Team notes

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

You seem to focus in on a specific player and if we don't get that player it's a bad draft. Clearly if we don't take Banks, you will have comments to make. Now if we don't get CJ, I expect the same.

I have wants to but I have many scenarios I would be happy with.  

Jeanty+

Judkins+

kJ+

Cam Skattebo+

Brashard Smith+

I also could see Jayden Blue as a late round take even with another RB, to use his speed in packages as a weapon 

 

I'm just not struck on one.

Im not stuck on one either.

Id LOVE to see Jeanty, but I worry about OT, maybe paired with Ersery

I like KJ and Skatebo too as my other choices. If we take Banks in the 1st for example.

I was just saying I think we need to take that back in the 2nd round. I dont think these guys are gonna make it to 3rd.

[Stinger226]

Just seen we're having a private workout with Banks, that could change our first round choice.

 

[BearFan PHX]

Its so funny. The media narratives go round and round and every day its a different player. But if you watch the film, you don't need to be a genius, you just see it. And then you're where the media will end up months later from the beginning?

[ASHKUM BEAR]

3 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Just seen we're having a private workout with Banks, that could change our first round choice.

 

Thanks for sharing.  These two sold me on so many guys.  Jeanty if there is a no brainer... unless Dallas offers a deal you cannot pass and I'd love that bc RB is deep. They hyped up Warren pretty good... and ill take their word.  As for OT, I still feel it is a need regardless of Thuney helping, it will also weaken his play if he has to help Jones.  

Trade 10  Dallas to 12 and 76:

*1-12. Banks LT

2-39 K Grant DT

2-41 K Johnson RB

3-72 J Sawyer DE

*3-76 H Fanning TE

[Stinger226]

20 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Thanks for sharing.  These two sold me on so many guys.  Jeanty if there is a no brainer... unless Dallas offers a deal you cannot pass and I'd love that bc RB is deep. They hyped up Warren pretty good... and ill take their word.  As for OT, I still feel it is a need regardless of Thuney helping, it will also weaken his play if he has to help Jones.  

Trade 10  Dallas to 12 and 76:

*1-12. Banks LT

2-39 K Grant DT

2-41 K Johnson RB

3-72 J Sawyer DE

*3-76 H Fanning TE

I would gladly take that draft. If Warren or Jeanty are there, it would enhance trade assets, especially if two teams want a player. My first choice would be to trade back no matter who is there. The more 10 to 50 players we can get the better. 76 is still a good spot especially for a RB or TE that could help our team.

These two make good points but lots of pro and con for Banks. You have to look at all opinions. I pay more attention to scouts and they are divided on where Banks goes. It's that division of opinion that causes me to question how good he might be. Great players usually have a consensus of opinion. 

My concern is not that Banks is better than Jones, it's is the difference enough to use #10? A lot of scouts think he will be playing OG eventually, the premise is do you want a good LT or a pro bowl LG? 

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Thanks for sharing.  These two sold me on so many guys.  Jeanty if there is a no brainer... unless Dallas offers a deal you cannot pass and I'd love that bc RB is deep. They hyped up Warren pretty good... and ill take their word.  As for OT, I still feel it is a need regardless of Thuney helping, it will also weaken his play if he has to help Jones.  

Trade 10  Dallas to 12 and 76:

*1-12. Banks LT

2-39 K Grant DT

2-41 K Johnson RB

3-72 J Sawyer DE

*3-76 H Fanning TE

Outstanding. This is basically my preferred draft, although i dont usually find a trade down, so id have to choose between Saywer and Fanning. I also oscillate on which DL it'll be in the 2nd. But this is the way.

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

My concern is not that Banks is better than Jones, it's is the difference enough to use #10? A lot of scouts think he will be playing OG eventually, the premise is do you want a good LT or a pro bowl LG? 

I think by the tape, Banks is a considerably better LT than Jones, and will grow. I dont think we will move him to OG. He would do well there too, but hes got the goods to play LT at a high level, so why move him inside?

[ASHKUM BEAR]

28 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

I think by the tape, Banks is a considerably better LT than Jones, and will grow. I dont think we will move him to OG. He would do well there too, but hes got the goods to play LT at a high level, so why move him inside?

I think a lot of writers made Banks a preferred guard at 6'4 and 33" arms. Then at the combine he measured 6'5 and 33.5" arms.  Let him compete with BJone and KArmedje, I want the cream to rise. 

[BearFan PHX]

17 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I think a lot of writers made Banks a preferred guard at 6'4 and 33" arms. Then at the combine he measured 6'5 and 33.5" arms.  Let him compete with BJone and KArmedje, I want the cream to rise. 

I know that he would make a great OG, but Im saying why consider that when he plays LT really well?

I mean, you could probably take any really good starting LT in the league, and put them at OG and theyd be even better because LT is harder, you have no help.

But why would that be any kind of negative on them playing LT? That they could be a better OG doesnt make them any less good as a LT than they are? Like saying Banks is a top notch LT, but he would be even better at basketball so we shouldnt draft him at LT?

And Im saying, my opinion, Banks is a really good LT right now, and has TONS of untapped potential. I think with Roushar's help, if he is dedicated, the sky's the limit for him. Hes good now, but he has traits to be even better if he polishes up. And he's young.

As to competing, yes. Whoever is the best player should start of course. If Banks is everything I say, and Jones shows up and kills everyone and dominates, then of course he is the starter. But Im saying I think that is less likely than Banks being that guy.

[AZ54]

4 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

 

My concern is not that Banks is better than Jones, it's is the difference enough to use #10? A lot of scouts think he will be playing OG eventually, the premise is do you want a good LT or a pro bowl LG? 

First off nobody wants a LT worse than Jones. That’s the minimum expectation.  This decision is not just Banks vs Jones.  If we think Banks floor is to be as good as Jones then we also don’t have to extend Jones’ contract.  The choice then is Banks + $5-7 mil.  That’s enough to get a decent starting safety. 

Where it gets tricky is what the team thinks of Kiran.  Can he get to that same floor this year or next?  Can he get to his ceiling which is higher than Banks?   

Toss in the injury recovery and how that affects the first four games.  At risk is giving up drafting a potential Pro Bowl player at another position.  We could go the insurance route with the thought to move Banks inside down the road.  You don’t always know how that will work.  I say that having just listened to Matt Miller talk about how upright Banks plays and the issues that will cause him if he moves to guard.

 Miller had some interesting things to say about Warren vs Loveland too so I’ll link it here in case anyone else wants to hear it.  
 

 

[BearFan PHX]

15 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

First off nobody wants a LT worse than Jones. That’s the minimum expectation.  This decision is not just Banks vs Jones.  If we think Banks floor is to be as good as Jones then we also don’t have to extend Jones’ contract.  The choice then is Banks + $5-7 mil.  That’s enough to get a decent starting safety. 

Where it gets tricky is what the team thinks of Kiran.  Can he get to that same floor this year or next?  Can he get to his ceiling which is higher than Banks?   

Toss in the injury recovery and how that affects the first four games.  At risk is giving up drafting a potential Pro Bowl player at another position.  We could go the insurance route with the thought to move Banks inside down the road.  You don’t always know how that will work.  I say that having just listened to Matt Miller talk about how upright Banks plays and the issues that will cause him if he moves to guard.

 Miller had some interesting things to say about Warren vs Loveland too so I’ll link it here in case anyone else wants to hear it.  
 

 

I think he was talking about Campbell playing upright, which is what I see too. around 2:35?

[ASHKUM BEAR]

A quick article for Banks.  Makes sense.

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-bears/why-kelvin-banks-might-be-the-bears-actual-pick-at-10/

 

[Stinger226]

9 hours ago, AZ54 said:

First off nobody wants a LT worse than Jones. That’s the minimum expectation.  This decision is not just Banks vs Jones.  If we think Banks floor is to be as good as Jones then we also don’t have to extend Jones’ contract.  The choice then is Banks + $5-7 mil.  That’s enough to get a decent starting safety. 

Where it gets tricky is what the team thinks of Kiran.  Can he get to that same floor this year or next?  Can he get to his ceiling which is higher than Banks?   

Toss in the injury recovery and how that affects the first four games.  At risk is giving up drafting a potential Pro Bowl player at another position.  We could go the insurance route with the thought to move Banks inside down the road.  You don’t always know how that will work.  I say that having just listened to Matt Miller talk about how upright Banks plays and the issues that will cause him if he moves to guard.

 Miller had some interesting things to say about Warren vs Loveland too so I’ll link it here in case anyone else wants to hear it.  
 

 

I like Matt Miller and always have followed him but he's not always right. Last year he had Maye rated ahead of Daniels in the QB rating and we know how that turned out. Daniela was the best rookie QB and Maye faulted early.

Banks may be our LT of the future but the bears will have to draft him at 10 for that to be considered. They just scheduled a workout with him in Texas, that at least is showing interest in him which may have the way for that to happen. 

Braxton did not get better in year 3 so that puts him on notice but it seems most people throw away the Kiran factor. We will look at this year 3 rd round pick and say he may end up being a starter. Kiran was a  third round pick.

The missing information is what the bear coaches think of both Braxton and Kiran. We will have more information one week from now when they make pick 10 .

[Stinger226]

17 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

A quick article for Banks.  Makes sense.

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-bears/why-kelvin-banks-might-be-the-bears-actual-pick-at-10/

 

I hope Banks doesn't get the Eric Lambert kiss of death. He wrong a lot if you follow him.

[Stinger226]

9 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I think he was talking about Campbell playing upright, which is what I see too. around 2:35?

 

9 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I think he was talking about Campbell playing upright, which is what I see too. around 2:35?

I use to subscribe to the Athletic but didn't renew it this year until yesterday when they offered me it back for 12 dollars for a year.

I've been going thru Bugler's draft guide, easily the most extensive done every year, and he also listed Banks being upright to much as one of his weaknesses. I'll try to post and copy his profile of Banks. It's in a PDF so I'm not sure how to do that. He thinks Banks is a good player but is one of the ones that things he will end up at guard in the NFL. He has him as the 4th T off the board and overall at 26. I'm going to have to go back and watch the Georgia game again, it illustrates weaknesses he has in his game. 

PHX did you notice that game as being a weak game for him?

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

I like Matt Miller and always have followed him but he's not always right. Last year he had Maye rated ahead of Daniels in the QB rating and we know how that turned out. Daniela was the best rookie QB and Maye faulted early.

Banks may be our LT of the future but the bears will have to draft him at 10 for that to be considered. They just scheduled a workout with him in Texas, that at least is showing interest in him which may have the way for that to happen. 

Braxton did not get better in year 3 so that puts him on notice but it seems most people throw away the Kiran factor. We will look at this year 3 rd round pick and say he may end up being a starter. Kiran was a  third round pick.

The missing information is what the bear coaches think of both Braxton and Kiran. We will have more information one week from now when they make pick 10 .

The reason I look for different opinions is precisely because nobody is always right.  No GM is always right.   

With regard to Warren/Loveland....I didn't think Colestan Loveland was all that good as a route runner.  Not that I thought he was bad, it's just something I now feel I need to go back and look at a bit closer.   That's not for 10, that's in case we trade back or he's there for us in the 2nd.  

Also it was interesting to hear Miller say that he had Rome as his #1 WR last year.  Definitely not a consensus opinion but one that matched Ryan Poles.  

-----------

By the way, I keep seeing on Youtube that Dan Roushar had a press conference, or maybe he had an interview, but I can't find it anywhere.   Does anyone know about that, or have a link?  

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

One interesting thing - you haven’t heard a lot in media around Banks. Are teams high on him and just trying to keep it low key? Big program - strong stats - main knock was they didn’t see growth in him this year like was expected.

Now the question is - was that due to injury or is there a work ethic issue or something else? Very well could have been he was playing 80 percent (which by the way was still at a pretty high level) and now that he’s healthy he is ready to take those next steps. 
 

With that said - I stick to my view - if I’m drafting a linemen at 10, I need to have a view that this is a high end starting LT. If you have that grade on them - draft them in a heart beat. If you have material questions and it’s oh well worse cause he’s a good guard. Guess what - trade back and just draft a good guard and get value. Don’t force your hand. 
 

As long as Banks pick is a - we think this guy is a dude at LT than do it. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

16 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Thanks for sharing.  These two sold me on so many guys.  Jeanty if there is a no brainer... unless Dallas offers a deal you cannot pass and I'd love that bc RB is deep. They hyped up Warren pretty good... and ill take their word.  As for OT, I still feel it is a need regardless of Thuney helping, it will also weaken his play if he has to help Jones.  

Trade 10  Dallas to 12 and 76:

*1-12. Banks LT

2-39 K Grant DT

2-41 K Johnson RB

3-72 J Sawyer DE

*3-76 H Fanning TE

This is an excellent draft. 

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

As long as Banks pick is a - we think this guy is a dude at LT than do it. 

absolutely. if he is just average, then picking him at 10 is a big mistake.

It comes down to player evaluation. I have my opinion, other poeple have theirs and Poles and our staff have theirs too. i wish I knew what it was, but we cant.

Everything I see on film tells me he is the best LT in this draft, and while he still has some work to do (no one is perfect) he looks like a day one starter to me with really high upside. Hes still young, and he doesnt seem lazy at all. One of his biggest knocks is that he is too aggressive and reaches to deliver his punch rather than waiting another half a beat. Thats the personality of a worker and not a lazy catcher type. That tells me he will want coaching and his heart is in it.

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

PHX did you notice that game as being a weak game for him?

Interesting you say that because DDP just posted that game with commentary by him and his dad (who was a big time coach who was offered multiple OL coaching positions in the NFL) - Ill watch it int he next couple of days and tell you what i saw?

[Mongo3451]

On a non football note:  Ben Johnson the out the first pitch at the Cubs game.  Did a good job...

[BearFan PHX]

OK so here is the TTNL breakdown of Kelvin Banks vs Georgia. Im only part way through it, but what Im seeing is SO good, I thought Id share it already.

Do yourself a favor and start it around 19:00 - it's all self serving hype BS before that. But they realyl do know OL play and you can really see how good Banks is. And he's only 20!

Anyway, I think you generally need to be a paying member to get the hidden link. I'll share this one as an example of how good their videos are I pay $10 a month to subscribe to them. GREAT pre draft film breakdowns, and great in season Bears breakdowns too.

Both Phil and his Dad have coached OL, and if you listen and compare to whatever experience on education you (or I) have in football, it all lines up. These guys know what they're talking about, and you get to see it with your own eyes as they make claims to see if you agree.

I will also admit that DDP is a blowhard. Im not following him because I want to be his friend or think hes an awesome guy. I only listen to his film analysis, and it's usually excellent.

But how can anyone look at this film and say Banks plays too high?

See if this link works for you guys without paying?
 

 

[Stinger226]

5 hours ago, AZ54 said:

The reason I look for different opinions is precisely because nobody is always right.  No GM is always right.   

With regard to Warren/Loveland....I didn't think Colestan Loveland was all that good as a route runner.  Not that I thought he was bad, it's just something I now feel I need to go back and look at a bit closer.   That's not for 10, that's in case we trade back or he's there for us in the 2nd.  

Also it was interesting to hear Miller say that he had Rome as his #1 WR last year.  Definitely not a consensus opinion but one that matched Ryan Poles.  

-----------

By the way, I keep seeing on Youtube that Dan Roushar had a press conference, or maybe he had an interview, but I can't find it anywhere.   Does anyone know about that, or have a link?  

 

They are all in the Bears you tube account. Just search Chicago bear's and it should Pop up 

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

OK so here is the TTNL breakdown of Kelvin Banks vs Georgia. Im only part way through it, but what Im seeing is SO good, I thought Id share it already.

Do yourself a favor and start it around 19:00 - it's all self serving hype BS before that. But they realyl do know OL play and you can really see how good Banks is. And he's only 20!

Anyway, I think you generally need to be a paying member to get the hidden link. I'll share this one as an example of how good their videos are I pay $10 a month to subscribe to them. GREAT pre draft film breakdowns, and great in season Bears breakdowns too.

Both Phil and his Dad have coached OL, and if you listen and compare to whatever experience on education you (or I) have in football, it all lines up. These guys know what they're talking about, and you get to see it with your own eyes as they make claims to see if you agree.

I will also admit that DDP is a blowhard. Im not following him because I want to be his friend or think hes an awesome guy. I only listen to his film analysis, and it's usually excellent.

But how can anyone look at this film and say Banks plays too high?

See if this link works for you guys without paying?
 

 

Very good video, most people  carrying water for Banks just shows his highlights, I like this video is realistic. 

I don't want people to have the wrong impression, if the bears designate him to be the best LT prospect in the draft, I have no problem if we take him. I think we are taking a LT prospect in our first 3 picks just don't think it will be at 10.

My reasoning as flawed as it may be is the bears will go DL with the first pick. Now the injection of Warren or Jeanty being there ( they might choose to go adding a weapon) adds to the scenario, it might not be OL.  

As you look at a player, I just don't read the people that like him but the ones that don't rate him as high. No one thinks he will be a bad player, it's just at what level can he be great. I think Membou will be the best OL to come out of this draft but I don't think he's a LT. 

The Georgia game has him going against 2 first round DEs in the game. That's a feather in his cap. 

 

[BearFan PHX]

22 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

Very good video, most people  carrying water for Banks just shows his highlights, I like this video is realistic. 

I don't want people to have the wrong impression, if the bears designate him to be the best LT prospect in the draft, I have no problem if we take him. I think we are taking a LT prospect in our first 3 picks just don't think it will be at 10.

My reasoning as flawed as it may be is the bears will go DL with the first pick. Now the injection of Warren or Jeanty being there ( they might choose to go adding a weapon) adds to the scenario, it might not be OL. 

...

The Georgia game has him going against 2 first round DEs in the game. That's a feather in his cap. 

 

I think that's all fair. If someone thinks Jeanty is a better choice for example, I can't say they're wrong. All I can say is that Banks is a hell of a LT prospect, and the film doesn't agree with the weird media narratives I've been reading.

I'm glad you watched it. You can see they really know what they're saying, and I've learned so much watching them over the years. And like i said, DDP has a huge ego and he is a total blowhard. When the tape is rolling, I love him, the rest of the time, it's like a WWE wrestler talking trash LOL

And like you said, when you see him against the great pass rushers, you really get to see it. He also shut down Will Anderson when he was a freshman. But moslty, i just see his pad level, his intelligence, his desire, his excellent feet and hips. He looks really good to me, and at 20 years old, he can still put some weight on and get coached up to be even better.

His ceiling is sky high I think, and his floor is capable. If we want a LT, he'd be my pick.