Stinger226
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Posts posted by Stinger226
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read this somewhere and gives some info on Fangio and how it fits.
Call it what you will but Fangio's defense is not a straightforward vanilla 3-4. His NT still plays a one gap shade position which actually does fit a guy like Stephen Paea and they can also use Ratliff in that.e role. Fangio plays his other DT as a 3 tech similar to a one gap 4-3 so Sutton is not a waste and Paea and Ratliff can also play that position. If Houston recovers from his injury and starts playing heads up ball again if he can add back 10-15 lbs he can play the RDE spot Justin Smith plays in SF which is where Houston played in Oakland and possibly rotate with Jared Allen there provided Allen can handle that assignment. If not they may play him as a stand up DE and Ego Ferguson may play at that DE spot or as a two tech NT.
Get Willie Young back as a stand up DE/OLB like Aldon Smith and add another OLB/DE from the draft like Shane Ray or from FA or maybe guys like Washington or Bass step up and you have the makings of a DL that can show both 4-3 and 3-4 looks. The bigger need is to find a true MLB and add at least one more 3-4 type ILB. I'm still thinking the best place for Shea McClellin is an always has been at MLB or ILB in a 3-4. He has great speed and range and by blitzing him through the A gaps he becomes a more affective pass rusher than he ever been from the edge where often gets out of position and fails to seal the edge or loses contain. The young guy Christian Jones may be do better on the edge or possibly in the middle as a 3-4 ILB. Bostic is a failure as a 4-3 MLB but may be able to handle it in a 3-4 with Jones playing OLB on the weak side.
The defense needs to fill some gaps but overall there should be enough talent there to mold a hybrid defense out of that's far less predictable and can attack the way Pace, Fox and Fangio would like to see it done. It's all about getting players in the right positions and getting them playing downhill again. That didn't happen with Tucker. They seemed confused, chaotic, and tentative and played on their heels not on their toes. They weren't the attackers they were the defenders and it was like a perpetual prevent defense.
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Marshall isnt on the list because theres little to no chance he becomes a FA. I got ahead of myself in my desire for him awhile back. Broncos can give him a minimum job and he has to resign.
#1 was Rolando McClain. Then Brandon Spikes, Geno Hayes, and Jason Trusnik were 3,4, and 5 in that order.
I'm not sure if PFF takes range into account though, I think this just tells us that Briggs was good at making plays when it was in his area.
Like DBDB said I think as an ILB, a lot of his range issues get covered up because he won't have to cover as much ground.
Another thing I read was in a 3-4 one of the ILBs jobs is to essentially take on whatever OL goes to the 2nd level to keep the other ILB clean. At the right price, I think Briggs would do a pretty good job with this.
With any and every LB, unless they come from San Fran there will be uncertainty.
I think there's enough potential on thus team right now with guys like Bostic Jones, Sharpton, Dede apparently, SMC in a 3-4, Bass and Washington converting, that if they all battled it out I tthink the coaches would put a good group of 4 guys out there.
You can certainly add to that, and I'm sure they will, but I dont see us needing 3 new ones and maybe not even 2.
Hell I'd be fine with bringing back Briggs and going with Young-Briggs-Jones/Bostic/Rev-SMC/Washington/Bass but that's me. A guy like Ray in the first or Kikaha in the 2nd certainly does make more since though, esp when you consider Young might not be ready.
I'm kinda excited to see if Washington can carve out a role. Rememberthis dude is a freak athlete, and I wouldnt be shocked one bit if he emerges under a new legit coaching staff.
Briggs should never be in the thought process, its time to go young and look to the future, he doesnt bring leadership, and his skills have eroded. time to move on. With our LBs all we have is ? marks, we have to draft a rush LB, the coaching staff will decide to do that. Hopefully the new coaches find the valve in some of remaining LBs, but it is still to be shown of the field.
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we can argue in circles about this the entire offseason and still end up in the same place. We can discuss the numbers as much as we want. But at the end of the day it's up to Fox and Pace to decide if they think we can win with Jay, if we should cut him and when to do so, or seek trade offers. My guess is they are looking at all the possibilities. And will decide which one is the best for the team now and future.
In a lot of ways Jay is what he is. I don't think there's much growth potential for a 32 year old 10 year vet. His issues, and limitations are known and at this point winning with him involves an offensive scheme that plays to his strengths rather than asking him to be what he isn't. I think Trestman's system asked him to be what he isn't. How many of us watched the offense the last two years and wondered why we don't do more roll outs, bootlegs, etc to use his mobility. An offense that asks Jay to be a pure pocket passer or statue does not play to his strengths but rather exposes his weakness. A pass happy offense doesn't help either. In the past I think we've coaches that were either stuck on their system or didn't have a clue how to organize an NFL system and tried to fit the players to their scheme whether they fit or not and some players were of the square peg/round hole ilk. I feel for the first time in a long long time we have a real professional NFL staff here. So I trust their Judgement. I also feel that this staff will tailer their schemes to what we have on the roster and who we draft or bring in during FA. The ultimate goal is to build for the long term and if we happen to win now or turn things around quickly while doing so great, but I don't see us mortgaging the future to win now. I'm content to sit back and let Fox, Pace, and Gase decide Jay's future. I do feel in the right setting/offense we can win with Jay by playing to his strengths rather than ask him to be something he's not.
totally agree, the only opinions that count are our new leaders, trust in them until they prove to not be deserving of their trust. looking good so far
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The money hole gets bigger, which is my whole point. You'll likely see the continue through 2016 and 2017 if it's not plugged in 2015.
I don't see any coach being able "turn him around" in his 10th year at age 32.
Culter is what he is, he wont be turned around, what coaches will do is minimize his weaknesses. Unless Pace pulls a rabbit out of his hat, there will unfortunately not be a better choice at QB. Draft is very average, the top 2 have so many questions not worth the high pick. FA totally sucks. It will take 3 years to be a contender, in the meantime they will systematically add pieces. Since there is no qb options Culter will give life to being our qb. Your money loss doesnt include paying someone to replace him. So they will bite the bullet this year, assess our options next year and build a winner. It is not a system problem to work out. It doesnt matter what we think, they are smarter than us and will make the proper call on everything. If they screw it up, then the circle continues, but I am hopeful they got it right this time.
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You can't go by those sites. Cutler's type of contract is confusing when trying to use their figures, as it doesn't accurately account for Cutler's guarantees that get locked in March of the year prior. Here's basically a break down of Cutler's contract the next 3 years.
Emery converted $5 of Cutler's money into a bonus. That effectively spread that $5 million over 5 years. Every year cap hit is a million higher than his salary. If anytime he is cut, what is left of that money becomes dead money.
Cutler's salary this year will be $15.5 million, his cap hit will be $16.5 million during the year, but it will cost $19.5 million against the cap if he is cut. However, the Bears have it written into his contract that if he is cut, his salary with a new team will be deducted from the Bears cap hit. So his salary with his new team will help kick that number down a few million.
On March 13th of this year, 10 million of Cutler's 2016 contract becomes guaranteed. Their site doesn't account for that 10 million guaranteed. There will still be 3 million in dead money in 2016, so if he is cut after this year the Bears will have 13 million in dead money from his contract. His cap number will be $17 million that year, $16 million in base money plus $1 million of the dead money. The Bears will effectively save $4 million vs his cap number, but you will still have $13 million tied up in dead money you can't spend in 2016 if he is kept this year but cut after.
In 2016, there is $6 million that gets guaranteed in for 2017. There will also be 2 million left in dead money. $8 million in dead cap space will be there in 2017 if he is kept the next 2 years.
so where do you get your information? I doubt if you walk in to the Bears office and they show you a contract.
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You can't go by those sites. Cutler's type of contract is confusing when trying to use their figures, as it doesn't accurately account for Cutler's guarantees that get locked in March of the year prior. Here's basically a break down of Cutler's contract the next 3 years.
Emery converted $5 of Cutler's money into a bonus. That effectively spread that $5 million over 5 years. Every year cap hit is a million higher than his salary. If anytime he is cut, what is left of that money becomes dead money.
Cutler's salary this year will be $15.5 million, his cap hit will be $16.5 million during the year, but it will cost $19.5 million against the cap if he is cut. However, the Bears have it written into his contract that if he is cut, his salary with a new team will be deducted from the Bears cap hit. So his salary with his new team will help kick that number down a few million.
On March 13th of this year, 10 million of Cutler's 2016 contract becomes guaranteed. Their site doesn't account for that 10 million guaranteed. There will still be 3 million in dead money in 2016, so if he is cut after this year the Bears will have 13 million in dead money from his contract. His cap number will be $17 million that year, $16 million in base money plus $1 million of the dead money. The Bears will effectively save $4 million vs his cap number, but you will still have $13 million tied up in dead money you can't spend in 2016 if he is kept this year but cut after.
In 2016, there is $6 million that gets guaranteed in for 2017. There will also be 2 million left in dead money. $8 million in dead cap space will be there in 2017 if he is kept the next 2 years.
you seem to have put a lot of effort into this, but to create a situation that costs us nothing this year seems a bit unrealistic.
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When Cutler's status this year is debated, it's often the bird in the hand argument that is brought up. Who are you going to get to replace him? The answer is not a simple answer. There are no exceptional older veterans floating around this year. The draft is always a big question mark no matter how great the prospect. A large majority want to see defense, defense, defense, and maybe some O-Line in the draft. That's completely understandable, as this team has holes. But I think of Cutler as addition by subtraction.
Cutting Cutler brings a hefty price tag this year, a $19.5 million dollar price tag to be exact. That is a scary number when you see it. So let's keep him around right, a bird in the handt? I say no, why throw good money after bad?
If Cutler is cut and signs with a new team, the Bears recoup the money he makes this year from the new team. Now, I'm not saying Cutler will make $10
million this year with another team. I think it's more likely he will sign a contract similar to Jared Allen's contract. Allen's first year he was only paid $3 million, but will make $12.5 million the next guaranteed. That would give the team he signs with cap space this year, while letting Cutler have a decent contract in 2016.
If this happens, it will cost the Bears $0 more to cut him this year than if they kept him. The team will have that $16.5 to use in free agency the next year to fill all those needs we mentioned earlier, and to use to resign their own guys. That sounds pretty darn nice to me.
But let's say the Bears do keep him this year, what will the cost be to keep him or to cut him? In 2016 Cutler's cap number will be $17 million if he stays. However, if you decide to cut him then, it will cost $13 million. So that means we keep Cutler for 2 years, and than can move on right? Not so fast. There will be $8 million in cap space if he is cut after 2 years. So basically, if Cutler is back this year, he will be back for 3 years.
The question isn't who can replace Cutler this year, but in the next three. My answer is, I don't know, but that's a lot of time. I also didn't know that the Super Bowl QB's would have the careers they have. I didn't know that Drew Brees would recover from a career threatening injury to become one of the best in the business. I'm sure the customer in aisle 3 eighteen years ago never thought Kurt Warner would joining the hall of fame this year.
We all agree this team needs great drafts. Reasonably, the holes can't be filled in one or two drafts. The Bears will need to search for young free agents with potential like Will Young. The Bears also need to retain players like Alshon Jeffery and Kyle Long fat contracts. Why keep the bird that annually craps in your hand? Why throw good money spent after bad? Take the hit this year, to free up the money the next 2. Financially, it makes more sense
As far as cutting Cutler, I think his guaranteed money is his no matter what he does. So anyway you look at it, it costs 16.5 against the cap.
If the powers that be perceive him to be the best choice we have, he will be our QB and they will coach around his weaknesses.
here is his contract details:
Contract Details
Total Value: $126,700,000 (avg. $18,100,000/year; $38,000,000 fully guaranteed)
7th highest of 105 QB contracts
Year Base Salary (Guaranteed) Bonuses Cap
Number
Dead Money & Cap Savings
Prorated Roster Workout Other
2012 $7,700,000 $1,400,000 $0 $500,000 $0 $9,600,000
2013 $8,470,000 $1,400,000 $0 $500,000 $0 $10,370,000
2014 $17,500,000 $22,500,000 $1,000,000 $0 $0 $0 $18,500,000
2015 $15,500,000 $15,500,000 $1,000,000 $0 $0 $0 $16,500,000 $19,500,000 ($3,000,000)
2016 $16,000,000 $1,000,000 $0 $0 $0 $17,000,000 $3,000,000 $14,000,000
2017 $12,500,000 $1,000,000 $2,500,000 $0 $0 $16,000,000 $2,000,000 $14,000,000
2018 $13,500,000 $1,000,000 $2,500,000 $0 $0 $17,000,000 $1,000,000 $16,000,000
2019 $17,500,000 $0 $2,500,000 $0 $0 $20,000,000 $0 $20,000,000
2020 $19,200,000 $0 $2,500,000 $0 $0 $21,700,000 $0 $21,700,000
Those details are off of Over the cap website.
Its looks confusing being transfered but is clear if you look on the page.
If we cut him our dead money this year is 19.5 and save 3
If we cut him next year our dead money is 3. and we save 14, so I think your information is wrong.
I think the sooner he goes the sooner we can start fresh but if we have to pay him and no other good choices, it would be dump to not keep him around.
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Agreed on most counts. I'm really convinced that Briggs has nothing left to offer the team. As much as I disliked the loss of Urlacher at a similar point in his career, I'm totally good with Briggs going away.
With Peanut, you're not only getting a guy who still plays well at the position, but other great qualities. Hell, he's about the only guy that was able to consistently stone Megatron. At Safety who knows how good he could be? Add in the fact that he has been genuine with the team as a person AND more importantly a leader, those attributes are priceless. Especially with such a young team on the defensive side going into a transition like they will be. Tillman is nearly a 'must resign' in my book.
Tillman is a good man, but would never be the type of CB in a 3-4. He was a perfect cover 2 type. As a safety he may find a spot, but think only way he comes back is if we cant fill that spot because of all the needs we have.
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Right now from what I've seen in highlights it's between Shelton and Shane Ray. Edge pressure is harder to get versus finding a guy who can command a double team at NT so I'm taking Ray. I was searching the web for some more feedback on Ray and came across this from Bucky Brooks. He's not saying anything different from what most here think but at the end he compares him to Junior Galette of the Saints. So once again we have to consider Saints draft history and how that relates to our new GM evaluating players. Size wise they are similar but Galette ran a 4.86 forty, Ray supposedly will run 4.5-4.6.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/0ap300...rison-Shane-Ray
Some of what I've seen from Scherff makes me wonder if he'll handle elite speed off the edge in the NFL.
Why isn't Leonard Williams on this list? He's a top 5 player on any list I look at and we have zero difference makers on our defense right now. I have no reason to think to our new GM, who says he goes BPA, will be swayed by the fact we drafted two DTs last year. I don't think it matters if we're in 4-3 or 3-4 this guy can play. He's young yet people talk about him being a perennial Pro Bowl player. Or is the assumption that he'll be gone no matter what?
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/big-board
1. Leonard Williams, DT, 6-4, 290, Jr., Southern California: Strong, athletic and passionate, the Trojans star is earning comparisons to everyone from Houston Texans defensive end J.J. Watt to Tampa Bay Buccaneers defensive tackle Gerald McCoy for his ability to dominate the line of scrimmage while alternating between defensive tackle and defensive end. He's too quick for guards and too strong for tackles, wreaking havoc along the line of scrimmage against the run and pass.
Williams and Gregory will be long gone by our pick,thats to bad they will be studs.
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Stinger, let me ask you this...if you could go back to 2004, who would you draft between these two...?
Jason babin or vince wilfork
GRADE
6.32
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6'2"
HEIGHT
339LBS.
WEIGHT
ANALYSIS
STRENGTHS Bends well for a big man and has ability to play with leverage. Space-eater who is able to maintain good positioning against double teams. Consistently gets his hands inside offensive linemen first. Controls, sees it and sheds to make tackles. Surprising ability to swat cut blocks and chase stretch plays laterally. Played a high percentage of Washington's defensive snaps. Has the strength and athleticism to dominate in the running game.
WEAKNESSES Despite girth and leverage potential, can be a little inconsistent at getting push off snap. Dominates lesser centers but doesn't seem to look nearly as dominant against more talented centers. Will quit on a play when he's blocked. Produced eye-catching sack numbers for his position in 2014, but much of it was against lesser competition. Must work to keep weight in check.
NFL COMPARISON Alameda Ta'amu
BOTTOM LINE With his thick frame and powerful upper body, Shelton has moments where he can dominate at the point of attack. He was forced to chase sideline to sideline due to the nature of Pac-12 offenses, but when he faced downhill competition like Stanford, he stepped up. Shelton is an above average interior pass rusher for a man his size thanks to his surprising athleticism. He is a fit in a two-gap scheme and could benefit from playing fewer snaps than he was forced to play at Washington.
GRADE
7.06
?
6'3"
HEIGHT
245LBS.
WEIGHT
ANALYSIS
STRENGTHS Explosive athlete in every sense. Has elite power for his size and explodes off the line like a coiled spring. Rushes passer with extreme passion and purpose. Has fast, violent hands with advanced understanding of how to use them. Tough and plays with bad intentions on each snap. Uses rip to get under linemen and out-leverage them. Played 4-3 defensive right end in base but rushed from three-technique in some sub-packages. Once he gets to blocker's edge, they struggle to recover and redirect. Rare ability to post inside leg and get his body turned sharply and quickly around it toward quarterback. Excellent change-of-direction talent. Has natural coordination of head fakes, footwork and hand usage in pass rush. Works hard to stand his ground against power. Has power in upper body and hips to punch and dispatch with tight ends against run. Rarely runs past the arc as a rusher and will fight to come back underneath if he gets on the high side. Was able to drop into space with no issues when asked.
WEAKNESSES Lacks ideal length as an outside rusher. At times was engulfed and glued to the bigger tackles he faced. Can get too focused on hand fighting if he doesn't win with hands early in pass rush. Will occasionally stunt himself out of a play, opening up running lane. If rushing from inside, must learn to set up teammates when running "T/E" (tackle first, end under) twists. Relies on arm-over inside and slap/rip outside -- needs more variety to pass rush.
NFL COMPARISON Chris Clemons
BOTTOM LINE It's hard to find many weaknesses for Ray. He pursues the quarterback and the ball like it's his last snap. An alpha male packaged in an explosive frame, Ray has the traits and skills to be a dominant pass rusher and potential Pro Bowler. He also has the athleticism and strength to play in any defensive front.
Here is one NFL persons view of both prospects. Neither one is a sure thing, but Ray has more upside for being a potential all pro type.
We could use different names for different examples to make our point but we need to look at what is our choice in front of us. Either one will turn out good players but at 7, I am looking for the star player of which I think Ray will be.
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I get your point, but Green Bay hasn't had a top 10 D in 4 year so ya. When they were good they had Raji opening things up for guys like Matthews.
Also GB moved Matthews to ILB last year because they couldn't stop the run without Raji.
I'm not saying I'm against Ray whatsoever, I just think Shelton is a legit difference maker who will make everyones job easier.
I disagree that you couldn't find an OLB in the 2nd. I loves me some Kikaha and think he's gonna be just as good if not better than Ray. Ray at this point like AZ said in another thread is pretty much a one trick pony. Now that one trick, his speed, is damn impressive, but can be neutralized, esp if there's no one that demands a double team and they can throw added attentiion his way. What iI like about Kikaha is his hand use which comes from his martial arts background. Justin Houston, the nfls leader in sacks also credits a lot of his success from working on martial arts techniques.
All that being said neither guy Ray or Shelton or really any of the defensive guys on the list would be the wrong choice.
ok hot shot, your going to pass a potential 15 sack year guy for a line eater? misguided
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Certainly not saying you're wrong, but a nose tackle is arguably just as important if not more.
Maybe not NT specifically, but you need someone on the line that demands a double team. San Fran had Justin Smith who consistently demands a double team. We dont have that Justin Smith, JJ Watt, or big bad NT.
I think a guy like Shelton would make a guy like Golden or Kikaha in the 2R really good.
But this is all arbitrary so we're all entitled to our opinions.
So who is the best player on GBs defense? Its Mathews not the nose tackle. You can get a fat guy in another round that will fill the spot but will not find the OLB except in the first round.
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McCourty is one of the best safties in the league, Moore is merely above average with the potential to be good. Staying with the same HC should further help his development.
So the drop off is somewhat big, but only because McCourty is so damn good.
Im not so sure this is true. Fox turned around Carolina and Denver in one year. Virginia McCaskey is pissed. Both she and Fox are not getting any younger. The Bears have the 10th most cap room. All those points lead me to believe that we'll be spending every penny available for a quick turnaround.
Virginia is a pissed off 92 year old that is tired of losing. I'm not so sure she and the rest of the McCaskeys can/want to wait a few years for this to work.
Besides bad drafting, paying large contracts to FAs has also got us in trouble. , McCorty is going to cost 10 million a year. It ain't happening.
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I want a hybrid D when it's all said and done. If we can line up one way and mutate to another, that would be exciting to watch and talk about.
I don't really care what they do,as long as there better. We now have coaches that are smart and flexible. They will add some parts and make do with the roster. It can only be a hybrid until they the guys for there system.
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I wanna see them try and make a play for McCourty, but if he gets too expensive/gets resigned then ya, Moore makes a ton of sense.
I said in another post that I'd like to see them fix the secondary in FA leaving them to focus on getting some bodies for the front 7 in the draft.
I like the idea of Moore, Gholson, and Culliver/Cox as all guys who are familiar with the staff.
I think they get a couple FAs, but they aren't going to load up on them. They will build threw the draft, this will take a couple years.
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The more i read, the more i am hoping, no praying, we draft danny shelton... mayock has compared him to wilfork and ngata and thinks he's the number 5 overall prospect... weighed in at 343 at senior bowl. All that and he rarely came out even though he was playing in an up tempo pac12... draft him at 7 then find a way to move up to pick the best free safety in the draft gerod holliman... I would love a draft with the first two picks being shelton and holliman!
Those two names wouldn't bother if that came true. I think the most important position in the 3/4 is OLB and if Shane Ray is there I want that to be the pick. If not Shelton would fill the second most important position. I hope some our players sucked because of bad coaching.
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Results stunk and he was in over his head, but he was probably one of the classier guys on the coaching staff and one of the few of the primary coaches whom the players really stood up for and seemingly played hard for. Wish him the best at Bama and hope he can learn from the disaster that happened in Chicago.
Nobody cares
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Im actually hoping we fix the secondary in FA so they can snag Sheltons other teammate Kikaha in the the 2nd. I'd be 100% OK with Shelton/Peters though if we didn't already address CB in FA.
I kind of shared a similar feeling when people brought up Suh, but really, Sutton was drafted late enough that he doesnt need to be locked into a starters spot, and Ratliff only has a year left (if that). Houston-Shelton-Ego with Rat and Sutton as rotational pieces/ depth sounds damn good to me,
You liked our young LBs last year and Veeren, that didnt turn out so well. The point is I hope they do a better judging talent than we do on here.
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When did we lose a 4th rounder? We traded this year's 5th with last year's to move up and snag Vereen in the 4th. We have the following picks this year (before compensatory picks):
1st Round - #7
2nd Round - #39
3rd Round - #71
4th Round - #103
5th Round - None
6th Round - #167
7th Round - #199
To me, we have to hit Homeruns with the first 4 picks.
I got the rounds mixed up thought it was a 4th
3-4 information
in Bearstalk
I hate to say it, but dont think SMC will probably be around. His ship has been out to sea and dont see it coming back. Sometimes high picks dont work out. I hope Im wrong.