Draft questions

[BearFan PHX]

Here's some excerpts from Turner's Draft Profile on NFL.com:

"A team would be wise to widen him out and allow him a better runway to ignite his burst and overwhelm tackles with his speed. He’s added 20 pounds since coming to Alabama, but he struggles at times to stack and shed run blockers or set a firm edge. Turner’s frame and game are much less developed than Will Anderson Jr.’s coming out of Alabama last year, so it could take time for him to make his mark as a starting 3-4 outside linebacker."

"Below-average anchor to prevent being displaced by force."

"NFL Comp: Brian Burns"
(who is an OLB edge player, who played for the Panthers, and got traded to the Giants, both teams are 3-4 base teams)

But then I did this research...

Dallas Turner          6'3" 247 pounds
Leonard Floyd        6'3" 240 pounds
Will Anderson         6'4" 243 pounds

All 3-4 OLBs

But ALSO

Montez Sweat        6'6" 262 pounds
Yannick Ngokuoe   6'2" 246 pounds

and now Im not sure whether Eberflus would like him, since Sweat and Ngokuoe are lighter than I thought they were.

hmmmm.

 

[Stinger226]

5 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

the converse argument would be that in nickel, you have even more need for a true run stopping DE, since youve swapped out a LB for a DB, sacrificing total muscle on the field for more speed.

thats why most nickel and dime (non prevent) have 4 man fronts. So theres two DEs for contain. Its also why DEs more often take the outside route tot he QB, so they can also play the run. Of course on 3rd down, its a free for all pass rush sometimes.

I just think Turner is better suited to a 3-4 front, even as he is the most talented pure pass rusher.

I'm not disagreeing that scheme  fit Turner is a better 3-4 prospect but he played the same spot in the Will Anderson played in the Alabama defense and was a 4-3 DE most of the time. I think he is the best pure pass rusher in the draft , the same as you.

As a pass rusher in nickel D , he's going to rush the passer more than he's going to be given containment.  Dallas runs a similar 4-3 D and Parsons plays DE in it and gets all pro consideration every year. I will grant you , now they move Parsons all over the place but his first 2 yrs was as a DE.

Parsons  is 6-3 247 almost identical to  Turner. 

Although containment matters in a Flus defense, why not not just get the best pass rusher in the draft?

Verse actually lost weight to go to the combine down from 262 to 254 to get better 40 times but playing weight was higher. He does fit the scheme better. 

[dawhizz]

There’s a lot of chatter in the Twitterverse about maybe taking a 3T over an edge in the first - that would probably be Byron Murphy at 9 or maybe a trade down for Newton. I don’t love it after spending two premium day two picks on DTs last year, but you can’t discount the value of a good 3T given the contracts we’ve seen for top DTs and the importance of 3T in the scheme. What say you? 

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, dawhizz said:

There’s a lot of chatter in the Twitterverse about maybe taking a 3T over an edge in the first - that would probably be Byron Murphy at 9 or maybe a trade down for Newton. I don’t love it after spending two premium day two picks on DTs last year, but you can’t discount the value of a good 3T given the contracts we’ve seen for top DTs and the importance of 3T in the scheme. What say you? 

A trade back would take us out of the Turner pick and maybe Verse, Murphy may be the best option on the board at that time.

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, dawhizz said:

There’s a lot of chatter in the Twitterverse about maybe taking a 3T over an edge in the first - that would probably be Byron Murphy at 9 or maybe a trade down for Newton. I don’t love it after spending two premium day two picks on DTs last year, but you can’t discount the value of a good 3T given the contracts we’ve seen for top DTs and the importance of 3T in the scheme. What say you? 

I'm with you.  Drafting a 3 tech tells me that Pickens and Dexter aren't it.  Dexter did outplay Carter the second half of the season.  We really need to see where his development goes, as year two should provide good growth in production.

[adam]

I don't think DT is in play at #9. It feels like it's going to come down to WR, OT, and Edge.

I doubt the Bears would waste a top 30 visit on Turner if they weren't considering him in the first.  To me, with Latu's medical history, and the lack of a top 30 visit, it is hard for me to see the Bears taking him without more in depth knowledge on his medicals. I think he is out.

[BearFan PHX]

1 minute ago, adam said:

I don't think DT is in play at #9. It feels like it's going to come down to WR, OT, and Edge.

I doubt the Bears would waste a top 30 visit on Turner if they weren't considering him in the first.  To me, with Latu's medical history, and the lack of a top 30 visit, it is hard for me to see the Bears taking him without more in depth knowledge on his medicals. I think he is out.

it looks that way, and in arguing that Turner is too small, I just proved above that he is the same size as Sweat and Ngokuoe too, so that idea of mine just failed.

 

[adam]

Just now, BearFan PHX said:

it looks that way, and in arguing that Turner is too small, I just proved above that he is the same size as Sweat and Ngokuoe too, so that idea of mine just failed.
 

I hadn't really looked into the physical traits too much, but they definitely prefer bigger dudes (Dexter, Sweat, Pickens, and even Edmunds).

[ASHKUM BEAR]

33 minutes ago, adam said:

I hadn't really looked into the physical traits too much, but they definitely prefer bigger dudes (Dexter, Sweat, Pickens, and even Edmunds).

That was why early on, I looked at Washington DE Bralen Trice who is a mid-late 2nd rd.  He doesn't have the bend, has size, and can hold the edge while able to put pressure on the QB.  If they want the nimble, Turner at 9 or even the kid from Penn St, Chop Robinson who can be had by moving down.   The question is would Odunze, Turner, or a OT at 9 be enough to get the Bears into contention.

[Stinger226]

51 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

That was why early on, I looked at Washington DE Bralen Trice who is a mid-late 2nd rd.  He doesn't have the bend, has size, and can hold the edge while able to put pressure on the QB.  If they want the nimble, Turner at 9 or even the kid from Penn St, Chop Robinson who can be had by moving down.   The question is would Odunze, Turner, or a OT at 9 be enough to get the Bears into contention.

I think all of these top 10 picks are a little off. Edge players are going to get more than one in the first 10 picks. History tells us  its  OTs and edge  that usually get picked high. Most don't have Bowers there either he could be top 10. 

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, adam said:

I hadn't really looked into the physical traits too much, but they definitely prefer bigger dudes (Dexter, Sweat, Pickens, and even Edmunds).

well Dexter and Pickens are tackles, but the ends arent as big as I thought.

Turner is 6' 3" 247 pounds

Ngokuoe is 6' 2" 246 pounds

So Eberflus doesnt mind that size, I wasnt right when i said he would.

I do think he needs DEs that can set an edge, and Im not sure that's Turner, but i cant rule him out on size like I thought I could because even Sweat is 6' 6" 262 pounds.

[killakrzydav]

Were Definitely drafting a WR, OT, or Edge. Turner is more OLB in a 3-4 than a 4-3 DE. Latu and Verse are 43 de's. It's much more likely that there isn't a WR left at 9 than there is that one falls to us. It's more likely that zero tackles are off the board than any WR being left at 9. There are 4 teams ahead of us that need a wr.

[BearFan PHX]

I feel like 4 QBs, the top 3 WRs and Joe Alt will be off the board when we get to pick #9.

At that point, there are a bunch of interesting names, but none truly stands out as a must have to me. Maybe the Bears warroom disagrees - theyve watched more tape on this next group than I ever will, so theyre probably right if they think that.

More likely though, to me at least, would be a trade down to somewhere between 11 and 18, and take one of the 1b list that includes a couple OTs, all 3 Edge players, WR Thomas, some 3Ts and our favorite Center JPJ.

Someone should want to trade up to 9 for Bowers, Nix, Penix or one of the DLs.

If any of the four I mentioned above do fall to 9, and it only takes ONE pick in the top 8 to make that happen, then we probably take them.

[killakrzydav]

Denver and Minnesota if they fall in love with either of the 3 remaining qbs. Other than that, they will take who drops IMO.  I don't see any team trading up for defense. Not in this draft. The first D player could be a cornerback around 12.  Taking an edge without a short trade down is foolish. If anybody can find odds on the amount of offensive players drafted in the first round bet the over.

[killakrzydav]

We should hope that Bowers, Turner, Olu, and Alt are there at nine and still trade to 12 or 13 then again to 17-18.  That's the sweet spot.

[killakrzydav]

Y'all need to watch Latu more.  Nice hips. No Diddy.

[Mongo3451]

45 minutes ago, killakrzydav said:

Y'all need to watch Latu more.  Nice hips. No Diddy.

Yeah, he's bendy.  Everyone's worried about his neck fusion.  Danielle Hunter had the same

[Stinger226]

I totally understand people listing a blue chip LT as a possible draft option and not saying it's a bad idea but I think Braxton has progressed enough to not make that an option. 

Braxton has finished 14 th and 19 th his first two years as a LT. His ceiling may only be top 12 LTs but that is great for a 5 th round pick. 

I think it is Poles flagship pick as a first year GM to show he knows what he's doing. I also think he will add to the OL room with pick 75 or 122. We have had several looks at Yale  tackle Kiran Amedgadjie.  That is the kind of pick he loves to draft. High upside athletic prospect. Most rankings have him going in the 80s 90s range. So it's possible to get at 75. 

I think a WR or Edge player has a bigger impact in year one than a rookie OT. 

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, killakrzydav said:

We should hope that Bowers, Turner, Olu, and Alt are there at nine and still trade to 12 or 13 then again to 17-18.  That's the sweet spot.

totally agree, although if Alt is there i might take him.

[killakrzydav]

There are so many tackles in this draft. 7 - 1st round ones and 3-4 more second round ones. I don’t think Alt is head and shoulders above any of them. I’m not even sure Alt is the best tackle. Olu probably is. There’s no guarantee that either would be better than Brax.

 I hear your point stingy. Our first pick needs to fill that massive hole at De with one of the top three DEs ideally with a trade down 7 spots collecting a second. 

[Mongo3451]

I'm more and more convincing myself that Poles will trade the nine.  There are many similar choices, talent wise, at 10-20.  An extra second or third could outweigh standing pat.

[killakrzydav]

I know its lying season but what he has said in multiple interviews he's looking to draft at nine.

[killakrzydav]

14-15 is the same quality prospect as 9. 20 isn't.

[jason]

Honestly, at this point if the Bears aren’t focusing 99.99% of the draft on protecting Williams and providing him with weapons, then it’s going to be the same thing for the third time in a row.

[Stinger226]

33 minutes ago, jason said:

Honestly, at this point if the Bears aren’t focusing 99.99% of the draft on protecting Williams and providing him with weapons, then it’s going to be the same thing for the third time in a row.

He drafted a OT at 10 last year plus added D J Moore plus Tyler Scott in  the draft. Signed Nate Davis at OG.  

What does the third year in a row thing mean?