jason

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That was the intent. I'm with you. Floyd seems like a stud pick in terms of BPA, and starting out with Floyd then Warford would appear to be a better start than Long then Bostic.

THAT IS THE POINT. It is supposed to be a hindsight 20/20 draft. We don't have the inside knowledge to know when someone might get drafted, but they do. Therefore, the only way this makes sense is if we pretend we knew. As a result, we can predict Warford would be there in the second, and we could draft BPA in the first if a highly rated player inexplicably fell.

In other news, professional sports teams piss on fans and put out reports of rain. This is nothing new. What are they supposed to say? The Chicago Bears officially report that they think Jamarcus Webb will suck, just like the rest of the time he's been in a Chicago Bears uniform. They hope to use him as a swing tackle at best, and hope he doesn't have a drug relapse that costs them Jay Cutler for the year.

You're right...for some reason (busy at work) I was thinking that we, as a board, steered away from Long with the collective first rounder. I like OL, but even I wouldn't have gone OG, OG in the first two rounds. This was simply a misunderstanding.

As far as I'm concerned, you can end it right there. Warford was a 2nd round, at worst, talent. He was a mega-steal in the early part of the third. But others have a hard-on (for some reason) for a backup TE. Spence would have been the next guy on the list.

It's like politics, minds won't be changed. Right now, however, marijuana is illegal. You and Webb don't like it? Go through legal channels to fight it. Until then, you shouldn't do it, particularly if you have a job where your physical and mental preparedness is directly related to the health of another person, not to mention the potential millions (billions?) your organization stands to gain should you perform well enough to actually help the team win a Super Bowl.

I'm not skeptical because I'm an arm-chair analyst. I'm skeptical because I'm a Bears fan. Until proven otherwise, skepticism should be expected. Regarding Lovie and the pads...I believe that may very well be a true statement.

They said the same thing about Tice, and he was horrible.

As I've stated before, we should be more critical with an unproven staff. Not more optimistic. Trust is earned. Whether or not a coach gives a player a chance on ability or not is sort of a red herring, because ultimately it still comes down to performance. Love and staff may have, ignorantly, believed Webb was a good player. Maybe their OL evaluation skills were just horrible? Given the status of the OL over the last 5-6 years that could be entirely possible. Did they think they were doing what was best for the team to win? Of course. Did it result in the necessary wins? Well, neither are with Chicago. I don't think any coach actively submarines their own team, but that doesn't make them oracles of all football decisions. They can F up too...we should know, we saw Lovie do plenty of it.

Let me put it another way...If the staff moves Carimi to OG, he obviously won't get the reps needed to fully compete at OT. No Mike Tice stuff at all, just a matter of position on a football field. And if Webb "wins" the RT battle, I still don't think he gives the Bears the best chance to win.

That would be Monday Night Futbol.

That's why I said I'm "hoping"...it's a hope. Carimi will probably be shoved inside to OG and waste away while Webb is given yet another chance to suck.

You're likely right, because what'll happen is the same thing as before. Carimi will likely be played inside at OG, and Webb will be handed the RT job with little to no actual competition.

It's not about Webb vs. Carimi in this thread. It's about you love of Webb, and your defense of absolutely everything he does. This dude could start a church bus on fire and you'd say something about the amount of gas a bus holds making it more likely to spontaneously combust. Any player who jeopardizes a multi-million payday for marijuana is stupid to some extent. If you are in athletics and take your career seriously, you don't do it. Period. The simple fact is, it can always be avoided. Today's society blah blah blah. It's illegal; you are under no obligation to do it. If you like to do it, tough shit. Stop being selfish and set aside your personal desires for the betterment of the team. For the amount of money he is being paid - this goes for all players - the level of devotion to his craft should be insane. Instead he wastes potential talent, and certainly opportunity, because he wants to get high. Great decision. From this report alone, it appears that his performance has suffered as a result of usage, and he recognizes that. Good for him for trying to get better, but just think how much he has completely screwed the team since he's been in Chicago. Imagine what he would have done if he wasn't using. If I were a teammate I would be pissed at him. BTW - The final line in my last comment was supposed to be a subtle jab, a joke. That's why I used the emoticon. It was an attempt to defuse the situation more than fuel it.

Thank you. End of discussion. Using the first round pick to select a #2 TE would have been stupid. Same goes for what amounts to a backup defensive back. Other needs are/were greater. Aside from the limited picks, there is a reason the Bears didn't draft either position, and did draft multiple players on the OL and at LB.

I'm hoping to hear one thing, and one thing only: Carimi looks good, will probably start over Webb at RT

Wrong. Sounds like an excuse. You can ALWAYS avoid having "the stuff" on you. I've done it every single day of my life. You always have a choice. And that's where you seem to be ignoring common logic because you obviously agree with Webb's actions, and obviously want to have a sweet, manly embrace with him.

Agreed. A 2nd TE or a slot WR in this offense is nothing but a luxury. Same goes for nickle DB. There is a reason they are a nickle and not a starter.

That is not the point at all. This has been explicitly stated on more than one occasion. It's a hindsight 50/50 draft, with us saying we could have picked better players at the spots available given that we aren't included in all the inside knowledge that would have given us a better idea of where players would actually fall. Without that knowledge, we obviously can't forecast future rounds. But since we'll never get that knowledge, we have to pretend that we did/would have, and make picks accordingly.

I didn't read it that way. That's a quote straight from the article. They mention the trades, but those three players were their choices should they stick at their original 22.

That's almost exactly as I looked at it. Long/Bostic - Need and BPA, but not purely either Ogletree/Warford - Need and BPA, but not purely either Floyd/Warford - BPA over need Trufant/Warford - I would have hated this Given that Green could be had in the 4th, and some had him rated higher than Bostic, the Floyd/Warford changeup seems acceptable.

As a member of the TalkBears groups redoing this draft, I vote Floyd only because Warford is available at #2 and it sets the rest of the draft up pretty well (as stated previously). 1. Floyd, DT, UF 2. Warford, OG, UK 4. Green, LB, RUT 5. Swope, WR, A&M 6. Washington, LB, UGA 7. Fragel, OT, OSU But I'm very pleased with the Long selection.

Regarding the Rams pick at 22... "The Rams sat at 22. They wanted Ogletree and were reasonably confident he'd be there. But they'd been talking with Houston at 27 and Atlanta at 30 about moving down to recoup some of what they'd give up to acquire Austin. Their fallback guy was UCLA defensive end Datone Jones, but if he and Ogletree were gone, they'd take Kentucky guard Larry Warford." If there is discussion about Warford at 22, even though it's later stated in the article that they'd be slightly disappointed about all their other guys being taken earlier, then Long at 20 doesn't seem too out of this world.

The problem is, many acknowledged that point, but still said that Webb was worse (hence your mockery of my tagline). You tried to prove otherwise with the flawed statistics. You equated the two players before Bushrod even signed. You pointed to stats as validation of your beliefs and mentioned them alongside Emery as if it were his single source of info. That all blew up when Emery decided to sign Bushrod, which displaced Webb, then drafted a player with the intention of giving more challenge to Webb. All of this points to the facts that: Emery doesn't like Webb as much as you thought he might, and that he believes Bushrod is far superior to Webb (which everyone believes other than you, Lovie, Tice, and Webb's family).