jason

You're right...for some reason (busy at work) I was thinking that we, as a board, steered away from Long with the collective first rounder. I like OL, but even I wouldn't have gone OG, OG in the first two rounds. This was simply a misunderstanding.

As far as I'm concerned, you can end it right there. Warford was a 2nd round, at worst, talent. He was a mega-steal in the early part of the third. But others have a hard-on (for some reason) for a backup TE. Spence would have been the next guy on the list.

It's like politics, minds won't be changed. Right now, however, marijuana is illegal. You and Webb don't like it? Go through legal channels to fight it. Until then, you shouldn't do it, particularly if you have a job where your physical and mental preparedness is directly related to the health of another person, not to mention the potential millions (billions?) your organization stands to gain should you perform well enough to actually help the team win a Super Bowl.

I'm not skeptical because I'm an arm-chair analyst. I'm skeptical because I'm a Bears fan. Until proven otherwise, skepticism should be expected. Regarding Lovie and the pads...I believe that may very well be a true statement.

They said the same thing about Tice, and he was horrible.

As I've stated before, we should be more critical with an unproven staff. Not more optimistic. Trust is earned. Whether or not a coach gives a player a chance on ability or not is sort of a red herring, because ultimately it still comes down to performance. Love and staff may have, ignorantly, believed Webb was a good player. Maybe their OL evaluation skills were just horrible? Given the status of the OL over the last 5-6 years that could be entirely possible. Did they think they were doing what was best for the team to win? Of course. Did it result in the necessary wins? Well, neither are with Chicago. I don't think any coach actively submarines their own team, but that doesn't make them oracles of all football decisions. They can F up too...we should know, we saw Lovie do plenty of it.

Let me put it another way...If the staff moves Carimi to OG, he obviously won't get the reps needed to fully compete at OT. No Mike Tice stuff at all, just a matter of position on a football field. And if Webb "wins" the RT battle, I still don't think he gives the Bears the best chance to win.

That would be Monday Night Futbol.

That's why I said I'm "hoping"...it's a hope. Carimi will probably be shoved inside to OG and waste away while Webb is given yet another chance to suck.

You're likely right, because what'll happen is the same thing as before. Carimi will likely be played inside at OG, and Webb will be handed the RT job with little to no actual competition.

It's not about Webb vs. Carimi in this thread. It's about you love of Webb, and your defense of absolutely everything he does. This dude could start a church bus on fire and you'd say something about the amount of gas a bus holds making it more likely to spontaneously combust. Any player who jeopardizes a multi-million payday for marijuana is stupid to some extent. If you are in athletics and take your career seriously, you don't do it. Period. The simple fact is, it can always be avoided. Today's society blah blah blah. It's illegal; you are under no obligation to do it. If you like to do it, tough shit. Stop being selfish and set aside your personal desires for the betterment of the team. For the amount of money he is being paid - this goes for all players - the level of devotion to his craft should be insane. Instead he wastes potential talent, and certainly opportunity, because he wants to get high. Great decision. From this report alone, it appears that his performance has suffered as a result of usage, and he recognizes that. Good for him for trying to get better, but just think how much he has completely screwed the team since he's been in Chicago. Imagine what he would have done if he wasn't using. If I were a teammate I would be pissed at him. BTW - The final line in my last comment was supposed to be a subtle jab, a joke. That's why I used the emoticon. It was an attempt to defuse the situation more than fuel it.

Thank you. End of discussion. Using the first round pick to select a #2 TE would have been stupid. Same goes for what amounts to a backup defensive back. Other needs are/were greater. Aside from the limited picks, there is a reason the Bears didn't draft either position, and did draft multiple players on the OL and at LB.

I'm hoping to hear one thing, and one thing only: Carimi looks good, will probably start over Webb at RT

Wrong. Sounds like an excuse. You can ALWAYS avoid having "the stuff" on you. I've done it every single day of my life. You always have a choice. And that's where you seem to be ignoring common logic because you obviously agree with Webb's actions, and obviously want to have a sweet, manly embrace with him.

Agreed. A 2nd TE or a slot WR in this offense is nothing but a luxury. Same goes for nickle DB. There is a reason they are a nickle and not a starter.

That is not the point at all. This has been explicitly stated on more than one occasion. It's a hindsight 50/50 draft, with us saying we could have picked better players at the spots available given that we aren't included in all the inside knowledge that would have given us a better idea of where players would actually fall. Without that knowledge, we obviously can't forecast future rounds. But since we'll never get that knowledge, we have to pretend that we did/would have, and make picks accordingly.

I didn't read it that way. That's a quote straight from the article. They mention the trades, but those three players were their choices should they stick at their original 22.

That's almost exactly as I looked at it. Long/Bostic - Need and BPA, but not purely either Ogletree/Warford - Need and BPA, but not purely either Floyd/Warford - BPA over need Trufant/Warford - I would have hated this Given that Green could be had in the 4th, and some had him rated higher than Bostic, the Floyd/Warford changeup seems acceptable.

As a member of the TalkBears groups redoing this draft, I vote Floyd only because Warford is available at #2 and it sets the rest of the draft up pretty well (as stated previously). 1. Floyd, DT, UF 2. Warford, OG, UK 4. Green, LB, RUT 5. Swope, WR, A&M 6. Washington, LB, UGA 7. Fragel, OT, OSU But I'm very pleased with the Long selection.

Regarding the Rams pick at 22... "The Rams sat at 22. They wanted Ogletree and were reasonably confident he'd be there. But they'd been talking with Houston at 27 and Atlanta at 30 about moving down to recoup some of what they'd give up to acquire Austin. Their fallback guy was UCLA defensive end Datone Jones, but if he and Ogletree were gone, they'd take Kentucky guard Larry Warford." If there is discussion about Warford at 22, even though it's later stated in the article that they'd be slightly disappointed about all their other guys being taken earlier, then Long at 20 doesn't seem too out of this world.

The problem is, many acknowledged that point, but still said that Webb was worse (hence your mockery of my tagline). You tried to prove otherwise with the flawed statistics. You equated the two players before Bushrod even signed. You pointed to stats as validation of your beliefs and mentioned them alongside Emery as if it were his single source of info. That all blew up when Emery decided to sign Bushrod, which displaced Webb, then drafted a player with the intention of giving more challenge to Webb. All of this points to the facts that: Emery doesn't like Webb as much as you thought he might, and that he believes Bushrod is far superior to Webb (which everyone believes other than you, Lovie, Tice, and Webb's family).

I firmly believe a player's destiny is shaped by his past. This is especially true for professional athletes because they've been coddled nearly their entire lives for being the BMOC. I suspect it's probably even more true for offensive linemen, many of who were fat as children and are more prone to give up when faced with serious adversity. (I know this is a vast over-generalization, but you don't see many ripped offensive linemen) When guys like Williams get pushed around a bit, don't excel like he has his entire life, get dumped on by a coach who apparently couldn't develop, evaluate, or coach offensive line talent if his life depended on it, and suddenly their motor is not the same, their production is not the same, they are not the same.

Just to further disprove that stupid Football Outsiders link, here's proof that continuity has no bearing on offensive success, and the change of continuity from year to year does not necessarily have a positive correlation with the change in an offenses productivity from year to year. Year Team Cont. Score Off. Rank Cont.Score 08 Off. Rank Cont.Change Off.Rank Change 2009 NYJ 48 17 48 9 0 -8 2009 TB 40 20 35 19 5 -1 2009 ARI 39 11 48 4 -9 -7 2009 DAL 39 14 31 18 8 4 2009 CAR 38 21 25 7 13 -14 2009 PIT 37 12 39 20 -2 8 2009 MIA 35 15 39 21 -4 6 2009 TEN 35 16 45 14 -10 -2 2009 ATL 34 13 38 10 -4 -3 2009 JAC 34 24 32 24 2 0 2009 NO 34 1 28 1 6 0 2009 CHI 33 19 48 15 -15 -4 2009 SD 33 4 33 2 0 -2 2009 HOU 32 10 48 17 -16 7 2009 MIN 32 2 32 12 0 10 2009 NYG 32 8 48 3 -16 -5 2009 PHI 31 5 30 6 1 1 2009 SF 31 18 29 22 2 4 2009 SEA 30 25 26 25 4 0 2009 BAL 29 9 27 11 2 2 2009 GB 29 3 30 5 -1 2 2009 NE 29 6 35 8 -6 2 2009 CLE 28 29 30 31 -2 2 2009 CIN 27 22 37 32 -10 10 2009 KC 27 23 29 26 -2 3 2009 STL 27 32 25 30 2 -2 2009 DEN 26 20 48 16 -22 -4 2009 IND 26 7 29 13 -3 6 2009 DET 25 27 21 27 4 0 2009 OAK 25 31 29 29 -4 -2 2009 WAS 23 26 29 28 -6 2 2009 BUF 21 28 30 23 -9 -5 NEXT!

I didn't say you were stupid, just that you were being stupid on this one. And it's completely true. Why you hold on to this flawed concept of continuity over talent is beyond me, because it's simply wrong. In every sport, on every level, if you give me a team of more talented guys - and I'm not talked about a marginal difference - the guys who have better continuity will lose. The Lakers example is a horrible one because it has almost zero to do with continuity, and almost everything to do with Kobe being a ball hog, two elite big men who didn't get the ball enough, and a head coach with an ill-fitting offensive system and a non-existent defensive system. Talent is important. Continuity is important. But if you have to sacrifice one, talent is not the one to sacrifice. An OL full of 7th round guys who have several years of continuity is simply not going to do as well as an OL full of non-bust 1st-3rd round talent. Period. Ignore it all you want, but you're always going to be wrong. Why is this so difficult for your to comprehend? You do realize the NFL teams attempt to make draft picks in sequential order because they figure the earlier rounds have better players don't you? Nobody covets all 32 picks in the 7th round. If continuity were so much more important than talent, then WHY DOES ANY TEAM CHANGE OLINEMEN? Riddle me that. Also, I think you should recheck the football outsiders continuity score link you posted. The Bears had a 33 according to their chart (take 48, subtract 2 for extra starters, then 3 for line changes, then [16-6] for longest stretch). That puts them 12th in continuity, and they sucked. Don't like that, go back to the year before when the Bears were PERFECT in continuity score according to football outsiders. And guess what? The offense sucked again! If you're going to provide a link to something, at least be sure you comprehend it and it supports your side of a debate. Side issues: -TO would have helped the team on the field. The Bears needed another reliable WR. Particularly when Alshon went down. I can't prove it, but you can't disprove it either. Teams stayed away from him more for his antics and lack of longevity than anything else. -Williams got screwed in Chicago nearly the entire time he was on the team. The fact that Webb is being kicked around like a tin can kind of proves that he shouldn't have been starting (something nearly everyone has been saying for a while). If Williams got half the chance that Webb got to start at a single position he might have actually lived up to his lofty first round potential.

Like all rugby fanatics, and likely Teddy Bridgewater directly after that Bostic hit, you are just not seeing clearly. You continue to ignore what others post and reply with rugby highlight videos. The two are not the same. The biggest hits in the NFL are bigger than the biggest hits in rugby, and they are certainly more frequent.