALLY since we get no pressure on the qb.

did you take into consideration how many games tank was suspended or didn't play in for that season? let's look at this in perspective... over 3 years dusties sacks = 0. over 3 years tanks = 9 there is no way you can compare what isn't there. the fact is tank got push up the middle, tank DID sack the qb AND stop the run. the last i heard getting to the qb is the MAIN problem with our defense!!! the statistics >>>CLEARLY you can spin this however you want but the facts don't lie. dusty DOES NOT push the pocket backwards and tank DID and the sack stats prove it. a coincidence that our defense is flat out bad? i think not.

first of all he is/was behind another starting tackle in dallas if i am not mistaken. second and most important.... this is NOT the same type of defense we run in chicago. there is NO comparison between what they run and a cover 2.

first, i never said tank was "elite". i said he was a good #2 tackle and better than what we have and in my opinion it is a large PART of the reason we get no push up the middle. and who disagreed with you or nfo? now, are you saying rivera stunted more than babs and that's the reason why we get no push up the middle anymore? if so show me the game stats that there was more stunting by rivera and that has caused a drop off of pressure from our tackles on the qb.

hold that phone a little tighter, YOU'RE the one who said there was not much drop off from dusty to tank! does the unreliability of dusty staying healthy skew the actual fact that production from dusty doesn't equal that of tank over a 3 year period? so then what you are saying is that it takes TWO of our tackles to equal one tank? one to stop the run and one to rush the passer? if harrison is so great why isn't HE starting? my bad on missing the two. i am doing both. first: it was stupid letting him go (i DON'T want to start that type of thread again so take it for what it's worth) second: if it takes TWO players to equal one, that's not a loss to you?? that's like saying that mark anderson and alex brown equals richard dent.

huh?? that makes NO sense at all. don't you think the production of key players are reflected by the guys in the trenches next to them?? you say our de's were not better because of tank. i contend that one of the major problems of our de's is they are NOT getting any help by our tackles push up the middle!!! the qb's are NOT getting flushed out of the pocket so our de's can GET their hands on them. as it stands qb's have a solid ring of offensive bodies forming a pocket to step up INTO!! look up the sack stats since tank left. a. brown: 2004 - 6 sacks 2005 - 6 sacks 2006 - 7 sacks 2007 (no tank) 4.5 sacks 2008 9no tank) 3 sacks after 1/2 season walley: 2004 - 5 sacks 2005 - 10 sacks 2006 (injury year?) 6.5 sacks 2007 - (no tank) 9 sacks 2008 - (no tank) 1.5 sacks anderson: 2006 - 12 sacks 2007 - (no tank) 5 sacks 2008 - (no tank) 0 sacks could it be that tank and tommie together got enough penetration to, at the least, harass the qb? hmmm sorry, but this has nothing to do with the push your tackles get in the center of the line. you are entitled to your opinion as am i. but i think there would be a difference with a tackle that has that initial quicknes/burst of speed along with the power to push your guards and tackles back into the pocket. with dusty we just haven't seen it.